Modify Oppo-83 or get a DAC?

[Erik Tracy]

I'm considering 'upgrading' my standard Oppo-83 for better two channel performance.

Option 1:
Send it off for the "SE" modification

Option 2:
Buy an external DAC from audiogon
(been looking at the Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto DAC2, and the PS Audio diii)

Has anyone else considered this?

I'm thinking that a good deal on a used external DAC will give the better results.

[polkatese]

Having a couple modded CDPs, I'd say go for the Oppo. Doubling the internal DAC or replacing it with a better DAC, IMO, made it more effective.

I am waiting in line for a Modwright Oppo mod, hopefully I'll have one by the end of the month.

[mantis]

I like option 1, go check out all they do on the upgrade.

[Erik Tracy]

Now that would be an interesting 'shootout'... [hint hint]

Take an Oppo83SE and an external DAC and with the same unit hooked up to a good integrated (or separates) - do a real time A/B to the SE modded sound vs a good external DAC.

My gut says a good used DAC would in the same price range as the mod would give the better results.

[Midnite Mick]

If I was going to spend money on the Oppo, I would just commit to it and send to Modwright.

[pearsall001]

I've been hashing over the same thought myself. But I'm going to hold off until the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 & DAC 2 are released (4/9 I believe for the 1 & another week behind is the 2). From what I've read the ESS DAC that they use is a step up from the modded Oppo. I'll wait for some reviews to start rolling in before I make up my mind. EJ & Cullen know a thing or two about how to deliver exceptional products.

[CCNJ]

I was looking at the PS Audio diii dac. I also heard good things about the stage III mod that Cullen does to upgrade the PS Audio dac. I wonder how the new Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 will stack up against the PS Audio modded dac? They are fairly close in price. I'll also wait for the reviews.

[Face]

http://audioaficionado.org/general-audio-discussion/2991-oppo-bdp-83se-versus-mcintosh-mcd500.html

[vc69]

Having a couple modded CDPs, I'd say go for the Oppo. Doubling the internal DAC or replacing it with a better DAC, IMO, made it more effective.

I am waiting in line for a Modwright Oppo mod, hopefully I'll have one by the end of the month.

I can't wait to hear what you think of the ModWright upgrade.

The SE upgrade was a marked improvement. Much better 2ch analog sound. I am very pleased with mine. Erik... try the SE upgrade and give it a several hours of burn in. After approx 50 hrs mine got smooth and silky.

[polkatese]

I know Dan Wright has a great reputation, so I went in blind and hope for the best, given my experience of modded CDPs from other reputable modders. So, we'll see what Dan can do. Mind you that I have no direct experience with stock Oppo. Here is what Dan will do to the Oppo:

Oppo BDP-83 MOD DETAILS:

Full Multi-Channel Mod with Master Clock upgrade:


•Upgrade of stock power supplies.


•Burson Clock upgrade!


•Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.


•Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub (SW) out.


•Damping mods to chassis and drive.

[Erik Tracy]

I know Dan Wright has a great reputation, so I went in blind and hope for the best, given my experience of modded CDPs from other reputable modders. So, we'll see what Dan can do. Mind you that I have no direct experience with stock Oppo. Here is what Dan will do to the Oppo:

Oppo BDP-83 MOD DETAILS:

Full Multi-Channel Mod with Master Clock upgrade:


•Upgrade of stock power supplies.


•Burson Clock upgrade!


•Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.


•Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub (SW) out.


•Damping mods to chassis and drive.



I've read some very good 'buzz' on the mods - but my emphasis is on 2-channel improvements. I see that part of the 83 upgrade is *nine* analog channels - hence my comment that for the same budget, an external *2* channel DAC might eek out a bit more performance.

I'm not in a hurry - maybe there will be some shootout comparisons later... ;)

[comfortablycurt]

I'll be following this thread with much interest. Whenever I'm ready for my next source upgrade, I'll be making the same decision.

[Erik Tracy]

I'm a bit confused on the Oppo-83 upgrades.

The Modwright website sounds like it offers an 'upgrade' to the SE - which I thought was already upgraded by NuForce?


So, who does the "SE"? Modwright or NuForce? And is there an upgrade to the upgrade????:confused:

And I don't see any offers to send in my existing 83 for upgrades, just a tradein credit towards a 'new' upgraded unit.

[vc69]

NuForce does all of the "SE" upgrades for Oppo.

NuForce offers their own upgrade from the SE to the SE-NuForce edition which takes the SE upgrade a step further.

The ModWright upgrade takes an SE you send them and mods it with all of their own stuff.

[Erik Tracy]

NuForce does all of the "SE" upgrades for Oppo.

