7.1 or 5.1 with Pro Logic IIz

[gtjackets13]

Hey all,

I am a recent new addition to Polk world after I bought 2 sets of the monitor 40's for the front and rear speakers, a CS10 center, a PSW505 sub as well as a set of monitor 30's to be used... somehow.

I just picked up the new Pioneer VSX-1020 reciever and an wondering if I should set up the monitor 30's as front height speakers above the monitor 40's or should place them behind by couch as true rear surrounds. Perhaps bite the bullet and get another set of monitor 30's to run the 7.1 with the additional 2 as heigh speakers (more or less 9.1).

It seems that neight 7.1 or Pro Logic IIz is really supported all that well, but at $100, I figured I would get the M30's just in case!

What are your opinions Polk world? 7.1 or 5.1 with height speakers?

[cstmar01]

a well placed 5.1 will sound better than a cramped 7.1. I personally don't find a lot to be had with the height channels. Personally if I had the proper room I woudl just do a 7.1 or 5.1 and be done. The back channels for 7.1 are going to give your more information than height channels IMO (if using like PLIIx ect).

[polkfarmboy]

I think 2z is good for gaming and thats all plus you cant hear the height channels during most movies

You could use any old crap speakers for height channels and wont be able to tell so I would advise against the 30's and spend a few dollars more for the 40's

[kuntasensei]

I'm running 9.2 with DPL-IIz, and I disagree about not hearing the height channels during most movies. The effect is subtle... but then it should be until called for. Because of the way DPL-IIz decides what to put there, it is compatible with any movie made in the era of digital surround, primarily because mixers put ambient non-directional sound out of phase in the side surrounds as part of existing theatrical mixing guidelines. DPL-IIz uses that information along with directional data to place sound in the height channels. As far as the general effect this has, in my room it makes my mains sound like they extend from floor to ceiling. And when there's noise like rain or wind... WOW. Watching The Pacific this way has been KILLER.

As far as whether to do rear surrounds or heights, if you're placing the speakers behind the couch, a proper 5.1 placement will probably image better. That said, I've had success in the past with placing speakers behind a couch, facing up. My rear surrounds are actually only about a foot or so behind my listening position right now, though they're placed very high and angled down... and it works great. That said... I suggest popping a couple of quick screws into your wall and try hanging height channels just to try them out. I did that out of curiosity and ended up keeping them. It's one of those things that you don't really fully appreciate until you've listened to it that way for a while and then take them away.

[be83663]

I agree with Kuntasensei; he knows this stuff more than most people here.
And make sure that when you calibrate your speaker system, using Audyssey, for example, do all the available positions possible even if you are not seating in those couple of places.

9.1 or 9.2 speaker placements cannot be wrong for extra added surround effects.

I prefer a PURE mode in my Onkyo pre-amplifier to just listen to whatever the movies are originally encoded for, for a more pure sound with less Total Harmonic Distortion, that processed sounds tend to have more of--5.1 sources for 5.1, 7.1 sources for 7.1, etc, instead of 5.1 sources for 7.1 or even 9.1, for examples. The sounds from the front three, two front and the center, speakers seem different when in Pure mode compared to processed modes such as THX Ultra II, Dolby EX, or Pro-Logic IIx. I think either way has pluses and minuses.

[be83663]

I would get two pairs of TSi100 for the Front Heights and the Rear Surrounds, or two pairs of either R/T/M for half the price of TSi100. :)

[kuntasensei]

I prefer a PURE mode in my Onkyo pre-amplifier to just listen to whatever the movies are originally encoded for, for a more pure sound with less Total Harmonic Distortion, that processed sounds tend to have more of--5.1 sources for 5.1, 7.1 sources for 7.1, etc, instead of 5.1 sources for 7.1 or even 9.1, for examples. The sounds from the front three, two front and the center, speakers seem different when in Pure mode compared to processed modes such as THX Ultra II, Dolby EX, or Pro-Logic IIx. I think either way has pluses and minuses.

Yeah, I can understand doing that, and if it works for you, awesome. For me, if you carefully set up rear surrounds, you get a sound closer to the way theaters with rear arrays sound, which I greatly prefer. But like a 5.1 setup, if you don't take care and spend the time to ensure proper setup, it's not going to work out so well.

BTW, Monitor 30s work great for the height channels. I'm actually running a pair up there even though they don't match the rest of my speakers. The orientation of the speaker (tweeter on bottom) makes it well suited for hanging up high near the ceiling, and the sound is pretty impressive considering how cheap you can get 'em from Newegg. I was initially very skeptical about how DPL-IIz Height would sound, but it really does create a subtle "wall of sound" effect on the front soundstage, and when ambient effects kick in? WHOA! Any scene with rain or mortar fire in The Pacific has sounded insanely realistic. Can't wait to get Saving Private Ryan tomorrow!

