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  1. #1

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    Default Shopping for a pre

    So the next step in my journey for audio bliss is to find a nice pre with ht bypass for music. Im wondering what kind of a difference a nice preamp will make compared to my pioneer vsx21 My budget is under 500. I have been looking at the parasound 2100 but I am really interested in tubes.
    Any recomendations, or anyone have experience with the parasound 2100??
    All my current equipment is in my sig.
    Thanks in advance
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  2. #2

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    It will make a huge difference. If you're looking to get your feet wet with tubes and to fit your budget, this is a very nice piece, well built and when you get rid of the Chinese tubes it sounds fantastic.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dared-SL-200...item3cac04e2ac

    I continue to be blown away at how good it sounds and that's no small feat.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #3

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    Hey Heiney, that's quite the pre for not allot of coin, are just the tubes chinese, or is the whole thing made there?

  4. #4

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    heiney, does it have a ht bypass? and what would good tubes run me? Im REALLY interested in that! Looks awesome!
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by carvcom View Post
    Hey Heiney, that's quite the pre for not allot of coin, are just the tubes chinese, or is the whole thing made there?
    Whole thing is made there. I have 3 Dared pieces and they are among the nicer built Chinese pieces. This pre responds very well to tube rolling. My Dared has Nichicon caps for the power supply and pricey Auricaps for the few areas that need coupling caps.

    This is a nice pre because it's a very simple design, short signal paths, it's basically a line level class A pre-amp. 2 inputs and 2 outputs. I was as surprised as anyone on the build quality and sound for not a lot of coin. They do come up used for sale and then they are an even better bargain.

    The importer from Naperville has been doing this awhile and you get a stateside warranty.

    Another CP member Keiko bought one of these from the same guy and is thrilled with his purchase too.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  6. #6

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    I have both a parasound 2100 and a Golden Tube Audio SEP-1 which is only a single tube in the unit and have been comparing them back and forth. The SEP-1 does not have an HT bypass. There is also the anthem model pre that has HT bypass and is a tube pre, which runs around 600-700 used.
    I enjoy my 2100 and really don't have any complaints with it. It has a phono section, even though not the greatest it has one, as well as some other items I like on it.
    Does it sound the same as the SEP-1 no, the tube does give it a different sound. However I'm going to be changing out the tube sometime soon as well as making a comparison with both when I get 15TL's to use as the main 2 channel speaker.
    2 Channel-
    Soundlab M3PX
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    heiney, does it have a ht bypass? and what would good tubes run me? Im REALLY interested in that! Looks awesome!
    No HT bypass...........it's a simple, line level pre w/2 inputs and 2 outputs so you can run a sub if you need to.

    It uses 12AT7's (ECC81 European designation) and a 5Z4P for the rectifier (turns AC into DC). The rectifier makes a huge difference in sound as well. You can use a 5Y3 or 5V4 as well in the rectifier position.

    Some of the hardcore guys laugh at this Dared (though they have never heard it), but I'm telling you after spending a year with it, this is a very nice sounding unit and it's built well too. I didn;t expect to like it so much as I was just getting my feet wet as well.

    It will be staying for awhile.............it sounds that good.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 04-20-2010 at 11:58 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  8. #8

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    http://www.stereotimes.com/amp040306.shtml

    Just to get your juices flowing :)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  9. #9

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    Wow, you are making me want to buy it and not look back. I guess switching the ICs between the pio and dared wouldnt be a big deal. So the tubes it comes with are junk?
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  10. #10

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    Im currently using a ps3 as my audio server and cd player. What would be the best way to hook it up to the dared? Im using hdmi to the pio now.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    Wow, you are making me want to buy it and not look back. I guess switching the ICs between the pio and dared wouldnt be a big deal. So the tubes it comes with are junk?
    Pretty much, but that can be said for a lot of tube gear. But Chinese tubes are crap. There is such a difference it's not even funny. Nice thing about 12AT7's is they are fairly reasonable.

