Seeking tuner information, recomendations

[inspiredsports]

My foray into tube gear has left me without an FM Tuner so I'm researching what to buy.

I like vintage 80's gear and think I might go solid state with something like the value priced Onkyo Integra T-9090 or Crown FM Two, but I won't rule out a tube unit and my budget is not set. What I learn here will help me determine what to spend.

I'm looking to find out:
--- What percentage of you have an FM tuner connected to your rig? (Survey at top)
--- Your favorite (Specific) models?
--- Price I might expect to pay.

[steveinaz]

Carver, Yamaha TX-1000, Pioneer vintage analog tuners, etc.

[pitdogg2]

go back further mid to early 70's Sansui Tu 717,719,919 and 9900 were one of the best along with Kenwood analogs. Onkyo made two fabulous that were digital. The better sounding and much more sensitive to the signal are going to be for the most part analog. As we all know here on the FM all will benefit greatly from a re-cap and alignment

My favorite and the one I own is the Sansui Tu 719. I have had Carver Tx 11B, Yamaha CT series X3, Yamaha Tx930 and 950(not very good) and Onkyo 9500II

[gimpod]

S.A.E. Two T7

[mhardy6647]

Best tuner ever made: REL Precedent (runner up - Dick Sequerra's Broadcast Monitors).
McIntosh made several wonderful tuners (vacuum tube and soiled state) and the Marantz 10B was also excellent if a bit persnickety.

Sound quality (in terms of best value per unit cost, roughly in order) - Sherwood, Scott, Fisher (vacuum tube).

I use a Sherwood S-2000 (vacuum tube AM-FM mono) in my 'real hifi'. A thoroughly mediocre Yamaha T-550 soiled state tuner is ensconced in our family room and used every Saturday to listen to A Prairie Home Companion and Says You :-)

There are excellent vintage soiled state tuners from Accuphase, Tandberg, McIntosh, Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood (Trio), Onkyo, and Sansui.

You really don't want to see a list of the ones I have but don't use regularly.

THe current Sony HD FM tuner is very good as is and can reportedly be made superb with relatively simple modifications.

[ViperZ]

My best bang for a "buck": Dynaco FM-5. I also like Carver TX-11.

I can sell you my FM-5, since I am not using it. :D

(http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/detai..._stereo_tuner/)

[billbillw]

So many good tuners out there. For a tube rig, I'd probably mate it with a mid/late-70's analog tuner. Get something mid-range (4-5 gangs) and send it to a tuner guru to restore, upgrade, and align it. You will be happy. Ask Disneyjoe about his Sansui.

[inspiredsports]

My best bang for a "buck": Dynaco FM-5. I also like Carver TX-11.

I can sell you my FM-5, since I am not using it. :D

(http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/detai..._stereo_tuner/)

I want to let this thread steep for a while and learn as much as I can, but will PM if I get to that point :)

I'd been listen to FM morning drive comedy, and then listening to their classic rock programming after the talk show ended for a half hour or so before switching over to vinyl. With my tube pre and no separate tuner I'm missing it.

I have noticed FM broadcast quality has gotten WAY good.

[mhardy6647]

My best bang for a "buck": Dynaco FM-5. I also like Carver TX-11...

The FM-5 and its AM/FM counterpart, the AF-6, are indeed not too shabby. The AM section of the AF-6 is reputed to be rather good (in terms of both sensitivity and sound quality)... but the AM in my AF-6 is bjorked :-(

[bikezappa]

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/

[Polkie2009]

pitdogg2 gave some great recommendations,many nice tuners there to pick from. Let us know what you decide on.

[inspiredsports]

pitdogg2 gave some great recommendations,many nice tuners there to pick from. Let us know what you decide on.

I've spent about a dozen hours reading up on what's been presented here so far, and the Sansui's "TU's" have gotten my attention in a big way. I've found lots of web resources, and the http://www.fmtunerinfo.com site bikezappa mentioned is a really detailed source.

The TU 717 (and TU 719 which is identical with a digital readout) seem to be widely regarded as having the best price to performance ratio and ranked at perhaps the 15th best tuner of all time at an amazingly affordable $200.

The TU 919 seems to be regarded as one of the top 4 tuners built, and available for around $500, and actually rated higher than the flagship TU X1, rare TU 7900 and popular TU 9900.

I'd sure like to hear an Accuphase T-109V, Kenwood L-02T and TU 919 in the same room.

The TU 717 (or 719) is really appealing as a first step due to the low price. The Onkyo 9090 is also high on my list.

