New for Bi-wire

[reeltrouble1]

OK so I have read the Bi-wire posts till my head hurts (and my wallet) still I think I need to do it. Running an Onk 787 to RT1000i mains, CSi400 center, FXi50 surrounds, want to wire the fronts and center (ok you cannot truly bi-wire the RT1000, but I want to run separate wires to the top and bottom posts) need to make 15-20 ft runs for the set up I have.

Saw some wires called Canare on e-bay anybody ever use these, did not see them in the posts so that made me wary to start, but besides the brands I looked up that are mentioned throughout the threads what do I know? Could start with monster? Would like to stay around 500.00 to begin with.

Any suggestions?

[mantis]

Never used Canare wire.What the hell give it a whirl and see how it sounds.
I used to own the rt1000's and I found that using Bi wires sounded better then just a single feed and leaving the jumpers in.
Wire is a big topic.Like everyone else,you have to take the plunge and see for yourself.

[F1nut]

I'm confused about your statement, "ok you cannot truly bi-wire the RT1000, but I want to run separate wires to the top and bottom posts." Bi-wire is running two wires (+/-) to the top posts and two wires (+/-) to the bottom posts and removing the jumpers. Splain yourself.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by F1nut
I'm confused about your statement, "ok you cannot truly bi-wire the RT1000, but I want to run separate wires to the top and bottom posts." Bi-wire is running two wires (+/-) to the top posts and two wires (+/-) to the bottom posts and removing the jumpers. Splain yourself.

I think he has been reading through all the arguments regarding bi-wiring a powered tower....

HBomb

[danger boy]

i still think you CAN biwire the rt1000i's. why not? I Monster biwired mine. and they sound really great now.

I also remember someone on here who biwired their speakers using IXOS biwire cables.. do a search on IXOS and see if you find the thread.

[reeltrouble1]

Thanks for your help an input. Yes DB I read all those posts about bi-wiring a powered tower, dont want to start that one again, but the knowledge of how it works was interesting. I am going to bi-wire my RT1000i mains and CSi400 center to start with.

Have to think about the Canare bi-wires since no one here seems to have used it. Like most its easy for me to obsess over these decisions. :confused: But thats half the fun of it.

Well its all good :D

[polkatese]

I used signalcable speaker bi-wires (www.signalcable.com), I would think this is either belden or canare based. You can call Frank at SignalCable and check with him who makes the speaker wire...

[BeginnersLuck]

Because you seem to already have made up your mind, I won't try to convince you otherwise...so I would recommend getting Transparent (the wall) speaker cable...It sounds great to me. The wall is 12 gauge wire and four 20 foot runs will cost about $360. Not a bad deal considering the quality of the product! Most local Tranparent dealers will let you try it out, and if your not happy with it, they will let you exchange it for something else.

-BL

[gacole2000]

IXOS is a great bang for the buck wire!

[burdette]

Originally posted by BeginnersLuck
four 20 foot runs will cost about $360. Not a bad deal considering the quality of the product!


Four dollars and fifty cents per foot for speaker wire??? Holy fucking shit. It better be made of pure gold, get my drink, and suck my dick for that kind of money. Absolutely beyond my ability to comprehend. Nothing personal, Beginner.. I know a lot of the guys who frequent this board would agree with you. I don't happen to.

At least you've got something tangible.. which would not be the case if you simply threw your money on the street.

[mantis]

Here's the bottom line.Yes you can bi wire them.Don't sweat it,alot of people will disagree with it but I say YES you can Bi wire the powered tower speakers.They sound better bi wired then not in my opnion.
If you have any questions reguarding this,Let me know.

[hoosier21]

"Here's the bottom line.. I say yes you can" - Mantis

1. Manual does not say you can

2. Ken Swagger says you can't (Polk customer service)

3. Most members of this forum agree you can't

But, I guess if Mantis says you can, you can.

[RuSsMaN]

DING! Fries are done!

[scottvamp]

All this $$$ for very little improvement - hate to ask what you are running for a "moniter"/ "DVD" with that set up. Which for the most part you have the same speakers as I. Bi-wire or NOT you simply move the bridge and use wire to jump from the top post to the bottom. Your throwing away your money. For about the some price you can buy the M282 and bi-amp the cs400. Reality!Ohhh, how we go in circles on this site.