NuForce offers their own upgrade from the SE to the SE-NuForce edition which takes the SE upgrade a step further.

The ModWright upgrade takes an SE you send them and mods it with all of their own stuff.

I'm all about 'hop ups' - coming from the dirt bike world.

I had a brand new Honda XR250 fourstroke enduro that I continually upgraded until I had one of THE trickest fourstrokes at the time (bored 280, cam polishing, custom exhaust, upside down forks when they were new, custom rear shock, sprockets, chain, handlebars, modified ignition, etc).

It was REAL trick, but admittedly, for all the money I spent I could have gotten a true motocross bike.

Kinda sounds the same here for an upgraded Oppo-83 to an SE that is then 'upgraded'.... money better spent on world killer DAC and be done with it?

[polkatese]

yep, vc69 is right.

here is a quote from Dan on Modwright SE upgrade:



Re: ModWright Modified Oppo BDP-83!
« Reply #129 on: 8 Dec 2009, 01:54 AM »
I will post feedback from our customers here once I compile some more. It is very busy around here.

The SE mods are the same price - for now - as for the non-SE and the same options are available. For now we are still installing the Burson clock as the clock for the DAC is still derived from this clock. The DAC also has a small crystal (clock) RIGHT near the DAC chip (2CH DAC).

The SE sounds exceptional, as does the non-SE and I would GLADLY compare our modified SE - even 2CH only - to the Nuforce mod. What we are doing is simply different. No disrespect to Nuforce or what they are doing. We are not just replacing components. We are REDESIGNING the analog stage and the different is HUGE.

Thanks,

Dan W.


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68675.120

[vc69]

Kinda sounds the same here for an upgraded Oppo-83 to an SE that is then 'upgraded'.... money better spent on world killer DAC and be done with it?

If I was to go that route, I would consider a really good transport as well. The -83SE I have is great, I love it. It's an all_in_one solution for me. But if I was feeding a killer DAC, I'd want a "world killer" transport mechanism. Believe me Erik, if you just want to step up, the SE is worth the money. If you are hunting giants, look elsewhere.

[Erik Tracy]

yep, vc69 is right.

here is a quote from Dan on Modwright SE upgrade:

[/B]

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68675.120

So from the modwright webpage it sounds like the upgrades of either a standard 83 or an SE is the same: $1295 for the multichannel mod (on either the standard or SE) and $950 for the stereo only mode (on either the standard or SE).

Seems like a waste of money to have bought an SE and then do the modwright upgrade if the end result of either a standard or SE is at the same point.

And for $950 - there are some *killer* used DACs on audiogon....just stirring the pot....:p

[vc69]

Well, the standard 83 uses Cirrus Logic DACs. The SE uses ESS Sabre 32bit DAC's. If you modded the standard -83 you would be missing out on what I believe to be superior DAC technology.

[Erik Tracy]

Well, the standard 83 uses Cirrus Logic DACs. The SE uses ESS Sabre 32bit DAC's. If you modded the standard -83 you would be missing out on what I believe to be superior DAC technology.

Ah...missed that...so the modwright upgrade "Upgrade of Stereo Left and Right analog channels only with our discrete FET-based circuit" does not include the Sabre DACs?

In that case, that means paying $899 for an SE then another $950 for the modwright upgrade.

So the delta for a 2-channel SE modwright would be $400+$950=$1350

Man - now you're getting into some serious used external DACs....

[polkatese]

Erik, agreed on your point: 83SE to Modwright to be less benefit.

on your next point, if your goal is strictly 2 channels, I think the question become a question of "implementation" and the synergy of the whole upgrade beyond DAC, such as upgraded PS (just using it as an example).

I have a Pioneer DV-563 Universal that was modded for 2 channels. I am pretty confident that adding an external DAC to it would not give me the same SQ result as what I have now. As always, YMMV and more importantly, what your ears and pocket would appreciate more.. :p

[vc69]

I am pretty sure that I will eventually do the 2ch ModWright upgrade. I am that pleased with this player. It really is a nice piece. External DAC's are all the rage, I know. But these Sabre DAC's are state of the art. Just saying.

[Erik Tracy]

I am pretty sure that I will eventually do the 2ch ModWright upgrade. I am that pleased with this player. It really is a nice piece. External DAC's are all the rage, I know. But these Sabre DAC's are state of the art. Just saying.

I appreciate the inputs - hey I love my 83 as well!

I want to 'downsize' on the number of devices and gizmos in my rig. Having the 83 and a dedicated CDP seems like there are opportunties to consolidate.