[tonyb]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/ele/1915260767.html

Saw this for 30 bucks, nice looking,with meters too.
Also saw a tu 717 for 100 bucks.

[Conradicles]

I use this one and it is my favorite to date.

Here is what the folks had to say at fmtunerinfo:

Denon TU-1500RD (photo) search eBay
The TU-1500RD is a very common current model tuner with RDS capability and an optional remote control. Our contributor Girard, a well-known DXer, reports: "The TU-1500RD is my DX tuner of choice these days. RF performance is wonderful, and changing the four IF filters for better selectivity is very easy. In wide mode it uses two of the filters, and in narrow mode it uses all four [two of which have a fairly narrow 180 kHz bandwidth - Editor]. It's not bad with the stock filters, but I modified mine by replacing all the filters with 150 kHz Muratas. In this configuration it's very close to being as selective as the Onkyo T9090II. What I like about the TU1500RD is the sensitive and apparently low-noise front end. I've measured mine down to 0.5 microvolt for a usable (in DX terms) mono signal. The tuner handles my high-RF environment (less than five miles from two 100,000-watt FM stations) better than any tuner I've ever tested. I like this tuner so much that I sold my T-9090II. When you open the TU-1500RD it looks like a gutless wonder inside, because most of the components are surface-mounted on the 'underside' of the circuit board. There are very few components mounted on the 'top' of the circuit board. The tuner does not automatically switch from narrow to wide IF mode while tuning, but it does have selectable Auto/Manual tuning mode. I always run mine in manual because in auto it wants to scan to the next fairly strong signal it finds, which is annoying. In manual, it tunes normally in 100 kHz steps, but in manual mode it won't do stereo. [Could there be a problem with this one? - Editor] I think that's kind of odd, but it doesn't bother me for DX work. In either auto or manual, it retains whatever IF setting (wide or narrow) you've selected."

DXer Matt S. adds, "I too am pleased with the TU-1500RD, although I've not modified the filters. The audio quality is far superior to my Yamaha TX-900 but the .01 MHz tuning step on the Yamaha is very useful. I decided the best thing for me was to leave the Denon unmodified and use both tuners as conditions warrant. Having not used a 'regular' (read: unmodified) tuner in years, I can't really compare this unit to other unmodified tuners, but it does fine on adjacents if a signal is up. The real fun, of course, is the RDS display built in." Another DXer, Mike Bugaj, has a writeup on mods for the TU-1500RD, as well as a comparison to the Onkyo T-450RDS, on his website. But DXers Bill N. and Randy Z. complain that "the extended mute every time you change frequency, almost a full second," basically means that the TU-1500RD has to be DXed with in mono. Bill adds, "There is also next to nothing you can do to tweak that tuner as there just isn't much inside other than the big IC that has everything built into it, and the service manual isn't terribly helpful on what pins do what."

Our contributor Dan has more on the TU-1500RD: "The first thing that impressed me was the attractive design and somewhat intelligent layout. The buttons are a little on the small side but spaced far enough apart to be used without hitting two or more buttons at once. Using it for the first time was extremely easy with little surprise. The tuning knob works just like an analog tuner does, except in 'Auto' it will scan until it finds the next station. It doesn't change from narrow to wide mode automatically either, but will stay in either mode when searching. I noticed that the tuner was trying to lock onto even weak stations that barely had any signal that I don't normally don't listen to, but changing to 'manual' would bring in many cleanly. Sonics-wise, nothing really jumped out at me, it was pleasant and non-fatiguing. Soundstage had very good depth, bass was very natural-sounding without being obnoxious or overly boomy, highs were a little laid back, but the detail and clarity is excellent. Overall I'd say the sensitivity of this tuner seem to outweigh any sonic deficiencies there might be because you can hear more stations better than before, at least I can, and any sonic shortcomings are relatively small compared to other less sensitive tuners. The RDS can be a very nice feature, probably more suited for use in cars, but helpful when DX'ing. I think this would be a good tuner for someone who doesn't want to have to pay to have a vintage tuner upgraded and repaired - it just works well out of the box." The rack-mount version of the TU-1500RD is called the TU-1500RDP, with the "P" apparently standing for "professional" as with the Marantz ST-6000. The TU-1500RD usually sells for $110-160 on eBay, but as low as $75-90 and up to $200 or more are not uncommon. The record low is $42 in 9/09 for one with a remote.

[mhardy6647]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/ele/1915260767.html

Saw this for 30 bucks, nice looking,with meters too.
Also saw a tu 717 for 100 bucks.

It's OK but at or near the bottom of the Sansui line of the time (mid-1970s). The TU-717 at 100 smackers is probably a better deal (all things being equal).

