An important message from the Management

[raidersrule76]

I myself had gotten out of control at times as well. I have let a few members here get under my skin just the same as a few of the others here.

I agree with a lot of the suggestions that have been made.

1. The time limit on being a member before you are able to sell makes sense to me.

2. More moderators might be needed and again not to say that Mark and Patrick are not doing a good job they just need a little help.

3. Figure out a way to stop the spam would be nice but it does get tossed out rather quickly.


Wish I had a little more imput but that about all I got for now.

I really hope that the forum doesn't shut down because unlike most members here this is the ONLY audio forum that I belong to and I really do not want to have to start over somewhere else as I have made some friends here and have gotten a lot of advice that I would have had to go at it alone and made way to many mistakes in the process.

I have also met a couple of the members in person and would like to get a chance to meet some more and with out this forum I would find that impossible to do.


Mark

[treitz3]

Tom, give a good reason why Polk should give us the privilege of this forum?
For the same reason it has survived and prospered for so long. Friendship and a chance to move along in one's audio journey. Whether that be a question about a new Polk product or an existing one. The chance to meet folks that are in the same hobby. To talk and ask questions as to what would improve one's system from the folks who have been there and done that.

For Polk? I guess it would be for the marketing and knowledge base that exists here. With everything that Polk does to market their products, to shut down the forum would limit the feedback to said products. For instance, I currently have the IHT system. Without real feedback from real users in real situations? The "reviews" may not hold as much weight or may not be viewed at all due to no exposure.

So, to answer your question as to why Polk should give us the privilege of this forum? It may be to their own advantage, it may not. Who am I to know. I'm just thinking that the more exposure they have, the better off they will be.

What I do know is that this forum has many reasons to where folks join and stay. Those reasons vary from persona reasons to system reasons to friendship to basic camaraderie. 16 years alive and this forum has prospered? Who am I to say? That said, Let me put myself in my own place and tell you that honestly, I have no clue how to answer your question.

All I do know is that I appreciate the forum, the monies spent to keep it alive, the participation by all "paid" and not-paid members as well as the Corporate sponsorship shown in all of the Polkfest's. To throw all of that away at the expense of a few bad apples would be a complete shame.

[nooshinjohn]

On a selfish note... how the hell would I ever be able to upgrade the cross-overs on my SDA-SRS 2.3TL's and my LSi-15's without the knowlege found here?

[shawn474]

For the same reason it has survived and prospered for so long. Friendship and a chance to move along in one's audio journey. Whether that be a question about a new Polk product or an existing one. The chance to meet folks that are in the same hobby. To talk and ask questions as to what would improve one's system from the folks who have been there and done that.

For Polk? I guess it would be for the marketing and knowledge base that exists here. With everything that Polk does to market their products, to shut down the forum would limit the feedback to said products. For instance, I currently have the IHT system. Without real feedback from real users in real situations? The "reviews" may not hold as much weight or may not be viewed at all due to no exposure.

So, to answer your question as to why Polk should give us the privilege of this forum? It may be to their own advantage, it may not. Who am I to know. I'm just thinking that the more exposure they have, the better off they will be.

What I do know is that this forum has many reasons to where folks join and stay. Those reasons vary from persona reasons to system reasons to friendship to basic camaraderie. 16 years alive and this forum has prospered? Who am I to say? That said, Let me put myself in my own place and tell you that honestly, I have no clue how to answer your question.

All I do know is that I appreciate the forum, the monies spent to keep it alive, the participation by all "paid" and not-paid members as well as the Corporate sponsorship shown in all of the Polkfest's. To throw all of that away at the expense of a few bad apples would be a complete shame.


Agreed and I say that if any or all of those reasons are important enough to keep this forum around, we all need to heed Al's message and start acting right without having a mod having to tell us to do so.

[unc2701]

Some changes that would clean things up without killing the board:

1)Turn off responses in the clubhouse. Want to share a link? Great, post it, any further discussion can happen via PM. Got a random question? Post it, people reply via PM.

1a)Add a few more sections as needed to fill in common Clubhouse threads(computer stuff comes to mind).

2)Ban cable threads, except reviews (see below). These turn into instant crapfests.

3)People can post reviews, but you have to use the review tag and a review thread has responses turned off, but the original poster may edit. Got a followup question about someone's review? PM and they can add more info. Someone has additional experience? PM the poster and they can add your remarks. Have a different experience that the original poster doesn't agree with? Write your own review.

4)Bring down the ban hammer with zero tolerance- and both parties get it. Not fair? Too bad. If someone starts sh*t and you respond, you are at risk. ...but not permanent- make it a 3-5day ban.

5)Bring down the ban hammer for the political CJ's. There's a few posters here whose political to audio post ratio is abhorrent. (1) will kill most of this, but this will take care of the rest of it.

6)Multiple short bans lead to a permanent ban.

[disneyjoe7]

For the same reason it has survived and prospered for so long. Friendship and a chance to move along in one's audio journey. Whether that be a question about a new Polk product or an existing one. The chance to meet folks that are in the same hobby. To talk and ask questions as to what would improve one's system from the folks who have been there and done that.

For Polk? I guess it would be for the marketing and knowledge base that exists here. With everything that Polk does to market their products, to shut down the forum would limit the feedback to said products. For instance, I currently have the IHT system. Without real feedback from real users in real situations? The "reviews" may not hold as much weight or may not be viewed at all due to no exposure.

So, to answer your question as to why Polk should give us the privilege of this forum? It may be to their own advantage, it may not. Who am I to know. I'm just thinking that the more exposure they have, the better off they will be.

What I do know is that this forum has many reasons to where folks join and stay. Those reasons vary from persona reasons to system reasons to friendship to basic camaraderie. 16 years alive and this forum has prospered? Who am I to say? That said, Let me put myself in my own place and tell you that honestly, I have no clue how to answer your question.

All I do know is that I appreciate the forum, the monies spent to keep it alive, the participation by all "paid" and not-paid members as well as the Corporate sponsorship shown in all of the Polkfest's. To throw all of that away at the expense of a few bad apples would be a complete shame.


Tom, I feel you hit a nail here, it seems Polk Audio takes offense of those threads of products in which we feel are worthless at best. I myself haven't really joined in those type of threads, but understand the passion of this hobby knowing something is on the low side of things.

"So, to answer your question as to why Polk should give us the privilege of this forum? It may be to their own advantage, it may not. Who am I to know. I'm just thinking that the more exposure they have, the better off they will be."

This is the reason I also run a forum for a product which I build, without a forum where could users post questions of a product which is unique in the wild www?

[AudioGenics]

"..... within the next two weeks, the tone must change or I must force change. Do you want to be a part of this or do you want to exit? Those are the only choices. Maybe you have some concrete ideas. If so, I want to hear them now. If not, stay tuned. Change is coming.

Al

The manager accepts the status quo; the leader challenges it

count me in " to be a part of this ".... SUMMIT ?

....The greatest challenge for leaders is to know the difference between what has to be preserved and what needs to be changed......

[Knucklehead]

After all of the suggestions and opinions on the matter and change coming down the pipe, I really think what may happen is when a thread gets out of hand, members will be warned first then banned if the matter isnt resolved quickly. I think someone mentioned the 3 strike rule.......no matter what your standing in the community is. Just my .02.

[cfrizz]

Here's another question.......before you start bashing this member or that mod, ask yourself one thing before you start posting about what's wrong with this forum and what can fix it. What have you done for the greater good of this forum? Have you arranged PolkFest? Have you attened gatherings? Have you given up karma? Have you taken time out of your busy day to meet or help someone from the foum? Have you done ANYTHING besides sit behind a keyboard? I am not pointing out anyone in particular, I am just asking. We all need to look in the mirror and figure out that the root of this lies with the membership.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with obeying the rules or behaving in a polite curteous manner on this forum. Nor should ANYONE be given a free pass for their bad bahavior even if they have done any of these things.

Nobody should have to prove they are worthy to be on here by being disrespected or hazed by members who have been on here longer & somehow they think they have the right to do this.

Al already pointed out the main root of the problem, but no one wants to acknowledge it.

Until the rest of those on here stop trying to give free passes to those who they consider "special" for their wrong behavior nothing will change until Polk management has no choice but to close this forum down before it does irrepairable damage to their corporate image.

Personally, I hope they permanantly ban those members before that happens.

[Jetmaker737]

Good Lord people.. stop making this so complicated. The only reason why this forum is where its at now is because some members don't know when or how to STFU, and few measures are ever taken to encourage them to do so. You won't correct this by adding new circles, introducing orientation periods, or any other random band aide. You can correct it by moderating the site through trusted folks who are willing to volunteer their time to keep the ship that is Club Polk running smoothly. The rules are clear and solid, they just need enforced, thats all.

Thats it. It's that simple. The only real work involved is finding the right folks for the job and then determining a fair and fluid "behind the scenes" infrastructure.

Right on! It is that simple. Steveinaz also got it right in post #112. The offenders are very few in number. Once you decide to enforce the rules on them this place will clean up as people will think twice before posting something in anger.

[TroyD]

Wow, just WOW.

Hookay....I'm going to ad some thoughts here.

First of all, I LOVE this place. I've been here for more than a decade....half my adult life. I'm comfortable with saying that I've got about as much skin in this game as anyone else....and some of the garbage that's been going on truly embarrasses me.

Al, Mark, Russ and Patrick.....four guys I'd lay in front of a train for. Right out of the gate, what these guys have done and continue to do on a daily basis deserves our respect without having to qualify my remarks in any way.

Now, these are my thoughts....now, keep in mind, I'm not exempting myself from judgement here because I've been known to go scorched earth....

I really don't think we need 'more' moderation.....though, I think that getting Micah back into that role would be a good thing. He was outstanding at dealing with issues. The Hobbit Pimp RULES. I also think that making 'senior' members moderators is, generally, a BAD idea. I think that will only contribute to the problems.

Now, I'm a Senior NCO int he Air Force. There are some 'perks' that come along with that, however, I'm held to a higher standard of conduct than, say, an Airman Basic with 4 months in the military. I'm expected to set the example. Now, the Polk Forum isn't the military BUT there is a concept here that I think could apply......I think us 'senior' members need to get our collective **** together and hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct. Right now, I agree, I think that there are senior members who feel that this is there own personal playground and can do as they wish and the rest be damned. THAT is the main problem.

Trolls? C'mon, how frigging old are we and how long have we been on this forum. Trolls are a fact of life. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I've gone around with more than a few but I've done it for my own amusement, not under the guise of serving the 'greater good' in most cases (there are some notable exceptions....YOU know what they are, I know what they are....we don't need to argue the point). Trolls should be shown the door and folks that feed the trolls should be shown the door. Period.

Debate is ok. Spirited debate is ok. Arguing is ok.........we know what's not ok. The insults and so forth. I mean, c'mon. If you REALLY don't like someone....the IGNORE feature works wonders (except when someone quotes a damn post froms someone you are ignoring). Again, WE KNOW where the lines are....we just choose to ignore them most of the time. If it gets too heated, take it to PM or offline.

I really don't think that the wheel needs to be reinvented via the rules....we got rules. Enforce 'em. Swiftly and harshly. Start showing people the door and I assure you, change will be affected. Some of us will have to choose if we want to participate on the Polk Forum or not.

As far as applying the bans, I'd start out with, like, 3 days, then a week, then two weeks....and if you get banned a fourth time, well, you probably didn't learn your lesson and maybe don't need to come back. I also think that the ban should be between the Polk and the ban-ee. For me (and I doubt that I'm alone in this)...as I said, the mods here, I consider close friends.....I don't wish to be thrust in the middle of friends at odds.

Again, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. The changes just need to come in the form of enforcing what is already in place in terms of the rules. Let the moderators moderate.

BDT

Lastly, to my fellow 'senior' members.....I haven't jumped ship, sold out...etc etc etc....I love you guys and all that but there are some of us that are contributing to the problem and it needs to quit.

[lightman1]

Do I have to start talking about audio?......

[TroyD]

If you guys want an example of how a 'senior' member should act....Ken Swauger. The guy has forgotten more about audio than most of us will EVER know....always gets his point accross and NEVER has to act like an out of character dick.

No, some of you are just curmudgeons by nature....but, that said....

BDT

[Toolfan66]

I think all AL want's us to do is get back to the basics, Treat everyone with respect, share our journey not only in audio and video but life as well. use the basic tools we have been given us to fillter out the trouble makers.

all in all the fourm is just fine the way it is. it really comes down to common sense people "use it".

I for one want the fourm to stay and it will if we all just carry our selfs as we should.

Now lets get back to our regular programing and jam some tunes!!!:D



Peace..:cool:

[dkg999]

I wonder if Al and the Polk marketing team know how valuable having 16 yrs of social marketing experience is? The insight they have is something every major company trying to get closer to their customers and drive interactive marketing is looking for. That said, I don't think the trend on this forum as it grows in relation to the expansion of the Polk brand and product line is much different than what other companies experimenting with social marketing are starting to experience.

