LSi9 or 15

[mangata572]

I think this has been debated before; however I don’t remember the outcome. For 2- channel music should I go for the LSi15s or LSi9s and a good sub? This is for a 640 sq ft basement bar area with a 7 foot ceiling.

[RuSsMaN]

Listen to both, the networks are very different, the 15 is NOT *just* a 9 with an extra woof.

I don't know your tastes, what you listen to, how loud you listen to it, but in general, for 2ch listening I would say go with the 9's, and see if you even need to add a sub.

Cheers,
Russ

[polkatese]

yeah, like what Russ said. For strictly 2ch I would go with LSi9. An *musical* sub is optional, albeit it won't hurt.

[mangata572]

Thanks for the quick response Russ. I did not realize the 9s and 15s were different other than the cabinet / woofer. I wonder if the imaging is easier to set up with the 9s vs. 15s? The closest LSi dealer is about 2 hrs away, so I will probably get them from Crutchfield without listening to them first. I do like your suggestion of getting the 9s then adding a sub if need be. I am just going on the good responses from Club Polk. My music choice is just about everything from pop, classical, rock… except for country and rap (however I do like some Kid Rock[is he rap/country?]). As far as how loud, well I guess that depends on how drunk we all are!

[Zero]

Manga,

Agreed with Russ. I do HIGHLY recommend a sub-woofer with the 9's. Those drivers try to play notes they simply cannot muster, making them incredibly easy to bust. In fact, they are the most fragile speaker I've come across to date.

Get a good musical sub behind them - the result will be killer.

[fireshoes]

I guess you would say I like the 15's better, huh? ;)

[mantis]

In fact, they are the most fragile speaker I've come across to date.
for the most abusive user on the forum....LOL

I have had my Lsi15's playing at 114db in 2 channel.They didn't crackel,they didn't pop,they didn't distort in any way and the drivers are still in tact........

Abuse is Abuse what are you going to do...............

My vote here is for the Lsi15's.I perer there sound over the 9's,which is almost exactly the same.......

[Zero]

Dan,

Most abusive user on the forum? Yet you have pulled more DB's than I have on my gear - ever? Pot, kettle, black?

I will admit to having abused my 2000p's. Most of it was un-intentional and simply came with the territory of beginners ignorance. Yep, those things were put through their trials and then some.

However, I do resent anyone who claims that abuse was done on the 9's. These speakers have been treated exceptionally well, dare I say, better than most people probably treat their own equipment. There is absolutely no reason why the bass drivers flapped, none whatsoever.

I maintain my stance that they are by far the most fragile speakers I, personally, have come across.

Perhaps I am taking this a bit far, but this accusation of abuse ruffles my feathers.....

Regards,

Sean

[organ]

Sean,
How hard were you pushing the 9's? I run mine full range and pump them up really loud without a problem. I hope Polk took care of replacing the drivers for you. Did they charge you for the replacement?

Oh yeah, how's the SDA? Do you still like them more than the LSi?

As for the original question, I haven't heard the 15's but love my 9's and never felt the need to upgrade to the 15's.


Maurice

[Frank Z]

I should get my 9's on monday or tuesday (Thanks Hoosier21 aka Russ), might have to set 'em up and see how they do compared to the 15's for 2 channel.

[polkatese]

so Frank, what amp will you pair the 9 with?

[Zero]

Maurice,

First let me apologize for de-railing this thread a bit. It has been one hell of a trying day for me, I'm not in the best of spirits as it is.

To address your questions....

The Lsi's were given the red carpet treatment. A decent source, alright wire, nothing too low fi that would damage them. Volume was over-all very conservative. Because I did not have a sub, I was very carefull to keep heavy bass tracks away from them. This includes Linkin Park, Eminem, Incubus, etc.. I would turn the volume down even on a bass passage during the movie.

Yes, I was anal about keeping these things dusted and running well..... Turns out, that effort was for nothing. They bottomed out on a Santana track *forgot the name of the track, from the latest cd*...... In Sum of All Fears, a scene when the camera zooms up to the aircraft also played havok with those little drivers.