For the record, and FWIW, I have a TU-717 and it is a beautiful (and nicely made) piece of hardware and performs quite well as a radio (sensitivity, selectivity, etc.) - but sonically it's pretty typically solid-state-y sounding; kind of unexciting. Mine is hooked up in the basement (where most tuners don't work too well in my deep-suburban location). The TU-717 can be modified to be pretty darned good... but "stock" it's not so great where (to me) it counts the most, audio quality. YMMV, of course (EDIT: and, in fairness, all vintage tuners should only really be fairly evaluated after a freshening-up and alignment by someone who knows what he/she is doing and with good and properly calibrated instruments to do it).

[inspiredsports]

It's OK but at or near the bottom of the Sansui line of the time (mid-1970s). The TU-717 at 100 smackers is probably a better deal (all things being equal).

For the record, and FWIW, I have a TU-717 and it is a beautiful (and nicely made) piece of hardware and performs quite well as a radio (sensitivity, selectivity, etc.) - but sonically it's pretty typically solid-state-y sounding; kind of unexciting. Mine is hooked up in the basement (where most tuners don't work too well in my deep-suburban location). The TU-717 can be modified to be pretty darned good... but "stock" it's not so great where (to me) it counts the most, audio quality. YMMV, of course (EDIT: and, in fairness, all vintage tuners should only really be fairly evaluated after a freshening-up and alignment by someone who knows what he/she is doing and with good and properly calibrated instruments to do it).

Thanks for weighing in on the Sansui TU 717. When you write the it has a solid-state sound, that brings up a point of confusion for me when mixing solid state and tube gear.

Remember, that my goal is to find a "decent" tuner to be hooked up to my modded Conrad Johnson PV-5 tube preamp which is feeding my (currently at Music Technology being modded) VTL ST-50 tube amp. These two components provide pure tube sweetness!

Do you think the TU 717's solid state sound quality will make it through my gauntlet of tubes still sounding solid state?

My thoughts for this tuner addition were to go solid state to avoid having to buy and maintain more tubes, but again, I am flexible based upon what I am learning.

[mhardy6647]

I have my TU-717 connected to a rather nice Sherwood S-5500II (push-pull 7591A vacuum tube integrated amp), so... I'd say, yes. But, again YMMV.

In terms of the hardware I have (which is all to which I can responsibly speak), the $50 (eBAY price) monaural (I don't routinely use an MPX adaptor) Sherwood S-2000 in the living room has it all sonically over the TU-717. We are fortunate to have a few good-sounding FM stations still extant in the Boston metro area.

The only other ss tuner in the house that I'd say sounds really good (in fact, maybe better than the TU-717... though I've never carefully A-B'd them) is a Yamaha CT-1010.

Don't sweat the tube hardware too much: small-signal tubes (i.e., all of those in a tuner besides the HV rectifier, if so equipped) last a long, long time...

[billbillw]

Thanks for weighing in on the Sansui TU 717. When you write the it has a solid-state sound, that brings up a point of confusion for me when mixing solid state and tube gear.

Remember, that my goal is to find a "decent" tuner to be hooked up to my modded Conrad Johnson PV-5 tube preamp which is feeding my (currently at Music Technology being modded) VTL ST-50 tube amp. These two components provide pure tube sweetness!

Do you think the TU 717's solid state sound quality will make it through my gauntlet of tubes still sounding solid state?

My thoughts for this tuner addition were to go solid state to avoid having to buy and maintain more tubes, but again, I am flexible based upon what I am learning.

Seeing how most modern FM stations are playing and broadcasting on solid state equipment, I think you will be more than happy with a vintage tuner that has been freshened/upgraded/aligned. Besides, any tube tuner that you can find that is 'affordable', is not going to be anywhere near the top on the quality charts. Most manufacturers abandoned tube tuners in the late 60s/early 70s. After that, there were numerous advancements in the technology that increased sensitivity, selectivity, and stereo separation while lower distortion. Most of the best tuners that came out were solid state. The argument usually comes in to question digital or analog, not tube vs solid state.

I would just find one that meets the following criteria:
a) you like the looks of it
b) can afford it, and
c) has generally good reviews at FMtunerinfo.

After that, I'd strongly recommend you send it in for restoration/upgrade/alignment. The upgrades can be simple opamp and filter replacements. Those are two areas where the current hardware are much improved over what was available in the 70s. Getting the tuner aligned by a pro is critical and shouldn't be underestimated.

