What's best for two channel?

[polkfan38]

Hi everyone. I am curious about which setup is best for two channel listening. Would it be two "monitors" (I have a pair of Monitor 40s) and a sub or a pair of towers with no sub?
Thanks!

[comfortablycurt]

They can sound great either way.

Many people are running setups with smaller monitors and stereo subs.

There really is no "best" way. Some people will say floorstanders sound best. Others will argue that monitors tend to image better.

One advantage to running monitors and subs, is that you can place the monitors for optimal imaging, and place the subs somewhere else, where they may get better bass response. With floorstanders, you're limited to one enclosure. You have to find the happy medium of good imaging, and good bass response. I've always run floorstanders for 2 channel, but I do plan to play around with some smaller monitors and stereo subs sometime down the line.

[cnh]

WELCOME TO CLUB POLK!

Have fun with the Monitor 40s...not a bad bookshelf....Curt is right...people run all kinds of systems here! Whatever floats your boat is best!

cnh

[packetjones]

Welcome to CP.

As others have said it is really up to the individual to determine what they like better. I started with bookshelves and a sub and was pretty happy with them. Then I upgraded to the A5's I have now and was impressed with them as well. I am not sure that i can say one is better than the other, they both sound great. I think it would really depend on placement options.

Either would be great. I would say make a decision and roll with it.

[nooshinjohn]

Big bad SDA's, lots of power and a turntable is the way I roll...

There are many options and opinions here, but the very best opinion will be your own. trust your ears and you will find your way.

[jaxwired]

It also depends on the room. A small room will work better with stand mount speakers. Also, you don't necessarily need a sub. Sometimes it's better to skip the sub.

[treitz3]

Hello and welcome to Club Polk. You have asked a rather loaded question that very much depends on your own listening preferences, listening levels, type of music played as well as a host of other considerations. I have heard some "to die for" monitor rigs as well as tower rigs. Both have there own sets of attributes and deficiencies. As mentioned before, it will depend on your own ears and preferences.

[xcapri79]

Hi everyone. I am curious about which setup is best for two channel listening. Would it be two "monitors" (I have a pair of Monitor 40s) and a sub or a pair of towers with no sub?
Thanks!

Welcome to Club Polk. There's never a best when it comes to audio. There is always something better and much of that is subjective. Everyone hears things differently and has different tastes.
Some things make a difference to some and don't to others.
That said, with a pair of Polk Monitor 40's you can enjoy good two channel sound with an inexpensive HK3390 or 3490 stereo receiver. The Monitor 40's are nice speakers for a table top two channel system. A musical sub is a nice option too.

[polkfan38]

I just wrote a whole paragraph here only to find I was kicked off! Anyway, I was wondering if the mids on the Monitor 50s or 60s are just as pronounced as they are on the Monitor 40s. I can listen to the TSi line at Best Buy but, the listening environment there is horse****!
Thanks all!

[polkfan38]

Does anyone here just run M 40s?

[zingo]

I prefer full range towers wit no subs, but that's my best-case-scenario. Monitors with a sub is a great combo for saving on space and money, but so is towers with a sub since I wouldn't consider most tower speakers "full-range".

[polkfan38]

On a side note, does anyone here have experience and thoughts of Infinity SL50s? I know this is a polk site but, just currious. I have some. I got them off of Craigs List for dirt cheap.

[bluecomet]

I you want a true 2 channel bookself experience go out and find some SDA CRS+ speakers. You will not need a sub and they will blow away any of the newer Polk speakers you are thinking about. A nice set will set you back between three and four hundred dollars. If you do this you will end up selling your monitor 40's by the end of the week and the SDA's will cost next to nothing. Just something to think about.

[zingo]

I you want a true 2 channel bookself experience go out and find some SDA CRS+ speakers. You will not need a sub and they will blow away any of the newer Polk speakers you are thinking about. A nice set will set you back between three and four hundred dollars. If you do this you will end up selling your monitor 40's by the end of the week and the SDA's will cost next to nothing. Just something to think about.

Good suggestion.

[dpowell]

I you want a true 2 channel bookself experience go out and find some SDA CRS+ speakers. You will not need a sub and they will blow away any of the newer Polk speakers you are thinking about. A nice set will set you back between three and four hundred dollars. If you do this you will end up selling your monitor 40's by the end of the week and the SDA's will cost next to nothing. Just something to think about.

