LSIM Article Link

[Outfitter03]

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Po...7-Towers.shtml

Nice pictures including internal layout.

[sandworms]

added to fav's thanx

[Zero]

Just wish they would come sans the "Made in China" sticker.

[LessisNevermore]

Just wish they would come sans the "Made in China" sticker.

But then they would cost twice as much as the current LSi's. Oh wait....

[Zero]

exact-o-mundo.

[TroyD]

Sexy...hmmmm....

[bknauss]

But then they would cost twice as much as the current LSi's. Oh wait....

And Polk would be out of business.

[LessisNevermore]

And Polk would be out of business.

That was a continuation of a snip from the original LSiM thread. I mentioned that I would like to see a "Made in USA" sticker on them, and it was pointed out that they would be twice the price. To which, I said that I would support US-made Polks. Since then, I've seen the MSRP for the new models, and lo and behold, they are roughly twice the price of my current LSi set. (Chinese made, I'm assuming?)

Out of business? with all due respect, I don't buy that. Companies like B&K seem to pull it off.

[AlanD]

Out of business? with all due respect, I don't buy that. Companies like B&K seem to pull it off.

Even the original LSi's were made in Mexico... dollar-for-dollar, Polk gets more speaker value to the customer by engineering everything in the USA and then manufacturing it overseas. It's hard enough to produce speakers for the mass-market and then extend a product line for audiophiles.

Companies such as B&K are at risk for obsolescence. Even though their amps remains solid, their pre-amps/processors are outdated and don't support the latest bitstream formats. Smaller companies such as B&K can't be compared to Polk Audio.

[rexian]

Out of business? with all due respect, I don't buy that. Companies like B&K seem to pull it off.

It's hard to compete with tens of dollars / hr vs pennies / hr for labor. Companies that are going to China / elsewhere for manufacturing are not stupid. Even if they don't go out of business, they'd definitely lose some key investors due to much leaner margin.

[munk]

The only thing I don't understand is that instead of rewarding China by supporting their cheap labor, why can't we at least support cheap labor nations that back us politically, like Taiwan for instance? Every time Taiwan starts to make strides forward, like with tools a couple decades ago, or bike frames, China floods the market with slightly cheaper products that put the Taiwanese out of business.

[Zero]

Munk,

Because many consumers either don't know or could give a crap about such a thing. It's all about keeping the personal wallet as inflated as possible.

Da Rest,

As for the Made in China comment. That was directed towards the LSi-M line, not the rest of the Polk catalog.

[LessisNevermore]

As for the Made in China comment. That was directed towards the LSi-M line, not the rest of the Polk catalog.

Bingo.

[munk]

I got that, but don't know how Polk could remain competitive doing that.
There are a lot of fine products I'd pay extra to support the US, but how many of the top line could Polk sell if they cost 1000, 2000 more?
Polk's thing has always been getting much more for less than the competition. If everyone on the forum purchased, that wouldn't put them over the top.


Dodge and Chevy are current examples of building in the US with high union pay rates, and they're doing so well the government had to assume the debt and take over.

Smith and Wesson had a staff of very fine smiths working for them. About ten years ago they fired them and went to cheaper internal parts for the entire line, and hired much less expensive workers.

I'm delighted Polk is still here and surviving, and providing a very good product. Their staff is stable and loyal.

I'm as troubled as anyone who once lived in an America where it all was built here.

I think you are very fine people to express these things.

[cheddar]

why can't we at least support cheap labor nations that back us politically, like Taiwan for instance?

Probably because labor in Taiwan isn't so cheap. They face the same things we do, a Chinese worforce that is far too large working for cheap.

Per Capita GDP (IMF)

USA US$46,381
Taiwan US$16,392
China US$3,678

[unbridled_id]

But then they would cost twice as much as the current LSi's. Oh wait....

$2200 for a pair of the bookshelf speakers in this economy...

[dorokusai]

Companies like B&K seem to pull it off.

Do you really believe that everything from B&K is sourced or manufactured in the US? Sorry man, it's not..

Just like Jolida, although not to the same extent of misleading that they are.

[messiah]

$2200 for a pair of the bookshelf speakers in this economy...

Yep. It's called progress, and I'm grateful that Polk is working on improving their line-up despite the current economic situation. Not everyone is experiencing a lack of funds for new speakers. I personally don't have 2200 bucks to spend on bookshelves right now, but that doesn't mean that I won't a year from now. I know I'm not the only one here that really wants to get their ears on these. Is 2200 a large initial investment in bookshelf sized loudspeakers? Perhaps. But, if they really are as good as we hope they are, will you care about spending that $ 25 years down the road? Doubtful.

[dorokusai]

I would bet the LSiM 703 bookend will end up being the favorite of the line, much as the LSi7 is for me and the LSi9 for others.

