There's been numerous studies done with wine. Same wine, different label, and people are absolutely convinced the label that looks like the more expensive one is clearly better tasting.
The placebo effect is real.
"You don't know how much you are missing in naturalness, detail, and focus until you replace your stock Ethernet cable with a good one like the Vodka."
Price is $250/meter
Eh Fox, you know the score. Those that have learned how to listen for a living are still suffering the placebo effect....according to some anyway.
What I would like to know is how does Audioquest know how the song is supposed to sound, did they write it no.
Therefore how oes one determine how exactly is a song supposed to sound exactly as the artist intended.
Did the artist use Audioquest cables and mics and Vodka cables?
We listen to music day in and day out sometimes critically but do we actually know exactly how it's supposed to sound, I'm guessing only the artist can verify if these Vodka cables actually do his music justice or if he hears it changeling things that he did not intend.
I'm only asking because I don't know, how do we know the "drastic" improvment the cable causes is what the artist music is missing and not just adding something into the music because they Audioquest think they are correct?
I saw DSkip posting about Tool I believe the song 10,000 day wings part 2' he said he now hears the thunder coming over head, when I listen to it I hear the thunder coming from a distance in front of me then as the song progresses it gets closer and closer till it raining and overhead, very cool..
Who's correct only Tool can answer that right?
Everybody is different and has certain preferences when they listen to music after all it's all in your head..
Oppo ships HDMI cables free with their BD players. What is the quality/brand of those cables?
Just looked at Oppo's site. No brand listed on their HDMI cables. The cable that is included with their players sells for 10.00 separately in their accessories section. Logic: Being that Oppo is a world renowned BD manufacturer does it make sense that they would include a HDMI cable that would be sub-par to the quality standards needed for their players?
You didn't answer the question which required only a simple "yes" or "no" answer.....or, possibly "maybe" if you weren't sure, lol! For simplicities sake let's put it like this: If you were the CEO of Oppo would you purposefully make the decision to include an audio accessory that you knew would compromise the audio/video capability of your products? (yes or no?) If you were the CEO of Mercedes would you purposely make the decision to put tires on your automobiles that you knew would compromise the quality of the ride? (yes or no?) I do believe that Oppo knows more about cables, and that Mercedes knows more about tires than you or I? Do I believe that generic anything is as good as it gets? Funny! Is this a trick question? Lol! Do I believe that world renowned high profile manufacturers of anything know when it is not an improvement to include a more expensive component? Give the choices of answering "yes" or "no" I answer.....hmmmm? Let me think on that and get back to ya! Lol! Goodnight Everybody!
Do you think NASA would put the safety of their astronauts in question? I mean they use the best quality parts at the lowest possible cost.
Manufacturers like Oppo and Mercedes are in the business of making money. Mercedes, like every other auto manufacturer outside of the ultra-niche market boutique brands will always use the best possible compromise of cost, reliability and performance whether it be tires or belts or brake pads or any other wear part for that matter.
Same goes with Oppo. They are shipping a product that can be used out of the box. There is no need for their cables to be the best of the best. But if the customer so chooses, they can swap out the cheap cable in the box for something "better". Just like the guy who just bought the S600 can decide he would rather have the Pirelli PZeros vs the stock tires the car shipped with.
Whatever manufacturers include with their products doesn't mean it's the best available. They have profit margins and price points to meet. If a power cord didn't matter, every manufacturer would hard wire them and not go to the expense of adding the ability to swap them out.
Car tires are the same. Mercedes puts a good all around tire on their cars. Best...no, because again whats best is subjective. Maybe you like a softer ride, or a stiffer one for taking corners.
Audio is a subjective process so it makes sense to let people have the ability to pick or taylor their sound to their liking.
But that's a poorly worded question, IMO. A straw dog, of sorts, by the use of the perjorative word "compromise".
The CEO of Oppo has many considerations when designing a product for sale. It all boils down to what is the threshold level for "Good Enough" to maintain brand integrity, sustain sales, and still make an acceptable profit.
The CEO of Colby/SoundDesign/Magnavox has a different threshold, IMO.
"Did it catch on fire when you plugged it in ? No ? Good !".
And the market they target knows and/or doesn't care about the level of performance they get with that brand.
