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  1. #1

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    Default Ethernet network hub rules?

    So what I understand is you can't put more then 2 hubs together before you have issues. Right?

    So if you have a dsl modem with is a modem only, just one ethernet port. Then is this a hub also? I think not right? Ok so if you have a dsl modem with a wireless hub, and with 4 ethernet ports, is that a hub also?

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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    So what I understand is you can't put more then 2 hubs together before you have issues. Right?
    The answer should be "Wrong". The main issue is the length of the cable from the device to the hub. I doubt if you will exceed it at home, whatever it is. If your hubs are not auto-detect for straight-thru or cross-over cables then you will need a cross-over cable to connect the hubs. Otherwise, either cable will work.

  3. #3

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    Ok I had a hub in a closet which I call the IP closet has my dsl modem, wireless hub and the switch hub. The next hub was wired by the family port which was about 80 to 100ft wiring since it goes up wall in the attic, then down wall to the family port. There was a crossover cable to the hub.

    Since then I rewired that port so it wasn't wired to the IP closet hub, but the wireless hub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    Ok I had a hub in a closet which I call the IP closet has my dsl modem, wireless hub and the switch hub. The next hub was wired by the family port which was about 80 to 100ft wiring since it goes up wall in the attic, then down wall to the family port. There was a crossover cable to the hub.

    Since then I rewired that port so it wasn't wired to the IP closet hub, but the wireless hub.
    The max run for RJ-45 between nodes is 100meters. So if your devices are within that you could run directly from your 'wiring closet' to the other devices.

    If your DSL modem only has one port for connection to a switch or hub, then the DSL modem is not a hub or a switch but a 'node' (source or end device).

    If you have a wireless router with multiple ports on it, then the extra ports are probably switched. A "hub" is a dumb device that allows more than one device to share bandwidth across multiple ports.

    A switch is smarter in that each port on the switch has a certain amount of b/w and can swith ethernet packets from one device to another without the other devices seeing the traffic.

    I think you can 'gang' two hubs together if you are trying to extend overall cable reach, but it would be easier to just go wireless.

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    The rule is:
    5 - the number of network segments
    4 - the number of repeaters needed to join the segments into one collision domain
    3 - the number of network segments that have active (transmitting) devices attached
    2 - the number of segments that do not have active devices attached
    1 - the number of collision domains

    Your dsl modem is a router. Just a very limited one. It can only see one device one your network and see the cable company's network.

    A hub has no intelligence built in. It just passes packets back and forth on all ports.

    A switch has some intelligence but and will only work on a local network. Has to be same subnet on each side.

    A router is like a switch but it can deal with multiple networks. Either two completely different networks or two different subnets.

    So to try to answer your question, you are most likely confusing a switch and a router, which look alike with multiple outlets but a router is manageable and will in a home network also assign IP address.

    So you should have a wired or wireless router hooked to your dsl modem and then off of the ports on the router you can have a hub or a switch.

    Hope that helps.
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    Ok so if I understand correctly I can wire this...

    DSL modem wireless router (wireless turned down) setup as 192.168.1.254

    Port 1 wired to wireless N hub 192.168.0.1

    Port 2 Printer setup as 192.168.0.150

    Port 3 VOIP

    Wireless N hub to everything else.


    I can do that because the dsl modem is a router and it as brains.
    Last edited by disneyjoe7; 09-22-2010 at 05:24 PM.

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    So above didn't work out so well, so I set it up like this...

    DSL modem wireless router (wireless turned off) setup as 192.168.1.254

    Port 1 wired to wireless N hub DHCP

    Port 2 Printer setup as 192.168.1.150

    Port 3 VOIP DHCP

    Wireless N hub 10/100/1000 to everything else. 192.168.0.X

    Everything seems to be working 100% I needed to reset ip printer to an address local to the dsl router, but that makes sense.

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    Steve,

    You can't have the devices on different networks, they all need to be on the 192.168.0 or 192.168.1 network in order for them to see each other.

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  9. #9

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    Sal, I can see dsl modem / router as 192.168.1.254, and the main wireless hub as 192.168.0.1. Printer works as 192.168.1.150 computer prints to it. VOIP phone adapter doesn't care but is 192.168.1.12 which I can see from computer 192.168.0.X


    I use to setup so wireless / router switch did the dsl signup, but do the dsl support tech's which wishes to rewire stuff I do a an different sub number for the wireless / router. You just to do a DHCP thing for the hub / switch, it works, and if dsl support tech wishes to rewire stuff the customer can do that with no problem.
    Last edited by disneyjoe7; 09-23-2010 at 10:32 AM.

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasareath View Post
    Steve,

    You can't have the devices on different networks, they all need to be on the 192.168.0 or 192.168.1 network in order for them to see each other.
    Depends on the subnet mask. If it is "255.255.0.0", or "/16", it should work. I think. I always get this mixed up. :)

  11. #11

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    Well, if you want any devices to see each other in the same hub, use the same network ID (like 192.168.0.x or 192.169.1.x or something like that) with a different IP address. Subnet mask is to identify the network by determining the network address range and the network ID. If sometimes static IP are assigned to each devices and mistakenly used the same IP for more than one device, you got a pretty wild nonfunctional network.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    So what I understand is you can't put more then 2 hubs together before you have issues. Right?
    Actually NO, there is no limit as such as far as I know since hubs are basically repeaters in a bus.