As far as economics go, as mentioned above, thank goodness that Polk is doing well enough that they continue to introduce new products...something like 80 this year. I've been here for quite some time and even longer on the outside, 1985 and I've never seen Polk do what they are doing now. That's from an engineering and marketing viewpoint. The past decade+ has been pretty much lackluster with the exception of the previous LSi. I'm thrilled.

[munk]

Cheddar

That per capita figure has only so much usefulness. That's dividing the gnp into every household. If there is a disparity between rich and poor, it's not shown in those figures.

Taiwan has marketed some pretty good stuff. China sells below cost for the time long enough to crush them. A lot of Taiwan goods are marginally more expensive than China's.

[ken brydson]

http://www.avguide.com/article/polk-...p?src=Playback

[cheddar]

That per capita figure has only so much usefulness. That's dividing the gnp into every household. If there is a disparity between rich and poor, it's not shown in those figures.

First, it's not by household, it's by population. Per capita (for each head).

Second, it supports exactly what I said it supports, that there are far too many people in China working for almost nothing compared to countries like Taiwan and the US. Considering China is what, the number 2 economy in the world, yet divided up by population, it's one of the poorest countries per capita, speaks volumes about how low the wages in the country must be. There simply isn't enough GDP in the whole country to pay the overflowing mass of people anything close to richer per capita nations like the US.

[munk]

Of course- I'd looked up Bosnia last night and read the figures per household.
You make good points, I'll give you that. Why are Taiwan goods only marginally more expensive than those made in China? If China has so much cheap labor, why do they bother dumping goods below cost on the open market? They shouldn't have to.

China has an enormous population- but it's hardly all in Hong Kong or industrial ports. It's not like all those billions of people are available for labor in the manufacturing centers. They have a big pool, but so does India. Both India and China, for all their wealth, still cannot feed everyone. That's got to be a drain on the treasury, and a source of hidden overhead. I know China's building roads like the US once did in the 50's and 60's. When those roads are complete, those workers will be accessable.

When China reaquired Hong Kong, at first, it was doubtful how much capitalism would continue. That was relaxed eventually, but the money coming in comes to a much smaller population. I still don't believe 'per capita' is adequate in explaining China. I'd like to know the per capita in Hong Kong. I'd really like to know when a firm like Mega Bloks has toys built for them in China, where does the money go- to whom?

At bottom, I'm a simple man who watched the bike trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, the electric tool trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, and wouldn't find it hard to watch their hand tool trade falter.

Forreign investment set up CNC machinery in China, right? They aren't going to need all that cheap labor for long.

This is an enjoyable tangent, and I thank you. Perhaps we shouldn't fill up the link thread to the new line, though!! (my bad)

[LeftCoast]

Are they going to come out with new models for their other speaker series? Specificlly the RTiA

[cheddar]

Perhaps we shouldn't fill up the link thread to the new line, though!! (my bad)

Then it's best if you don't respond with long winded responses, then try to cut off further conversation with comments like this.

At bottom, I'm a simple man who watched the bike trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, the electric tool trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, and wouldn't find it hard to watch their hand tool trade falter.

You will not find a simple solution to countries with billions of people they have to keep employed. There's a reason manufacturing is going to China and other outsourcing to India. Too many people working for almost nothing. All your points seem tangential at best to this sober fact. Taiwan is actually in the same boat as the US, investing large amounts of capital in China hoping for returns leveraging the cheap labor (Just because it says made in China, doesn't mean a Taiwanese or American company doesn't benefit from it. Just ask Polk or Walmart.) You may have an example here or there of a Taiwanese domestic manufacturing company trying (or failing) to make it without using the cheap labor (Close prices say nothing about comaprative profit margins. It could be Taiwan selling below their ability to make a healthy profit even if at a higher price.). But just as in the US, the far greater trend is to stop fighting it and just start using the cheap labor to their advantage.

[cheddar]

China has an enormous population- but it's hardly all in Hong Kong or industrial ports. It's not like all those billions of people are available for labor in the manufacturing centers.

Actually, big eastern cities like Shanghai, where most of the Chinese population is centered, have huge low wage migrant populations just like the US, except that the workers come from surrounding villages instead of other countries.

[munk]

. Originally Posted by munk

Perhaps we shouldn't fill up the link thread to the new line, though!! (my bad)

"Then it's best if you don't respond with long winded responses, then try to cut off further conversation with comments like this" Cheddar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by munk
At bottom, I'm a simple man who watched the bike trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, the electric tool trade start up in Taiwan and then falter, and wouldn't find it hard to watch their hand tool trade falter.

I also said this: ' This is an enjoyable tangent, and I thank you."


Goodbye Cheddar.