The cables' topology is probably as important as the materials used--this is often over-looked.
There is differences and anybody can tell sometime only very sublte but other times its drastic.
I am not trying to dispute if there is a difference, just curious as to why there would be a difference.
Hell I can't even hear the beeper tell me when the laundry is done unless I am within 10 feet of it, yet my girlfriend can hear it at the other end of the house.
Steveinaz, what do you meen by "topology"?
If you want to try a cable that has a different sound to it.
They have a low impedance, to match your speaker's impedance. Make sure you have a high current amp though, a receiver or tube amp may not fair well with this cable.
I run the AG2's in my 2 channel setup. IMO, they have great highs and lows, but aren't to be paired with a bright sounding speaker. For a warmer sound, try the copper HT Flatwire or MI cables.
FWIW, this was not a move to a more expensive wire, or even something new, so there's no psychology involved. I think I paid about $1 a foot for the Canare and I got the Audioquest used and unterminated (and cheap) from a fellow Polkie. Both have been sitting around the house for a couple of years and have been in and out of the system. There are some obvious differences. The Audioquest is a larger gauge and has a ton more dielectric material. I'm sure this has something to do with it. In other words, I am not just comparing two hunks of copper.
The Canare always seemed a little 'tizzy'. The Audioquest has clarity. The Canare seemed to separate instruments better but they sounded dis-jointed I guess. The Audioquest doesn't throw out as large of a soundstage but everything sounds more coherent, together, musical, toe-tapping...not dis-jointed and tizzy. The Canare didn't sound nearly as bad on some recordings. I can't really explain what's going on. My wire lengths are only around 7 ft, I'm using relatively high-efficiency 8 ohm speakers and a good 50wpc tube amp that's good down below 4 ohms. At that wire length, supposedly there shouldn't be a difference, but there obviously is.
When I said people who demand that there is no difference are uninformed it wasn't meant as an insult anymore than them telling me it's in my head. I fail to see the difference. :rolleyes: That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :cool:
My reality is reality.
There are three critical elements to a cable; the conductor, the geometry of the conductor, and the connector. Since our system is little more than a glorified collective group of metals used to pass along an electrical signal, you bet that the composition of metals that interlink components will have an audible impact.
To lightly touch on a few questions raised by Mule;
Incorrect. One of the most common assumptions people tend to make is that every specific element that is mined shares exact similarities after modifications in a factory/lab. This simply is not the case. There are different purities of copper. These grades are typically based upon the volume of crystal within each copper strand/block. You have industrial copper, OFC copper, PCOCC copper, directional PCOCC copper, stranded, solid core, threaded and so on.Quote:
Copper is copper is copper, right?
Electrons ‘bounce’ around the metal and thusly pick up and transmit anything they encounter. The audio signal travels slow enough to hit well into the ‘core’ of the conductor. What you may be thinking of is the video signal, which transmits faster (typically in the megahertz range), subsequently causing it to travel more along the surface of the conductor.Quote:
The electrons are supposed to pass on the surface of the wire as opposed to the core so I understand that the same gauge of wire with more strands theoretically should have less resistence, but can this make a difference and how does this make a difference in the end result of speaker sound?
Using a thicker gauge conductor gives you advantages in terms of conductance and resistance. Running even el cheapola 12 gauge wire from lows should create an immediate improvement over 22 gauge lamp cord. The differences will likely be an improved sense of scale and low end authority. This is due to the above advantages. The downside however is that using thicker gauge wire creates greater inductance and can even create an impedance mismatch between your amplifiers and speakers (in severe cases). In many instances, you will notice these effects will cause a slight loss in your systems high end extension and bass resolution.