That's why I started this thread...but it sounds like for me to get the SE, I have to 'trade in' my standard 83 and take the 'hit'.

Or, maybe get the modwright 2-channel upgrade to my standard 83.

So...another question...how would an SE stack up against a standard 83 w/ the modwright 2-channel upgrade? :D

[madmax]

There are a lot of good DAC's out there for that money. I would consider a used Dac for the same cost the best "Deal" when it comes to money spent. Lets face it, electronics are worth about 50% of list when re-sold. The payback on the mod will be about $500 whereas the payback on the used DAC will be aout $950, or about as much as you paid.

Sound quality wise I'm not sure, it could go either way. I'd probably put my marbles towards the DAC. Tough question!
madmax

[steveinaz]

An external DAC would far out last a Disc transport mechanism; I'd get the standard Oppo and an external DAC. Just my 2 cents

If you're looking for a used Benchmark, get the USB model for its upgraded opamps.

[venomclan]

I wonder how the Oppo SE stands up against the Sony 5400ES.

The Oppo seems like a killer deal, but I agree with Steve, an external DAC would outlast a transport, mechanically and through upgrade cycles. The Dac would also allow use of a music server if you go that route.
Venom

[reeltrouble1]

I was able to sell off all the DAC's I had when I got a nice source player. When I used a lesser source the DAC was a requirement.

RT1

[phipiper10]

Who here buys anything with the intent on keeping it for the long term :)

Get the player now and then get a dac later or vice versa. It's never either or just a matter of when it's time for the "either" or the "or".

[Erik Tracy]

Who here buys anything with the intent on keeping it for the long term :)

Get the player now and then get a dac later or vice versa. It's never either or just a matter of when it's time for the "either" or the "or".

Well there is some truth to that...and...I'm such a slut....I bid/won on a Bel Canto DAC-2....more later.... :p

[reeltrouble1]

you beeeeatch have fun with it.

RT1

[steveinaz]

The Bel Canto is a nice unit. Good score.

[Erik Tracy]

The Bel Canto is a nice unit. Good score.

Yeah, did some research on it - seems like it has a good rep.

When I get it in - I plan on doing my own 'shootout':
* Cambridge 640c v2 vs Oppo-83 with DAC

I've already done the 640c v2 vs the standard Oppo-83 via analog outs on both - the 640c v2 wins for better dynamics and detail (that does not equate to 'brightness' rather more 'revealing' musical subtleties).

I can even do the 640c v2 vs Oppo-83 as transports with the pushbuttom feature on the Bel Canto DAC-2 for two different inputs.

But, I want to see/hear for myself if the Bel Canto can leap the Oppo-83 ahead of the 640c v2 - then I can downsize my system.

[Erik Tracy]

UPS just dropped off my Bel Canto DAC-2....let the death match begin! :D

[phipiper10]

Look forward to hearing the results.

[Erik Tracy]

Ok....some very initial listening results.

The Oppo via the Bel Canto DAC-2 now has the 'edge' SQ-wise over my Cambridge Audio 640c V2.

I played 2 identical copies of the CD of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" - manually sync'd at the same time. I like this CD because the mix is very clean and the sound is layered and spacious - great for A/B comparisons for sound staging, detail, pushing in and out of the sound layers.

Before, comparing the CDP and the BPD - the Cambridge CDP definitely had the better SQ: more detail and dispersion (NOT 'brighter'), more depth to the soundstage. The Oppo by itself seemed a bit dull with a 'flatter' soundstage front to back.

With the DAC-2 the Oppo is now just as detailed, just as good sound stage depth with a tad more focus (the instrument placement 'floats' better in front of the listening spot). The Oppo/Bel Canto combo is not as 'analytic' as the Cambridge - meaning it has a subtle warmer sound on the high end. The detail and openess is still there - just not as prominent.

More later....

[Bernal]

http://audioaficionado.org/general-audio-discussion/2991-oppo-bdp-83se-versus-mcintosh-mcd500.html

Thanks for the thorough review. Very informative.

[Erik Tracy]

Thanks for the thorough review. Very informative.

I'm confused...are you thanking Face for his review...or mine?

Or is this another Oppo applause? :p

[polkatese]

Nice Erik...! (I meant for your new DAC)...

[Erik Tracy]

Nice Erik...! (I meant for your new DAC)...

I'm liking the 'synergy'...the Oppo w/ the DAC is more....engaging....as far as the CD listening experience.....I'd liken it to a sweet, deep, complex wine.

[virtualdean]

I'm considering 'upgrading' my standard Oppo-83 for better two channel performance.