[reeltrouble1]

But to cast and pull, dive, skim or troll. No matter the circles or rocks that have to get looked under. The point is that 13 or so of you have taken the time to give an opinion! Now how cool is that? Polk deserves a hand for just having this forum allowing for a coast to coast or country discussion.

I remember back in the 60's laying in bed with my new transistor radio, listening to Twist and Shout the first night it released. I thought how cool is this, that I have a radio I can take to bed and listen to that even has an Ear PLug. :lol: Ok enough memory lane, point is that technology has moved a long way since then, but you got to try it, so if someone wants to run cables a certain way and likes the way it sounds its up to them, it all about the quality of the sound to them. What my 24 yr old thinks sounds good can be different from what I think, we have different hearing ranges and tastes, but share the interest in the sound.

Since I am an old guy, I appreciate that sometimes things just cost to much for what you are getting. Some of these "entry level" systems like mine could hardly be called cheap by many folks. But since I like to listen to music and watch movies it is worth it to me, and I, like you, am willing to spend more to upgrade. But where? Ah now theres the crux, since I have not hit the jack pot end of the rainbow lottery yet.

As far as the can or cant bi-wire the tower thing I did not want to start but that does not matter now, since I have always been a bit of a smart-ass, tell me I cant and I am likely to say I can. Yes, I can buy so called bi-wires made in a factory and hook them up to my main speakers, now whether or not this is going to change the sound to something I like I really do not know, now that bi-amping, theres an idea!:cool:

Remember though I am still just a Polkie, albeit with a few bucks, but overall cheap. So when I do finally bi-wire/amp do I move the bass management to Large? Maybe daisy chain some 282 and go for 7.1 with bi-amp. How about a new DVD or CD changer the ones I have are just OK, could put some real money in these, but which ones?

So ding there goes the bell swallow the fries, take the cast, and thanks for the help and your opinions. I have learned a great deal from reading your posts and trying things, every once in a while I have gotten stuck with a "dog" product but most companies take returns.

[HBombToo]

I'll throw my 2c into the mix here... I'm with Burdette on this wire business. 12 guage to your 1000i's, remove the metal strap and make your own and your done on your mains.
Save your money on wire because with it you CAN do some really cool tweaking.
Bi-Amping your center is a great improvement and start you on your way down seperate alley. Get yourself a good amp and start playing power management. When you get the power to your speakers to where your happy look for a seperate DAC for your 2 channel and use your CD player as a transport only.

Just a few thoughts and yes your right on the mark with Polk providing a forum for these types of discussions. Just think we also fight like brothers and sisters and thats when it really gets cool! ;)

Hve fun and welcome to the Forum.

HBomb

[mantis]

hoosier21,
Fact-Ken has his rt2000's bi wired.Correct term or not,he has told me on the phone that this yields the best performance.He didn't call IT BI WIRING but this type of style of wiring is what he feels is the best way to wire the powered towers.
Yes the speakers are powered and all that stupid crap.Who really gives a crap, if it sounds better it sounds better.Terms are terms.Call it MANTIS WIRING and call it a day.Wanna be all about better sound quality,do it.
Do you own powered towers hoosier????

Russ,
Fries are done???? Whatever.....nice input.Do you own or ever owned Powered towers???I think not.No advice is worth reading from you here.NO experience......no respect.

scottvamp,
now your reply I can respect.The amount of money ones willing to spend on little or alot of Improvement....that needs to be decided by the one building the system.Altered advice...cool man.

HbombToo,
yeat another altered advice and I also respect it.

Wire............how much of it have you really taken the time to listen 2?How much of that time is really spend online reading others opnions???I can repect anyones opnion on wire if they take the time to learn and experience it.Most of you are money driven to make the choice if wire is worth it or not.Not many posts have I read that stated a wire shootout and one said "hey you know what???This more expensive wire doesn't sound any better then my Home Depot wire".You guys say"It costs alot and your wasting your money".
I do remember alot of you guys convincing yourselves that all amps sound the same.........then whats so Important about seperates????Stupid question??????Really..........