+1 on the SDA's. For $300 - $400 you could probably land a good pair of Studio 1C's and you'd sell your Monitor's even faster.

That said, welcome to Club Polk and be aware of those of us who, when we first joined, were led down the slippery slope of 'investing' in audio bliss by other members and are now seeking out other new members to 'help' do the same thing.:D Hold onto your wallet! :eek:

To answer your original question, it really does depend on your tastes but a decent sub can really help fill in what is usually missing from bookshelf speakers.

[polkfan38]

I you want a true 2 channel bookself experience go out and find some SDA CRS+ speakers. You will not need a sub and they will blow away any of the newer Polk speakers you are thinking about. A nice set will set you back between three and four hundred dollars. If you do this you will end up selling your monitor 40's by the end of the week and the SDA's will cost next to nothing. Just something to think about.

You have SRS 1.2tls! Lucky SOB! I saw a guy on Ebay selling his for about $1,200! Mint and all original. Hell of a deal! The only problem was that they were about 1,000 miles away.
Anyway, Like the Infinity SL50s I got, I am going to keep looking at the used market. I will keep an eye out for the SDAs

[polkfan38]

For the sake of argument, would a reciever like a Denon 2310 or 3310 power a pair of SDA SRS 1.2tls adequitely?

[Cpyder]

Welcome! I am only running a pair of LSi9 bookshelves and love it! If you plan on watching movies you'll probably want a sub, but if music is your main concern, you don't have to get a sub to enjoy great sound. If cost is of little concern, I'd probably go with a pair of towers without a dedicated sub for critical 2 channel music listening.

[polkfan38]

I have a small no name sub I use for movies with another set up. it is fun sometimes with movies.
Anyway, I think I have made a decision and am going to get some Monitor 60s.

[wayne3burk]

I'm using a pair of Dynaco A-25s with a JBL PB10. I have the crossover set around 50HZ and the volume set quite low.

When only the sub is on it's barely perceptible when used with my two channel setting. But if does fill in nicely.

-- wayne --

p.s. the Dynaco A-25s are rated down to 30HZ and the JBL PB10 is only rated down to 35HZ. So who knows, maybe i shouldn't be using it at all.

[Cpyder]

I have a small no name sub I use for movies with another set up. it is fun sometimes with movies.
Anyway, I think I have made a decision and am going to get some Monitor 60s.

Sounds good. What finish?

[bluecomet]

To answer your question about an AVR powering SRS 1.2tl's, I would say no AVR is going to power them to there true potential. You are going to need a seperate amp at 200 watts per channel to get the most out of these speakers. I am fortunate to own two sets of the SRS 1.2tl's and a set of the SRS 1.2's and yes the neighbors hate me. I guess you could say I am a lucky SOB. The drawback to the big boys is you need a big room to let them breath. It's like having a Dodge Viper with 500hp and your driving in the city. You can't let loose until you hit the highway. Same premise with SDA's, look for SDA CRS+, SDA 2B's or SDA 1C's if you have an average room to listen to them in. The bigger speakers will overpower you.

[heiney9]

For the sake of argument, would a reciever like a Denon 2310 or 3310 power a pair of SDA SRS 1.2tls adequitely?

No

H9

[polkfan38]

Kind of what I figured! Those things are monsters. And on my dream list! To Cpyder, I like the cherry finish. I just can't go with the black. I actually wish they came in a light oak.

[polkfan38]

Speaking of finishes, has anyone re-vaneered their speakers? How did it turn out?

[polkfan38]

Now that I know what to do for speakers, i am curious about the reciever. I need a 5.1 model for the occasional movie. I was going to get a Denon AVR 1910 (a 7.1 model but, it has the video stuff I need) Would this model do or is there something else in the $4-500 range that has a "better" 2 channel sound? Thanks!

[cnh]

Depending on your tastes, possibly a Harman Kardon AVR254 or a Marantz 5004? These receivers are often perceived as a bit more musical. You may also want to think about pre-outs for external amplification in the future. The Denon 1910 does not have those--only the 3310 does and that ain't cheap! Whereas you might find the above closer to your price range. Listen and decide.

cnh

[steveinaz]

I don't care for subs in 2-channel, personally. After years of tower type speakers I recently made the switch to (nearly full range) monitors; I couldn't be happier with my decision.

