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  1. #1

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    Default Bi-amping question

    Tell me if this will work- Using a pair of TSi 300's as the front channel of a 5.1 system, I was considering using the DENON AVR 591 as the centerpiece. BUT if I went with a 7.1 channel receiver, say the DENON 1910 or the 791, could the extra two channels be used to power the 300's effectively running double the power into them? Would this prove to be beneficial?

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    As a starter possibly howeverm in the long term you might want to consider separate amps to drive your front speakers (LCR) and thus keep the AVR power for the rear.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Am I correct though in understanding that I could take 4 channels of a 7.1 receiver and use two channels for each front speaker (the TSi 300's) and that it might actually make them perform better than they would just using a 5.1 receiver?

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    no, that will not work because there is no way to simultaneously control the volume control of the 2nd zone with the main volume, you will need seperate amplifiers, if your going to consider bi-amping do it right or your wasting money and time, you need an active crossover network and seperate amps and a standalone pre-amp.

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    I don't think you can biamp using just a reciever (the extra channels are hard wired to do rear surround duty only)

    now if you had a seperate amp )and your reciever had preouts, that will do the trick.

    if your denon avr 591 has preouts, get an external amp if you want to experiment (used market/lighter fare to keep the budget low...this would be an experiment)

    if it doesn't have preouts, get a bettr quality receiver overall, not just an equal one with more channels......trust me on this.

    the TSi's are not terribly power hungry at all, and easy to drive so the advantages of biamping might not be too huge.
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    Quote Originally Posted by polkerfan View Post
    Am I correct though in understanding that I could take 4 channels of a 7.1 receiver and use two channels for each front speaker (the TSi 300's) and that it might actually make them perform better than they would just using a 5.1 receiver?
    What you have to use is front channels (A) and (B) and then use your AVR in A+B mode. I don't believe it would work using other dedicated channels since they are not the same information. As far as I am concerned, except for a little separation between the tweeter and the drivers there is no gain in doing this. You have tho realise that if the AVR was (as an example) rated 700 watts over 7 channels and you use only 5 channels, your 700 watts is still there for your use and would be split within your speakers approprialtely during the auto audio set-up.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Thanks for the info. Is it safe to say then that the Denon 591 would be plenty to run the 300's? I think its rated for 75 wpc. Or would it be beneficial to go to like the Denon 791 which I think is 90 wpc or something similar with a little more power per channel? I know I've asked this question before in a different way, but I just want to be sure that I will be driving my system properly to sound awesome.

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    If it's power you're concerned about, grab a good external power amp. You'll see much more benefit going that route rather than trying anything fancy with the AVR. A 7.1 AVR is sharing a limited amount of power with a lot of speakers and won't have the same headroom that a good power amp will have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polkerfan View Post
    Thanks for the info. Is it safe to say then that the Denon 591 would be plenty to run the 300's? I think its rated for 75 wpc. Or would it be beneficial to go to like the Denon 791 which I think is 90 wpc or something similar with a little more power per channel? I know I've asked this question before in a different way, but I just want to be sure that I will be driving my system properly to sound awesome.
    Go for the AVR that has pre-outs so that you can add an external power amp when funds permit. The internal wpc of the AVR will be less imporant at that point and it will function primarily as the HT processor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpowell View Post
    If it's power you're concerned about, grab a good external power amp. You'll see much more benefit going that route rather than trying anything fancy with the AVR. A 7.1 AVR is sharing a limited amount of power with a lot of speakers and won't have the same headroom that a good power amp will have.
    Quote Originally Posted by dpowell View Post
    Go for the AVR that has pre-outs so that you can add an external power amp when funds permit. The internal wpc of the AVR will be less imporant at that point and it will function primarily as the HT processor.
    Exactly (for both posts)!

    In order to hear a difference the power must at least double (provides a 3 db increased) so 75 or 90 watts you will not hear the difference. Pre-outs are important since they allow you to upgrade around what you own versus replacing and has mentioned your front speakers can benifit from an external LCR amp (leftm front and right) XPA3 as an example (some you might consider to acquire in the use market perhaps).

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    actually the biggest benefit of bi-amping is the active x-over, WAY better sound as i have seen this in action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yepimonfire View Post
    actually the biggest benefit of bi-amping is the active x-over, WAY better sound as i have seen this in action.
    By the way yepimonfire, what did you end up buying as amps for your active Xo? I know someone offered some in the use but you never pointed out what you actually opted for in your post. Did you start any review post by any chance?

    Cheers!
    TK

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    lol i ran out of money due to finacial problems, so thats put on hold for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yepimonfire View Post
    lol i ran out of money due to finacial problems, so thats put on hold for now.
    I see, hope money gets better pretty soon :) No biggy, often the longer the wait the more we appreciate our acquisitions.

    Maybe you should start a thread on the benifit of using external amps as active Xo.

    Cheers!
    TK

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    What you have to use is front channels (A) and (B) and then use your AVR in A+B mode. I don't believe it would work using other dedicated channels since they are not the same information. As far as I am concerned, except for a little separation between the tweeter and the drivers there is no gain in doing this. You have tho realise that if the AVR was (as an example) rated 700 watts over 7 channels and you use only 5 channels, your 700 watts is still there for your use and would be split within your speakers approprialtely during the auto audio set-up.

    Cheers!
    TK
    Most AVRs I've looked at use discrete amps, each rated individually. That means you don't get to split the 700 watts over 5 channels in a 5.1 system.

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    A+B runs on the exact same amps, there is no seperate A and B amp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohskigod View Post
    I don't think you can biamp using just a reciever (the extra channels are hard wired to do rear surround duty only)


    + 1

    Using the denon 4308 or 4810


    Last edited by Bernal; 05-31-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    You can use the Amp Assign function to send ch 6 & 7 to the front for Bi-Amping the 79x AVRs. The 59x won't do that but for a little more $$$ the 1610 has A & B outputs. If you want to invest in the future, it's gonna run you over $700 for a Denon w/full pre-outs. Personally I'd wait on that because by then there will be something better/different available.
    Last edited by chuckt62; 05-31-2010 at 09:25 PM.

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