I say this.......do whatever you want with your systems.It makes no difference.You have to listen to it,not me,not any of these people in here.Add value where you feel is right,I think thats what it all comes down to right???Better speakers.......better amps......better sources..room acoustics......wire???You value what you value.I value all.

Not everyone has the same budget.Some have more and some have less.Everyone can build a nice system at any price.Thats why they make all levels of systems.Everyone can enjoy something nice at what they can afford.Entry level all the way up to extreme high end.
Getting better sound quality takes alot of money.How much money???Well that again is what needs to be decided on the will of the one.Performance usually gets better with better electronics.It's a no brainer.There are products on the market that perform close to higher end stuff that costs less,not not many,not many at all.Quality and higher prices go hand and hand.Do I like that???NO but that the real world.Personally I think the price of alot of electronics are way out there,but I know if I want to achive a level of performace I come to expect from my system,I need to lay out the cash.I have a budget like everyone else.Maybe not the same level but one nonetheless.

This is our hobby.:o

[TroyD]

RT1000i's can't be biwired. If you understand how a crossover works and how a crossover is biwired/biamped and why it is theoretically beneficial then you will understand why we say you can't do it. It's a fact, not open for debate.

As for using a high level connection to the powered sub using a biwire cable, sure, it very well may be the way to go...I'd suggest using a decent, albeit inexpensive wire first to see if it yields the improvements you are looing before dropping a huge wad on wires. Just my .02

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Owning them or not, does not change the *facts*. I didn't comment on how they sound.

Polk seems to recommend all their powered subs be hooked up via high (speaker) level connections, but the 1000 and 2000 cannot be 'biwired'. If you can't grasp the simple concept....no respect. Christ, YOU are the professional here, out of anyone that SHOULD know, I would think it would be you.

Cheers,
Russ

[reeltrouble1]

Very interesting, indeed. Still, when I bi-amp/wire do you generally set the speaker to small or large, or is this again a matter of choice dependent on the speaker being used?

Still be mostly objective about the whole thread I am going to begin with SVA 's advice to just jump the High/Low with some speaker cable. Bare wire? Banana Plugs? Spades? Heck one of the sites had something called a GECKO jumper that was 70.00 for this what 4 inch run, now figure the cost per foot for that!!:lol:

But with all that info out there it is only a matter of time till the whisper to do it ( upgrade) starts banging like a DRUM. I am fairly satisfied with the Onk for HT, and I do watch around four movies a week, but when listening to CD, now there is where I think I am really missing out, but I reference tunes I first heard in analog on my LP's. Anybody run two systems? One two channel for stereo, one 6-7.1 for HT?? Could go for the SACD/DVD-A, but that wont help with the CD collection I have.

Scott/Hbomb, if I did bi-amp the center with the M-282, what do you think would happen to the sound coming from the CSi I have? Then I still need to upgrade to some better wire. I am using HD now.

From the You Can Do It camp: you each make a logical statement as to why you feel you can bi-wire a power tower, seems like it is mostly about the sound with each of you, you like what you hear.

From the You Can't Do it camp: you each seem to believe strongly in calling things what they really are, and apparently this is not true Bi-wiring.

So in this new guys view you are all right. Now just wait till someone asks me if you can Bi-wire a powered tower? :D :p :) :confused:

[TroyD]

As to wether you can or can' biwire the RT1000i has nada to do with how it sounds, it's an impossibility. The theory behind it, briefly is that biwiring/biamping allows you to power the mids and the high independently of each other. The binding posts on the RT1000i do not correspond to a crossover. The sub input is merely a high level input.

The reason we 'beat the drum' is because to think otherwise is misinformation. Biwiring is a specific term with a specific purpose. It's one of the few things in this hobby that isn't subjective.

BDT

[polkatese]

Troy,
I read the manual (just out of curiosity) and yes, there is no reference whatsoever of the second binding posts' purpose, so, why the hell Polk put it there for? for look?

[reeltrouble1]

Good question there Troy. What the heck is that post there for? It seems that signals are passed to/through it with the jumper Polk supplies. Now gestalt on those little electrons. Can you see them? Going round and round.