[inspiredsports]

Seeing how most modern FM stations are playing and broadcasting on solid state equipment, I think you will be more than happy with a vintage tuner that has been freshened/upgraded/aligned. Besides, any tube tuner that you can find that is 'affordable', is not going to be anywhere near the top on the quality charts. Most manufacturers abandoned tube tuners in the late 60s/early 70s. After that, there were numerous advancements in the technology that increased sensitivity, selectivity, and stereo separation while lower distortion. Most of the best tuners that came out were solid state. The argument usually comes in to question digital or analog, not tube vs solid state.

I would just find one that meets the following criteria:
a) you like the looks of it
b) can afford it, and
c) has generally good reviews at FMtunerinfo.

After that, I'd strongly recommend you send it in for restoration/upgrade/alignment. The upgrades can be simple opamp and filter replacements. Those are two areas where the current hardware are much improved over what was available in the 70s. Getting the tuner aligned by a pro is critical and shouldn't be underestimated.

Thanks Bill,

You've pretty much hit my M.O. on the head.
--- Research
--- Buy the best(IMHO) price/performance ratio I can afford
--- Send in for upgrades
--- Save up for next addictive upgrade :D

Greg

[mhardy6647]

Most manufacturers abandoned tube tuners in the late 60s/early 70s. After that, there were numerous advancements in the technology that increased sensitivity, selectivity, and stereo separation while lower[ing] distortion.

Absolutely true.

Thanks Bill,

You've pretty much hit my M.O. on the head.
--- Research
--- Buy the best(IMHO) price/performance ratio I can afford
--- Send in for upgrades
--- Save up for next addictive upgrade :D

Greg

Sounds like a great plan; I am assuming your research includes listening and not just reading :-)

[disneyjoe7]

So many good tuners out there. For a tube rig, I'd probably mate it with a mid/late-70's analog tuner. Get something mid-range (4-5 gangs) and send it to a tuner guru to restore, upgrade, and align it. You will be happy. Ask Disneyjoe about his Sansui.

Yes absolutely LOVE my updated Sansui TU-717 tuna. Must time I have to look my system to see if that really a tuna or a CD. I'm very happy that I did that.

Use it to a tube pre amp CJ PV-5.

[concealer404]

I've got a Sansui TU-5500 that has NOT been gone through, but still sounds fantastic, and i recently bought an Onkyo Integra T-4087 off of Bill.

They both sound pretty similar to me. The Sansui is a little smoother and seems to do a better job of getting ALL the hiss/static out of the sound. That said, i haven't figured out all the features of the Oinker yet, so i'm sure i'm missing something.

It's amazing how much warmer, how much more "bass slam" you get out of these older tuners compared to the new crap.

I paid significantly less than $100 for each. Did i need them? No. The B&K Pre i run has a pretty decent tuner section in it, but these are both a little better, and they're more toys to play with!

[inspiredsports]

Can any of you with tuners that register signal strength share the values you are getting. Several of the strongest stations in my area are in the 72 to 75 dbf range which seems to be fairly strong and hopefully sufficient as I start listening to various tuners.

I do have an old 75ohm roof antenna that seems to still do a good job, but I'm also considering buying a newer FM specific antenna for even better reception and am looking for ideas there too.

I've had access today to a friends Onkyo T-9090 and have been comparing it to the tuner section of my recently rebuilt NAD 7600 receiver (exact same receiver components as the respectable NAD 4300 tuner).

It is surprising how similar (almost identical) these two particular units sound.

The Onkyo's specs are slightly better on paper, but on the strongest stations my ears detect a tiny bit less noise, which translates to more air between instruments and a little more musicality with the NAD. On the strongest stations overall tonality, focus and soundstage are a dead heat.

On weaker stations, the Onkyo sounds a bit better in all categories.

[snow]

Well im no tuner expert by any means and all I can do is share my personal experience of recent memory I had a Pioneer F-90 for years as my tuner and a Marantz 105B it had sort of a generic antiseptic sound, the Pioneer was better by far but had a digital sound if that makes sense, It had a decent sound but seemed to be lacking the warm analog sound I remembered when I was a kid, the tuner I currently have hooked up is better than either of these in my oppinion in quality of sound and is very sensitive but yet has a good rejection rate and IMHO both a nice looking and operating tuner the Kenwood KT-7300 here is 6 pics of its operating strength on different stations using only a piece of speaker wire as an antenna. Not sure how that relates to the 72 to 75 dbf you mentioned.


REGARDS SNOW

[lakesailor]

The Onkyo is a sleeper….definitely a good tuner for the money. If you want something that matches up well with tubes some of the vintage HH Scott tuners are a best kept secret. The Sansui’s are nice, but tend to be pricey. Another sleeper is the Nakamichi ST-7 if you are after something from the 80’s with good performance but not wanting to spend too much money. I still like the older HH Scott’s…you would be amazed at the FM performance.

