dbalus, thanks for the review. Trust your ears/listening ability.
I used AQ Type 4 before switching to MIT Terminator 2's and there was a huge difference. I went from the T2's to Shotgun S3's and again a large difference.
We all hear and perceive our rigs differently so, it is what it is.
Atleast you tried them and gave them a chance.
P.s. I have always stated I will not chastise anyone for trying different cables in their rig and not determining a difference. Only those that are unwilling to even try it, but already have decided there is no difference in cables.
I appreciate the feedback, guys. I definitely went into this demo with an open mind, am honestly describing the experience I had, and am looking for your thoughts on why my experience wasn't different.
In regards to my testing methodology, I'd also like to point out that I had the Shotguns in my rig for ~10 days and then went back to my own cables. When I didn't notice a difference, I decided to spend most of a day doing the A/B swapping method as well.
At this point, I'm not in the "cables don't matter" club, but rather the "why didn't these particular cables make a difference in my system?" club. Regardless, thanks for not flaming me for posting an honest review :)
Well, you definitely have a nice rig---so the potential was there.
dbaldus: Maybe it was due to lack of that horrible thing called "Synergy"?
I noticed a MUCH bigger difference with the Shotgun SC's over the IC's in my rig (which was running EXp1 IC's and Audioquest CV-4 SC's at the time) myself.
I'm also running shotgun s3 cables in my rig and noticed a difference when the IC's and speaker cables were all shotguns. I've always asked myself did I hear a $2,000 difference?
Yeah, they're way too rich for my blood. Champagne taste, and beer money--that's my problem.
...and yes, I'm well aware they can be bought used---I've been doing this hi-fi thing for a few days.
IMO the cables should be the last piece to upgrade. Get your speakers/amp/pre/source all in line then do the cables.
That's my plan. I'm hoping a demo program like this still exists once I get my pre and source upgraded so I can try cables like these out again.
Originally Posted by leroyjr1
Well,,first off,, these could be the last cables I ever own.They just seemed to do everything right,,smooth,yet detailed without the harshness that some cables offer/present.You know how you can hear a system,,and you know,"this is it",, that is what these cables did for me.Warm and enticing.As others have said before,,the benefit is when you you them throughout,, IC's and SC's.They play very nicely with tubes.I found myself wanting to spend more time with them,,in summation,,one fine a$$ cable that seemed to finish up my rig.Good things cometh to he who waiteth!!!!
Nice review George. Straight to the point.
Hmmm.....not sure why the list isn't appearing in the first post. Anyway, I'll post it here.
Is there a minimum baseline equipment/speaker "spec" that would be needed in order to demo these cables?
I will let F1NUT chime in but I believe the answer to that is a resounding NO. As long as you provide your contact info and meet the other requirements there is not one for gear.
Originally Posted by Clipdat
I will however say whatever F1NUT says is the truth on this (in case I am wrong)
Just whatever is listed for "Requirements" in post #1.
Originally Posted by Clipdat
Hey, Jesse. I thought more folks would be up on the list. Kinda surprising with the few amount of folks that seem to be interested in checking them out. Anyhoo, I'm currently running the Transparent Reference IC's between the Dodd, Jolida and MF amp with the AQ CV-8's w/ the 72v BP upgrade for SC's and I'm open to trying these out if there are no objections. I believe you still have all of my contact information as nothing has changed there but I'd be happy to provide it all again if needed. Call me if you wish.
Just LMK bro'.
First let me say that anyone even curious about trying these cables needs to sign up - it's a no brainer!
Also, thank you Jessie & MIT for this opportunity and for supporting this demo.
Up front, I already own MIT interconnects & speaker interfaces (cables), as well as competitor products from Signal Cable, Nordost, Transparent, Monoprice, and Monster. I wanted to compare the new 3.3's to my S1 & S3 components. I also did a comparison to a complete Signal Cable Silver Resolution set up. I would have done more, but didn't have enough time with work & school.