I agree with Troy's comments. If you think you just have to respond and set someone straight .......... don't. I'm not sure what drives some people to always have to respond when good sense would say otherwise ................ restraint is your friend.

[comfortablycurt]

Wow, just WOW.

Hookay....I'm going to ad some thoughts here.

First of all, I LOVE this place. I've been here for more than a decade....half my adult life. I'm comfortable with saying that I've got about as much skin in this game as anyone else....and some of the garbage that's been going on truly embarrasses me.

Al, Mark, Russ and Patrick.....four guys I'd lay in front of a train for. Right out of the gate, what these guys have done and continue to do on a daily basis deserves our respect without having to qualify my remarks in any way.

Now, these are my thoughts....now, keep in mind, I'm not exempting myself from judgement here because I've been known to go scorched earth....

I really don't think we need 'more' moderation.....though, I think that getting Micah back into that role would be a good thing. He was outstanding at dealing with issues. The Hobbit Pimp RULES. I also think that making 'senior' members moderators is, generally, a BAD idea. I think that will only contribute to the problems.

Now, I'm a Senior NCO int he Air Force. There are some 'perks' that come along with that, however, I'm held to a higher standard of conduct than, say, an Airman Basic with 4 months in the military. I'm expected to set the example. Now, the Polk Forum isn't the military BUT there is a concept here that I think could apply......I think us 'senior' members need to get our collective **** together and hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct. Right now, I agree, I think that there are senior members who feel that this is there own personal playground and can do as they wish and the rest be damned. THAT is the main problem.

Trolls? C'mon, how frigging old are we and how long have we been on this forum. Trolls are a fact of life. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I've gone around with more than a few but I've done it for my own amusement, not under the guise of serving the 'greater good' in most cases (there are some notable exceptions....YOU know what they are, I know what they are....we don't need to argue the point). Trolls should be shown the door and folks that feed the trolls should be shown the door. Period.

Debate is ok. Spirited debate is ok. Arguing is ok.........we know what's not ok. The insults and so forth. I mean, c'mon. If you REALLY don't like someone....the IGNORE feature works wonders (except when someone quotes a damn post froms someone you are ignoring). Again, WE KNOW where the lines are....we just choose to ignore them most of the time. If it gets too heated, take it to PM or offline.

I really don't think that the wheel needs to be reinvented via the rules....we got rules. Enforce 'em. Swiftly and harshly. Start showing people the door and I assure you, change will be affected. Some of us will have to choose if we want to participate on the Polk Forum or not.

As far as applying the bans, I'd start out with, like, 3 days, then a week, then two weeks....and if you get banned a fourth time, well, you probably didn't learn your lesson and maybe don't need to come back. I also think that the ban should be between the Polk and the ban-ee. For me (and I doubt that I'm alone in this)...as I said, the mods here, I consider close friends.....I don't wish to be thrust in the middle of friends at odds.

Again, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. The changes just need to come in the form of enforcing what is already in place in terms of the rules. Let the moderators moderate.

BDT

Lastly, to my fellow 'senior' members.....I haven't jumped ship, sold out...etc etc etc....I love you guys and all that but there are some of us that are contributing to the problem and it needs to quit.


I think that's all that really needs to be said on the subject.

Good post Troy.:)






That being said...I know that I haven't always been a perfect angel on this forum, but neither have most of us. I'll definitely be trying to conduct myself a little more kindly though from now on. I spend a lot of time on this forum, and have gotten tons of help, and made some great friends. I'd hate to lose the forum because we can't conduct ourselves like the adults that we(supposedly;)) are.

[seeclear]

Do I have to start talking about audio?......

Yeah, that would help. AND stay out of our bushes...;)

PLEASE don't shut down this forum. I'd actually have to WORK at work, and then I'd have all this money laying around, and I wouldn't know what to spend it on. Nobody wants that.

I think more moderators would help, so Mark doesn't have as great a burden, but also so that there are more personalities at play in making warning/ban decisions. Nothing against Mark, but he is a personality, and he will rub some folks the wrong way, and that will just make his job harder. I've read some of the stuff he has written, and just scratched my head, and then when I learned he was a mod, I was just more baffled. I think there must be stuff that goes on behind the scenes, by PM or whatever, that we aren't all privy to that leads to some of that and leaves me, for one, wondering. I don't know Mark personally, and I think if I did I would like him, but more minds working on the problems of whom to warn and whom to ban I don't think would be a bad thing.

Other random thoughts--maybe a way to set up the report feature so that is a certain number of members report a post or thread, it gets automatically deleted, perhaps with some weighting factor for longevity or post count (or maybe not?); something like 3 reports by established members of a thread started by someone with fewer than 10 posts, and poof it is gone. We could eliminate the cell phone sellers and CCV crap ourselves that way.

Anyone else notice this is coming up right before the Atrium karma is supposed to end? I think Mark wants to keep them all for himself.:D:D:D

j/k...I should just shut up. Guess I won't be winning that karma. ;)


Bottom line---Golden Rule, people.

I'm reading through this again before pushing "submit" and thinking I really don't want my post to sound like a Mark bashing session, maybe substitute "Mod" in there instead of Mark.

[Huck344]

I think people keep their tone civil in a Glock Forum --- because no one's ever used a Polk to kill someone with.

I threw an old polk driver across the room once and almost killed my wife's cat! Does that count?

In all seriousness, I really enjoy this forum and am grateful for everything that I have learned here. I hope that it continues on, because above all crap, etc, this place is such an awesome resource for great audio information!

[hearingimpared]

I would like to see Polk Audio enforce the standards of civility that they keep in their own working environment. That PA has not done so already reflects badly on the company, to the point that I am reluctant to recommend Polk speakers to my friends. The forum here is too much of an embarrassment. By comparison, check out Vinyl Engine (http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/index.php). I have yet to encounter a flame war going on there.

There is one big structural difference between Vinyl Engine and Club Polk: there is no New Posts button. The forum just displays its categories. I just go to the areas that I am interested in and provocative threads are not pushed in my face, daring me to click on them just to see what kind of foolishness they contain. So my advice to Al would be to get rid of the New Posts button. I'll bet that would have a calming effect.

Jim

I love the New Post feature and use it always. If you don't want to use the feature because of how you feel then I suggest you don't use it as that is not the problem here.:)

[tonyb]

I believe the majority of members think we need more mods, if not just for dealing with issues on a more timely basis. Since this is a corporate forum, owned and operated, then they need to keep it up like you would the corporate building. Invest in the forum and it will pay dividends, do nothing and neglect it,and the forum will go away. Not excusing the members responsibility here either to help with that task. All I'm sayin' is it would be nice to see Polk enforce rules on a timely basis. You are what the public perceives you to be. The average Joe who just bought a Polk product,joins the club because he's jazzed,walks in the door and see's nothing but arguements,cussing, name calling, does none of us any good. I'm guilty myself, but I can count on one hand in ten years the times I lost my cool. Human nature,it's gonna happen. What didn't happen though was a mod sending me a PM to tell me to cool it or I'd be taking a vacation. If that happened more often, alot of the problems would go away. Any way you slice it, this forum thrives on the behavior of it's members and polk audio and in my honest opinion,both have let the forum down. We both can do better.

[seeclear]

I believe the majority of members think we need more mods, if not just for dealing with issues on a more timely basis. Since this is a corporate forum, owned and operated, then they need to keep it up like you would the corporate building. Invest in the forum and it will pay dividends, do nothing and neglect it,and the forum will go away. Not excusing the members responsibility here either to help with that task. All I'm sayin' is it would be nice to see Polk enforce rules on a timely basis. You are what the public perceives you to be. The average Joe who just bought a Polk product,joins the club because he's jazzed,walks in the door and see's nothing but arguements,cussing, name calling, does none of us any good. I'm guilty myself, but I can count on one hand in ten years the times I lost my cool. Human nature,it's gonna happen. What didn't happen though was a mod sending me a PM to tell me to cool it or I'd be taking a vacation. If that happened more often, alot of the problems would go away. Any way you slice it, this forum thrives on the behavior of it's members and polk audio and in my honest opinion,both have let the forum down. We both can do better.

I agree with Tony here, too. A well sent PM to offenders would go a long way.

Also, to the powers that be at Polk corporate, I think that if you are focussing more of your marketing on internet sales, and transitioning away from traditional B&M outlets, that having this portal on the internet is very valuable, FWIW.

[disneyjoe7]

Why not make Polk employees Mods, I sure during there day someone could check in and do whatever is needed. If there where say 20 employee mods running around I don't think a bad thread, or spam would stick around long. :)

[Tony M]

I want to add my .02 but I'm too tired from reading all 9 pages of others comments and ideas. I agreed with a alot of them!
I also like this forum alot. Great people here! I like Polk audio speakers alot. I'd hate to have to talk about them on another site. Good night.

[hearingimpared]

I see where you're coming from, Shawn, but the key word is "assist." I foresee some new ground rules being set. Having another mod or two might actually help with carrying the burden Mark and Patrick already have.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier. Mark and Patrick have a lot on their plates besides being a mod. They can't be everywhere and read every post made. That is why I agree with adding a mod or two to help lift the burden off of those guys.

Shawn, I think it is the responsibility of any member mod or not to set the tone and example of how the forum flow is carried out for the sake of the new guys. We, you and I and other members who have been here for a while need to step up to the plate and set the example. Are we going to fail at that on occasion, ABSOLUTELY! As you said we all have human emotions and as I said I've let my fingers get way ahead of my brain and reacted rather than think about an issue. I've regretted letting my emotions get the best of me here at times but like you said it happens. I liked Al's thought about how and I'm parapharsing here, 10 goods don't get noticed, one bad is glaring. Which is going to be remembered? That too is human nature.:)

[hearingimpared]

I guess that therein lies the problem to me. Are more moderators going to miraculously cause anyone to change the way that they are acting? I don't think so at all. I think the big thing Al was getting at that people need to self moderate and abide by the rules. If not, consequences are set. There might be more rules coming; who knows? But unless they are enforced to everyone on the forum and everyone rspects the forum rules and the privilege to be a member here, I don't see much changing. Maybe more moderators could more efficiently enforce? Is that what you're getting at?

By the way, I am sure I have violated some of the forum rules in this thread so I will accept any punishment that mods see fit.

Shawn the problem as I see it is a lack of consistency in enforcing the rules. One day it is okay to say or do this the next day someone else does it and it is and offence and breaking said rule.

I believe the reason for this is because Mark & Patrick are overwhelmed with the huge populous of this forum and can't keep up. That's not saying in any way they are incompetent, there is just too much going on all the time for two guys who have other duties to perform to keep up. That being said, I say give them a break and some help. Russ apparently has things going on in his life that don't allow him to moderate on a consistent basis so it's all left up to Mark. Patrick I'm sure has other corporate duties and relys heavily on Mark's ability to juggle. That is a lot to ask from one guy in the midst of a thousand members.

I really think they need some help to relieve some of the pressure and response time necessary to keep the flow of this club in a relatively straight course.

[Toolfan66]

We are adults here moderate yourself and use common sense. Really how hard does it need to be. Do we really need more mods? I think Pat and Mark keeps things cleaned up aroud here, and I am sure this has been a learning curve for them as well. The only way to grow and learn in life is to make A few mistakes along the way.

[heiney9]

I say bring -justin- back to help ;).

[bruss]

KAB you must dictate how the forums will be used. Start handing out extended bans until your forum is representing your company in the light you desire. 100 pages of debating is all you will get with this approach.

[BottomFeeder]

Ok, I just read through all 10 pages of comments & reduce my recommendations to two points:

1. Get more publicly known moderators.
2. Arm the moderators with clear behavioral guidelines (& publicly post them as well).

Post script: As difficult as this is for everyone, in the end, I believe that this discussion will be good for us all.

[Serendipity]

This place needs structure, and cooperation from everyone.

[xcapri79]

This place needs structure, and cooperation from everyone.

Cooperation, respect and tolerance of differing points of view will maintain this as the best forum. Handle serious differences through respectful PM's. The moderators should be involved like the proverbial Maytag repairmen.

[hearingimpared]

Just to lighten things up . . . whewwwww I've just completed reading this entire thread and boy am I thoroughly exhusted.:D

On a serious note; it is really nice to see such a hot topic be civily discussed.:) There are prime examples in this thread how personalities can clash but is proof that it doesn't have to go down to street and gutter behavior.:)

Did I just say that?:D:eek:

[fatchowmein]

Please don't shut the Clubhouse down. It's taken too much work putting the Classical Music Exploration (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96421)thread together. ;)

Nice to see some of the names show up on this thread that I haven't see in awhile.

