rotel tomorrow

[scottyboy76]

i will be meeting some folks to look over a rotelrb976 6 channel amp. it will be my first separate. i have found many good reviews online and they say it is in fine shape. anyone have opinions? will be getting an older yammy surround rec. with pre outs back soon from having some resoldering done. until then without a rec. with pre outs will i be using for stereo listening for now. also the manual online shows a sub being connected along with other speakers, can a powered sub be made to use in this way. i have no experience with any separates so any info would be appreciated.

[Trunkmonkee]

It depends on the sub, whether it will accept speaker level inputs. Most powered subwoofers are designed to accept line inputs, and provide their own amplification. You would need a pretty powerful amp to hook up to it otherwise. For your setup, I would recommend just hooking it up to your processor, where it says sub-out (that's a line level output). You shouldn't need to worry about amping your own sub unless you have very expensive equipment to where you think you will get an increase in the quality of sound.

The HSU Research VTF-1 is a good example, it's a powered sub but accepts speaker level powered inputs (on the left side of the back panel). Here's a pic: http://pic3.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1273372899.jpg or alternatively check out the manual for it: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/VTF.pdf

Most processors/receivers have bass management, which means it cuts off the low frequencies and sends it exclusively to your sub (<80Hz typ.). You can generally adjust the cut-off frequency in your processor options. This saves your front speakers from being blown out if you don't have fronts that can handle low frequencies.

In short: don't use your amplifier to power your sub, use the line-out on the processor/receiver.

Secondly, I have heard good things about the Rotel 976. It's older, but amps last forever if they are well taken care of. Check for scratches, dings, if it's missing any outside parts/knobs/connectors/screws, make sure none of the connectors on the back are loose, and if you can test it first. If you see rust on the outside of the case, I would recommend avoiding it. It seems like it would work well on your system, but what speakers are you using? The Rotels have a nice sound, but the 976 only has 60W/ch, so it depends on your speakers whether it will be enough power. The Rotel is far above the sound of the Yamaha, so I think you will be pleased with the change.

[Trunkmonkee]

Also, don't connect any inputs directly to your amp unless you know what you are doing. Without having your receiver yet, you might connect an input with too high of a voltage, and that would be bad.

And if you get chance to test the 976 before you buy it, test the pots (volume knobs), by slowly turning each one from zero to max, and listening for any pops or scratches. Potentiometers are often the first to go on old equipment.

[scottyboy76]

trunk your info was much appreciated. the little punk screwed me over and sold it to someone else who came along after me without even letting me look at it after a days worth of emails and phone calls. i have my eye on a denon 5803 for 200. i was wondering if, generally speaking, hdmi hookups are THAT much better than optical or coax, otherwise this older receiver was just raved about in the audio press and was very expensive at the time. any info would be app.

[Trunkmonkee]

Hi Scotty,

I think the Denon 5803 is a great receiver. I haven't owned one myself, but I did consider getting it as well. For $200-300, it's unlikely you will find a good set of separates. At that price-point, it's probably best to stick with the Denon 5803. If lack of HDMI doesn't bother you, go ahead and get it (make sure it's in good shape or only buy with a return policy). Unless you plan on going full blu-ray, with a sound system to match, you won't need integrated HDMI (you can always hook up the HDMI separately for video), and that way you can save a lot of money. Of course, it is nice to have it all in one place, and if you want HDMI too you can probably find a used receiver that has it for $200-300, although you will probably only get 2 HDMI inputs, and other features may be reduced compared to the 5803.

In the future, you can use the pre-outs on the Denon and buy a solid amplifier to go with it, like a Parasound A23 (2ch), Rotel 1095, or Parasound New Classic 5125 or similar quality amplifier, which will improve your sound quality a lot in the future. However, expect to pay $300 for a good used 5ch amp alone, not counting the processor, speakers (e.g. a set of Polk Monitor 70s on sale for $120/ea), etc. If you get the Denon you'll have full capability except HDMI, and you can slowly upgrade your system as you go on.