Is anybody going to tell me about the bass management for bi-wire/bi-amp? Help

[TroyD]

It allows for a high level (speaker level) input to the sub as opposed to LFE.


BDT

[mantis]

So Troy since your on the subject,
How should one wire such a speaker?Can you explain the benefits of wiring one way to another?WOuld it be better to run LFE to the speaker or just use speaker wire and why?
I think everyone here could benefit from your response.

[reeltrouble1]

I took the jumpers off and tried some monster wire instead, did not really notice much difference, but that may be because I did notice that either way, I was getting very little sound from the low frequency/subwoofer. While lying next to the speaker had to turn the volume knob on back all the way up to hear any bass at all. Does this sound correct?

The speakers are set to large, I have a psw450 run from the lfe on my receiver at full range.

[polkatese]

Reeltrouble1, Bass Management according to outlaw Audio, cut and paste exercise, 'cause it's pretty much sum up the purpose also. This is in the context of their ICBM product....


Most of today's DVD-Audio players, and some of today's multi-channel SACD players, do not have bass management when you're playing DVD-Audio or SACD discs. (The players themselves may contain bass management menus, but this built in circuitry is probably effective only when you're listening to Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks.)

As a result, when you're listening to DVD-Audio or SACD discs, all of the speakers get a full-range signal, (with deep bass being sent to all speakers), and the separate ".1" bass track goes only to the subwoofer. Thus, the main speakers in the system may get more bass than they can handle. And in systems without a subwoofer, most of the bass will be thrown away, because it cannot be routed to the other speakers.

Bass management is the process of redirecting bass signals to the appropriate place in your system. Whether you have small satellite, bookshelf, or tower speakers your system is not running to its full potential without proper bass management. Small bookshelves and satellite speakers are not designed to play back low bass signals. Redirection of this low frequency energy to a dedicated subwoofer will not only prevent your speakers from being damaged but also allows the signal to be reproduced. Many bookshelf speakers begin to stop producing output between 60 and 100 Hz. Without bass management, signals below these frequencies are lost.

[HBombToo]

realtrouble I moved toward biamp of my 400 because I had a hell of a hard time with my front soundstage. Just seemed to me the 800's overwelmed the 400 and I would have to turn the volume up to compensate. After turning up the volume when loud passages would hit I would be knocked out of my chair and had a screaming wife yelling turn that DOWN!!! After I biamped and reset the levels with my spl it all settled down. No more trouble hearing the dialog at all and when the loud passages hit it was very pleasant because it didn't crush ya.

Just my experience.

HBomb

[danger boy]

i have biwire monster cables. i use both sets of binding posts on the back of the RT1000i's. when I have the jumpers off and I only plug in one set of the biwires to the top.. i only get highs. when i only plug the bottom wires in.. I only get lows.

I plug both of them in and it's a beautiful marriage of highs, mids and lows.. whether that's true biwiring or not. it does sound damn good to me.

ok. you can't biwire a RT1000 but you CAN biwire a RT800? do i have this right?

[TroyD]

Originally posted by mantis
So Troy since your on the subject,
How should one wire such a speaker?Can you explain the benefits of wiring one way to another?WOuld it be better to run LFE to the speaker or just use speaker wire and why?
I think everyone here could benefit from your response.

Dan, you can hook them up anyway you like. As to which is better, well, that's for the person listening to decide. It's subjective, unlike, biwiring which is not. If you don't understand the premise, which you apparently don't, I'm NOT going to explain it again.

It's sort of like this, do you connect your sub with the sub pre-out or do you run a high level connection to the sub and then from the sub out to the speakers (which is essentially what you are doing when you think you are biwiring the RT1000) as to which sounds better, that's for you to decide.

Yes, you can biwire the RT800i.

Troy

[reeltrouble1]

Hbomb,

Thanks man, going to have to give the bi-amp strong consideration, but if I go with one separate what next? More Separates:D Not having the degree of sound stage problem you had but just do not have that WOW factor!