Pure price point. Is it cheap ? If "Yes", then the threshold level has been met.
Oppo, targets an audience with a little fatter wallet.
They know and expect a higher level of performance, to a certain degree based upon brand recognition.
Price point and performance are both considerations at this level.
The threshold level is higher.
Moving up the food chain, the threshold level rises dramatically in price and to a diminishing degree, IMO, performance.
Absolute performance is the determinant at this level, with price being almost a side note.
The threshold is much higher.
The CEO of Oppo determines where a product will fall between these two extremes. When successful, he is able to meet his target audience's performance expectations and price point while sustaining acceptable corporate profits.
So, in all aspects and all ways, the CEO of Oppo daily makes "compromises" that he knows affects the quality of his products. His job is to insure that the "Good Enough" threshold for the Oppo brand is met.
Yes. See above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devlon
I should certainly hope so (although there are exceptions here on CP in both cases)Quote:
Originally Posted by Devlon
I also know, however, that they have to know more about the ENTIRE manufacturing/sales process and the necessary art of "compromise" that is involved than some of us. (SEE ABOVE ... AGAIN)
Well, when you get off the fence post, let us know your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devlon
In fact, you outlined my exact point in your previous post. The NASA example being that the shuttles were built by the lowest bidder. Meaning they met certain standards and at the lowest possible price point. Not too much different from the balancing act that consumer manufacturers make when bringing products to market every single day.
Ok, ok I never particularly liked Merry-Go-Rounds, so give me some advice here, lol. What is hard for me to understand is when on both the $10 generic HDMI cable and the 130.00 HDMI Cable (Audioquest Chocolate) state very similar info that says they support 3D Technology, 4K, Ethernet Channel, Audio Return Channel, 1440p and 1080p FullHD Resolution, Transfer Rates of At Least 10.2 Gbps / 340 MHz, 48-Bit Deep Color, HDCP Compliant, and True HD-Dolby 7.1 , etc. What difference will I hear and see on the cable that's 120.00 more? At what price point does the law of diminishing returns zero put? I am willing to try as an experiment in buying just one HQ HDMI cable to see/hear what the difference is. I prefer not to spend 120.00 just to see though unless it makes that much of a difference. Which cable/price point upgrade do you guys think will give me the best audio/visual difference for the money?
zero out I meant to say
The biggest reason I went to Audioquest Forests ($60 for the 3m cable and $28 each for the 1m ones) is materials.
The cheap cables I had (even the ones with the "gold plated" ends) were all tin or steel conductors.
The Audioquest are copper.
For me, it was peace of mind more than anything. Especially as often as I switch out gear it seems. Hehe.
I shamelessly use a no name 25' HDMI from cabletrain.com only cost me 30 bucks. Been working flawlessly for 3 years. Staying blissfully ignorant saves me lots of coin!!
Also, comparing the two HDMI cables above. (As I stated earlier in the thread) there is a MINIMUM level of standards that need to be met to have the HDMI cable meet all the cable specifications you listed above (4K, deep color, 3D, etc.etc.etc) but the more expensive cable above is potentially able to meet and greatly exceed these minimum levels. This cable excels because of superior components (including metal(s), dialectric(s), geometry, build quality, etc.) and this is the same reason the cable costs more. It has superior components in it compared to the cheap cable. Also, the more expensive cable took more money to design.
I run Cat6 wire whenever possible. Is a chunk of Cat6 worth $250/meter? Not likely. Is a chunk of cat6 going to transmit a cleaner signal (and therefore not required to retransmit based on tcp/ip standards - read slower data rate) than cat5. Yep. That you could potentially "hear". TCP/IP would not retransmit bad packets as often (or at all) and you should get a better analog signal as it is getting to the opamp in the correct order quicker.
And F1's Kool-aid is some of the best kool-aid I've ever had.
I have heard differences in many types of cables. I can only reason it would be possible to hear/see differences in ALL cables. That doesn't mean every person in every scenario with every cable will hear a difference, but to my ears it has been possible more often than not. The best way to find out is to try it for yourself.
"TCP/IP would not retransmit bad packets as often (or at all) and you should get a better analog signal as it is getting to the opamp in the correct order quicker."
Wow, it sounds like a description of jitter? I never thought about that outside of audio transmission