[inspiredsports]

This is my alphabetical shortlist of good tuners I have heard through the years at audio stores, friends houses or have owned myself. Some I simply am not ready to buy due to cost. I'm most interested in those in the $150 to $400 range*.

Accuphase T-109V
Accuphase T-109
Accuphase T-101 *
Kenwood L-02T
Kenwood KT-5020 *
Kenwood KT-990D *
Kenwood KT-9900 *
Kenwood KT-8300 *
Kenwood KT-7300 *
Kenwood KT-7500 *
Nakamichi ST-7
NAD 4300 *
NAD 4155 *
Onkyo T-9090 Mk II
Onkyo T-9090 *
Sansui TU-919
Sansui TU-717 *
Sansui TU-719 *
Tandberg 3001A

I don't know much about Scott or Fisher and need to find one of the shops here in town that might have some around.

[Phil Dawson]

The McIntosh MR-71 is considered by many to be one of the best tuners ever built. It is a tube tuner. I own one and listen to it 4-5 hours a day during the week and more on weekends. I t has a wonderful warm sound and is quite sensitive as I live quite a ways from the nearest tower (I have an antenna in the attic of the garage. You can find them quite frequently on Agon in the $700 price range depending on whether it has the detachable wooden case and how clean the unit is. If you get one I doubt that you will be disappointed and if you are you shouldn't lose very much if you resell it. Good luck, Phil

SRS-SDA Front
2 cs400i Center
SRS-SDA Rear
Shure 12in sub
B&K ref 10 pre-pro upgr to ref 50
Techniques 1200 TT
Mac MR71 Tuna
Lexicon rt-20 uni player
PSE Studio pre for TT
2 PSE Studio Mono Blocks
4 PSE Studio Stereo Amps
1 Mac 2100 Amp (bridged to mono) for sub

[inspiredsports]

The McIntosh MR-71 is considered by many to be one of the best tuners ever built. It is a tube tuner. I own one and listen to it 4-5 hours a day during the week and more on weekends. I t has a wonderful warm sound and is quite sensitive as I live quite a ways from the nearest tower (I have an antenna in the attic of the garage. You can find them quite frequently on Agon in the $700 price range depending on whether it has the detachable wooden case and how clean the unit is. If you get one I doubt that you will be disappointed and if you are you shouldn't lose very much if you resell it. Good luck, Phil

SRS-SDA Front
2 cs400i Center
SRS-SDA Rear
Shure 12in sub
B&K ref 10 pre-pro upgr to ref 50
Techniques 1200 TT
Mac MR71 Tuna
Lexicon rt-20 uni player
PSE Studio pre for TT
2 PSE Studio Mono Blocks
4 PSE Studio Stereo Amps
1 Mac 2100 Amp (bridged to mono) for sub

I've always loved McIntosh Gear and was fortunate to have had a friend's C-22 preamp (with 6 strong Telefunken 12AX7 smooth-plates) here for almost 2 weeks. I wanted to keep that gem of a pre as long as I could!

My problem with my recent addiction to tube gear is that I always want to "over-tube" it with lots of sets of expensive tubes for rolling options, so $700 would quickly turn into $1,000, and then $1,300, etc., etc.

The borrowed Onkyo 9090 has to go back Sunday and I now have a strong desire to audition these 2 units:

Kenwood KT-990D
Sansui TU-717 or TU-719

Does anyone have any of these for sale (or trade) ???

[lakesailor]

From my experience with tuners over the years I have noticed that there are tuners that do an incredible job pulling down a signal and then there are those tuners that do an incredible job turning that signal into music you can actually enjoy listening too. Often I have found that a tuner may well exceed at one but not the other, and vice versa. Every now and then there is a tuner that does it all. Trust me when I say look into some of the vintage HH Scott tuners. They are simply incredible.

HH Scott had a huge background in military radio…they got things figured out.

[inspiredsports]

From my experience with tuners over the years I have noticed that there are tuners that do an incredible job pulling down a signal and then there are those tuners that do an incredible job turning that signal into music you can actually enjoy listening too. Often I have found that a tuner may well exceed at one but not the other, and vice versa. Every now and then there is a tuner that does it all. Trust me when I say look into some of the vintage HH Scott tuners. They are simply incredible.

HH Scott had a huge background in military radio…they got things figured out.

Scott has produced dozens and dozens of models through the years. Are there any specific models I should be looking for first?