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  1. #1

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    Default Which sub would you choose?

    Polk PSW202
    10" diameter
    40Hz - 200Hz
    50 watts RMS
    100 watts dynamic

    Polk PSW404
    10" diameter
    25Hz - 180Hz
    200 watts RMS
    450 watts dynamic

    Velodyne CHT-12
    12" diameter
    25Hz - 120Hz
    170 watts RMS
    400 watts dynamic

    I'm planning on upgrading my Polk PSW202 subwoofer which I received for free during the Polk promotion. I know that SVS is superior but I don't want a cylindrical sub and I am looking for a fairly small box sub instead. I've narrowed the field down to the Polk PSW404 and Velodyne CHT-12.

    My main problem with the PSW202 is the frequency range only goes down to 40Hz. The two subs above go to 25 HZ. I use my system for 80% movies and 20% music and my room size is 14' X 16'.

    If I upgrade, will I hear or feel a difference, or am I wasting money?
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  2. #2

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    Default

    If it were my money I would go with none of those options and spend a little more to get an Adire Audio Rava sub ($399 + shipping). Although I haven't heard one I've read TOO many good things about the Shiva driver used in the sub. All the DIY people using the driver can't be wrong!

    I have the PSW 450 and it's a good sub for the $200 I paid for it, but I don't think I'd buy another Polk sub. There are too many other good ones out there for the same money, especially if you can do the DIY route.

    Rava Sub

    Reviews of shiva driver that is used in the Rava sub:

    also check out the Sub Kits (if you have the patience and the time) from parts express that's supposed to be pretty damn good also:

    I'm guessing both of these subs will crush the polk subs but I'm not sure about the Velo...

    just my .02

    I'm sure Dr. Spec will chime in. he's the bass/sub expert on the forum...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15

  3. #3

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    Default

    jkratzer,

    Sounds like you're in the same boat I'm in. You got some vested cash at CC but you're not happy with sub performance so you're looking at doing the trade in. I'm holding my breath for the PSW808 that is supposed to be coming out soon. Just hope CC will pick up the line before I lose the chance to upgrade. As for your quote on specs, the full range is just another spec. What you really need to look at is the -3dB cut off frequency which is 35Hz for the 404. I've got the 404, and although it's a nice sub, it has a heart attack attempting to reproduce anything below 32Hz. At least the CHT-12 goes down to a true 25Hz @ +/- 3dB.
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....

  4. #4

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    Default

    TonyPTX,

    Since I got the PSW202 free on promotion, I actually don't have any money invested in my current sub but I thought I could used its value to trade up if CC would let me.

    I've seen the -3 dB freqency ranges you mentioned in specs but I've go no idea what this is all about. Can you explain?

    Where's Dr. Spec when you need him!
    Last edited by jkratzer; 05-21-2003 at 06:22 PM.
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  5. #5

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    Default

    tryrrthg,

    I've been thinking about checking out what Parts Express had in the way of subs. I live about 25 minutes away from Parts Express. Since I am within driving distance, I purchased my interconnects, speaker cable, and banana plugs from them when I originally hooked up my home theater. They have a nice showroom. The 10" Titanic sub looks good.
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  6. #6

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    jkratzer,

    do you live in Ohio? I'm in Columbus. I've been wanting to check out parts express for a while but have never made it over there...

    I would think the Adire Rava sub would best the parts express sub since it is a 12" driver vs the 10" from the parts express kit... both are good subs from what I've read.

    good luck!
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15

  7. #7

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    Default

    Originally posted by tryrrthg
    jkratzer,

    do you live in Ohio? I'm in Columbus...
    Yes. Nice to meet a fellow Ohio audiophile. I'm in Mason, OH, which is a northern suburb of Cincinnati. Parts Express is in a southern suburb of Dayton, which is 21 miles north right up I-75.
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  8. #8

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    Default

    Just buy my polk 404 and be done with it :)
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC

  9. #9
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    Default

    jk,
    The good Doctor is out, so it is my duty to point out that SVS makes boxes, too.
    http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb1_isd.htm
    At $599 + S&H, it's right at the MSRP of the CHT-12, but gets you down to 22 Hz with 320 w behind it into 4 ohms...

    As to your +/- 3 db question… the specs reflect the sub’s frequency limits.

    To determine the frequency response of a driver, its output is measured in decibels (db), the most common unit of sound pressure level (spl), across a frequency range that is broader than what the driver can reproduce. At the upper and lower frequency limits of the driver the spl simply rolls off. When the spl rolls off by 3 db, a noticeable reduction in volume, it is taken as the limit of the driver. How level a driver’s spl output is between these limits is a measure of its "flatness".

    While no driver is perfectly flat across the range of frequencies it can reproduce, and there can be peaks as well as valleys, any good driver will be easily be inside +/-3 db within the limits of its frequency range. Many will be well within that range and some within +/- 1 db…. very flat.