Speakers: Magnepan 1.7
Amp: Carver M1.5t (rebuilt/upgraded by Hi-Tech Audio, 2011)
Pre-Amp: Cary Audio SLP 30
DAC: W4S DAC-2 w/ Audio-gd Digital Interface (V1)
Source: Apple Mac Mini, iCore 7, 2.7-GHz, Mountain Lion OS
Software: Pure Music (Channel D)
Music Selection - All Digital
All of the music I selected is Rock, but with a varying degree of "heaviness":
The Raven - The Alan Parsons Project; 16-bit / 44.1kHz FLAC
Tom Sawyer - Rush; 24-bit / 96kHz FLAC (HD Tracks 2012)
L.A. Woman - The Doors; 16-bit / 44.1kHz FLAC
Another Brick In the Wall (Part 1 & 2) & The Happiest Days of Our Lives - Pink Floyd; 16-bit / 44.1kHz FLAC
The End - The Doors; 24-bit / 96kHz FLAC (HD TRacks 2012)
Nightmare - Avenged Sevenfold; 16-bit / 44.1kHz FLSC
The Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove - Dead Can Dance; 16-bit / 44.1kHz / 256kbps AAC
1) MIT Shotgun S1 & S3
DAQ --> Pre: S1
Pre --> Amp: S3
Amp --> Speakers: S12) MIT Shotgun S3.3
3) Signal Cable Silver Resolution
4) MIT Shotgun S3.3
5) Signal Cable Silver Resolution
6) MIT Shotgun S3.3
I listened to config's 1-3 by myself and had a friend over for 4-6. She is very familiar with my system, so I had her listen to the new MIT's vs. Signal. I did what is referred to as an A-B-A test to see if her initial impressions of the MIT's repeated.
Results - Impressions
I did notice a slight difference between the new MIT's and older S1 & S3's. I'm not an audio engineer or expert, so my best way to compare is to just say it seemed different at some frequencies for some songs - I feel like the 3.3's have a slight edge.
The difference between the 3.3's and Signal Silver was more noticeable. I found the Signal's to have a degree of harshness the 3.3's didn't. My friend said there is a definite difference in sound. She didn't point out a harshness with the Signal's like I did, but she did prefer the 3.3's.
In all cases I found the 3.3's to have detail without harshness (this is a big deal for me). Some songs like The End & The Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove had a much better 3D like soundstage and slightly more detail than the Signal's.
I also want to say that I've read on this site about some having issues with MIT interconnects & W4S DAC's - this has never been the case for me.
I do like the 3.3's, but I'm not rushing to upgrade right now.
My friend has listened to my system throughout all of my different upgrades and said this wasn't much of a change in comparison to other things I've done. She specifically said it wasn't enough for her to get very excited over, because she's seen (heard) what other changes can do. The Signal's would be good enough for her, especially from a cost perspective. I don't share her opinion completely, because I really appreciate the detail of the MIT's without harshness. I want that 3D like soundstage where it sounds as if you could reach out and touch the instrument being played; the MIT's seem to contribute to that.
I'll admit to a preference of MIT products, but also have some criticisms. The products are well built, but the cables are a bit stiff & not as flexible as other brands, plus the network boxes take up space and they do mass-load connectors (if the boxes are unsupported); so they might drive some people with OCD a little crazy.
I don't think anyone starting out in this hobby should make cables like these their top priority. To me these are like the final touch that helps you get that last few percent out of your system - spend your money on speakers, amp, pre, and source first and then consider this level of cables. In the meantime, there are good midlevel cables out there that can be bought used & re-sold without too much loss on investment.
Good write up Shaun, It seems to be a common denominator that the MIT's bring "Detailed and Revealing" to the table, without being harsh or overly bright. A tough nut to crack for some cables.
I'm looking forward to this demo myself one day!
I wonder if any of the gain is diminished by not upgrading the SDA IC along with the 3.3. I very well could have missed it but I do not recall any on es review of an upgraded IC beyond what was already in place. Thought's?
That's not what this demo is about, nor does everyone trying these cables have SDA's, so let's keep it on topic. Please and thanks.
I sent you a PM, but I'll say it here too. For some reason MIT cables and Dodd pre amps don't like each other. Therefore, it would not be a good idea to test that again.
Sorry, at this time you do not meet the time requirement.
No problem! I am planning on sticking around the forum, so eventually I will have my chance to try out the cables! :biggrin:
Originally Posted by F1nut
Jesse I had no problems with my Dodd Pre with MIT's.
Hello, Larry. If I recall correctly, you had the Dodd ELP. I don't know if it makes much difference with regards to MIT and Dodd with the model I have. I've got the MLP preamplifier [the one Ted and George Daniels used to own]. I did get your PM Jesse. I just never responded. Really didn't know what to say. I do trust that if you have knowledge that I don't, there's no sense in wasting anybody's time. The Transparent Reference IC's work great with the MLP. In fact, they are the best cables I have heard in the rig to date. They really make the Musical Fidelity amplifier sing with the utmost of authority , while at the same time, finesse.