[Serendipity]

Just to lighten things up . . . whewwwww I've just completed reading this entire thread and boy am I thoroughly exhusted.:D


Same here. Been exhausted for the past few hours.

G'night guys :)

[xcapri79]

Please don't shut the Clubhouse down. It's taken too much work putting the Classical Music Exploration (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96421)thread together. ;)

Nice to see some of the names show up on this thread that I haven't see in awhile.

Classical music is the best! I've loved it for 40 years since playing it on my old tube HiFii set!
I got hooked on Strauss back then. Now my Polk LSi's are like audio heaven to me.

[fossy]

3. Get a few members help in moderating , doesn't have to be the same ones. Rotate it , ask the "sane" ones to help out. Give them restricted power to start out with; ability to lock a thread down , maybe a temporary ban etc etc. If they seem level headed after a few days or weeks , make them a full time moderator.Some ppl just let power go to their heads & end up making things worse.



2. This is a great forum. Just enforce the rules you have & it will get better.Wouldn't change a thing.



1.Treat everyone equally.


This is just a great place with so much knowledge amongst ALL the members. Never forget that you can learn something from every person.

A BIG thanks go out to everyone that is responsible for the forum.You guys/gals never get thanks enough for what you do. THANK YOU

[cnh]

Just FYI, no one is paid to moderate here aside from Patrick C.

I suspected as much. I'm only through half this thread so I may be back...but I assume the moderating IS AN unstated ECONOMIC issue that POLK has trouble addressing. That's not surprising, few companies are unbelievably solvent at this point.

So the suggestion of more modes...introduces a 'voluntary' dimension.

On other matters. Some people like to use the Ignore feature...I NEVER do or will...why...this has something to do with my profession, enough said.

When I first arrived on this site I had a bit over a year's worth of posts on another...where my task was mostly to be 'helpful' to total newbs.

Arriving here...it took 'time' to learn the ropes and there are ropes here...many of us 'follow these rules, try to police ourselves and do our absolute best to WELCOME any new member and make him or her feel accepted and at home. That is essential.

Do we put our foot in our mouths now and then...sure! Others have said the same. If I say something that starts to take off on its own, I try to soften and retract it ASAP!

I too, do not agree. The forum was MUCH worse when I first arrived! Or maybe I just learned to negotiate it better and be offended less...I'm not a youngster anymore and like many of you I am a Professional (I am a highly educated professional).

All that education does not entitle me to get into pissing matches with anyone and there are a lot of people here who know a lot MORE than I do about audio. Let me stop to give an example...I have a decent post count, have been here less than two years and I still consider myself a NEWB...when I have 7000 posts and have been here 4-5 years...I'll still think of myself in the same way....I think that's a good way to go about things here.

Essentially, I've made some friends here. I try my 'best' to help those who know less than I, and to learn from those who know more, and have a little fun here and there.

This is what it's all about and 'anyone' can do it! I've seen some nasty posts recently but nothing much worse than when I first arrived.

Since Polk, really, can't 'afford' to moderate this site 24/7 it is beholden to 'us' to behave! Poor Doro, above...I feel for you Mark....a lot of responsibility in addition to your real 'work'.

I think, as a community, we can clean this place up. I KNOW WE CAN!

cnh

[tonyb]

Don't worry about Mark,those assless chaps came with a price tag.:p:)

Now lets have a group hug,tilt one back,and crank the tunes....um...no reach arounds Joe, my wife is starting to wonder why my ass smells like shrimp scampi.:D

[danger boy]

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it!!

if only it were that easy for some people... unfortunately it's not that easy.

[danger boy]

3 strikes and you're out is silly.. most people laugh at a rule like that. that's to soft.

I say either one warning and you're out or zero tolerance. be firm and swift in dealing with trouble makers.

[brettw22]

I must have been away for 3 years because I've never known of Serendipity and I think he has something like 50 posts in this thread.......allow me to (belatedly) welcome you to the forum.......:D

The newbie and 'old timers' or 'inner circle' stuff will never go away......it's what people try to push when they feel slighted somehow even if that was never anyones intention on how they were responded to.

There seem to be a lot of people whose first reaction to reading something they don't agree with is a make a public whining event out of it. I almost get more bothered with the whining than I do the cause of their emotional deterioration. I don't come here to deal with 3yo's, but that's gotten to be how many people handle themselves. My issue here is the blatant overreaction that people have been allowed to get away with here when someone was making a joke, and not even a mean one, and they get lambasted because of it......that's not treating the newbie poorly.......it's just including them in the playful environment....(and yes, of course the 'degree' of the humor has a part to play in it).....but to throw the 'oldtimers hate newbies' flag every time is a bit overreaching...

While I understand the idea that bad press is bad press, from a consumer standpoint, I think it's weak at best to ever say something like 'I question my faith in Polks products because some meanie on their board said something to me.' I'm not excusing something negative being said, but it would seem that type of person was LOOKING for something to gripe about, so any little thing is what they'll cling onto.......

3 strikes is absolutely too much......this type of thread from Al has happened before, and it's happened again......that to me says that the gentle approach trying to encourage people to act their age isn't working.....time to clean house IMO.

[Norm Apter]

This one is easy... Add 3 or 4 new moderators. The only challenge at this point would be finding those who have a reputation of being even keeled, are not prone to emotional outbursts, have a clean track record, and so on and so forth.

I've only been here a little under two years, but three veterans spring to my mind immediately:

Reeltrouble
SteveinAz
dangerboy

Of course, I can only speak of the time I've been here, but during this period they seem to be extremely fair, maintained an interest in the wellbeing of the forum, and consistently stay above the fray of childish friction (even if they have strong opinions on things like tubes ;)). Also, I'm not even sure if any of them would want limited moderating duties but I think any or all would do a great job if CP chose to go that route and if they were so inclined.

[hearingimpared]

I've given my opinion about how I think to improve this situation. However I would like to address a few things that have been said. First off we don't want to make this a dry, lifeless, sterile environment. Keeping a sense of this being a club and a family like atmosphere is one of the great things that differentiates this forum for all the others.

Disabling threads in the Clubhouse after an initial post or link is posted kills the spirit of having a discussion and comraderie on the topic rendered. Zero tolerance would also kill this spirit especially taking into account that new folks may not know the flow or ropes of the forum and could easily be booted for a perceived inappropriate post. I've been here four years and many many people including myself have broken the rules in one manner or another. This place would be a ghost town if zero tolerance, one strike and your out applied.

I think Al bringing this to the suface AGAIN in the manner inwhich he's done it makes it very clear that we MUST clean up our acts and work together or we could loose the forum altogether. I really think this time people are going to stand up and take notice and do what's right.

Enforcement of the rules equally and consistently as well as adhering to them are absolutely necessary. The blame the "old timers" thing isn't quite fair in that they are indeed human and make mistakes but for the most part lead by example. It is the responsibility of all of us who know the ropes here to set that example, whether it be helping newbies, responding or not responding to trolls, stepping in to break up an argument or fight to diffuse it before it gets out of hand, being respectful in replies to posts, etc . . . this would help the IMHO overworked, overwhelmed mods, out immensely. Instead of having four eyes keeping watch, there would be many many more keeping things in line.

Don't be so fast to report a post! Take the initiative, explain to the offending person the rules and make clear what they did wrong. Reporting posts all the time just makes the mods have to do "investigations" which takes up more of their productive time and the investigations can be shown to be ineffective as to making a proper call because the what lead to the problem may be 20 posts up and can cast a person making a reply in the wrong light. That is not to mention it is sometimes hard to get the gist of what a poster is trying to relate without placing half a dozen smiley faces in their post.

As Al said, meeting a person face to face doesn't always equate to how their persona is perceived in a single post. That's not quite what he said but I'm throwing that out there.

To use Raife's method of analogies. There is a zero tolerance rule in my son's middle school. One day, he saw on school grounds what looked like a pen knife. Knowing that I collect pen knives, he grabbed it and put it in his pocket to bring home to me, not realizing the possible consequences of zero tolerance if he were to get caught with the one inch pen knife. He actually forgot about the fact that he had it and five minutes before the final bell rang, he shifted in his seat and the pen knife fell out and a student to the right of him saw it and reported it. He was first suspended from school for two weeks, after a school board hearing, dispite the lack of malice he was expelled, then arrested, finger printed, mug shot, and charged with two felony counts. Count one; carrying a concealed deadly weapon, Count two; carrying a concealed deadly weapon in a not weapon zone.

This is a 12 year old boy who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground who has never been in trouble before but has a propensity to pick things up off the ground that he finds as a "surpise of the day." We have to go to court this Wednesday with a public defender to face these serious charges. That could if found guilty affect the rest of his life for one stupid lapse of thought.

Sounds rediculous doesn't it? But it is true and just goes to show how zero tolerance can make things worse than what they are.

Sure we are all adults but zero tolerance just causes tension and a sense of distrust and unforgiving attitudes.

[george daniel]

THANK YOU! Everyone is always trying to find someone else to blame rather than taking responsibility for THEIR own behavior.

Use the ignore & report this post features more rather than the reply to this post button first.

Wow,, I just re-read your first paragraph,, you are right,,,pretty darn good advice--thanks. :cool:

[Fireman32]

I think alot of people brought up good points but Cathy said it best. We need to take responsibility for our own behavior.

[cfrizz]

Wow, just WOW.

Hookay....I'm going to ad some thoughts here.

First of all, I LOVE this place. I've been here for more than a decade....half my adult life. I'm comfortable with saying that I've got about as much skin in this game as anyone else....and some of the garbage that's been going on truly embarrasses me.

Al, Mark, Russ and Patrick.....four guys I'd lay in front of a train for. Right out of the gate, what these guys have done and continue to do on a daily basis deserves our respect without having to qualify my remarks in any way.

Now, these are my thoughts....now, keep in mind, I'm not exempting myself from judgement here because I've been known to go scorched earth....

I really don't think we need 'more' moderation.....though, I think that getting Micah back into that role would be a good thing. He was outstanding at dealing with issues. The Hobbit Pimp RULES. I also think that making 'senior' members moderators is, generally, a BAD idea. I think that will only contribute to the problems.

Now, I'm a Senior NCO int he Air Force. There are some 'perks' that come along with that, however, I'm held to a higher standard of conduct than, say, an Airman Basic with 4 months in the military. I'm expected to set the example. Now, the Polk Forum isn't the military BUT there is a concept here that I think could apply......I think us 'senior' members need to get our collective **** together and hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct. Right now, I agree, I think that there are senior members who feel that this is there own personal playground and can do as they wish and the rest be damned. THAT is the main problem.

Trolls? C'mon, how frigging old are we and how long have we been on this forum. Trolls are a fact of life. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I've gone around with more than a few but I've done it for my own amusement, not under the guise of serving the 'greater good' in most cases (there are some notable exceptions....YOU know what they are, I know what they are....we don't need to argue the point). Trolls should be shown the door and folks that feed the trolls should be shown the door. Period.

Debate is ok. Spirited debate is ok. Arguing is ok.........we know what's not ok. The insults and so forth. I mean, c'mon. If you REALLY don't like someone....the IGNORE feature works wonders (except when someone quotes a damn post froms someone you are ignoring). Again, WE KNOW where the lines are....we just choose to ignore them most of the time. If it gets too heated, take it to PM or offline.

I really don't think that the wheel needs to be reinvented via the rules....we got rules. Enforce 'em. Swiftly and harshly. Start showing people the door and I assure you, change will be affected. Some of us will have to choose if we want to participate on the Polk Forum or not.

As far as applying the bans, I'd start out with, like, 3 days, then a week, then two weeks....and if you get banned a fourth time, well, you probably didn't learn your lesson and maybe don't need to come back. I also think that the ban should be between the Polk and the ban-ee. For me (and I doubt that I'm alone in this)...as I said, the mods here, I consider close friends.....I don't wish to be thrust in the middle of friends at odds.

Again, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. The changes just need to come in the form of enforcing what is already in place in terms of the rules. Let the moderators moderate.

BDT

Lastly, to my fellow 'senior' members.....I haven't jumped ship, sold out...etc etc etc....I love you guys and all that but there are some of us that are contributing to the problem and it needs to quit.

And here you have it folks. The straight up TRUTH from a well liked, respected "old timer" who knows exactly what & WHO & where the problem lies & isn't afraid to say it.

Here is a MAN who knows how to take responsibility & most importantly act with the MATURITY of his AGE.

That a VP of management has to come on here to tell 20, 30, 40, 50,+ year old adults to stop acting like they are 16 years old is NOT something to be proud of, and should not have had to happen.

Well stated Troy, thank you for having the guts to state it so clearly. Hopefully those freinds of yours who are part of the problem won't give you too much grief for simply stating the truth.

[John30_30]

The "Ignore" feature is a tool provided by the management, which over the last couple of years has allowed me to peacefully co-exist here. That is my opinion, I could be wrong. I think more people should employ it.