    If you decide to get this I'll hook you up on the cheap with a good pair of 12AT7's from my stash and point you in the right direction for a nice sounding, inexpensive rectifier. I did the same for Keiko and Daboyz here on the forum.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    Im currently using a ps3 as my audio server and cd player. What would be the best way to hook it up to the dared? Im using hdmi to the pio now.
    RCA's...........also take your time if you want, these do come up FS used quite often and Joe will still be selling units on Ebay for awhile. It also responds quite well to power cord upgrades.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  13. #13

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    My ps3 has hdmi, optical, and ethernet. It has another connection that looks like a large usb. No rca.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  14. #14

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    Thanks for the info Hieney, I'm not a fan of chinese anything, but, it might be a good way to get a start in the tube world without taking out a second mortgage.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    My ps3 has hdmi, optical, and ethernet. It has another connection that looks like a large usb. No rca.
    may have to get an external DAC then using the optical output.
    HT - game room
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  16. #16

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    it comes with one but I dont think it has a optical, just rca and a usb.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    My ps3 has hdmi, optical, and ethernet. It has another connection that looks like a large usb. No rca.
    With your current set-up you will have an issue no matter what 2ch preamp you use.

    May want to look into setting up a seperate 2ch rig or you'll have to be hooking and unhooking things, etc.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bopicasso View Post
    My ps3 has hdmi, optical, and ethernet. It has another connection that looks like a large usb. No rca.
    http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-...1784362&sr=1-2

    This was recommended to me here and it's worked fine. I bought mine at Gamestop. A little cheaper than a DAC.

  19. #19

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    Thanks Psovlsk.
    Heiney, I wish I could afford more than 1 system. Plus I dont have a convienent spot in my house for a second setup. In the next house I will have a 2ch rig and a seperate home theater setup. But thats a few years away.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  20. #20

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    It's been a while since I hooked up the ps3 with analog ICs. IIRC, there is a sony AV plug in the back that accepts either a component dongle or a composite dongle. If you use composite, it will have the regular yellow video, red/white audio analog connections.
    Last edited by cheddar; 04-21-2010 at 04:18 PM.

  21. #21

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    Oh, and I think ps2 dongles work with the ps3 too if you know someone who's got one lying around and can't find yours.

  22. #22

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    So im still waiting for a affordable pre with ht bypass to come along. Im wondering if the parasound 2100 will make a noticeable difference from the pioneer vsx-21txh im using in sound quality or if tubes are my only option for a real difference. The only reason I want to upgrade is to improve my music listening quality. And if a solid state pre wont be a upgrade over my elite, might as well just hold out for the tubage.
    Please comment and help this inexperienced audio addict.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  23. #23

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  24. #24

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    You can order a Mapletree Line 2A with HT Bypass.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    That belles is a gem, but out of my price range. I would have to find a new place to live when my fiance realized the 900 missing from our bank account.
    Thanks for the recommendation face.
    I will do some research on it.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  26. #26

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    It's going to be hard to find a tube pre in your price range with an HT bypass. You might be able to get an Odyssey Candela but not all have an HT bypass and it won;t be in your $500 budget.

    I'd say hold out for a nice tube pre rather than the Parasound.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  27. #27

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    My buddy here locally is selling this. Very nice pre, but no HT bypass. I think he still has it.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....pen-825-pre-an
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  28. #28

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    hey Brock-- what would you compare the Granite pre to--I know thats a difficult question,, I'm just thinking about dumping my EE minimax for something different.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  29. #29

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    I need a ht bypass.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    hey Brock-- what would you compare the Granite pre to--I know thats a difficult question,, I'm just thinking about dumping my EE minimax for something different.
    George, I sent you question to ALL212 hopefully he'll respond. I haven't done any comparison but it's a nice sounding pre. Not sure it would better your EE minimax. He has replaced it with a Candela and says the Candela is a much nicer sounding pre-amp. I believe you had a Candela at one time, no?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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