[Pappy1]

gtjackets13 - Thank you for starting this thread. I'm new to HT and had never heard of "height" speakers or the value of DPL-IIz. Kuntasensei - thank you for all of the information. I too really enjoy the military movie genre, as well as period dramas such as Pride and Prejudice. Not sure yet if I can do the "height" speakers - my AVR only has DPL-IIx - still investigating.

Best Wishes!

Pappy

AVR - Pioneer VSX 9040TXH
TV - Samsung HL-T6756W DLP
BD - Panasonic DMP-BD605
Cable - CableOne HD DVR
Fronts - Polk Audio Monitor 70s
Center - Polk Audio CS2
Rears - Polk Audio Monitor 60s
Subwoofer - Polk Audio PSW 505

[kuntasensei]

Pappy, I wouldn't say DPL-IIz is worth running out and buying a new receiver for or anything... but if your receiver has it, it's worth checking out. Because ambient sound is mixed in the side surrounds out of phase, you can still get a pretty convincing height effect if your surrounds are higher up on the wall anyway. But if you have the gear for it, it's pretty damn nice!

[gtjackets13]

Thanks for all the feedback all! I think I am going to throw the M30's up as my height channels for a while and give it a spin using the 5.1 w/ height. Im going to keep my eye out on perhaps a set of M60's soon to use as the main fronts and use the 2 sets of M40's I have as the side and rear surrounds.

For now, I'll be enjoying Saving Private Ryan (thanks for that reminder!) with the height channels.

On the M60 note, I see the power rating is up to 200W; however, my reciever is only pushing 110 per channel. I know it will work fine, but is it worth buying that nice of a speaker if I really cant push them the way I want? Below are the two configs I would consider:

(1) Center - CS10, Sub - PSW505, Height = M30, front and surround = M40, rear surround = M30

(2)Center - CS10, Sub - PSW505, Height = M30, front = M60?, rear and side surround = M40's.

I know the M60's are the better speaker, but without the ability to really push them, I feel like running 2 sets of M40's and 2 sets of M30's would be better...

[over50]

My 6.1 system is very close to the set up you are looking at. Power is not a problem, when watching a good surround DVD sounds better then at the theater .I just added the 505 and i cant believer the difference it makes. I think a good sub is under rated..I really enjoyed looking,gathering and desiding what componets to buy. Its a lot of enjoyment shopping for speakers,wires,avr,tv,and The tv stand that holds all of this..Have fun and take pride in your end result.

[cstmar01]

Thanks for all the feedback all! I think I am going to throw the M30's up as my height channels for a while and give it a spin using the 5.1 w/ height. Im going to keep my eye out on perhaps a set of M60's soon to use as the main fronts and use the 2 sets of M40's I have as the side and rear surrounds.

For now, I'll be enjoying Saving Private Ryan (thanks for that reminder!) with the height channels.

On the M60 note, I see the power rating is up to 200W; however, my reciever is only pushing 110 per channel. I know it will work fine, but is it worth buying that nice of a speaker if I really cant push them the way I want? Below are the two configs I would consider:

(1) Center - CS10, Sub - PSW505, Height = M30, front and surround = M40, rear surround = M30

(2)Center - CS10, Sub - PSW505, Height = M30, front = M60?, rear and side surround = M40's.

I know the M60's are the better speaker, but without the ability to really push them, I feel like running 2 sets of M40's and 2 sets of M30's would be better...

it probably isn't even getting 110watts to begin with. its not about power ect and just because it wouldn't get 200 watts doesn't mean that the speaker would possibly not preform better. Its a different design and will sound different (normally) when powered with the same amount of watts as a speaker or greater or lesser design. (even within the same model class)

[Pappy1]

Hi Kuntasensei!

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate what you have to say. At this point if was to add any more gear it would be an Emotiva UPA-2 to power my two Monitor 70s (I'm not sure that they are getting enough power).

Pappy

AVR - Pioneer VSX 9040TXH
TV - Samsung HL-T6756W DLP
BD - Panasonic DMP-BD605
Cable - CableOne HD DVR
Fronts - Polk Audio Monitor 70s
Center - Polk Audio CS2
Rears - Polk Audio Monitor 60s
Subwoofer - Polk Audio PSW 505

[Johnnybass]

Will the polk OWM3 make good Hieght speakers???

[kuntasensei]

I don't see why they wouldn't. In fact, the ability to angle them down toward the listening area just about makes them perfect for height channels.

[Johnnybass]

I don't see why they wouldn't. In fact, the ability to angle them down toward the listening area just about makes them perfect for height channels.

I was thinking this also.Thank you:D