It was do or die, as Al had just had a personal, face-to-face "discussion" with about 10 of us "old-timers" about this very problem, almost two years ago at PolkFest.

There are other features which can be programmed into certain forum software, like spam-marking (for mods and trusted power users) which removes the post and maybe leaves a message why, maybe not. That way, people don't even have to report spammers.

Enough posters having another poster on ignore can even trigger that person universally ignored as a troll, same as a ban.....again removing the responsibility from the mods to have to be the heavy.

Post-rating, not just a thumbs-up or down icon, but which affects the posts realtime visibility. That setting would be individually tweaked much like Ignore Feature, to each person's taste. Example: 5 Thumbs-downs can make a post disappear if the individual sets their limit to 5.
That sort of thing helps the community police itself (instead of the periodic Come-to-Jesus thread like this where everyone repents, gets all holy and saved for 2 weeks, then goes back to carousin') and takes time & pressure off mods.


And in summation, I would like to say "Don't taze me, bro!"

[disneyjoe7]

I'm sure there's something that could be done to prevent spammers from posting in vBulletin

[BAD ASP]

I've been here for a couple of years and my post count is low for a variety of reasons. Mostly that I am a father of 5 and went into business for myself at 54. A lot of things for me to deal with and enjoy but not a lot of time to become a forum expert.
What I do know is this. The reason I joined Club Polk is pretty simple. I did not know Polk from Kef, Infinity, JBL etc when I bought my first speakers. I went to a United Audio in theChicago area looking to buy my first set of "good" speakers and sat down in their audio room to audition speakers. I kept coming back to the Polks 3.1tls. I like the 1.2s and the 2.3's but my wife and I did not have a big enough space so I "settled" on them. That was in 1989 I believe. I have always preferred the sound of these over many others and have kept them and even added a number of other Polk flavors. I actively recommend them to all that ask. I have introduced many folks to the quality of the sda sound and noone has criticized the sound.
Now to the why of joining the club.... it was because I enjoyed reading the experiences of folks that listened to these speakers and SDA's had the same effect on them as on me on took the time to write about it. I enjoyed that over most anything. I also have enjoyed some minimal participation but have stayed out of the various frayes because its easy to just ignore and move on to things that interest me here. It would be a shame to lose this forum because of BS trollers or some folks lack of self restraint. The easiest thing to do on the internet is be a bully and a reactionary. The internet provides many the bully pulpit to push their own vitriol. Unfortunately it seems there is no way to avoid these folks on these forums. What I can encourage us all to do is not join in on the posts of those that look to harm us. If we collectively see a thread that seems to be going "south" just don't contribute. Police yourself. We SHOULD read the posts so that we can collectively identify the intruders and interlopers but just stay out of it... protect our investment in this club. I enjoy all of you and have come to trust your words to guide me through the quagmire of false advertising and hype. I am now enjoying the sound of a tube pre and SS amp for music. I would have never gone there if not for ya'll, and it does add enjoyment to my life. One of my favorite lines in the movie " We were Soldiers" is when Sam Elliot walks up to a wounded soldier, while their position is being overrun by the enemy, hands him a ready 45 and tells him to "defend yourself". Well folks the mods have handed us the proverbial 45 and told us to defend ourselves.... Just my 2c

[huggies]

I dont post much, but I've been around awhile and I read the forum daily. Here's the main things that I think need to be implemented:

1. The FleaMarket, 25 post rule is not working and actually adds to the forum problems. Newbies run up their post count with bs posts and other members respond with snide comments. Changing the requirement to a 3 month membership, or whatever is decided, would clear up a lot of trash on the forums.

2. I've been to several other forums where until your motivations for posting have been deemed honorable, your posts need to be approved via review. Might take a little more man hours, but it keeps the riff raff out from the get go.

3. Enforce the existing rules evenly on ALL, new and veteran members alike.

[disneyjoe7]

1. The FleaMarket, 25 post rule is not working and actually adds to the forum problems. Newbies run up their post count with bs posts and other members respond with snide comments. Changing the requirement to a 3 month membership, or whatever is decided, would clear up a lot of trash on the forums.





Best idea I've heard yet.

[amulford]

Oh brother...

I have to chew on this for awhile, but I must say this.

We are, for the most part, a community of adults. If you can't act the role, then suffer the consequences...

[vc69]

Wow... I'm pretty new and I gotta say I have had good experience here. I have "internet thick" skin though. Aside from one particular instance which was handled via PM, I have really enjoyed being a "part of" here.

Let's hope this place doesn't go the way of Dodo.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'm also in agreement on the time limit in the flea market. Make it a minimum post count and a minimum time limit, maybe at least a month.

That's not to help the flea market so much as to prevent new people from joining just to sell something, that right there is where alot of the fights start out.

[jimbo1421]

Wow... I'm pretty new and I gotta say I have had good experience here. I have "internet thick" skin though.

But this forum has been set up by Polk Audio to promote the sale, use and support of their products. I am sure that they do not want to limit their customer base to people with "internet thick" skins.

Jim

[MillerLiteScott]

I like this place and it is usually my goto forum whenever I get on the interwebs.

I have met a lot of exceptional people on/from this board and made many good friends. The availability of audio experience here is second to none. I have not had any issues personally on this board ( or any board for that matter ) and I usually just ignore the flaming threads. It is just the internet but I realize this reflects on Polk Audio the Manufacturer and if we as a group would like to support Polk Audio and this forum it is up to the members to act like adults.

I agree we need to have some level of moderation and the rules need to be implemented swiftly and fairly so issues can be nipped at the bud. The 25 post to sell stuff needs to be changed to be a higher number or a length of time to stop the newbees just signing up to sell stuff.

I would like to thank the Polk Audio, the many members that have helped me in my audio journey and I look forward to many more years of this comaradery. (sp)

MLS

Scott

[raidersrule76]

Ok I gotta add one more thing...... If it wasn't for this forum and all those here I would not be rockin out to my LSI 9's right now thinking could I have really found better for the price. I have to say that I love every single one of the sets of Polks that I have owned and I do know how some people on other audio forums have something against them.

[tommyboy]

I'm also in agreement on the time limit in the flea market. Make it a minimum post count and a minimum time limit, maybe at least a month.

That's not to help the flea market so much as to prevent new people from joining just to sell something, that right there is where alot of the fights start out.

Everyone has been saying this since I started here four years ago (and probably long before), and nothing has changed... Maybe this little debacle (that I somehow missed all of) will finally change their minds

I have to say though, someone putting //// for 25 posts and then try to sell something was kinda amusing;)

[disneyjoe7]

Have I stated I love this place?

[-justin-]

I say bring -justin- back to help ;).

LOL! No thanks! :D

~J

[comfortablycurt]

As others have mentioned(and I've personally mentioned numerous times in the past), if there's going to be any kind of a change in the FM rules, it can't reflect someones post count.

If you change it to a minimum of 100 posts to sell something, all we'll have is people making 100 junk posts to sell their stuff. Would it make a few people decide to go somewhere else? Yes, but not all of them.

The way I see it, if the FM rules are to be changed, it should be both a 25 post minimum, plus at least 3 months of membership.

That being said, I think the FM rules are absolutely fine in every single feasible way. When the people come in and spam it up to get to 25...most of us aren't going to buy from them anyway. They are either promptly taken care of by moderation, or their items get shown no interest, the for sale ad fades away, and they never come back anyway.


I honestly do not understand why so many people have so many issues with the flea market area here. I've had nothing but stellar experiences dealing there, and I don't think there's a single thing that needs to be changed about it.

[shack]

LOL! No thanks! :D

~J

You're smarter than I ever gave you credit for.

[Keiko]

Hi Justin! :)

[Lorthos]

So whats the "powers that be" think about all these suggestions?

[madmax]

We should have a "Big Meany" button that you push when someone is being mean, nasty or trying to badger or otherwise cause an argument. When it is pushed by 3 or more people it temperarily blanks out the statement until a moderator looks at it. If it was inappropriate the moderator will determine what to do to the author. If it was ok and the 3 or more people who pushed the button were trying to pull something over then they would receive a thrashing by the moderator.
madmax

[nooshinjohn]

Time to start beating people with wet noodles

[PSOVLSK]

I haven't waded through all 11 pages, but I'll add my 2 cents (even though it's not worth even that much).

1). Common sense would go a long way in solving some of the issues, but common sense isn't always very common.

2). People spamming it up to get to 25 post to sell something irritates me too, but is it really that hard to just not reply?

3). I enjoy the forum and spend too much time here so I'd like to see it hang around. Most of the "issues" don't really bother me anyway. I read the threads, shake my head in disbelief that people are getting so worked up over an internet argument, then go off to the Flea Market to see what's available:p

[pitdogg2]

Well i for one have had nothing but a very positive experience with the Polk forum. I have not been a member for very long and this is the only forum i belong to.The knowledge that i have been given by more than a few generous folks here is worth it's weight in gold. For this forum to be taken down to me seems like you are letting the bad apples(members) who likely joined just to start crap win. It also seems to me that as the years have rolled by i have noticed the same thing at other sites people sit at their keyboard and bully their way around different sites to just start trouble and see how much ruckus they can get away with until banned. Some people just live for it!:mad:

Besides i just bought 3 pairs of Polk speakers SDA 1 signatures and SDA2 b and last but not least a pair of monitor 5's now please do not close this until i can at least save enough money to buy some new drivers and get my Polk forum discount....Really the last bit is tongue in cheek the knowledge i have learned here and from the CS side of things is and will always be worth more than any discount. :p;)

Hopefully we can figure something out to keep this forum up and running I for one believe it is worth saving!!:D:D

[megasat16]

The solution is quite simple. People needs to learn to behave or depends on the mod to tell them to behave. Since mods are overwhelmed by the kids here, the easy solution is to limit how many posts a member can make daily for a period of time (like 6 months or so).

Let's say 10 posts limit for each category in the entire forum. If you have something useful to say, 10 post for a day is usually more than enough to most folks here.

And when people learn that they don't need to be Keyboard commandos and Internet Forum saviors, you can drop the post limit feature. It'll clean up a lot of Garbage on the forum and allow people to get up from their chair and think something useful for themselves.

And think about that they can even get more time to listen to some tunes too.

[comfortablycurt]

Time to start beating people with wet noodles



I've never quite understood this expression.


Would it actually hurt to be beaten with a wet noodle?:confused: I can't picture a wet spaghetti noodle inflicting too much damage.:p

Or is this some kind of uber-huge noodle that I've never heard of?

[concealer404]

I've never quite understood this expression.


Would it actually hurt to be beaten with a wet noodle?:confused: I can't picture a wet spaghetti noodle inflicting too much damage.:p

Or is this some kind of uber-huge noodle that I've never heard of?

Ever gotten smacked by a lasagna noodle? Scarred for life.

[comfortablycurt]

Ever gotten smacked by a lasagna noodle? Scarred for life.

Hmm...I never thought of lasagna noodles. That is a pretty decent sized noodle, so I could picture it packing a bit of a wallop...lol

[ALL212]

Ahhhh....great and honorable curt of comfortable has attained most honorable status of Polk Master. :)

Many bows and congratulations to come his way. :D

[steveinaz]

"All our base are belong to him"....LOL

[Lowell_M]

Ever gotten smacked by a lasagna noodle? Scarred for life.

Dry... yes... wet.. no. Still don't get it.

[hearingimpared]

LOL! No thanks! :D

~J

WAAAAAAAAAA that right there is down right funny, I don't care who you are.

But seriously it speaks volumes as to how hard our mods have it here with just two guys and Russ when he is able to help dealing with 1000 active members and umpteen thousand threads!!!

[concealer404]

Dry... yes... wet.. no. Still don't get it.

I think it's more of a psychological thing....

[Fongolio]

Ahhhh....great and honorable curt of comfortable has attained most honorable status of Polk Master. :)

Many bows and congratulations to come his way. :D

Just proves that post count mean NOTHING!!:rolleyes::p:)
But seriously Curt congrats. How are those Forum Posters Anonymous meetings going?

[RuSsMaN]

Ok, so does anyone who hasn't spoken thus far have anything constructive to add?

I'm not sure some of you guys understand. There is discussion of shutting down the Clubhouse. There is discussion of shutting down the Flea Market. There is discussion of shutting the board down as a WHOLE. Does anyone even realize the loss suffered already, the damage already done? I'm nauseated because of it.

The forum isn't a joke to a lot of people here, and Al was as serious as I've ever seen him be. I'm all for fun and yuks, but seriously, shouldn't this ONE thread stay on topic?

Quit re-hashing, quit campaigning, quit playing the blame game and pointing fingers. State your constructive ideas, or think of some new ones.

Thread open....

[wz2p7j]

Hey Russ - what the heck happened? Or are you just talking over time?

"Does anyone even realize the loss suffered already, the damage already done? I'm nauseated because of it."