Danger boy,

Like you said you like the way they sound wired top and bottom, how much bass are you getting out of the subs on the 1000's I do not seem to get much at all.

Watched HP chamber of secrets last night though and the 450 was rockin, more bass frequency than I remembered in the first!!

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by reeltrouble1
Hbomb,

but if I go with one separate what next? More Separates:D Not having the degree of sound stage problem you had but just do not have that WOW factor!



I guess its all about addiction and what direction you want to go but I will say this: " I'd rather have an addiction to this hobby than drugs!" but very similar in my case; however, beer is a really good mix. ;)

Ensure you have your speaker positioned correctly for good image. There have been many discussions on the forum regarding this then take a hard look at seperates. For me I like to make a change then I don't touch it for a while. Don't make to many at the same time or you will confuse the intent if ya catch my drift.

HBomb

[danger boy]

Originally posted by reeltrouble1
Hbomb,
Danger boy,

Like you said you like the way they sound wired top and bottom, how much bass are you getting out of the subs on the 1000's I do not seem to get much at all.

Watched HP chamber of secrets last night though and the 450 was rockin, more bass frequency than I remembered in the first!!

reeltrouble1,

I have real good bass from the 1000's. what do you have the bass on each speaker set too? I have mine at about 1 o'clock. did you check to see if the woofer is turned on? :rolleyes: it has an on/off switch on the back amp plate. do you have your 1000s set to large or small on your receiver? On my receiver... there isn't much difference between small and large setting. But traditionally the small setting will give you less bass... because it routes the bass to your sub.

crank the dial on the rear of the 1000 and see if the bass increases when you do that. but you should have plenty of bass out of those bad boys. :p

good luck.. and come back here and let us know the results.

[reeltrouble1]

Dangerboy,

I am getting very little bass from the 1000's, sure there is a little, but weak. I understand about the switches on the back and have set the speakers to large, they are powered up, to tell you the truth I really had not noticed this before, the 450 I have pushes good bass, so it was filling the room, one day I turned it off and wham very little bass coming from the 1000's. I have had them under a year. Thing is, it is unlikey that both of them would go out at the same time.

[bionicmushroom]

http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html

Just thought I'd share this...I know nothing about nothing. I thought it looked good and some of you may be interested.

[polkatese]

bionicmushroom, good reading! thanks

[danger boy]

reeltrouble1,
when you move the knob on the rear of each 1000 does the bass increase at all? is it possible that you have one of them wired out of phase? you might want to double check your connections on each speaker. if you accidently crossed the red and black wires.. that will cause a loss in bass. just my .02 worth

[reeltrouble1]

Thanks Bionic that was a read, seems the guy try's to give a balanced representation of bi-wiring. Both the pros and cons.
Thing is that it is about the music, not the individual pieces of equipment.

Dangerboy,

The crossing of the wires would have been just to easy of a fix, but thanks for the reminder. There is bass in these 1000's just not what I want. If I shut everything else down speaker wise and just go stereo there is bass coming from them. Guess I just got used to the 450 pumping out. The powered subs in the 1000's are just not that strong. After reading up on the subject I think I am going to bi-wire instead of bi-amp. Now which bi-wires? Got what I thought was a pretty good deal out of guy in Toronto but then found out the wires were the S-series, they have four conducters but not typically advertised as bi-wires. Have any opinion about them?
:confused:

[polkatese]

Originally posted by reeltrouble1
Now which bi-wires? Got what I thought was a pretty good deal out of guy in Toronto but then found out the wires were the S-series, they have four conducters but not typically advertised as bi-wires. Have any opinion about them?
:confused:

reeltrouble1,
Are you talking about this cable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3021349483&category=14966

if so, he uses this monster cable:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004Y2W1/102-6542148-2277729?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846&me=standard&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures

I bought some custom length from him last year, still uses them for the surround channels. It's actually very decent for the price. I have no complaint, the rest I used signalcable biwire. Haven't done any shootout between the two. He is also a good trader...