Might I add, this is at very modest volumes.... to say I was pissed is a complete understatement. Quite frankly, accustations such as these do not help my resolve any.

No - Polk did not replace the drivers.

As for the SDA's. Let me try and break this down real quick.

I felt the SDA's carried many positive attributes:

They could blend well with other speakers
They sounded damn good with old rock
Very detailed.

Thats where the fairy tail ends. If Im not listening to old rock on the SDA's, or a movie, I hate them....

The LSi's to me, aside from my negative experience with the 9's, was much like a dick tease.

A sound I enjoyed, so close to what I wanted, but just not there. It was tormenting...making it nearly impossible to sit back and enjoy the music.

I enjoyed the LSi's more than I did the SDA's.

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by polkatese
so Frank, what amp will you pair the 9 with? For the time being I'm going to use my "old" Pioneer Elite M-10x (100x2 @4ohms) But I'm thinking about picking up a DIY tube amp kit. I'd like to get one that looks old to match my wifes antique Philco radio.

[polkatese]

That would be a cool project, let us know how it mates...

[fireshoes]

I am extremely hard on the LSi's I have at my disposal at work. Run on anything and everything for a receiver, and got the volume loud enough to shut several receivers down. No drivers have failed so far. We did lose the amp section in an LSi25 once (not sure what the problem was there). I would hardly term them a fragile speaker, let alone the most fragile. Check out some of the Sony HTIB's. ;)

BTW, the Sum of All Fears seems to be a nasty film for speakers. I pretty much irradicated a PSW404 with the nuclear explosion scene. It was fun! :D Someone had cranked up the sub volume and I didn't realize it. Oops!

[Zero]

So again I ask - what the hell was the problem??

[faster100]

Originally posted by ATCVenom
So again I ask - what the hell was the problem??

all due respect, your strangly strange about speakers. :)

seems your a hard one to please on speakers and equipment, keep searching maybe you will find the real deal someday??????

[madmax]

Originally posted by Frank Z
For the time being I'm going to use my "old" Pioneer Elite M-10x (100x2 @4ohms) But I'm thinking about picking up a DIY tube amp kit. I'd like to get one that looks old to match my wifes antique Philco radio.

My experience with Lsi's and tubes was not a happy one. I tried a pair of 100W Manley mono blocks on my Lsi15's and was extremely disappointed. They could not drive the Lsi's reasonably. I think tubes are more of a voltage source and the Lsi's need more of a current source? In any case the Lsi's came alive when I hooked up a 350W per channel SS amp. Night and day difference here. (and I'm a tube guy).
madmax

[mantis]

ATC,
didn't mean to ruffle you all up but calling the Lsi's a fragile speaker simply isn't true.Your opnion I will respect it,but it just differs from my experience.....and thats fine man.

Speakers go bad,drivers go bad,sometimes they can be defective right from the get go,it happens.The fact that you bought your Lsi9's from online and no warranty I feel is a bad move.I know you saved some cash,but your speaker didn't get fixed under warranty.....Well that was the past and you have moved on since then so lets let that rest.

Abusive was a joke,You blew the hell out of your rt2000p's and seem to kill just about every electronic device you have owned recently,your string of bad luck if you will.....

[Frank Z]

Madmax,
I'm kinda surprised to hear that. I've heard Lsi's driven by a Conrad Johnson tupe amp and the sounded incredible!

[Zero]

Faster,

No problems at all bud. You will have to ignore the majority of my comments last night. It's just been a very crappy week..... my tolerance level is down to niltch. Afraid today is just going to be another trying day.....

And yes, I am one picky bastard. Too bad Im a poor one as well.


Dan,

As stated to Faster, yesterday was just a bad day. Not meaning to go off on a little tangent.

I will re-contrust my statement in regards to the LSi and say that in my experience, the LSi-9 bass drivers are indeed sensitive to low fequencies without the accompanyment of a sub-woofer, at modest volumes. Fortunately for most people, this seems does not to be the case.