Jeez - I'm bummed

Chris

[RuSsMaN]

If haven't noticed, you will soon enough. It's not something to elaborate on here, or anywhere for that matter. Let's get the train back on the track PLEASE.

[maximillian]

Since I love this place, here is my $0.02:

1) I have been here two years now. The great price of the Polk R50's (excellent loss leader idea - assuming that was intentional) got me started in audio and I have been hooked on Polk ever since. I hang out here and visit several times throughout the day. The reasons why:
- FM, half my Polk gear was purchased used. A good used market is a great thing since it enables people to try things out and, if they don't like it, they can resell and recoup a lot of their investment. So a vibrant used market allows for impulse buys and experimentation.
- Great knowledge. I have come a long way and still have miles to travel in the audio world. It's the knowledge that is shared here that helps me enjoy Polk and the audio world in general.
- generally bored and want to check the above two, reading old articles, or hang out in the clubhouse.

Seriously, you have a great way to keep people interested in your product and heighten Polk's name recognition. Although there is discussion of other brands, most of us enjoy Polk products and are advocates for Polk. You have basically a group of next-to-free sales and marketing force. Why would Polk ever want to give that up? From a marketing perspective this place is golden.

2) I agree, more mods. Perhaps make people be able to rate posts ala slashdot? Realize that moderators are people too, so you need to police the mods somehow.

I used to see more threads locked due to inappropriate behavior. I haven't seen this in a while... lack of mods maybe?

3) Cry babies and trolls are a fact of the Internet. You need a system to deal with them. I have seen some "heated" discussions I think most are tame compared to other forums. Although a few people have left Polk because of them, I am sure there are far more people that stay because this is an excellent forum overall.

As for "old-timers" sometimes being crass... sure that's not good. However, realize that sometimes I can see why someone would come down hard on a newbie that posts a sale on the 26th post. I have seen people cordially say why this behavior is bad. However, even these cordial people's patience can be test after the 20th time a newb does this, and so they can become irritable. Not nice, but it's understandable. That's where #4 comes into play.

4) FM 25 post count and time delay... easy, some people have already mentioned this... have a post minimum and a membership time-frame. Perhaps a minimum of 30 posts and 30 days membership. If someone then posts junk after 30 days then they can be reported and banned. They will have to wait 30 more days if they create a new account. At that point they will probably give up and go somewhere else.


I skimmed the 12 pages of replies in this thread, but I already knew what people would say... this is a wonderful place to hang out, and for the most part people are wonderful here. Not once was someone mean to me in the past 2 years as I was learning. Thank you for that. I also know not to overstep my bounds since I was/am a newb to the audio world. I love Polk products and part of that is this forum.

Fix the trouble spots that people have mentioned. You can also do other things people have mentioned in the past, for example, discounts and sales from time to time to loyal members (however you come to that definition). Discounts on Polk paraphernalia. Would love a better selection of Polk gear to show off how much I love the brand. 99.99% of us love Polk, that's why we are here.

[George Grand]

Derailing this thread, or in any way finding humor in it, is as immature as it gets. It also shows your real level of concern.

[Knucklehead]

There are plenty of rules and regulations as it is now, no reason why grown men and women cant follow a few simple rules. 99% of us are guilty of breaking one rule or another at some point here. Self moderation will go a long way in the betterment of this forum. No need for more mods or rules. I really think we can all make things work here if we try hard enough. I dont want this place to go away, that would suck big time. The last thing Polk wants to do is add more rules or Mods to the forum.

[dkg999]

Russ - how about taking a lead from other online forums where the social and for sale parts of the site are hidden and off-limits unless you meet specific criteria. The product and help related parts of the forum are public view. You could put a 6 month and 100 post criteria as criteria for posting in the for sale area. You could put a 6 month time criteria on being able to join the social areas, such as the Club House and Music/Movies areas. Worst case is you could charge $19.95 per year for the privledges of being able to join the non-public social and for sale areas of the forum, with a $19.95 credit given per year towards purchases of Polk Audio products off the site.

From an outsider looking in, I don't see much that is really troubling, with my base perspective being other forums for motorcycles, shooting sports, etc. that I participate in. From a manufacturer's supported forum perspective, maybe the threshold for problems is lower? Maybe being overly heavy-handed on the moderation is a good idea. It would certainly help provide incentive for the behavior bar to be much higher.

For those that want to talk among their own social group, why not make heavier use of the social groups function? It has worked well for the RAS.

[snow]

Ok, so does anyone who hasn't spoken thus far have anything constructive to add?

I'm not sure some of you guys understand. There is discussion of shutting down the Clubhouse. There is discussion of shutting down the Flea Market. There is discussion of shutting the board down as a WHOLE. Does anyone even realize the loss suffered already, the damage already done? I'm nauseated because of it.

The forum isn't a joke to a lot of people here, and Al was as serious as I've ever seen him be. I'm all for fun and yuks, but seriously, shouldn't this ONE thread stay on topic?

Quit re-hashing, quit campaigning, quit playing the blame game and pointing fingers. State your constructive ideas, or think of some new ones.

Thread open....Well the forum here isnt a joke to me either, I have come to love this place even with all it's shortcomings it is the best forum out there of it's type as far as im concerned. I really truly believe that to have any sort of long term change the rules whatever they will be when this is said and done need to be strictly enforced for all members.

I dont feel there is need to pull the plug on the show simply because people including myself at times were not capable or willing to act like adults, If rules are enforced people will fall into line or be banned simple as that it shouldndt take too many of those before we all realize Polk is serious about this.

And yes no doubt that this place as mentioned needs more mods if for no other reason then to keep the spam down. Just a thought here but maybe let new junior mods if you will lock threads delete spam and crap posts, and have the senior mods deal with the punishment of offenders.

Get rid of the IMHO senseless 25 posts rule for the FM area it only creates animosity amongst new comers and old timers. If you want create a seperate FM area for new comers and one for established members or simply as anywhere else use common sense when buying or selling to unknowns, most people wouldndt buy from a 0 feedback seller on Ebay why would they here? I have seen more than once where a new seller has offered to send the item he is selling to the established member at his cost and the established member send the money after he receives the item and is satisfied with it, The FM can work for all just use common sense.

Have someone keep an close eye on cable threads and other volatile subjects if things start to get out of hand shut it down.

This forum can flourish and grow if it is maintained properly by both member and staff. Closing this forum down serves no one Polk Audio or its members, fixing the problems both makes sense and serves everyone.



REGARDS SNOW

[pitdogg2]

4) FM 25 post count and time delay... easy, some people have already mentioned this... have a post minimum and a membership time-frame. Perhaps a minimum of 30 posts and 30 days membership. If someone then posts junk after 30 days then they can be reported and banned. They will have to wait 30 more days if they create a new account. At that point they will probably give up and go somewhere else.


I skimmed the 12 pages of replies in this thread, but I already knew what people would say... this is a wonderful place to hang out, and for the most part people are wonderful here. Not once was someone mean to me in the past 2 years as I was learning. Thank you for that. I also know not to overstep my bounds since I was/am a newb to the audio world. I love Polk products and part of that is this forum.

Fix the trouble spots that people have mentioned. You can also do other things people have mentioned in the past, for example, discounts and sales from time to time to loyal members (however you come to that definition). Discounts on Polk paraphernalia. Would love a better selection of Polk gear to show off how much I love the brand. 99.99% of us love Polk, that's why we are here.

I agree with all this right here. Although I never knew there was a minimum post count until this serious concern we are commenting on right now, but to be fair i was never here to sell. I came for the VAST knowledge and DEEP pools of talent I have found through reading post and commenting on what has helped me in the past. I for one being a newb would have no problem if it were to come that i could only make so many comments a day on this site if it were to help keep the trash talking or rude comments or whatever to a minimum. By the way I was pushed to the forum by a very friendly voice at costumer service one day when i called to ask questions about some parts for sale on Ebay that were suppose to upgrade cross-overs to some Polk speakers. Now do not get me wrong here I'm sure the parts i seen on the bay were an upgrade of some sort the friendly voice told me to join the forum and ask questions even walked me through the sign up and helped with posting my very first question. To say that the friendlies came out in force and sent me all kinds of links to every possible upgrade i would ever want to do was very informative. Quite of few even asked that i send some pictures as to what i had so they could be sure and even offered to help walk me through the upgrade.
I have seen other sites(forums) that were just so snotty that if you had to asked the question you had no business being on THEIR site and would let you know that under no terms were you ever going to get into their little click.
maybe i just don't look hard enough here but i never felt that at this forum for me it's all been positive.

[Lorthos]

Well the forum here isnt a joke to me either, I have come to love this place even with all it's shortcomings it is the best forum out there of it's type as far as im concerned. I really truly believe that to have any sort of long term change the rules whatever they will be when this is said and done need to be strictly enforced for all members.

I dont feel there is need to pull the plug on the show simply because people including myself at times were not capable or willing to act like adults, If rules are enforced people will fall into line or be banned simple as that it shouldndt take too many of those before we all realize Polk is serious about this.

And yes no doubt that this place as mentioned needs more mods if for no other reason then to keep the spam down. Just a thought here but maybe let new junior mods if you will lock threads delete spam and crap posts, and have the senior mods deal with the punishment of offenders.

Get rid of the IMHO senseless 25 posts rule for the FM area it only creates animosity amongst new comers and old timers. If you want create a seperate FM area for new comers and one for established members or simply as anywhere else use common sense when buying or selling to unknowns, most people wouldndt buy from a 0 feedback seller on Ebay why would they here? I have seen more than once where a new seller has offered to send the item he is selling to the established member at his cost and the established member send the money after he receives the item and is satisfied with it, The FM can work for all just use common sense.

Have someone keep an close eye on cable threads and other volatile subjects if things start to get out of hand shut it down.

This forum can flourish and grow if it is maintained properly by both member and staff. Closing this forum down serves no one Polk Audio or its members, fixing the problems both makes sense and serves everyone.



REGARDS SNOW

Great post, agree with everything you said!! I like the Junior Senior mod idea especially...I know quite a few of you have disagreed with the more mods idea but I really think this is the answer and best route to take.

[Rodeo0530]

I've stayed out of this because I don't think that I've been around long enough to say what should or should not happen, but I will say that I love coming here on a daily basis. I may not be able to contribute a wealth of knowledge because I'm very much a newb when it comes to home audio, but I have been able to learn a lot just because of CP. I think that there are a lot of GREAT people around here and I feel that I've made a few friends around here. I've opened up and exposed more about myself than I typically would to some of my actual friends because there are so many good people here. I would be sadly disappointed if CP no longer existed because of whatever reason you want to give for the recent problems. I don't feel that any of the suggestions matter if people just can't be civil to one another. I was guilty of it just the other day and I regret that I let someone get under my skin to the point of responding with a rude and inappropriate comment. That is very much not like me, but I said it anyways, probably because this is the internet. I think this forum helps Polk customers in so many ways, but it also helps to bring in more new customers. I think that we all need to be a little bit better in how we act and react and things will be just fine around here.

[Knucklehead]

Sorry guys I have to disagree....no more rules or Mods are needed. We dont need to be baby-sat, we just need to exercise self moderation. I belive thats what Polk is lookin for. Just my .02.

[Fongolio]

My apologies to all for my going off topic here. Especially to the moderators and Polk management. I posted a very long and I felt very worthwhile suggestion earlier (see post #154 on page 6) and it appeared to me that no new suggestions were forthcoming and felt no harm in lightening the mood a little. I was clearly out of line and wish to express my sincerest apologies here and now.

Kelvin

[Keiko]

Closing this forum down serves no one Polk Audio or its members, fixing the problems both makes sense and serves everyone.

It's up to everyone from this point on. This is thee best audio forum, anywhere. Members here in general are people of good character. As polkies, we all have a responsibility to this club and should be held accountable. Time to put up or....

[squeeb]

Dear Polk management:

First off, thank you for trying to get us back on track and cleaning up the forum.

We all need to realize this forum is our community but it is your brand. A brand you have worked very hard through the years to earn. You have every right and should protect the Polk brand at all costs. If someone says or does something on this forum, it could affect how someone else views Polk. Personally, I can’t imagine what someone would have to say that would make me never want to buy Polk again. But I understand why you must take it seriously.

However, I am also sure Polk realizes what this forum brings to your brand. You can’t buy or advertise enough to get the kind of loyalty found around here.

I want you to know I would not have purchased 14 Polk speakers in the last couple of years if it were not for this forum. All 14 were new or refurbs from Amazon or Polk eBay – all sales for Polk. I was originally going to buy Klipsch at Circuit City. That was where I was in my audio journey. I saw some Polk’s there (Monitors, I think). I had never heard of them and started doing some research online. Which led me to this forum. Heck, I used to think an SDA was something I could catch without using protection.