[danger boy]

Originally posted by reeltrouble1

Dangerboy,

The crossing of the wires would have been just to easy of a fix, but thanks for the reminder. There is bass in these 1000's just not what I want. If I shut everything else down speaker wise and just go stereo there is bass coming from them. Guess I just got used to the 450 pumping out. The powered subs in the 1000's are just not that strong. After reading up on the subject I think I am going to bi-wire instead of bi-amp. Now which bi-wires? Got what I thought was a pretty good deal out of guy in Toronto but then found out the wires were the S-series, they have four conducters but not typically advertised as bi-wires. Have any opinion about them?
:confused:

reeltrouble1,

are you trying to replace your 450 with the subs in the 1000's? if so.. they will not be able to match the 450. not even close. the 450 I think has a 12" woofer. while the 1000's have a 6.5" woofer. the sub was meant to be driven as a subwoofer, while the 1000's are meant to be used a fronts.

The 1000's should compliment the 450 in terms of LFE. not overpower or try to match it's bass response.

[PETERNG]

Hell, I gave it a try anyway; here is what I've done:

I have a pair of the RP-20P, the CS-1000P for the main and center. One of my relative works part time at BB, and for that reason I can order anything directly from MC in CA for 60% off of retail, good enough for me to justify the cost of the wire. I bi-wired the main with the M series MC speaker cable and also for the heck of doing the whole thing, I bi-wired the center speaker also. Now let take a look at the results:

Does the system sound better? Hell yes, does it justify for the cost of the speaker cable? for me, yes, for those who paid the full price, no, I don't think so and I can tell you this: save your money and replace the cheap speaker cable you got with the decent one, then replace the lousy jumper with a good short MC 10 gauge speaker cable between the high and low inputs, your speakers will sound as good as the bi-wired method, save you at least 50% of the cable costs.

Now when I bi-wire the bedroom system with the two RT-55i speakers, that system comes back to live, no question about it, sound 300% better than before.

For all the rear channel speakers, I used MC 10 gauge cable, these mondo cable really do a good job to compensate for the long distance, sound a whole lot better than those skinny cheap looking cable from RS.

Those THX MC cable for the sub are really rock too.

[reeltrouble1]

Originally posted by PETERNG


Does the system sound better? Hell yes, does it justify for the cost of the speaker cable? for me, yes, for those who paid the full price, no, I don't think so and I can tell you this: save your money and replace the cheap speaker cable you got with the decent one, then replace the lousy jumper with a good short MC 10 gauge speaker cable between the high and low inputs, your speakers will sound as good as the bi-wired method, save you at least 50% of the cable costs.



PETERNG,

I am a little confused by your response. Are you saying that based on cost for improvement of the musical sound bi-wire is not worth the effort? You said "Hell yes" that the system sounds better??? So if you can buy some used cables at say 40% of the original cost it would be worth it? If you just jumped the cable from the high to the low what type connection would you go with? Bare? Banana? Spade? What type of weld if you use a connector?

[F1nut]

reeltrouble,

This hobby is always a matter of opinion. That said, I'll take bi-wiring over single runs anytime and believe in buying the best the one can afford. Finding good deals on used wire is a great way to upgrade to better stuff than one could afford new.

IMO, for jumpers use spades and solder the joint. If your posts are gold plated, you should use gold plated spades.

[PETERNG]

Originally posted by reeltrouble1


PETERNG,

I am a little confused by your response. Are you saying that based on cost for improvement of the musical sound bi-wire is not worth the effort? You said "Hell yes" that the system sounds better??? So if you can buy some used cables at say 40% of the original cost it would be worth it? If you just jumped the cable from the high to the low what type connection would you go with? Bare? Banana? Spade? What type of weld if you use a connector?

Yes, I said in my situation because the RP-20P in not intended for bi-wire according to the mfg specs, but I go ahead and did it any way. As I said: may be for those who have to paid 100% retail cost of the high-end cable to do this upgrade need to justify for the cost of doing this. Would you willing to spend $300 for just a pair of MC M cable to do this? I don’t think so; I paid less than 40% of the retail cost so I think it's reasonable for me to do this. In your case, if you want to upgrade and don't want to spend a lot of money(your speaker was not designed for bi-wire, at least according to Polk), the best way to do this is to get a pair of MC F1 (as good as any others) and replace the jumper by a short MC 10 gauge cable, straight, no need for connector (spade or banana), just connect them through the hole and tighten the caps. If you want to go the bi-wire round, then try it, but I doubt that your system will sound any better.