If you want to go separates, it's best to get quality separates, and that will probably cost you at least $500 used (e.g. Rotel 1066 for ~$250, plus old 5ch amp for ~$250-350). If you want new, Emotiva are the only ones that put out inexpensive separates, but they're no where near the quality in Parasound, Rotel, NAD, etc. so I would avoid them.
I would caution to shop smartly. Check out Ebay listings, they always have 5803's there, but again only buy with a return policy, and Craigslist in local areas (but inspect things first). If you want to be almost guaranteed to have high quality used equipment, Audiogon is another site but is more expensive.

HDMI: If you don't care, you don't need it. HDMI on a receiver is helpful for three things:

*High-resolution movies (720p TV shows, 1080p blu-ray) which can be done separately from your receiver if you prefer
*Consolidation of many HDMI sources into one place (example: you have a DVD player, separate blu-ray player, Xbox, PS3, and a Nintendo Wii to hook up to one monitor)
*High resolution audio from blu-ray discs (high quality digital audio from a blu-ray is ONLY passed through HDMI, not through an optical TOSLINK cable. It's not that other cables can't handle it, it's just that blu-ray wants to have control over the signal for copyright purposes). Many blu-rays are not even encoded with audio that good, and often stick with 48khz dolby or similar.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your new system!!

[scottyboy76]

if i have it right, at present im probably not missing much if i go with non hdmi receiver. i do have a good lg blu ray, the 550, not an oppo or something, but for us its fast great pic quality and such. i have some time frames that for me right now make some nice fronts, also some old kef carinaIIs and kef q60s. as well as polk sub yamaha sub and klh sub. so for our small rooms im beginning to get decent sound quality capablitys.on a disabled vets fixed income i doubt i will ever be able to have some of incredible systems i see some of the guys here have, selah. it sounds like for us, if this guy EVER gets back to me about the denon, it would be a real step up from my old onkyo tx sr blah blah blah. one thing im still perplexed about, coax i have run, sounds fine. optical i have run, sounds fine. 5 ch. analog i have run, sounds fine. excluding hdmi for now, i have read many different discussions on polk forum where knowledgable people give their argument for each. anybody in plain language tell me what i theoretically lose or gain with each. thanks.

[Trunkmonkee]

I don't know about comparisons between TOSLINK optical vs. HDMI (both digital), other than the HDMI connector is not that great in terms of durability. However, both are digital, and as such will effectively carry a pure signal with no noise, but they are limited to the quality you send them. Usually this is sent as 24bit, 48,000khz for Dolby and DTS off a DVD, (correct me if I'm wrong guys) regardless of whether the source was recorded as such. Analog however has effectively unlimited quality, but you will only be able to send such high quality analog signals from an original source, like a person playing into a high quality mic, or a high quality vinyl from a phono. Typically an analog-only system goes for a 2-channel tube setup, and will sound better than a digital system.

For the rest of us, we will probably either not notice the difference, or never have that much money to spend to notice the difference between the two, since CDs are 16-bit, 44,100hz. While this is not directly comparable to the numbers above for technical reasons, suffice it to say that CDs have horrible sound in comparison to vinyl, SACD, or blu-ray audio. HDMI effectively exists only to give them complete control over the audio signal for copyright issues, afaik it has no increase in audio capability. That said, Blu-Ray limits their high quality audio discs to only play via HDMI, and they refuse to play them through optical unless scaled down. That means you need HDMI support all the way to your speaker, which means the player and receiver must both have HDMI and both support blu-ray. I forget which version of HDMI that is... 1.3 maybe? Most blu-rays are not encoded to play that high of quality audio anyway, unless you buy a specific blu-ray audio disc, so I wouldn't worry about it.

In short, in terms of capability I would rate it thus:

Analog (pure, unlimited quality, but expensive to reach: tube amps, analog receivers, etc)
Optical (lossless digital, widely supported)
HDMI (lossless digital, but limited by copyright and equipment support)

[scottyboy76]

you are definitely on the scene trunk. do you know of a wikipedia typ site pertaing to av. not so much the user influenced content, just encyclopedia availability of info