I probably looked without joining for 6 months – my parents always told me you learn more from listening than from talking. And that is when I found “Deals of the Day” among other helpful threads. That one thread has cost me (or saved me) hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

Here is another idea for you to take under advisement (sorry if it is a repost, I did not read, word for word, all 11 pages). Allow the OP to close their own thread. I asked a simple (I thought) question about power cables a few weeks ago and it took off like a wild fire. I had what I needed after the first two pages. If I would have had control over the thread I started, I would have just closed it. End of discussion and the moderator would not have had to close it 3 pages later.

We should be able to self-police a little better around here. I really don’t want to pay more for Polk speakers because you need more paid moderators for our forum.

Thanks for reading, thanks for your understanding, and thanks for making great speakers.

Squeeb

[Fongolio]

Here is another idea for you to take under advisement (sorry if it is a repost, I did not read, word for word, all 11 pages). Allow the OP to close their own thread. I asked a simple (I thought) question about power cables a few weeks ago and it took off like a wild fire. I had what I needed after the first two pages. If I would have had control over the thread I started, I would have just closed it. End of discussion and the moderator would not have had to close it 3 pages later. Squeeb

Now THAT is an excellent suggestion. Thanks Squeeb.

Kelvin

[Jstas]

It's not about the rules, people.

It's not about the Flea Market, people.

It's not about who's attitude is what, people.

It's not about moderators, people.

It's about YOUR attitude. Yeah, I'm pointing at you!

None of you can leave well enough alone. You don't like somebody, you find every reason you can to pick a fight, whether that person "deserved" it or not. You can't just ignore them and stay away from them. You have to yank the chain and rattle the cage. Then you all get flumoxed by the idea that the person you are taunting like a bunch of moronic 6th graders gets pissed off at you and lashes out. But that's his fault, right? Riiiiight. You all throw labels around. You snicker behind each others backs and service your own agendas. I've watched this happen. I've even reached out to those being tortured by this because I feel bad for them and I know what it's like to be on the receiving end.

We have people here who are disgustingly polite and non-combative. We have people here who are delightfully twisted in their sense of humor. We have people here who REALLY know their stuff. We have people here who seem miserable and combative. We have people here who seem self-serving and condescending. We have people here who can't seem to learn to spell. We have people here who don't even read The Clubhouse. We have all races, probably all religions and quite a few different countries. U.S.A., Canada, Germany, India, U.K., Mexico, Japan, Korea, China, Australia and a couple South American countries from what I can remember.

You know what the common thread is though? They are all PEOPLE!

None of you treat each other like people. You lash out and make comments that you would NEVER make in front of someone's face. You talk about a "family" atmosphere and it makes me laugh. A long while ago that was true. But if this place was what my family was like I'd probably have off'ed myself decades ago. And my family is pretty dysfunctional.

You all need to check yourselves. The funniest thing is that as soon as things get brought up that life is suck around here, the noble ones come out of the woodowork. They offer to be our saviors and to be moderators and pontificate on how they can handle the job...yet some of them aren't even out of college yet, hell, some are still in high school. And they want to moderate people that are 20, 30, hell 50 years older than them with twice as much life experience under their belt than the noble one's age? Get real!

Then there are the people who will sit here and tell us that they aren't the problem but they can show us who is. Look in a mirror, pal. You are just as much the problem as anyone else is. Then there are the ones who completely miss the point and tell everyone how to fix the problem but they have no clue what the problem is. How can you fix a problem that you don't understand?

You measure post count. It doesn't mean squat. We have people who haven't been here 2 full years yet are breaching 5K posts. Those people need something to occupy their time better. We have people screaming about others with 10K plus posts like that has ever been thrown in their faces. Sure, there are "veterans" here but you know what? Look at the post counts of some of the "veterans". It's got nuthin' to do with how many times you hit "submit". It has to do with how you carry yourself and your strength of character.

We talk about access to the Flea Market. You know what? When it first started, we didn't have these issues and the Flea Market was pretty self-cleansing and the shysters were rooted out pretty quick and dealt with. Now we go overboard with the "me too!" attitude and pile on to someone who might have just misunderstood the agreed upon policies.

We get mad when we talk about stuff that we think we know about. When someone who DOES know speaks up, we call them condescending and accuse them of having a superiority complex. We get mad when we make a poor life decision, post about it and everybody asks WTF dude? We put other users on ignore and then taunt them anyway which totally defeats the purpose of the ignore feature.

I know the average age of the forum is now down in the 20's but you'd think it was way lower with the way everybody acts towards each other. You all claim you have thick skin but the ones who shout that the most get in to the most squabbles. At the same time, having a self proclaimed "thick skin" doesn't mean you get to have a big mouth too.

You all seem to be able to peacefully co-exist with other mouth-breathers around you on a daily basis. Yet for some reason, when you get behind the keyboard all common sense, decency and respect goes out the window.

This is an imperfect medium for communication. Too much is missing like facial expressions, body language and tone of voice which we use to cue us in on the extra meanings behind our words. And these damn things: :):confused::eek::mad::rolleyes::cool:;):D:o:( don't help at all.

We all came here...well, most of us came here out of a desired to find kindred spirits. Not to "learn" specifically like others seem to have stated over and over again. We came here to talk shop. We are all here because many of us do not have others in our immediate vicinity who are as enthused about this hobby as we are. So we came here and found people to talk shop with. Why can we not seem to talk shop but would rather talk about everything else and bite each other's faces off?

This place is incredibly intolerant.

It's not Polk Audio. They aren't the problem. It's not the admins, they aren't the problem. It's not the forum, the forum is peachy just the way it is. It's not even the moderators, they have a suck job and I don't envy them. I've been there before myself and it's a thankless, punishing and abusive job. The problem is the moderated. You people suck and you treat each other like crap.

Wise up. Al said he's gonna shut this place down and you know what? That would suck. I've spent hours upon hours here answering tech questions, explaining how car systems work, designing subwoofer boxes and putting together posts with tutorials on how to do certain things. I could have built my own website with all the info and made my own community but I contributed here instead because I felt more of a connection here and that the info would be more appreciated here.

Hell, I've spent about 60 hours total installing systems in other member's cars because they needed help. I've come to Polkfests. I've visited members houses. I've bought about $6K worth of gear here from people in the FM. Best of all, I've met some really cool people and made some very good friends. The only reason I'm helping out with Polkfest this year is not because I care about these people who bag on me and try to bust me down every chance they get. I'm helping because my friend Lou told me he needed the help. So here I am. That is what this place is about for us. Sure Polk Audio gets to reap benefits but we get alot out of it too. Hell, we get to hob nob with corporate execs! I know many of them don't know and probably don't like me but they were still pleasant to me and my friend. They even fed us! How cool was that?

Yeah, this place isn't cool anymore because alot of people who get that don't hang around anymore and the numbers are dwindling. The people who do hang around report those people who get it because they are trying to drum in to your thick skulls that your attitudes suck.

There, I said what everyone else seems to have been trying to say without actually saying it and I did it in my signature way. The man said your fragile little world here is going to come crashing down around you. The time for "nice" has long since passed and now you need to hear what you need to hear. Don't bag on people like dorokusai and RuSsMaN because they are telling you. Suck it up and take it heart because they are telling you because YOU are the problem. So in a PG version of GG's signature way, "That statement will probably offend someone. They need to know ahead of time that I don't care."



Al, I'm not sure what Polk Audio can do here. Lotsa ideas have been suggested but none seem to hit the mark. In the end you gotta make a business decision. If this goes away, people will just have to deal with it. There are plenty of other message forums for them to go screw up elsewhere. As far as suggestions, I made mine. People need to suck it up, grow up and act like decent human beings.

[PSOVLSK]

Here is another idea for you to take under advisement (sorry if it is a repost, I did not read, word for word, all 11 pages). Allow the OP to close their own thread. I asked a simple (I thought) question about power cables a few weeks ago and it took off like a wild fire. I had what I needed after the first two pages. If I would have had control over the thread I started, I would have just closed it. End of discussion and the moderator would not have had to close it 3 pages later.

We should be able to self-police a little better around here. I really don’t want to pay more for Polk speakers because you need more paid moderators for our forum.



Squeeb

Couple of great suggestions squeeb

I also agree with you that I am a loyal Polk customer because of this forum.

[schwarcw]

Greetings and thanks for the opportunity to post some of my ideas here. I love the Polk Forum. I have made many friends here and I have learned a lot about audio. This Forum has been a great learning resource and I want to thank Polk for the opportunity to be a member.

I've read about 10 pages of posts so my ideas may have already been spoken.

The AK Forum doesn't seem to have as much of this. The Forum is moderated consistently, and bad behavior is just not tolerated. I'd say the Polk Forum needs more mods and consistent moderation.

To sell items, a $25 annual membership fee is charged to get to Barter town. This will keep out most of the trolls. Spammers and other for sale threads are shut down immediately. Members are warned, spammers are banned.

Maybe all newbie posts should be reviewed by a moderator until the content can be scrutinized.

[Fongolio]

Jstas, thank you.

[halenhoang]

Club Polk has been a great place to invest time into. Regardless of post count, tenure, moderation, the club has become like the wild west in a sense. I understand when one points out watching out for one another, but if you are watching out for one another should it not be private? Instead things are said and the snowball effect starts to accumulate. Its almost like "I need someone to say something in my favor so I could justify what I am wanting to do" mentality.
The power of ignore is a gifted feature, that so many fail to understand and use. Increasing moderators is not an answer in itself. I understand free will, but I also understand moderation on my part. I strongly believe that newcomers should have more room to learn. They are new to the place and they decide to participate in forums because there was something about the place that attracted them in the first place. Idea generation is a key concept that stimulates innovation.
Club Polk is considered a close knit family. In all honesty, who is this family? Is it rated on post count, agreement with others, time, or is it interaction with others? I have interacted with many other people here in person, yet, I am not family. So what is this family that people speak of? People close to headquarters? I have spent time reading the posts from the original poster, I see a different perspective from what I am reading.
There will be newcomers every day, face it, it is a fact. If people claim that they are members of a family here than those very people need to understand something. I believe without a doubt that the complaints are a direct result from this Polk family.
The answer to the problem is not more moderation or somehow the for sale and post count threads. The answer is the ability given to Club Polk members, tenured or not, the ability to not respond and ignore. I sense the problem is not a lack thereof Polk, but a lack thereof members. I feel that the OP is sending a message in a form of a question. Everyone that believes so strongly in this community needs to become a moderator. First by moderating yourself, use the ignore function, and guide by example. If you cannot do that, than have your Polk Family help you. Remember, you were once a newcomer with many questions, it's your experience as a newcomer that kept you here. I think the number one way to keep what we have going is for all members to become more helpful and less hateful in the manner of tribal attacks. If, as a member and you feel a part of this so called family, than do not further destroy what is left. If it is gone, than at least I will know how strong this so called Polk family thing is. Watch out for one another right? Do it. Oh one last thing, my ignore function is very powerful, I have selective reading beyond my ignore list.

[comfortablycurt]

Sorry if my posts got a touch off-topic earlier. I just always try to find the humor in a bad situation. It helps to lighten the mood a bit in my experience.:)


I think everyones thoughts on the topic have really been spoken, and the general consensus is that people need to simply start conducting themselves a bit better.

As many others have mentioned before, the way I've seen some people act on here before is atrocious. Some of the things that have been said here, nobody would say directly to someones face(I hope not anyway).

Don't take me wrong. I realize I haven't been perfect in my time here. Some of you flat out don't like me. I'm fine with that. I've had my share of arguments...incited my share of arguments and contributed plenty. I've received infractions too.

I try to avoid the arguments anymore. We all know the main topics here that always turn into arguments. Most of the time, there's no reason for them to take the direction that they do.

I'll do my part to avoid it in the future, as all of us hopefully will.

[jimbo1421]

Jstas, thank you.

times 2.

Jim

[danger boy]

ok this is getting way to long and way to heavy....

so i'm just going to sit this thread out.

let me know what you all decide.

Danger Boy
AL

[engtaz]

I dont post much, but I've been around awhile and I read the forum daily. Here's the main things that I think need to be implemented:

1. The FleaMarket, 25 post rule is not working and actually adds to the forum problems. Newbies run up their post count with bs posts and other members respond with snide comments. Changing the requirement to a 3 month membership, or whatever is decided, would clear up a lot of trash on the forums.

2. I've been to several other forums where until your motivations for posting have been deemed honorable, your posts need to be approved via review. Might take a little more man hours, but it keeps the riff raff out from the get go.

3. Enforce the existing rules evenly on ALL, new and veteran members alike.


I would like to see a newby flee market. That way buyers be warned and it will not polute the Club flee market.

[Knucklehead]

The Flea Market seems to be a hot topic here....My opinion.....who cares if someone has 25 useless posts, we are smart enough to realize that. Just flat out ignore the thread completely, once the person has 50 views and realizes nobody is biting he will get the point, argument averted.