Trade offs? Sure. But it depends on your priorities. With the a good monitor, imaging and soundstaging are typically far better--they more easily escape their enclosure, making for a very real feel to the performance. Towers have the ability to dig deeper in bass, and sometimes have higher dynamic capabilities. For me, the outstanding imagaing/soundstage was far more important than another 5-8Hz of bass extension, and my monitors actually produce a more musical bass than my Energy towers. Another often over-looked aspect is that you can get a very good monitor, for the price of a moderately good tower.

It really comes down to (like practically everything in this hobby) personal preference. I NEVER thought I'd own a standmount monitor...now my thinking is, I don't think I ever want to own another floorstander.

[cnh]

I don't care for subs in 2-channel, personally. After years of tower type speakers I recently made the switch to (nearly full range) monitors; I couldn't be happier with my decision.

Trade offs? Sure. But it depends on your priorities. With the a good monitor, imaging and soundstaging are typically far better--they more easily escape their enclosure, making for a very real feel to the performance. Towers have the ability to dig deeper in bass, and sometimes have higher dynamic capabilities. For me, the outstanding imagaing/soundstage was far more important than another 5-8Hz of bass extension, and my monitors actually produce a more musical bass than my Energy towers.

It really comes down to (like practically everything in this hobby) personal preference. I NEVER thought I'd own a standmount monitor...I was wrong.

I have to agree with that on a personal note. I've been noticing those very qualities in some of the bookshelves I've had a chance to hear in Hong Kong on Primare Pre/amp separates with a high end Marantz CDP. The smaller speakers filled the room better than their bigger brothers most of the time. It has made me rethink two channel for my home office on the return.

cnh

[polkfan38]

I will look into the HK stuff. But, this is interesting about the monitors vs towers debate. Now, I don't have a lot of listening experience with different speakers by any means but, I think you guys are on to something. I have the Infinity SL20s, SL50s and the Polk Monitor 40s. I like my SL20s and Monitor 40s much better for sound quality. The 40s dig a little deeper than the SL20s. They both seem much clearer in the mids than my SL50s and do create a slightly bigger sound stage. I would not say they fill the room better however. The SL50s and the Monitor 40s seem to "dissappear" better however. As you can still tell where the sound is coming from on the SL20s sometimes.
I guess overall, I like my monitor 40s the best. My Infinitys are doing duty in my livingroom and will not be in my more dedicated HT/ listening room.

[steveinaz]

Some bookshelf/monitors don't pull-off a disappearing act as well--you get what you pay for. My Energy C-3's can't seem to stretch much outside of the confines of the cabinets, nor do they have the depth in soundstage of my Carbon 7's (nor the bass), but then they listed for 2/3rds less.

[polkfan38]

So true. I would love to someday to buy some more upscale speakers to see for myself. For $1000 it would be the Focal 806v. For $1,500, the B&W CM5. I would like to try some RTis at some point however.

[polkfan38]

If I get some smaller SDAs like 2bs or 1cs, is there anything I might need? Common ground amp?

[Zitro]

In my experience, I do not like a sub because placement is so touchy and if you get it wrong, it just doesn't sound natural. I'd rather use towers in a larger room or monitors in a small room where a sub would not be needed to reinforce the bottom end. Imaging and soundstage have been better on most monitors I've heard, with few exceptions (Audio Physic being the only tower I've heard that images and soundstages better than most monitors).

[hearingimpared]

If I get some smaller SDAs like 2bs or 1cs, is there anything I might need? Common ground amp?

You need a common ground amp and make sure the SDA interconnect comes with them. You can worry about upgrades/updates later.

[Conradicles]

If I get some smaller SDAs like 2bs or 1cs, is there anything I might need?

You may need to wipe the big smile off your face when you sit down and spend some time with them.:cool:

[Zitro]

All this talk of SDA's really makes me want to hear a pair... :(

[cnh]

All this talk of SDA's really makes me want to hear a pair... :(

There've got to be some Polkies in your neighborhood who have some! Send them a PM....they'll be only too glad to demo their pride and joy.