I used MC banana gold connectors for all of my connections.

Good luck

[gacole2000]

F1

When you say "solder the joint" exactly what does this mean, and how do you do it? Should you use a certain solder?

Thanks- Greg

[RuSsMaN]

WBT 4% silver solder

[F1nut]

Greg,

It means, solder the wire to the connector, be it spade, banana, etc. I prefer Cardas Quad Eutectic solder. Start by stripping just enough insulation at the end of the wire to fit the length of the hole in the connector. Gently twist the exposed wire, insert into the connector, apply heat from a solder gun and apply solder. As soon as the solder flows (melts) remove heat. Do not move the soldered piece until it cools (matter of seconds), a good solder joint will look smooth and shiny.

[reeltrouble1]

F1nut,

Thanks for your explanation. Can you tell me why solder? How is this better than a cold weld? I just would like to know.

[gacole2000]

Yes, thank you F1. I have IXOS banana plugs and they are 2 screw set and DEEP. So you're saying that I should not worry about sticking them into the connector, simply solder as deep as my iron will allow? Further, where can you buy the solder you mentioned?

Thanks again- Greg

[F1nut]

I don't know much about cold welding other than it's done under high pressure. PS Audio uses cold welds and then solders it. Is it overkill? Maybe, but those guys wouldn't do it if they didn't think it had a benefit.

Greg, I'm not sure I follow your question. How deep are we talking? Can you post a pic (or link) of the IXOS banana in question? You can get the solder at, http://www.percyaudio.com/ or http://www.soniccraft.com/parts.htm. It isn't cheap, but it the best I've ever used.

[reeltrouble1]

Jeez, so much to learn!!! Maybe I was better off just having my head in the sand:D . I thought a cold weld was when you changed the shape of the metal by some type of crimping creating an an airtight bond.

Ok, well moving along. I see some MC component video cables that are strand wire and some other brands that are solid wire. Which type do you think is better for your component video lines?

[mantis]

My transparent components for sale in the fleamarket......

RG6 or RG59 or even BNC cable is the best way to send video..true 75ohm is needed with great shielding.......

Transparent got you covered and for less then half price......

[F1nut]

Ok, more info on the cold weld. It actually is done with so much pressure that it fuses the metals together. Why solder after that? Added insurance of the perfect joint, but none of that creates an airtight seal. The joint must be hermetically sealed to be truly airtight.
As for video cables, sorry not into that too much, but it looks like Dan has that shamelessly covered.......j/k....maybe.

[reeltrouble1]

I know this thread has gotten a little long, but earlier in it I was asking about the bass sound level from my RT1000 fronts. Now the Onk manual says that frequencies under 80hz are sent to the sub LFE when the speakers are set to small. I have them set to large.

My question is, With the fronts set to large does this mean that the ONK is sending the full freq. range to the fronts and the receivers factory setting lfe to the sub? Or in some way is part of the frequencies lower end not being sent to the fronts even though they are set to large?

I am using the ONK's preout subwoofer line level to the sub and have it plugged into the unfiltered line in. :rolleyes:

[Airplay355]

wel im bored and theres nothing to do so since we are on the subject i think ill bi-wire my rti100s and seee if it makes a difference, even though technically you can't or maybe you can. who knows lets try and see which one i like more. who cares if its not truly biwired but sounds better. and can i have some fries russ, im hungry.

[Airplay355]

well maybe not, i took a good look at my receiver and laughed at the thought of fitting two 12 guage wires in the back or that thing..... no way would that work so i had another idea i hooked them up to the LFE, i did everything right and still it sounded absolutely horrible. the bass was deep every now and then but only when i cranked it, both the amp in the tower and my receiver. that was one of the worst ideas i think i've ever had as far as stereos go. maybe its my receiver, it is a pretty big embarrassment in the 5 channel world. oh well, sry i couldnt help decide about the bi-wiring argumet haahaa

[Tour2ma]

Airplay,
You've got your own bi-wire thread going. Boredom is not a reason to jump in RT1’s thread when he has a fresh question on the table. This thread is long past its original bi-wire discussion.

