orson welles sucks

[Micah Cohen]

Yep, I'm saying it: Orson Welles is not a good director, certainly not the greatest director of all time that every film buff seems to believe. I can name five directors off the top of my head who have proved over their careers to be better directors than Orson Welles.

I'll do it right now, looksee:

John Ford
Alfred Hitchcock
Roman Polanski
Elia Kazan
John Huston

Horrors! you say, how can you barbecue that sacred cow! Orson Welles is a genius! A wonderkinder! CITIZEN KANE, you shout! TOUCH OF EVIL, you bellow! LADY FROM SHANGHAI, you plead!

Please. Sure, KANE is a great film, ok? Technically, it is a watershed. But emotionally? It's empty and unaffecting. Do you cry at the end? Do you feel bad for Kane in the end? SHANGHAI & EVIL are failures, botched by Welles's own ego, run over budget and destroyed by the studio because he couldn't keep it together. Why? He was such a genius, wasn't he! His ideas were so ahead of their time, weren't they? BAH! He was a bad director, and he left projects half-done and poorly done, and then moaned and groaned when his financiers swooped in to try to save their investments. MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, puh-leeze.

Meanwhile, each of the above directors, contemporaries of Welles, managed to make bonafide masterpieces (and often a few of them) without sacrificing their own "genius," and without running afoul of the studio financing system.

THE SEARCHERS, just one John Ford masterpiece, is a better film all around than the whole of Welles's oeuvre (and yes, I just used the word oeuvre). CHINATOWN is such a masterpiece that Polanski manages to out-Welles almost effortlessly. Kazan, even tho he's a stool pidgeon, made ON THE WATERFRONT after making STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE! Beat that one-two, Orson! And both Huston and Hitchcock completed more true masterpieces in their careers then Welles even began in his.

So there! Take that Orson!

MC

[Ron-P]

[ducks and runs for cover]

[bobman1235]

To be fair, Kazan did have Brando at his prime to help him out.

[ESavinon]

Don't forget Kubrick.

[Micah Cohen]

To be fair, Kazan did have Brando at his prime to help him out.

Good point, true.

But, I will say that Welles is a much better actor than he is director. See THE THIRD MAN, for one example. Brilliant acting! (And, great direction but not by Welles!)

MC

[Micah Cohen]

Don't forget Kubrick.

Also a big rep that falls apart upon close scrutiny. Except that he did produce at least two masterpieces THE KILLING ['56] and of course 2001. (Go nuts and say that DR STRANGELOVE and THE SHINING are also masterpieces of a kind, and bingo-bango you can go right ahead and proclaim that, yes, Kubrick is even a better director than Orson Welles! HA!)

MC

[mhardy6647]

umm... you forgot to mention A Clockwork Orange.

[Huck344]

umm... you forgot to mention A Clockwork Orange.

and "Full Metal Jacket"

[Kenneth Swauger]

Micah! You old misanthropic pointy-eared freak, how the hell are you? Decided to bless us with your presence have you? Welcome aboard, be sure to pick a seat near the lifeboats!

[Micah Cohen]

be sure to pick a seat near the lifeboats!

Forget that, I'm camped in a lifeboat with all the supplies and no one else is gettin it! It's MINE!

See, you can't just lump movies under director names. Kubrick's CLOCKWORK ORANGE is definitely not a "masterpiece," and FMJ is far from it. Give Kubrick 2001, yes, but nothing else really comes close to that.

Sez me.

MC

[Kenneth Swauger]

Yea, but name another movie that pissed off a super-rich guy like Kane did? Not to mention using a pet name for a lady part as a major theme. I agree with Welles being topped by other directors, but Citizen Kane is the best film ever made by a wide margin. Not only the film itself, but all of the back story put it in a class by itself.
How many times have you heard, "Well, it makes Planet Nine look like Citizen Kane". They don't say that about any other movie, do they?
Jed Leland

[ledhed]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Speilberg is the best director.
*runs and hides*

I'll agree that it isn't Welles. Making the 'greatest movie of all time' doesn't make you the greatest director.

Hitchcock is my favorite in the running for greatest of all time but he never showed the depth in plots and genres that others have. In fifty years, everyone will be clammoring about the 80's and 90's being the 'revival' of cinema and the beginnings of the new generation and Speilberg will lead the pack

[Jstas]

Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

[Jstas]

Oh and George Lucas is the bestest director of all time!

There, I said it. Whatchoo gonna do? Huh? Whatchoo gonna do?