[steveinaz]

What else is there to say?

Here's 3 steps to success:

1. There's a handful of problem people, ban them. (why punish many, over a few?)
2. Assign more moderators.
3. Act on problem people/posts more quickly.

[disneyjoe7]

What else is there to say?

Here's 3 steps to success:

1. There's a handful of problem people, ban them. (why punish many, over a few?)
2. Assign more moderators.
3. Act on problem people/posts more quickly.


4. Add a length of time for new members to start a thread in FM.
5. Place some Spam blocker for new members (Stopping robots from posting)



Problem's solved.

[steveinaz]

I have to say, I'm a little confused by all this. This forum is in far worse shape about 10-12 months ago--it's actually on an up-swing here lately. Sure, we had a blip with the recent ban, but other than that it's the typical banter that has been allowed to go on for a very long time.

How are we, the general membership, suppose to fix something that we have no control over? Trolls are NOT the problem. Spam is NOT the problem. Fly-by-night sellers are NOT the problem. The problem is a mere handful of people, ego's the size of Florida, allowed to do and say what they want, without punishment--it destroys the morale of the entire membership, and it chases off new people who are intimidated.

[concealer404]

I have to say, I'm a little confused by all this. This forum is in far worse shape about 10-12 months ago--it's actually on an up-swing here lately. Sure, we had a blip with the recent ban, but other than that it's the typical banter that has been allowed to go on for a very long time.

How are we, the general membership, suppose to fix something that we have no control over? Trolls are NOT the problem. Spam is NOT the problem. Fly-by-night sellers are NOT the problem. The problem is a mere handful of people, ego's the size of Florida, allowed to do and say what they want, without punishment--it destroys the morale of the entire membership, and it chases off new people who are intimidated.


Agreed. It was far worse when i joined. The cable debates often now are just that.... debates, not flame-fests. The sense of comraderie has grown. The things that everyone is doing for everyone else (karmas, picking up gear for others, etc etc etc) is something that isn't found anywhere else on the internet to this extent, and it's really been happening more and more lately.


Trolls are part of the problem. There's a few that are well-established. But i think that's who you're outlining for the most part with your second paragraph. As for what the general membership can do about it? Just ignore them. Just as big of a problem is the response that these people get from the "general membership."

The only hard part about that is trying to figure out where it's appropriate to ignore them. In some cases, ignoring them can do a large disservice to the question that the OP may have asked. If we can't ignore, then keep it civil, and let them do what they want, and just hope that they'll suffer the consequences i guess.

[Willow]

Polk's house; Polk's rules. Follow them= stay and have fun; don't= bye-bye.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

It's pretty sad that the VP of Marketing has to step in.

[shawn474]

I have to say, I'm a little confused by all this. This forum is in far worse shape about 10-12 months ago--it's actually on an up-swing here lately.

Steve, this stuff ebbs and flows as we all know. But, apparently from Al's post, he is fed up with it (better than the past or not). Which leads me to believe there aren't too many more incidences before this thing gets pulled permanently.



Polk's house; Polk's rules. Follow them= stay and have fun; don't= bye-bye.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

It's pretty sad that the VP of Marketing has to step in.

Agreed, i have had my fair share of posts in this thread and think I have made my point many times over (to the chagrin of some). Willow is right. If we can't respect the forum to follow a SIMPLE suggestion from the VP of marketing who has threatened to shut the forum down, then we don't deserve it. Say what you want, but the fact that many are offering up grandiose suggestions on how to change the forum and professing their love of the forum and all that it involves, yet are somehow not moved to moderate their own behavior is beyond me. Banning people for inappropriate behavior is all well and good, until it happens to one of your buds and then all hell breaks loose. Adding more mods is all well and good until one of them says something that doesn't sit well with 1 member - then again all hell breaks loose. Bottom line is, monitor your own behavior, respond in and post threads about things that interest you, that you are looking for help with, that you can help others, etc. Otherwise, have some self restraint not to.


I am sure you are all sick of listening to me by now so I am respectfully bowing out of this thread. Let Polk and Al do what they see fit. I support them either way and would understand. I just hope that the forum doesn't go away.

[disneyjoe7]

I have to say, I'm a little confused by all this. This forum is in far worse shape about 10-12 months ago--it's actually on an up-swing here lately. Sure, we had a blip with the recent ban, but other than that it's the typical banter that has been allowed to go on for a very long time.

How are we, the general membership, suppose to fix something that we have no control over? Trolls are NOT the problem. Spam is NOT the problem. Fly-by-night sellers are NOT the problem. The problem is a mere handful of people, ego's the size of Florida, allowed to do and say what they want, without punishment--it destroys the morale of the entire membership, and it chases off new people who are intimidated.

The problem is a mere handful of people, ego's the size of Florida, allowed to do and say what they want, without punishment--it destroys the morale of the entire membership, and it chases off new people who are intimidated.


Huh?


Spam to me is a problem has been for awhile now, I get here and see... Girls, Cell phones, Credit Card payments, etc. Why isn't not a problem and the fix is stupid like changing the oil easy. Agreed this isn't a big issue, but again an easy fix.

[DAGLJAM6]

The Forum belongs to all of us and, if you care one iota about it you ought to be working to save and protect it. I’m just like you in the quagmire. Except I have a responsibility to Polk Audio and I have the plug.

That statement should be the reality check we need to correct and set the course of this Forum from this point on. "If you care one iota about it you ought to be working to save and protect it" absolutely correct I find myself not
drawn to this Forum as much lately because of the B.S., as have others (yeah the ebb and flow is a factor as well) but I'm always re-energized when the group that gets together for the Polkfests. The core membership of this forum
is as diverse as the whole of its' membership and they get along at any and all functions I've attended over the years. The problem stems from a lack of discretion that the net fosters, going nuclear in a response is easier from a screen than in a direct face to face environment. That being the case just step back, take a break. The need to garner "brownie points" by being the last, loudest or rudest just isn't worth it in my opinion.

[steveinaz]

Trolls are only a problem for people who don't have capacity to IGNORE them, period.
Spam doesn't involve anyone on this board---it's unavoidable. I'm certain Al is not upset over spam.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around how we as common users, are suppose to "moderate" this forum?

[shawn474]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around how we as common users, are suppose to "moderate" this forum?

IMO, it's not a question of the users moderating the forum. I think it's more everyone taking accountability upon themselves to moderate their own behavior as it realtes to the forum and its rules.

[devani]

IMO, it's not a question of the users moderating the forum. I think it's more everyone taking accountability upon themselves to moderate their own behavior as it realtes to the forum and its rules.

sure didn't happen here....

[steveinaz]

Shawn, IT HAS TO BE--because lack of moderation is the PROBLEM. That, and the lack of enforcement of the rules that we've had for a very long time.

Niether of these can be controlled by the common users of this board.

There, I said it.

[shawn474]

sure didn't happen here....


Not sure what you are getting at here. Enlighten me, please.

[steveinaz]

How can anyone argue that if the existing rules were actually enforced, that there would be any problems? Give up on the "we'll do better Polk Audio, we promise we will" crap, because that isn't going to happen. You cannot control other peoples behavior at the "user" level.

Now, we can dance around the truth all week, but that is the truth--like it or not. Don't ask me to fix something that I have ZERO capacity to fix.

[DAGLJAM6]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around how we as common users, are suppose to "moderate" this forum?

Personally I don't think we can other than keeping ourselves in check, most other forums have significantly more moderators with the power to control the day to day posts, and do so (wouldn't wish that job on anyone). I would rather a post or series of posts be locked down or erased limiting the potential for flare ups that inevitably happen again and again. Heavy handed , sure, but the potential impact of this forum being shut down is a far bigger loss to me (long term) than a single or a few "going no where fast" threads.

[AudioGenics]

...change cannot be mandated or forced

[steveinaz]

At the forum level, sure it can. It's called warning, then banning. Those that refuse to change will be gone.

[inspiredsports]

...change cannot be mandated or forced

A change in "belief" or "attitude" may not be mandated or forced, but a change in behavior certainly can be forced if an errant member's membership here is banned for a period of time or permanently.

I'm not an advocate of this as I'm all about rugged individualism and an self-control, but I'm just saying . . .

[shawn474]

Don't ask me to fix something that I have ZERO capacity to fix.


We all definitely have the capacity to "fix" our own behavior. Beyond that, let the chips fall where they may. Whatever happens, happens. At least then those people will know they did what they could do heed Al's request and make this a better forum.

Like I said, I don't disagree that more moderators could help. I just don't think they will change the people who really are part of the problem.

[Lorthos]

At the forum level, sure it can. It's called warning, then banning. Those that refuse to change will be gone.

There you go, a simple two step process...

[steveinaz]

These forums have incredible social power. Take a look at both the Glock and Ruger forums. Both have stiff social/etiquette rules, and are wildly successful---large memberships. People like a forum minus the drama and constant bickering, and EGO's. They adapt pretty quick, or they leave. Both are moderated well, and rules enforced consistently.

[concealer404]

We all definitely have the capacity to "fix" our own behavior. Beyond that, let the chips fall where they may. Whatever happens, happens. At least then those people will know they did what they could do heed Al's request and make this a better forum.

Like I said, I don't disagree that more moderators could help. I just don't think they will change the people who really are part of the problem.

I don't think it matters if they change or not. If they change, they stay. If they don't, then there's the door.

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

[AudioGenics]

that appears to be enforcement....

[Matt34]

These forums have incredible social power. Take a look at both the Glock and Ruger forums. Both have stiff social/etiquette rules, and are wildly successful---large memberships. People like a forum minus the drama and constant bickering, and EGO's. They adapt pretty quick, or they leave. Both are moderated well, and rules enforced consistently.

100% agreed, great forum models.

[ALL212]

I am obvously a newbie here based on my rating but I'm a tad over 50% of the way to being 100 years old - I've had a stereo since I was in Jr. High - no, I didn't have to ask Mr. Edison to wire my house.

I'd like to place a vote to keep the forums here - modify them if need be but please, don't remove them. I've found invaluable information here and found some friends as well. I don't like the deliberate baiting on topics nor do I like the poor behavior of some of the folks that travel through here but - I do know the difference between a troll and a valueable contributing member and how to interact with them appropriately.

Jstas for President. Good common sense post, thanks!

[devani]

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

its like people who needs to lose weight for health concerns....it's alot harder to actually change....

try telling a smoker friend to quit smoking...

even if it matter their health and even their life, no they won't change

[shawn474]

I don't think it matters if they change or not. If they change, they stay. If they don't, then there's the door.

We all have the capacity to fix our own behavior, and i'm sure that most people will. But to the end, those who need to change, probably won't, and there's where your control, or my control, or steve's control or capacity doesn't even matter anymore. How are the rest handled? See above. Change or be removed.

I agree; essentially we are all stating the same point. The bottom line is to behave ourselves. We don't need more moderators to tell us how to behave. Really, we don't need more moderators. What people perceive as a lack of moderation might just be that the mods were giving all of us the benfit of the doubt. That now flies out the window with Al's request. So the answer is simple, behave ourselves, let the current mods do their job and see what happens. Post where appropriate and stay out of stuff that could lead to trouble. The mods (new or old; 15 or 3) will take care of enforcing the rules. It's the old chicken or the egg argument. Did the forum deteriorate because of a lack of moderation or because we didn't respect the rules that have been laid out and accepted as a member?

[steveinaz]

Devani-
If its that tough for someone to be respectful of other peoples opinions, they probably aren't very successful in any social situation.

Of all the activity that goes on here at CP, I would say 97% of it is positive, about 3% negative (and I am here practically every day). I'm not sure what the hope is on a forum this large.

I've stated my solutions, I'm done here.

[shack]

I've stayed out of this for the most part. (I'm still amazed how people get bent over something said on an internet fourm...but I digress)

I truly hope that the vast majority of "fixes" proposed in this thread are ignored by the administration. The only thing I would like to see is more moderation and enforcement of the rules as Polk Audio sees fit. Not what is "fair"...but whatever PA determines them to be. If the mods ban someone. It's done. If they shut down a topic. It's done. Then PA should then ignore all the BS that follows those decisions. They need to take control of THEIR forum.

IF this forum remains open...and IF I continue to participate under whatever changes that transpire...I doubt I will change much of anything I do or have done. To the best of my recollection I have never been warned or put on probation (maybe super secret probation that I wasn't aware of). I make a jab every now and then but I don't take it personal. If I see BS...I will call it BS and move on. If I see something blatantly stupid...I say so and move on. If someone asks for opinions/advice/help...I will give them...defend them...and move on. I would be willing to bet that I have one of the largest ignore lists on the forum. I suggest others think about doing the same.

I hope the forum remains in relatively the same form it is now. It would be a shame to lose it or for it to become a watered down shell of it's past. If either of those occur...so be it...life goes on. I have made lots of good friends here...and those friendships for the most part will endure even if CP disappears.