RT1,
Not gospel here, but I’ll put out my understanding for a check by those that know the answer to your question for sure.

First, “speakers to large” does mean that the full signal is sent to them. I am sure of this. As for the signal to the sub, I believe that the AVR’s crossover is still filtering out frequencies above set point.

Second, I believe LFE does have additional information that is not in the output to any of the other speakers regardless of their large/ small setting.

Let’s see how I did and we’ll learn together.

[Tour2ma]

RT1,
Turns out I was pretty close in my understanding, although it turns out that with speakers set to large, the sub might only be left with the LFE signal.
See Doc's write-ups near the bottom here:
http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9510

[reeltrouble1]

Thanks Tour2,

After reading what the good Dr. Spec had to say I believe by going large on the Mains they get a full range of frequency and send the lower Hz to there powered sub at the filter point. The sub gets all the lfe since it is hooked to this preout and anything beneath 80 hz or less or maybe not ?????:rolleyes: :confused: :eek:


Was the lfe put in for those special movie effects only, does it work any differently when a regular cd is putting its stereo track through it.??

Should I move this to bass forum???

[HBombToo]

I cross at 60 for music. I like the sound of my Polks better but I really like the rumble of my subs for HT. I cross at 80 on HT.

1/2 Twin

[Tour2ma]

Way I read what Doc was saying is that the low freq info may or may not go to the sub depending on whwether or not the AVR has setting to route "LFE + Mains" to the sub.

And yes, this is turning into more of a bass discussion, so a move may be in order.

[Dr. Spec]

I heard my name, so I figured I'd chime in.

If you set the fronts to large, they get a full range L/R signal in that channel. If you also set the sub to yes, it gets the LFE channel (".1"), and also any low passed bass from any other speakers set to small.

There is sometimes an option available when you set your fronts to large. It's called "LFE+Mains". This function sends the subwoofer the LFE channel, plus duplicate low passed bass from the mains (even though they are set to large), and of course still any other low passed bass from surround channels set to small.

The "LFE+Mains" often results in too heavy bass, and can also cause the sub and the mains to intefere with each other acoustically depending on the subs location in the room. So use this with caution, if your AVR can do it.

This is the evergreen problem with powered towers. They have puny amps and small bass drivers and can't do bass as well as a sub, so the dilemma is how to run them - small, large, etc.

If I had powered towers, I'd run them on small with a filter point of 60 Hz. They would still see significant bass below that point, but would not be overwhelmed with a true full range signal that they cannot hope to properly reproduce at the higher volumes common to HT.

Doc

[reeltrouble1]

Thanks to all who have responded. It has been a learning experience for me, but I understand the bi-wiring and crossover/filter with the powered tower much more thoroughly than when this thread started.

Onkyo says the 787 sends 100 hz and below to the lfe when the fronts are set to small. Fronts set to large it sends 80hz and below to the lfe. This occurs only if you set the subwoofer to yes. If you set the subwoofer to none/no then the full range is sent to the fronts.

I am going to set to small. The polk sub calculator suggests two 450 for the size of my room. CC is closing them out for 250.00 on clearance, so I have bass thread started for opinions/comments on this.

Doc, your explanation is clear to me, but I do not have the option to set the lfe to 60 at the receiver, but can at the sub, but then what would happen to the freq. between 60-100 if the fronts are set to small?

[Tour2ma]

Think Doc will say...

If you are using the sub's LFE input, which you should if it has one, you are bypassing the sub's crossover, so the setting does not matter.
If the sub does not have an LFE input. set the crossover to its highest setting to avoid double filtering the bass signal and let the AVR do the filtering.

[reeltrouble1]

Well guys, thanks for the help. I have hooked up another sub added some wires I got from Mantis and am pretty happy with things right now. Still needs a little tweaking, but at this point I am really thinking the only way I can make a big improvement is to move away from the two 450's and go with a sub that can go lower.

Everything in good time though. Still getting another 450 from CC for 250.00 new in the box to the door was a good move for me based on my room. :)