Basically, I trust Jesse. If he tells me that they don't match well with the Dodd, then I'll take him at his word. He hasn't steered me wrong yet. Well, with the exception of him preferring MIT *pokes stick at Jesse a couple of times* Hehe.
Yea. Good point. Sorry for the derail..
Thanks Jesse and MIT for the opportunity to try some very impressive cables and learn something along the way.
I joined the forum about a year ago and haven't attended any events, so no one really knows me from Adam. You can see my system is meager compared to most here, but I am very pleased with it at this point and hope I've reached a sort of plateau where I can be happy for a year or two. I was very curious to learn how much a lower end system like mine might benefit from a cable upgrade. Value is the primary factor in 95% of my purchase decisions, so my goal was to get a better picture of the cable cost/benefit curve by participating in the demo.
Source: Squeezebox Touch (Welborne PS)
Cable: MIT T3 coax
DAC: Arcam rDac
Cables: MIT EXP1 rca
Pre-Amp: Dared sl2000a (Telefunken 5965), Adcom GFP-750
Cables: MIT Proline xlr's
Amp: Emotiva XPA-2
Cables: MIT EXP2
Speakers: Polk SRS 1.2 (rdo's, rings, dynamt, armacell)
In order to avoid confusion, I did not use any other sources, speakers, or electronics until after the testing was completed. All tunes are flac, some are 24-96, and, wherever available, mfsl versions. Here's what I did:
1) Listened to several familiar songs in a demo playlist with existing cabling (EXP2's)
2) Installed the Shotgun S3.3 SC's and IC's
3) Listened to demo playlist for ~2 hrs, making notes on all
4) Listened to other music without making many notes
5) Following night - listened to assorted music ~2hrs, adding just a few notes as needed
6) Following few days - tried other sources, vinyl, tubes for ~ 1hr each night
Steely Dan / Aja /Black Cow - Background vocals much easier to discern individual voices. Voices seemed more natural & lifelike. Cymbals sparkle.
// Aja - Percussion like raps on the little wood thingies really pop. Metallic tinkles really shimmer. I'm feeling very giddy at this point hearing the system sound so good. Familiar songs sound new somehow. Sax solo seemed to be inside the room. Lower end seems to extend a bit lower than before. Cymbals sound amazing. Kettle drum (?) sounds true, more realistic.
Steely Dan /Gaucho / Third World Man - Less mid warmth but, but string texture on guitar seemed fuller with added detail.
Adele /19 / Make You Feel My Love - Voice, when starting a phrase & going lower with a bit of growly grain, sounds more detailed and organic.
Ortophonk / Massala Films / Han's Cock - LOW, muscular, tight, room-shaking bass. I was apparently liking it - I scrawled "Extra large funk for you! Cood gawd ya'll!"
Rodney Hunter / Hunter Files / Work That Body - Everything just seemed a bit smoother and more detailed. Lower bass extension. At this point I realized I had been moving, couch-dancing, tapping, whistling etc a whole lot. Really enjoying the music.
Fleetwood Mac / FM1968 / Long Grey Mare - Snare very realistic! Harp sounds a bit thin and harsh at times. Overall the sound was a bit too dry (not something I've noticed before). Disappointing as this is one of my all-time faves.
Fleetwood Mac / Blues Jam in Chicago / Horton's Take 1 - Separation and location is improved. Excellent guitar! Drums and bass are pushed way outside left to ~ 9:30 or 10:00. Sounds so good!
ABB /Eat A Peach / Mellissa - Rhythm guitar is detailed & sweet. Instruments are a bit easier to precisely place in the soundstage. Keys near the end sound truer somehow.
Earth Wind & Fire / All'n'All / Runnin' - Rhythm and keys stand out. Everything seems fast and more detailed. Smooth vocals. Dense sections are a bit clearer than before. Horn solo decay and syncopated percussion POPS! End section GROOVES!
Cracker / Kerosene Hat / Kerosene Hat - Noticeably bigger bass, more detailed guitar strumming. Wow! The band is right here in front of me. The whispers have never been this clear. In fact I didn't realize they continued for that long a stretch til now. Cymbal taps are crystal clear and just magical.
Linn Selektions Demo / Black Coffee - Keys are fantastic! Voice not too far forward, very smooth and organic. Lovely.
Elton John / Honky Chateau / Rocket Man - Less warm - very disappointing since this is a fave demo. Background vocals pop out better.
//Honky Cat - Keys are better, banjo a bit more prominent. Great detail.