[Micah Cohen]

I'm going to kill you, is what I'm going to do.

SpieLucas is one of the worst things that's happened to movie making in the late 20th century. Everyone gets a couple of passes. Spiel****e gets JAWS, of course, a perfect film, and EMPIRE OF THE SUN, and maybe RAIDERS, ok? But everything else he's done is clearly hooey of the first order. And Lucas gets... Um... Oh, the original, untainted STAR WARS, that's it. (And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

These guys have done more to RUIN filmmaking then they have to save it, systematically lowering our standards since 1977. And yet they will be borne aloft in a wave of boomer revisionist nostalgia as the best of the best. BAH! ALL WRONG! A MISTAKE!

but Citizen Kane is the best film ever made by a wide margin

Sheeple!

MC

[Jstas]

I don't actually believe Lucas was the best director. I just said it to get your panties in a wad and flex some of my Mexican judo!

[Demiurge]

Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

lol...dude...HAHA

Right Click, Save As

[shack]

SpieLucas is one of the worst things that's happened to movie making in the late 20th century. Everyone gets a couple of passes. Spiel****e gets JAWS, of course, a perfect film, and EMPIRE OF THE SUN, and maybe RAIDERS, ok? But everything else he's done is clearly hooey of the first order. And Lucas gets... Um... Oh, the original, untainted STAR WARS, that's it. (And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

These guys have done more to RUIN filmmaking then they have to save it, systematically lowering our standards since 1977. And yet they will be borne aloft in a wave of boomer revisionist nostalgia as the best of the best. BAH! ALL WRONG! A MISTAKE!



Sheeple!

MC

Ah...I was beginning to get worried...but the universe is now back in balance.

[ledhed]

You've got to be kidding. Catch Me if You Can, Minority Report, Schindler's List, Hook, Close Encounters. I personally loved Terminal but it was fairly algebraic.

You can't put Lucas and Speilberg in the same breath. Speilberg shows an ability to transcend genres and cultivate amazing performances from all of his actors, the only real job of a director. No, none of his movies make my top ten but neither do any of the potentials for best director.

The lowering of standards is thanks to the McGs, Michael Bays and James Camerons. The mainstream 'cinema' directors such as The Coens (post '00) and Tarantino aren't helping things by making the trite garbage that excites the film poseurs.

Don't sell the filmmakers down that road, its really TV and Marketing's fault. Thanks to the blockbuster and the recent phenomenon of over-hyping obviously bad movies to try and recoup costs are driving away all the real auteurs and visionaries. The directors are just trying to make a buck and a name to finance their real 'baby'

[mhardy6647]

ahem... and then there's Robert Altman... another personal fave.
Just sayin'.

[hearingimpared]

Well, I dunno about all that but a young Orson Wells looks uncannily like RuSsMaN with like a 7/8ths scale head.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAhaahahaha!!! I see Demi has saved it on his computer . . . I can't wait to see his photoshop genius at work on this one!!!!

BTW; MICAH WHAT A GREAT FRIGGIN THREAD!!! We need your presence more here!

[Tony M]

I vote for Spielberg..Shindlers List is a masterpiece for me...

[ledhed]

ahem... and then there's Robert Altman... another personal fave.
Just sayin'.

He is definitely too often dismissed; one of the last 'character study inside a dramatic arc with a dash of deep metaphor' directors out there.

For me, I guess the question is what makes one 'great'? Making great movies, incredible versatility, huge box office returns, being highly influential, etc?

As far as influential, DW Griffith deserves a heck of a nod, at least in reference to Hollywood reformation.

[F1nut]

The hobbit pimp returns. All hail the hobbit pimp.

[vc69]

(And HOWARD THE DUCK for Lea Thompson in her undies.)

MC

you got that right...

[drselect]

I have to admit not seeing many Orson Wells movies but since Lucas and Speilberg came up I am going to add Clint Eastwood to the fray.... "Unforgiven"

[BottomFeeder]

"The Searchers!"

What an amazing, wonderful movie!!!

[bobman1235]

A lot of Eastwood's movies are good but a little .... heavy-handed to say the least. "Million Dollar Baby" especially, for all the praise it got, the parents were a RIDICULOUS caricature of real people.

[george daniel]

Touch of Evil

[hearingimpared]

Oliver Stone! LOL!!!

How about Quentin Tarantino? You have admit he's a master of dialog. Although he doesn't hold a candle to the greats.