Is my Phono Pre holding me back?

[thsmith]

I finally upgraded to a good TT with the Marantz TT-15 from my mid 70s Technics SL-1300.

The upgrade in sound is huge to me but I have been wondering if my Phono pre is keeping the Marantz from perfroming at its best.

I have a CambridgeAudio 640P.

Probably to most interesting question for me is if someone owned the same pre and went up a level how much difference did it make ?

TIA,

Tracy

[quadzilla]

It's possible, even probable, given that you're using a more-or-less entry level phono stage. What are the problems you hear in the sound when the TT is the source? Do you not like the sound stage? Do you feel you're missing extension? What?

If you want, I should have my new phono stage some time next week (hand wired, all tube, not a transistor any where in it). I'd be happy to let you give that a listen. And I'm sure Dave would come over with his.

[dkg999]

I see a lot of people using the CA 640P with some expensive gear, and it always seems to have favorable comments. No direct experience myself. Can you take it to a local audio store and compare it to offerings from Pro-ject, Dynavector, etc?

[thsmith]

Quad, no issues with what I am hearing, as I said the sound from the new TT is excellent and several jumps up in sound from what I had but I want to get the max I can out of the new TT.

dkg, no places around I know of to compare.

[nooshinjohn]

I would consider giving one of these a try. I have becoem quite a fan of Rogue Audio lately, and this unit appears to be a couple steps up from what you have...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls..../Mm-low-noise-

[thsmith]

Thanks John.

Where are you H9 and Hearing ?

[dkg999]

H9 doesn't have no stink'in turntable :p

[hearingimpared]

Tracy save up your pennies and get either a good tubed phono pre or a Spectral DMC 10D, you can't go wrong with either!

I don't know if I turned you on to this place yet but here's the place to go to get a good phono pre. It is called Quest for Sound and Stephen Monte is the owner. Call him, tell him you are a friend of mine and also a member of Club Polk. I've sent dozens of other members to him and he always takes good care of them with matching them up with what they needed and gave a hefty discount. Also, you tell him what you are looking for, the gear used and he will spend hours with you on the phone trying to get you what you want/need. Off the top of my head cstmart is the most recent happy customer and he gave TroyD an uber great discount on a turntable while he was in Korea. There's lot more folks here that can attest to Stephen's generosity and knoweldge.

http://www.questforsound.com/analog.htm

Edit; additionally he has his own line of gear that he designs and manufactures and I've heard them especilly his phono pres and I'll tell you he's really got something great going.

[nooshinjohn]

Thanks John.

Where are you H9 and Hearing ?

Indiana for me...

the Rogue is a tube pre,,,

[thsmith]

Thanks Hearing. SOunds like a better phono pre will help me the most of my new TT. WHat are some good tube phono pre's ?

John, your funny;)

[hearingimpared]

H9 doesn't have no stink'in turntable :p

Yeah he does, he's just embarrassed to admit it!!!;):D

[hearingimpared]

Thanks Hearing. SOunds like a better phono pre will help me the most of my new TT. WHat are some good tube phono pre's ?

John, your funny;)

Just another thought. Make sure the phono pre you get can be used for MM and MC cartridges, no sense in limiting yourself to one or the other.

Also try to make sure that the MM portion of the phono pre has at least two levels of gain control as they are typically high out devices and two gain levels should do ya good. Another suggestion is that it has the ability to give you three of four capacitive load settings, they are in pico farads. Resistive load settings on MM carts are typically 47k but I would try to get one that will allow you to place your own custom resistor in it for versatility and trial and error on getting the best possible sound of the MM cart. Same goes for the capacitive loading.

The MC stage in phono pre; it's best to have variable gain control but as long as it has four or five diifferent gain settings you should be good to go. MC carts can go as low as .1 mV output and I've seen them as high as 5mV output so you want to have the proper gain ability to deal with those various gain options. Also, try to get a phono pre that has four to five resistive load settings and if possible a place to mount a custom resistor load.

It would be ideal if the gain adjustments, resistive & capacitive loading adjustment are on the outside of the unit, usually they are in the rear of it. My Spectral, as awesome as it sounds, has all these adjustments on inside so when I'm in the mood for micro tweeking, I have to pop the top to get to these adjustments.

Hope I didn't jumble up your brain with all this. If you have any questions about this or anything else related to the analog rig, please don't hesistate to contact me.