Or drive, train or fly to N.J. in October for Polkfest 2010...there's gotta be a pair of SDA's THERE!

cnh

[JPSmario]

All this talk of SDA's really makes me want to hear a pair... :(

After a lot of listening to monitors and RTA's at my friend's, I was just about hooked when I heard some 1C's he was trying. When I saw the 2A's on CL, I grabbed 'em and haven't looked back:D I can't afford anything new that's remotely close to how good these sound.

Once you hear them, you may not walk away;)

[hearingimpared]

There've got to be some Polkies in your neighborhood who have some! Send them a PM....they'll be only too glad to demo their pride and joy.

Or drive, train or fly to N.J. in October for Polkfest 2010...there's gotta be a pair of SDA's THERE!

cnh

My thoughts exactly.:)

[polkfan38]

All SDAs need a common ground amp? Crap! I will assume all recievers are NOT common ground.

[BizmanJoe]

I have had both set ups and there are pros and cons to both. The sub and sat system allows more flexibility for bass acoustics in a room ,as you can easily relocate the sub and the sub typically has provisions for modifying the cutoff frequency. However, IMHO the imaging of a pair of sats is not as good as a floorstander with larger mid and high frequency drivers. The larger floor standers provide larger stage and imaging, but the problem with most floorstanders is that your crossover is often fixed and the flexibility of relocating your built-in sub (if there is one) is not a possibility. However, because I have had both set ups, my experience leans toward the floorstanders since I have spectrum analyzers/equalizers in my system to account for variations in room acoustics.

[hearingimpared]

All SDAs need a common ground amp? Crap! I will assume all recievers are NOT common ground.

I think not. Receivers typically are common ground unless you go way high end and get multiple mono channels in the same chasis.

To verify, take a VOM, set to the lowest resistance setting and place the leads in grounds of the speaker posts. MAKE SURE THE POWER IS SHUT DOWN COMPLETELY BEFORE DOING THIS!!!! If the you get a reading of ZERO or near ZERO you have common ground.

[polkfan38]

Really? Cool! I will try it. Maybe I can go SDA afterall!

[ViperZ]

Some bookshelf/monitors don't pull-off a disappearing act as well--you get what you pay for. My Energy C-3's can't seem to stretch much outside of the confines of the cabinets, nor do they have the depth in soundstage of my Carbon 7's (nor the bass), but then they listed for 2/3rds less.

My B&W CDM-1 disappear in stereo mode very well. My friend's Paradigm Studio 20s also work like a charm in 2-ch.

[hearingimpared]

Really? Cool! I will try it. Maybe I can go SDA afterall!

Just make sure your receiver put out good, clean, high current power and your SDAs will sing.

[polkfan38]

Well, right now I have a Denon AVR 1802 but, I will be getting a AVR 1910 here soon. I know this won't do much for 1.2 tls but, I would think it should be fine with 2bs. I never "crank it"

[cnh]

2Bs are a much less demanding load but can still often dip down to 4 ohms or...so be careful. All those new Denon AVRs are common ground...everything is routed to a common power supply.

cnh

[hearingimpared]

Well, right now I have a Denon AVR 1802 but, I will be getting a AVR 1910 here soon. I know this won't do much for 1.2 tls but, I would think it should be fine with 2bs. I never "crank it"

Well, 90 wpc x 7 really isn't the kind of power you would typically use but I read where they are high current output so you might get away with it. You'll never know till you try it.

[wutadumsn23]

All this talk of SDA's really makes me want to hear a pair... :(

Heard a pair at the Seattle area mini meet, and I was hooked. Never had any desire to get a 2 ch. rig up and running, but after I heard them, the Monitor 5's and my Monitor 70's/TSi 500's in 2 ch. mode, I was hooked. I just got a pair of Peerless Monitor 10A's about a month ago, and the quest to find stuff to get them singing has begun, lol.

-Jeff

[polkfan38]

Well, 90 wpc x 7 really isn't the kind of power you would typically use but I read where they are high current output so you might get away with it. You'll never know till you try it.