Option 1:
Send it off for the "SE" modification

Option 2:
Buy an external DAC from audiogon
(been looking at the Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto DAC2, and the PS Audio diii)
Has anyone else considered this?I'm thinking that a good deal on a used external DAC will give the better results.
i just bought an bdp-83se. I do believe that Oppo will let you trade your old one in on a 83se..
I hope so.

[Erik Tracy]

Ok....some very initial listening results.

The Oppo via the Bel Canto DAC-2 now has the 'edge' SQ-wise over my Cambridge Audio 640c V2.

I played 2 identical copies of the CD of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" - manually sync'd at the same time. I like this CD because the mix is very clean and the sound is layered and spacious - great for A/B comparisons for sound staging, detail, pushing in and out of the sound layers.

Before, comparing the CDP and the BPD - the Cambridge CDP definitely had the better SQ: more detail and dispersion (NOT 'brighter'), more depth to the soundstage. The Oppo by itself seemed a bit dull with a 'flatter' soundstage front to back.

With the DAC-2 the Oppo is now just as detailed, just as good sound stage depth with a tad more focus (the instrument placement 'floats' better in front of the listening spot). The Oppo/Bel Canto combo is not as 'analytic' as the Cambridge - meaning it has a subtle warmer sound on the high end. The detail and openess is still there - just not as prominent.

More later....

Well - I'm a dolt.

I had the inputs mixed up when doing my listening yesterday and was making backwards observations.....

Anyway....

First more description of the comparison setup:

1)Oppo BDP-83 via Signal Audio Digital Coax to the Bel Canto then AQ King Cobras to my Musical Fidelity A5 as my integrated amp.

2)Cambridge Audio 640c V2 CDP via AQ King Cobras (yes I have two sets) to my A5.

Loaded indentical CDs of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" into both players then manually sync'd them together.

I then did my best to 'level' match the two players via the Oppo remote - which has a volume control for the outputs.

For those that claim DACs and CDPs sound the same....get some q-tips and clean the wax out - they do. :D

The Oppo/Bel Canto combo had a different sound signature than just the CA CDP. The soundstage was more focused centrally, but did, imo - sound a bit 'forward'. Very clean, very precise sound - great detail.

The CA CDP painted a soundstage a bit more 'spacious' and was, in comparison, well...laid back on the high end.

And I will qualify that these are very minor differences - not night and day but gradations of subtlety.

I'd liken the sound differences to being in different music venues with different acoustics:
the Oppo/Bel Canto - an intimate cafe with a small stage
the CA CDP - a small music hall with a bigger stage

Another difference is in the bottom end. The Cambridge CDP has more low end grunt than the Bel Canto.

Some may say that means 'bloated' - I'm not entirely sure. But its a real sonic difference.

Then for giggles and grins - to see if the difference were due to the 'transport', I hooked up the Bel Canto to the CA CDP but left the analog outputs still hooked up so that the CDP was outputting out of both the Coax and RCA/Analog outputs. Then I was able to switch sources at the A5 to do A/B comparisons in real time.

Same observations - so I confirmed that the differences were due to the differences in the CDP DAC-analog outputs and the Bel Canto DAC.

I will have to hand it to Cambridge Audio - the 640c V2 is a very good CDP offering some very good analog circuits when compared to a +$1K (new) dedicated external DAC.

It really does come down personal preferences - some may prefer the sound of the Bel Canto. I will probably hang on to this...do more listening.

But for now, my dedicated CDP stays for 2-channel.

[phipiper10]

Sorry Erik, you lost me with regards to if you preferred the CA with or without the Bel Canto DAC connected.

And when you added the DAC to the CA did it then sounds like the Oppo with the DAC on it?

Thanks for clarifying, really curious about your findings.

Rich

[Erik Tracy]

Sorry Erik, you lost me with regards to if you preferred the CA with or without the Bel Canto DAC connected.

And when you added the DAC to the CA did it then sounds like the Oppo with the DAC on it?

Thanks for clarifying, really curious about your findings.

Rich

Sorry - I 'lost' myself too that first go round where I had my interconnects mixed up so when I thought I was listening to the Bel Canto DAC, I was still really listening to the Cambridge CDP.

I'm going to leave the DAC hooked up the Cambridge via Coax so that I can flip back and forth between the CDP analog outs and the DAC across various music sources. I need to spend more time with the DAC just to get a larger sampling of music.

But - after yesterday - I still prefer the Cambridge. Not because of any 'brigthness' or 'detail' but rather it has a slightly more expansive sound stage and more balance on the low end. The Bel Canto's sound stage is more of a 'beam' to the sweet spot and centralized w/ a slightly lighter bottom end.