Joe:)

[Face]

I heard the 640P in a few different rigs, one a big $$$ rig and it always sounded good. I went from a 640P to a Jolida JD-9 a few months ago though. The biggest differences were that Jolida seems more open and dynamic in comparison. Otherwise, you're not giving up much. I did roll some different tubes and install better coupling caps for even more of an improvement though. The only thing I don't like about the Jolida is the lack of a rumble filter.

[hearingimpared]

I heard the 640P in a few different rigs, one a big $$$ rig and it always sounded good. I went from a 640P to a Jolida JD-9 a few months ago though. The biggest differences were that Jolida seems more open and dynamic in comparison. Otherwise, you're not giving up much. I did roll some different tubes and install better coupling caps for even more of an improvement though. The only thing I don't like about the Jolida is the lack of a rumble filter.

IIRC Steve (Dawgfish) just acquired a Jolida JD-9 and is loving it.

[george daniel]

There is a good thread about the upgrade path with the JD 9


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62730.0

[thsmith]

Thanks guys, lots to consider and research.

The CA is my first phono pre out side of my AVR and has served me well, I would like to make the same jump in phono pre as I have in TT.

[thsmith]

There is a good thread about the upgrade path with the JD 9


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62730.0

I have read that one, great article and instructions.

[Toolfan66]

I heard the 640P in a few different rigs, one a big $$$ rig and it always sounded good. I went from a 640P to a Jolida JD-9 a few months ago though. The biggest differences were that Jolida seems more open and dynamic in comparison. Otherwise, you're not giving up much. I did roll some different tubes and install better coupling caps for even more of an improvement though. The only thing I don't like about the Jolida is the lack of a rumble filter.

Mike,

I still need to do the upgrade on my Jolida.
Can you tell me what I need again and where to get the cap? If I remember you used a sonicap, right?

Thanks,

Sorry for the thread Jack :o

[Face]

I used a Claritycap ESA, but will soon be upgrading to a Claritycap MR(same as audiocircle thread) since I have an extra pair. You can find either at Madisound: http://www.madisound.com/manufacture...ycap/index.php

The value you need is 1uf.

[Toolfan66]

I used a Claritycap ESA, but will soon be upgrading to a Claritycap MR(same as audiocircle thread) since I have an extra pair. You can find either at Madisound: http://www.madisound.com/manufacture...ycap/index.php

The value you need is 1uf.

Thanks!!

[george daniel]

Face,,or anyone,, did you change out the op amps? If so,,which ones were used in place of the originals?Thanks all.

[Face]

Not yet. I may soon.

[quadzilla]

Quad, no issues with what I am hearing, as I said the sound from the new TT is excellent and several jumps up in sound from what I had but I want to get the max I can out of the new TT.

dkg, no places around I know of to compare.

So you'll probably have to audition a few stages to find what you're looking for. This is the guy that's building mine:

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/

and this is what he's building:

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/phono%20stage.htm

I auditioned one at his place in Garland, and it's about the best I've heard.

[hearingimpared]

So you'll probably have to audition a few stages to find what you're looking for. This is the guy that's building mine:

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/

and this is what he's building:

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/phono%20stage.htm

I auditioned one at his place in Garland, and it's about the best I've heard.

That's a beauty. Hand wired, no circuit board . . . cool!

[quadzilla]

@hearingimpared Thanks. The one I'm getting actually upgraded from the one in the pics. Silver mica caps in the RIAA section (passive), Mundorf S/O for the coupling caps, no volume knob, a couple of other things.

@thsmith The other thing I was wondering is what cart do you have? That table might deserve a better cart as well. I've been thrilled with my Shelter 901. It was a huge leap from the Ortofon Super OM 30.

[thsmith]

Clearaudio Virtuoso comes with the TT-15S1

[hearingimpared]

Clearaudio Virtuoso comes with the TT-15S1

Nice sounding cart Tracy!

[hearingimpared]

@hearingimpared Thanks. The one I'm getting actually upgraded from the one in the pics. Silver mica caps in the RIAA section (passive), Mundorf S/O for the coupling caps, no volume knob, a couple of other things.

Quad. how do the options in this phono pre compare to what I wrote to Tracy in the link to the post below?

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...6&postcount=12

[quadzilla]

It's not the same. You tell him what you want for loading and input capacitance, and it's set up like that. Changing these would require desoldering a component and soldering in a new one. For me, that's no big deal. But the downsides to things like resistor and capacitor networks and/or using DIP-style networks vastly outweigh the flexibility. If I swapped carts on a regular basis, I might care.

[thsmith]

Nice sounding cart Tracy!

Yep, I like it.