As you say, it is the past now. "fuggittabout it"

hehe And the 2000p's, rest their soul.... wonder what ever became of them.....

[madmax]

Originally posted by Frank Z
Madmax,
I'm kinda surprised to hear that. I've heard Lsi's driven by a Conrad Johnson tupe amp and the sounded incredible!

The Manleys are great amps and the CJ's may be better... The very low volumes were nice but but it was like I couldn't get them out of second gear. (to use an old car phrase).
madmax

[Frank Z]

Max,
Thanks for the info. Between your comments and my discussion with Jerry yesterday, it's obvious that I'll have to do a lot of research before starting a DIY tube project.

[Dr. Spec]

Just scanning this thread, but my $0.02:

Get the 15s - they extend to flat to ~ 33 Hz and would be perfect for a moderate volume 2 channel purist rig.

They could also perfectly serve double duty in a HT rig set to small with an 80 or 60 Hz crossver and a really good sub to deliver the huge deep impacts and air movement that HT demands.

The LSi9 would need a great sub and an 80 Hz crossover for both music and HT as it only extends flat to ~ 53 Hz - hardly adequate even for music.

Once you pay for a set of nice stands for the 9's, you come pretty close to the 15's anyway.

At one time I thought the 9's would be the WTG all around, but ATC's experience with them has me a bit wary and I think the 15's would be more durable over the long haul.

Doc

[mantis]

Actually Doc......
I tested my Lsi15's and they played down to 32 flat......really impressive.They can play down in the 28hz range with about 6db loss.at 24hz they loose it and 22 there gone.No usable bass there.
The Lsi15's would best be paired with a REL Storm III.It's unique setup allows you to crossover the sub where you need it.It comes in around the 30 hz range for full range mains and also allows you to crossver again with it's dual preamps for HT at around 80 hz or so....where you need it.

The Lsi15's are the most impressive speaker in my opnion under 1700.00.The only pair that I have heard that would give them a close run for there money would be the Dynaudio Audience 72's.This is one shoot out I would personally love to conduct.
I would use some Rotel gear for the test.

[madmax]

Hey mantis,
What do you think of the Kenwood higher end stuff for Lsi's? Any experience? I forget the name of the series. A friend seems interested in it.
madmax

[mantis]

Mad,
I have Installed tons of the Soviern Series.It's ok,I wouldn't mate it with Lsi.I feel the Kenwood doesn't yield the kind of sound quality to mate up with Lsi.

Here's what I believe in for Lsi in receivers.

1)B&K avr507
2)Rotel rsx1065
3)Rotel rsx1055
4)Pioneer Elite vsx49txi
5)Sunfire Ultimate receiver

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by mantis
Actually Doc......
I tested my Lsi15's and they played down to 32 flat......really impressive.They can play down in the 28hz range with about 6db loss.at 24hz they loose it and 22 there gone.No usable bass there.

Well there ya go, straight from the horses mouth. I figured flat to 33 and it's actually 32.

There is some music out there that goes lower than 30 Hz, and I agree for this the 15's would need a sub. For moderate volume you could actually crossover to the sub at 33-35 Hz.

However, many towers that are flat to 32 hz at moderate volume can't deliver the same 32 Hz at much high volumes without stress and distortion. This is known as a "non-linear" SPL/FR relationship.

At higher volumes typical of HT, you would need to crossover to the sub at a higher frequency because those woofs in the 15's hardly qualify as true rugged, high excursion woofs meant to deliver the massive impacts HT often requires. I'd use 60-80 Hz for HT with the 15's.

Doc

[madmax]

Originally posted by Dr. Spec

At higher volumes typical of HT, you would need to crossover to the sub at a higher frequency because those woofs in the 15's hardly qualify as true rugged, high excursion woofs meant to deliver the massive impacts HT often requires. I'd use 60-80 Hz for HT with the 15's.