Gold is a fantastic conductor, but it too is not without issues. First and foremost, it is extremely expensive to produce, so much so, that you rarely see it being used in speaker cable applications. When you see high purity gold in audio, it’s almost always used in interconnects and solder. Because costs limit it to thin gauge, and because the metal is so soft, when used with the wrong connectors- it can lose a sense of refinement at frequency extremes. It’s also worthy to note that there are a number of RCA’s that do not use copper. Your right however, eventually the signal will run back into a copper conductor. The general idea is to maintain the integrity of the signal during the critical stage of linking components. High purity metals are the go to choice because not only can they pass that information more reliably, but in many cases, they just sound better.Quote:
Gold is a better conductor, but at some point you will have to go from copper to gold, How does it make a difference going from gold to copper at a banana or at the post, sooner or later there is going to be a connection between gold and copper.
Hell, we haven’t even begun scratching the surface of hybrid designs using multiple conductors, the multitude of rca designs, general geometries, shielding, the works. There’s a lot to it, and just like anything else, you can’t buy a ritzy cable and expect it to transform your system. To make the right choice, you really should be intimately familiar with the topology of your system, and what cable design would best suit it. However, that can be a lot of work. For those that are wanting to keep it simple; I’d encourage anyone with a credit card to scrounge around for companies that offer generous 30 day money back trial periods – bring in a few cords that use various materials and vastly different topologies and have some fun! The only time I would ever discourage anyone from conducting these tests is if the bulk of your system can be purchased at Circuit City or Best Buy. I encourage anyone to graduate beyond cheap components before entering cable territory and passing judgment.
I hope this helps! Good luck, and have fun!
Honestly, I don't understand how you got "purity of copper has little to contribute" out of the above post. I said the exact opposite. And yes - diameter certainly plays its role as well.
To go solid or not.
I have heard and read many different reviews on both sides of the fence about solids. I have taken the advise, of some peers here, and went solid copper core RG59 coaxial. But I notice that in terms of "speaker" wire, stranded is best.
Confusing..... IC's work better with solid core copper, but speaker wire works best with stranded copper? Of corse if going stranded, it should be the same solid copper as a solid core?
Thanks zero, for the relatively simple explanation. Like sami I thought a larger "dirty" conductor would do the same job as a smaller "clean" conductor. After reading the definition of "inductance" It seems in simple terms that the electrons in a clean condutor have a more direct path and be better responsive to current changes.
AAAhhhh, something just occured to me, this would be why bi amping speakers and setting crossover frequencies at the amp would produce better sound. The wire would have less frequency change and thus less inductance ??!!
The beautiful laws of physics..
It's the old adage of "You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Throwing in 'more' conductor will not magically match a genuinely better metal. In most situations, the purist conductor will nearly always yield better results.
The take on inductance sounds like something straight out of a dated EE book. Everything about the conductor and its shielding will have a dramatic impact on the cables inductance. You say its not audible. I disagree. I'd also say its a safe bet that neither one of us will walk away with our minds changed on the subject. Chalk this one up to the "lets agree to disagree" files, or as Stephen Colbert would say; "I respect your right to be wrong". :p:D
Repeat with a cable that you know doesn't sound as good and record the results.
I would say that I could probably not hear the difference, especialy since most music I listen to is mp3 or wma and half of that was probably made in a basement with a computer and samples of old vinyl.
Its just that if someone says somethings better I like to know why its better. I can now understand why its better even if I can't hear that it is better.
The higher the resolution of one's format recording, synergy and gear, the more apt one is to hear a change in the sound.
Everything makes a difference.
That said, dragon's first hand experience is the first testomony to speaker cable I've read and agree with. Now dragon didn't state that the speaker cable sounded better, just that the old cable was a total pain in the ass to handle. Can't argue that!
I like solid on speaker wires too. I have AQ star Quads with 4 solid conductors. They work great. I use them on the lows of my speakers, and I use my silvers on the highs. I have both the DBS, and none DBS versions of the AQ star quads. The DBS is definitely better. Not worth over twice the price, but better. And yes I laughed at the though of having batteries on my cables. Then I tried them.
At least someone's paying attention :rolleyes:
I'm happy with romex which doesn't move once you get it bent (sculpted) just right. I don't have the urge to try anything else unless someone is donating something or starting up a new cable swap thread.