In summary: IMO more mods with the authority, power and determination to enforce Polk Audio's RULES.

[phuz]

Steve and shack pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Self policing will not work. A clear set of rules and swift, objective, public action is needed. Everything else will fall into place after that.

People know the rules, they just don't follow them because there are no consequences except in extreme cases. A true code of conduct/expectations, and mods, can make it happen.

[obieone]

In the Navy, we had a saying: "Don't NUKE it!", which means, don't over complicate a simple stiuation. Ya'll NEED to read my signature, and learn how to use the IGNORE feature.

As far as the FM goes, yeah, I think it should be 100 posts, and 30 days probation.

As far as a certain individual, pretending that they're writing for the New Yorker, put them on IGNORE, and move along.
Ditto for any thread with Emotiva in the title.

It's not hard folks. Stop nuking it:rolleyes:

[bruss]

They need to take control of THEIR forum.



My thoughts exactly.

[Face]

Shack is dead on.

[devani]

My thoughts exactly.

well, they are certainly gonig to shut down if people don't behave....that's control

[amulford]

Okay, I have read everything up to now and have thought through what I am about to say. Take it for what you will.

Many of you do not know who I am. Many of you do. Those that do know I am a fair, no BS, no nonsense person who calls it like he sees it. There is no sugarcoating it with me, but I do strive not to be particularly offensive to anyone. Basically I would like to treat others as I would be treated. That seems to have been lost by some as of late.

I have been a member of this community for going on seven years. As such, although I sometimes have drifted away from the boards for one reason or another, this little piece of cyberspace has become somewhat a part of my life. For that fact, it does matter to me what happens to it.

I have made some very good friends on these boards. To be honest (and I am sure this is true for quite a few of us) I believe if I wanted to travel to almost any part of this country (and some parts of the world) I could count on someone here to allow me to enjoy their hospitality (as would happen to them if they came near to me). That is the nature of many of the personalities who are members in this community. I liken it to having an extended family.

I have made some acquaintances with which I would rather not associate myself. And I admit to informing these people of that in no uncertain terms. Let's face it, not everyone is going to get along with everyone. It's just the nature of the human psyche and the world is a more interesting place because of it.

But the truth of the matter is that we are here due to the courtesy of Polk Audio. Yes this Forum could be and has proven itself a tremendously successful marketing tool and technical resource to a myriad group worldwide. Be that as it may, sound business strategy will not allow it’s existence if it ceases to thrive in the form for which it was intended. And at that juncture, my good people are where we are now.

You have been forewarned, time has come for a change, and that change is forthcoming. The status quo of this forum, while in my opinion was rather good, apparently has not lived up expectations. Therefore it shall not remain. We have ourselves to blame for this unfortunate circumstance, collectively, whether you wish to hear it or not. Finger pointing is irrelevant now. The damage is done.

There have been some good suggestions as to what we could do to salvage the situation. I have formulated some of my own. The largest change, however, must come from within our community on an individual basis. That means you and me, folks. If it doesn’t, this will be a lost place and you will have no one but yourself to blame. That loss would be significant, for there is a wealth of knowledge and technical expertise residing here you would be hard pressed to find elsewhere.

In my opinion, the rules as such very adequate and do not need to change. (The fact that they are even necessary is a sad fact, but I digress). The flexibility of the present form allows every one to act in an adult manner. The addition of some membership requirements may be made. That should help with the spammers.

I could see the addition of a couple moderators, non paid volunteers, to assist the present group. This group could be given the privileges of issuing warnings, meting out short term suspensions (only for flagrant violations) and closing threads. Any long term suspensions and lifetime bans should be a collective decision based on research and record, with at least three in agreement. That would stifle any outcry of personal vendetta and democratize the process.

Common respect, proper decorum and forum etiquette should be followed at all times by all parties. We have a counter that was developed for flea market transactions; perhaps a simpler model could be developed for one for tracking progressive discipline. My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via PM
Second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
Third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
Fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
Fifth offense- a lifetime ban

These rules are the same for everyone, as are the punishments. Your asked to conduct yourselves in a manner befitting the title of adult. If you can’t, hit the pike because we don’t need you. Pure and simple…

Al, you do what you think is best. While I selfishly would like to see this place continue as it is, I fully understand the need for something to be done.

Anthony Mulford

[Knucklehead]

I just dont get it.....since Ive been here it seems to me that Polk has empowered the users of this forum to dictate the direction here, we have some that want more mods, more rules, honestly I dont think that is what Mark or Al is looking for here. I think the "ignore" reccomendation is probably the best yet. I couldnt imagine being a mod and getting complaints from people on an AUDIO forum on a daily basis. They want us to behave or leave...plain and simple, its not really that complicated. David

[Pauly]

^^^ Well said Anthony

Pauly

[Vette C6.r]

I woke up and did my daily routine today. Got my coffee and went onto the Polk Forum. When I clicked on my "favorites" list to get to this website my brouser for some reason didn't connect and gave an error. Well needless to say I freaked out thinking that the site got shut down. Re-clicked and it appeared.

For those few seconds I felt how it feels for this to be shut down. Not a good feeling.

[shawn474]

okay, i have read everything up to now and have thought through what i am about to say. Take it for what you will.

Many of you do not know who i am. Many of you do. Those that do know i am a fair, no bs, no nonsense person who calls it like he sees it. There is no sugarcoating it with me, but i do strive not to be particularly offensive to anyone. Basically i would like to treat others as i would be treated. That seems to have been lost by some as of late.

I have been a member of this community for going on seven years. As such, although i sometimes have drifted away from the boards for one reason or another, this little piece of cyberspace has become somewhat a part of my life. For that fact, it does matter to me what happens to it.

I have made some very good friends on these boards. To be honest (and i am sure this is true for quite a few of us) i believe if i wanted to travel to almost any part of this country (and some parts of the world) i could count on someone here to allow me to enjoy their hospitality (as would happen to them if they came near to me). That is the nature of many of the personalities who are members in this community. I liken it to having an extended family.

I have made some acquaintances with which i would rather not associate myself. And i admit to informing these people of that in no uncertain terms. Let's face it, not everyone is going to get along with everyone. It's just the nature of the human psyche and the world is a more interesting place because of it.

But the truth of the matter is that we are here due to the courtesy of polk audio. Yes this forum could be and has proven itself a tremendously successful marketing tool and technical resource to a myriad group worldwide. Be that as it may, sound business strategy will not allow it’s existence if it ceases to thrive in the form for which it was intended. And at that juncture, my good people are where we are now.

You have been forewarned, time has come for a change, and that change is forthcoming. The status quo of this forum, while in my opinion was rather good, apparently has not lived up expectations. Therefore it shall not remain. We have ourselves to blame for this unfortunate circumstance, collectively, whether you wish to hear it or not. Finger pointing is irrelevant now. The damage is done.

There have been some good suggestions as to what we could do to salvage the situation. I have formulated some of my own. The largest change, however, must come from within our community on an individual basis. That means you and me, folks. If it doesn’t, this will be a lost place and you will have no one but yourself to blame. That loss would be significant, for there is a wealth of knowledge and technical expertise residing here you would be hard pressed to find elsewhere.

In my opinion, the rules as such very adequate and do not need to change. (the fact that they are even necessary is a sad fact, but i digress). The flexibility of the present form allows every one to act in an adult manner. The addition of some membership requirements may be made. That should help with the spammers.

I could see the addition of a couple moderators, non paid volunteers, to assist the present group. This group could be given the privileges of issuing warnings, meting out short term suspensions (only for flagrant violations) and closing threads. Any long term suspensions and lifetime bans should be a collective decision based on research and record, with at least three in agreement. That would stifle any outcry of personal vendetta and democratize the process.

Common respect, proper decorum and forum etiquette should be followed at all times by all parties. We have a counter that was developed for flea market transactions; perhaps a simpler model could be developed for one for tracking progressive discipline. My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via pm
second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
fifth offense- a lifetime ban

these rules are the same for everyone, as are the punishments. Your asked to conduct yourselves in a manner befitting the title of adult. If you can’t, hit the pike because we don’t need you. Pure and simple…

al, you do what you think is best. While i selfishly would like to see this place continue as it is, i fully understand the need for something to be done.

Anthony mulford


best....................................post...... .................................yet!

[danger boy]

My model would be as follows:

First offense – a private warning sent via PM
Second offense - a public warning issued and the closing of the thread
Third offense- a seven day suspension of posting privileges
Fourth offense- a thirty day suspension of posting privileges
Fifth offense- a lifetime ban

Anthony Mulford


Yikes! Sorry Anthony, I love ya man.. but that's to soft for the hijinx that goes on in this forum.

Maybe I would rather rule with an iron fist as opposed to a hug. No offense Anthony, but you need inject some pain so people get the idea that this current BS will stop now. Make it sting a lot.

In case anyone was late to my post several pages back here is my idea.

one warning, the next time there is no warning, you are banned for life. No second chances. You eff up, and try to continue to be a PITA, you're gone. Plain an simple.

Anthony, really enjoyed your well thought out post, except for the punishment part of it.. I felt it was way to lax.

Danger Boi

[heiney9]

Shack hit all the good points. That's the only way it can be done while still keeping the integrity of the current forum intact, which I think works for the most part.

[jz0h4d]

I have to agree that this forum needs some policing.
I'm a new comer here and have been called a troll for not agreeing with someone's opinion.
I have been an electronic technician for 30 years and a musician for over 40 years.

[doggie750]

I love this forum and I hate the haters who barks immaturely but it is the least of my concern. These AHoles are everywhere offline and online, neighbors, co-workers, classmates, supervisors....etc. Again, there's better things out there to focus on and live life. So for the AHoles out there, keep representing your un-educated, immature traits.......JUST so you know, the moment you talk sh>>T, I skip.

MUCH RESPECT TO THE OP....and the FATHER of this FORUM.;)

[exalted512]

Yikes! Sorry Anthony, I love ya man.. but that's to soft for the hijinx that goes on in this forum.

Maybe I would rather rule with an iron fist as opposed to a hug. No offense Anthony, but you need inject some pain so people get the idea that this current BS will stop now. Make it sting a lot.

In case anyone was late to my post several pages back here is my idea.

one warning, the next time there is no warning, you are banned for life. No second chances. You eff up, and try to continue to be a PITA, you're gone. Plain an simple.

Anthony, really enjoyed your well thought out post, except for the punishment part of it.. I felt it was way to lax.

Danger Boi

I dont agree. I like Anthony's model, minus step 1. Go straight to a public warning, that way everyone knows what happened. If it was something really bad, then yes, move it up a notch.

I think a big problem is the lack of going public. Someone sees some guy saying one thing bad...that guy gets a PM saying 'no no no!' But no one else sees it...then others chime in thinking its okay, he didnt get punished for it, ill do it too.

I say make it public, hell, start a subforum in the hall of shame for it. Everyone who ever has been warned, put it in the forum--who got warned and what for. Hell, change their little description from 'polkologist' to 'strike one'

I know its been said 100x, but I think moderation...PUBLIC moderation is the key.

You think if i didnt see cops I wouldnt speed? Same theory. People need to SEE moderation to let them know someone is always watching...you screw up, youre going to get punished.
-Cody

[inspiredsports]

This is a tough problem.

I came here just 2-1/2 years ago looking to rekindle a passion that had laid dormant for nearly 20 years as my wife and I brought our 4 children to their high school / college years where (slightly) less maintenance is required. :)

I've become extremely dedicated to the group as the information gained here has been world class. And I've grown to feel protective of the integrity of this great information (and the superlative sound emanating from my tweaked 2B's and SRS 2's are a great testament to how good this place is). I simply couldn't have improved my system so quickly without this group.

Personally, when I see a new arrival with 2 or 3 posts immediately offer something for sale or enter into controversial thread, it makes me think twice. That person could be a pure genius, but their lack of "getting a feel for how things work" sure raises a red flag. It also seems this type of poster rarely has a question about Polk products. In many cases it seems like a challenge to the great wealth of good information that can be had here with no stake in the game.

I believe an extremely high percentage of the problems Polk management hears about start in this way.

I guess in a sense it is the folks who love this forum the most trying to protect the immense integrity of the forum that causes some of the problems.

[danger boy]

I have to agree that this forum needs some policing.
I'm a new comer here and have been called a troll for not agreeing with someone's opinion.
I have been an electronic technician for 30 years and a musician for over 40 years.


troll :p ;)


in all seriousness... welcome to the club. it's a good place to hang out.. and with your 30 yrs of experience.. i'm sure you have plenty to contribute.

the thing is.. you get out of this forum what you put into it.. be an active member and the rewards are endless. ;)

[RuSsMaN]

Thanks for all the ideas ladies and gents, stay close to the channel over the next few days for breaking news from the front lines.

Now back to your regularly scheduled audio program.