Apples / Buzzin' About / Stack It Up! - Group vocals more discernible as individuals. Good punch. Bass line KICKS! Noticed toy piano (or xylophone) for first time.
Art Blakey / Caravan / Caravan - Drum intro excellent - when he moves to rim & cymbals, it's like the drum kit is in room with me. Unbelievably accurate instrument location. Horns' every nuance is revealed. Sax seems thin however. Drum solo amazing. Very engaging overall.
Eric Clapton / Slowhand / Lay Down Sally - Both guitars seem lighter on their feet. Less warmth - "prancing ponies" iso "wild thundering herd". Acc vocals more pronounced. I like this better overall, even though I'm usually a warmth addict. Better soundstage here too. Best I've heard this sound.
World Party / Goodbye Jumbo / Way Down Now - Opening too harsh. I think this is an example of revealing a poor recording even though this is remastered.
// Take It UP - Guitar so good. Better detail throughout. Improvement.
XTC / Apple Venus / River of Orchids - Amazing detail in water dripping & strings. Drips seem to linger 3-dimensionally in space.
As compared to MIT EXP2 speaker cables and lower level MIT interconnects on my system, the Shotgun S3.3's provided improved detail, more precise location of sources, improved bass extension, outstanding shimmer on cymbals & other UHF. Voices, drums, and other percussion seemed more organic. Even on my meager system, the improvement was easily noticed and not insignificant. And, although I am not likely to purchase these in the next year or two for this system, when I do start making wholesale upgrades, I am very likely to consider the S3.3's.
This is too funny....first the demo list disappeared from the first page for no reason, so I added it on this page. Now, it's back on the first page and has disappeared from this page. WTF???
Anyway, SDA1C and Slinger182 have been added to the list. Indyhog asked to moved down the list again.
With much regret, I have shipped the MIT's to their new temporary home. I want to thank Jesse and whoever else has been responsible for the Demo Offer. What a great way to try out a High End product in your own environment, with no pressure to buy.
I have declined taking part in the Cable Demo offerings in the past, as I was affraid of what might come of it. Knowing full well that cables DO matter, I was almost affraid of what I might experience. My Audio Fund always seems to be "tapped" and there was never enough cash to afford much of a cable upgrade.
I knew from the previous posts that the MIT cables were of good size, but I had no idea of just how effin' BIG these things were until I unboxed them...wow, I took a couple of pics just to show their masculinity. I REALLY liked the RCA connectors on the i/c's, the locking function of the barrels is a nice touch, have never used any connectors like these before...sweet.
The choice of terminals for the speaker wires is also a very nice touch, supreme versitilty. The term "You get what you pay for" comes into play here.
I have a simple two channel rig, A Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum Integrated, a Jolida JD-100A cdp for a source, pair of modded SDA 1C's and a newly restored pair of SDA 3.1TL's.
My current speaker wires are some Signal Cable Ultra and some Audioquest King Cobra i/c's. My room is pretty well treated and the imaging and the sweet spot are dead center.
I hooked up the MIT's, let the tubes warm up, grabbed a cool brew and selected some of my "go-to" music, the cd's that are the best of my small collection that shine. I was literally taken aback by what I was hearing, it was a jaw dropping moment for sure.
I can't say anything more about the MIT's that hasn't already been said by the previous members comments, but I can say that my rig has never sounded better. The MIT's have brought everything to the party, the imaging, clarity, precision, depth and width of the soundstage, it's all there in spades. And the Bass, clean and tight and well pronounced. I now know what "air" sounds like, and I liked what I was hearing. It's like the cables have pulled everything together and made a major improvement in the overall presentation, the same as a new piece of gear brings to the table.
btw, speaking of hearing, I am hearing impared, to the point I'm forced to wear hearing aids most of the time. But, I always remove them to listen to music, the aids have a very digital sound to them, I can't stand to listen to music with them in, I just have to turn up the volume a little on the amp to compensate. Even with my hearing issues, I was picking up on little things I had never noticed before. If a set of cables can do this me, I'm sure that anyone with "normal range" hearing could also hear improvements in every area.
The Shotgun 3.3's could very well be the last cable I would ever want or need in my set-up, the MIT's have shown me what my rig is capable of and what a "Really Good" set of cables can bring toward that thirst for Audio Nirvana that most of us crave. I have been saving for some time to purchase a new Vinyl front end, but I might have to postpone that one for some time later down the road...I can see some MIT's in the mix one day for sure.
Thanks again for this opportunity, I loved every minute of it.