Doc

Just wondering, what freq would you cross over the Lsi9's at?
madmax

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by madmax001
Just wondering, what freq would you cross over the Lsi9's at?
madmax

The typical high pass filter rate is 12 dB/octave - that's a pretty shallow drop-off rate, hardly a brick wall.

Since the LSi9 is only flat to about 53-55 Hz, I would set the crossover frequency at 80 Hz for the LSi9.

That would still allow bass (albeit progressively diminishing in amplitude) to be sent to the LSi9's well down into the 50 Hz region.

Doc

[pjdami]

Since the LSi9 is only flat to about 53-55 Hz, I would set the crossover frequency at 80 Hz for the LSi9.

80 is where I have my LSi 9's crossed over at usng a PSW 350 sub. Sounds great. I smell a sub upgrade coming in the next few months. I have to get the LSi center channel first though.

Paul

[organ]

Paul,
Did you try bi-wiring the 9's straight from the amp? I actually lived with the 9's with a single wire run for a few days and it didn't sound as good. I was able to tell the difference(same with the 800i's). Did the sound quality stay the same after passing through the filter in your PSW350? I was thinking about using the filter in my PSW650 but I'm not sure if the filter is of good enough quality. I'm currently running them full range and love the sound. It should be fun to try filtering them. I'll try it when I have time.

Maurice

[begbie]

Frank,

Do you plan on integrating the 9's with your present system ?

Or plan on putting together another system ?

I'm thinking on going with 9's and a 2-channel stereo setup only.

[Frank Z]

Not too sure yet. I think I'll set them up in my living room and connect them via the Pioneer receiver for the time being. I've also got a Yamaha receiver in my bedroom that I may use with my 2 channel amp.

Decisions, decisions!:D

[RuSsMaN]

Originally posted by begbie

I'm thinking on going with 9's and a 2-channel stereo setup only.

They will handle that duty FINE. The LSi9 is (imo) the flagship of the line, and, when properly driven, can handle 2ch like a charm, no sub needed. I'm not going to get into a small-large-bass mgmt BS post, or debate 3db down ratings. We (as a general populous) have been running 2ch rigs full-range since the inception of 'stereo' with NO issues, as long as the 'assumed' rules are obeyed (clipping etc).

This you can quote me on:

The LSi9 is a phenomenal 2ch stereo speaker, when properly driven. Incredibly flat, and very detailed. Mid range is second to none, vocals come through (both male and female) with clarity and balance, and the bass is outright retarded for a speaker this size.

Cheers,
Rooster

[pjdami]

Maurice,



Did you try bi-wiring the 9's straight from the amp? I actually lived with the 9's with a single wire run for a few days and it didn't sound as good. I was able to tell the difference(same with the 800i's). Did the sound quality stay the same after passing through the filter in your PSW350? I was thinking about using the filter in my PSW650 but I'm not sure if the filter is of good enough quality. I'm currently running them full range and love the sound. It should be fun to try filtering them. I'll try it when I have time.

The beauty of the PT5 preamp and why I fell in love with it is that besides being a B&K product, it has a sub output on the back of the preamp. The sub is filtered at 80 hz with a 12 db per octave slope. In addition it has preouts for full range for the mains and for high pass at 80 db for the mains. I use the 80 hz high pass with the sub so do not filter at the sub. this is essentially the same as running a receiver with the mains set to small and a sub. This is a great feature for a preamp in this price range that I didn't see with Adcom or NAD; hence my decision to purchase the B&K. I did try full range on the LSi 9's with the sub output on the preamp going to the sub but I found it a little "boomy" for my taste. Also generates standing waves and that's a whole different discussion with cancellation. Furthermore, I found the midrange to clear up a bit with the LSi 9 crossed over at 80 and letting the sub take care of the lows. This helps to free up power for the main amp to handle the mids / highs. Also extra insurance that I won't be sending low stuff to the nines which they may be sensitive too since some members feel that the nines are easy to bust (I haven't had any problems with this; never even heard the woof bottom out yet).

Paul

P.s. Yes .. biwire is the way to go..