The only reason I am getting the 1910 is for the video wizardry it offers. I am still just going to run it in 5.1 mode. And I usually don't crank it. I will find out if the AVR runs home to moma if it gets worked too hard. Does anyone else out there run SDAs with a 1910? Or any other lower end Denon?

[BizmanJoe]

Even if you don't crank it, because of the dynamic range involved with most modern mediums, it would be a good idea IMHO, to use the 1910 as a pre and add power amps to make your set up sing... even at low volumes. Most AVRs just don't have enough juice in their power supply for running a full rig such as 5.1 and 7.1 effectively, from what I have heard.

[BizmanJoe]

Another consideration is to use active/powered speakers for surrounds. That'll allow you to divert all the juice in the power supply to the mains and center, right?

[polkfan38]

I will look but, I am not sure if the 1910 has pre outs.

[Bernal]

+ DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
+ SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
+ POLKAUDIO LSi-15



____________________________
01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096

[BizmanJoe]

+ DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
+ SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
+ POLKAUDIO LSi-15



____________________________
01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096

Hmmm. Here's an example of a decent AVR being used a a pre... BTW, the 4308Ci had some very good reviews in itself and has a substantial amount of juice for a 5.1/7.1 system, but I guess you can't go wrong with a Sunfire powering the speakers instead. Such a waste of a decent amp section in the AVR, though... if the pre outs do not disable the built-in amps in the 4308Ci, I'd probably add some presence channels ;)

[Bernal]

Hmmm. Here's an example of a decent AVR being used a a pre... BTW, the 4308Ci had some very good reviews in itself and has a substantial amount of juice for a 5.1/7.1 system, but I guess you can't go wrong with a Sunfire powering the speakers instead. Such a waste of a decent amp section in the AVR, though... if the pre outs do not disable the built-in amps in the 4308Ci, I'd probably add some presence channels ;)

Using the Sunfire amplifier, bi-amplified mode, with 4308CI + LSi15 is to hear the angels sing.

[tonyb]

Using the Sunfire amplifier, bi-amplified mode, with 4308CI + LSi15 is to hear the angels sing.

I don't know if I'd go that far chief. Power does help,no doubt. But if you think the lsi 15's are at the top of the food chain,you need to get out more.:)

[heiney9]

Using the Sunfire amplifier, bi-amplified mode, with 4308CI + LSi15 is to hear the angels sing.

That's a huge stretch,,,,,,,IMO of course.

[Bernal]

I don't know if I'd go that far chief. Power does help,no doubt. But if you think the lsi 15's are at the top of the food chain,you need to get out more.:)

Thanks for your reply.
At the top of the food chain in my opinion this MBL; that my audio system in my main house.
In a simple form to comment on a very good setup and I like the result of the series "LSi 15" I have in my condo.

[JimKellyfan]

Does anyone here just run M 40s?

I believe I have you answered.
I first bought Monitor 60's and a PSW10 sub for my 2 channel set up.
Mind blowing, awesome, rocked my room, my house.
Then, I went to a new HT setup, and relegated the 60's and the PSW10 to mains, also buying a CS2 and Monitor 40's for surrounds.
My receiver, being ok, not great ( in both set ups ), the 40's were overkill for the surrounds.
I have since bought R150's for that job.
After that, I of course, put the Monitor 40's into my 2 channel set up, and got most of my mind blowing back. While not as potent as the 60's, they are good enough for the room size and still touch on mind blowing.
What will help my 40's will be when I put the PSW10 back on 2 channel back up duty. This will take me back to mind blowing. ( That and correct placement, as they are a bit too close to the floor right now as well ).
Summarized ?
40's are fine, get a sub to go with.
60's will really bring it on, but they too, need the sub.
I'd say to get the sub first, then decide to go with 60's or not.
Your room size and placement should also be of consideration.
My room is like 12-14 x 16-18 and 8 foot tall ( single level ranch ), guesstimate, really don't know, would have to measure. It has brick fireplace in the room, dining room table, and wood painted paneling from the 70's. The 40's are sitting on the fireplace base, but need to be picked up onto stands of some form.
Hope this helps.

[polkfan38]

Thanks. I am still on the fence about it. I may set up the 40s as mains and get 30s for surround duty. Until a month or so ago, I had no idea how little sound goes to the surround channels. With a sub, the 40s really shine!