    Must note that the specs are based upon anechoic measurements, meaning they are done in rooms treated to eliminate sound reflections. The reflections, or echoes, might otherwise reinforce, or cancel, the driver’s direct sound wave at the measurement location. Since you don’t listen in an anechoic room, your results may vary… This gets into sub placement and other issues, but save them for later.

    Hope this last bit helped, since the link was bound to muddy things up a bit.

    BTW, native Clevelander here, so between you, tryrrthg and I, we’ve got a pretty good chunk of OHIO covered… You ever ridden Son-of-the-Beast?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner

    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

  10. #10

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    Default Ohio

    I have Fairfield Township covered. Maybe we could have an Ohio Polk get together sometime.

    Danny

  11. #11

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    Default

    Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

    I've been to the following:

    www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

    www.audioencounters.com in columbus

    www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

    www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

    there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?



    Tour2ma,

    Where are you at in TX? I got my center channel from Audio Systems in Austin. Nice store. Got to visit it while on vacation visiting friends. That's where I fell in love with Dynaudio!
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15

  12. #12

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    Default

    Originally posted by tryrrthg
    [B]Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

    I've been to the following:

    www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

    www.audioencounters.com in columbus

    www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

    www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

    there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?
    In Cinci, I like these:

    www.audibleelegance.com - B&W speakers; B&K, rotel components

    Sound Waves - Polk, Paradigm speakers; Denon, Pioneer Elite components - don't know url
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  13. #13

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    Default

    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    jk,
    As to your +/- 3 db question…

    ...You ever ridden Son-of-the-Beast?
    Thanks Tour2ma. I understand the +/- 3dB issue now.

    Yes, I have ridden the Beast and Son-Of-Beast rollercoasters at Paramount's Kings Island. I like the Beast better because it is less harsh. The Son-Of-Beast has tighter turns and at 70 mph it can get rough! One of these days I will get up your way to try the awesome coasters at Cedar Point.
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  14. #14
    Old School
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    Default

    try,

    Once upon a time Audiocraft was THE place to go in Cleveland, AR, McIntosh, Thorens, Shure/ SME, KLH... but just checked their website and, sigh, they've gone a little BB/CC-ish.

    I'm Gulf Coast, but love Austin and will be heading there later this year... right Russ?

    jk,
    Glad the write-up helped. What do you think of the SVS box?

    I rode the Beast multiple times annually starting the year it opened for a few years. Ex-In-laws lived in Cinci. Haven't been there since Son... was built.

    Cedar Point... great old park. I have yet to ride Millenium Force and now they've built "Top Thrill Dragster"... :D... Maybe next year I'll get there.
    http://www.topthrilldragster.com/pub...es/thrill/ttd/
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner

    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

  15. #15

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    Default

    Originally posted by tryrrthg
    [B]Any of you guys know of any good audio shops in Ohio?

    I've been to the following:

    www.progressiveaudio.com in columbus (one of the best shops in the country, or so I've read).

    www.audioencounters.com in columbus

    www.genesisaudio.com in columbus

    www.audio-etc.net in Dayton

    there's one in Cinci that I'd like to get to, you guys know of any others?
    Hey, do any of those shops sell Polk?

    I was at Sound Waves today here in Cinci and got a chance to sample some LSi7's and an LSiC for the first time. I must say they sounded excellent with music, better than I thought they would for their size. Do the LSi's use the same silk tweeter as the RTi series or do they use another material? The LSiC uses smaller midwoofers than my CSi40 but it sounded good.
    My 7.1 setup consists of:
    Denon 3803
    Panasonic DVD
    RTi70s front
    CSi40 front center
    RTi28s side surround
    FXi30s back surround
    PSW202 Subwoofer - Hey, it's my first sub!
    RCA 46" 4:3 RPTV

  16. #16

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    The LSi uses a completely different tweeter, a ring radiator. More info is on hompage. The LSiC doesnt have the punch that the CSi40 does, IMO, but it is a small amount better than the CSi30. They have same size drivers, just ported differently w/ addition of ARC ports.

    Don't get me wrong, the LSIC is sweet and has some ass, just the CSi40 covers more surface area, and has more hair.

  17. #17

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    Hey, do any of those shops sell Polk?
    I'm afraid not. Just about everything that Progressive has would stomp all over Polk, except for maybe the lower end B&W's. They are a HIGH end shop. Wilson Audio, Krell, Theil, B&W, ProAc. If you get a chance I HIGHLY recomend you go for a visit just for fun. It is INSANE in there. I went with a buddy of mine and we were bringing down the house with their set up upstairs. Wilson Audio Watt Puppy's with Spectral amps, and a $30,000 CD player from dCS. That system costs more than the house I grew up in. But it sounds so amazing! Well worth the time to come check it out!

    The other shops are more of the lower high end. Paradigm, Mirage, Denon, Marantz, Rotel, Arcam. Still great stuff, just not the murchandise that Progressive has...

    the shop in Dayton has some good stuff, but I thought the guy that worked there was a jerk...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15

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