    So if you have a dsl modem with is a modem only, just one ethernet port. Then is this a hub also? I think not right? Ok so if you have a dsl modem with a wireless hub, and with 4 ethernet ports, is that a hub also?

    No, an ordinary DSL modem with only one Ethernet port is not a hub. It's more like a gateway for the network and you used Ethernet port to connect to your network for data transmission thru it to the Internet.

    If a DSL model comes with 4 port switch and Wireless networking, it's more than a Hub since you can do a lot of things to the built in switch and setup rules to each port. Wireless Networking is not working in the same principles as Hubs per say.

    Simply Hubs can't do port assigning, network filtering and firewall rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    Ok so if I understand correctly I can wire this...

    DSL modem wireless router (wireless turned down) setup as 192.168.1.254

    Port 1 wired to wireless N hub 192.168.0.1

    Port 2 Printer setup as 192.168.0.150

    Port 3 VOIP

    Wireless N hub to everything else.


    I can do that because the dsl modem is a router and it as brains.
    All of them needs to be in the 192.168.1.x /255.255.255.0 network and all devices (including Wireless N Router) setup to send packages to gateway IP address with 192.168.1.254.

    Primary and Secondary Name server IP addresses should be also pointing to 192.168.1.254 if you want the Internet to work correctly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    So above didn't work out so well, so I set it up like this...

    DSL modem wireless router (wireless turned off) setup as 192.168.1.254

    Port 1 wired to wireless N hub DHCP

    Port 2 Printer setup as 192.168.1.150

    Port 3 VOIP DHCP

    Wireless N hub 10/100/1000 to everything else. 192.168.0.X

    Everything seems to be working 100% I needed to reset ip printer to an address local to the dsl router, but that makes sense.
    You can use DHCP in your N Router but DHCP server in your DSL model needs to be turned off. You need to assign DHCP leased IP addresses to the same network ID address (i.e. 192.168.1.x/255.255.255.0) so all devices can see each other.

    In your N Router DHCP server, use an IP address pool to assign for the 192.168.1.x (not 192.168.0.x).

    I am not familiar with the N Routers but if you want it to allow data from 192.168.0.x sending to 192.169.1.x, it needs to be a gateway and a router itself. All network translation needs to be done in the N Router.

    Why do you want to segregate the network IDs for a simple network? It needs more than what your devices can do. Real routers are needed to route data from one network group to another.
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    I bridge my dsl modem so my linksys does the dhcp with the ISP. after that all the ports left over are going to different switches in my house.. Her office my office etc..... Individual drops are terminated right next to the linksys on a 10/100 switch.

    dsl > router/switch > switches
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    I don't really do a separate network at home, but I like dsl modem to wireless router switch, to be 192.168.1.254 for the dsl modem where the router is 192.168.0.1. The issue had was that I'm going to try Peer to Peer video stuff from my HTPC and moved to a N / 1000 router switch, so I ran out of some ports. The net printer works like the dsl modem as 192.168.1.150 my laptop computer see's it ok 192.168.0.145 DHCP, the VOIP phone works ok from the dsl modem also DHCP 192.168.1.12

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  17. #17

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    Steve,

    Separating IP networks are done by assigning different Network ID and IP addresses range...That is what you are doing in your case.

    I am also a little lost in translation as what you like to do by setting two different IP networks groups. I don't know if your equipments have capability to handle switching and routing like you wanted to do.

    Once again, I think your problems will be solved if you use only one network IP group by using 192.168.0.x/255.255.255.0 or 192.168.1.x/255.255.255.0 ID for everything.

  18. #18

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    Pictures show a 1000 words.

    First the 192.168.1.254 DSL modem / Router




    Next N / 10/100/1000 Router set as fixed address 192.168.1.15 // all outputs are 192.168.0.X


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  19. #19

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    Yes, Pics do tell a thousand words.

    I think I can see what you are saying. You've set your NetGear to 192.168.0.1 before since it's how you connect to it in the pic.

    Now you've changed it to 192.168.1.15, so it should be in the same network with your other router.

    Apply the changes will reboot the router and it should be flowing smoothly now?

  20. #20

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    Here's another picture of Lan setup of the N 10/100/1000 router.

    The dsl modem see's the N router of 192.168.1.15.

    I can see the N router as of 192.168.0.1



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    I would say opt for the switch if you need anything 5ports or more. I have a 8 port/5 port in living room and bedroom. Switches are way easier to work also.
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    I have a 4 port switch but don't you share one port when you do that? The one port feeding the switch, that's why I moved the IP phone and printer off the high side router.

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    If I understand correctly, you need to disable DHCP on one of the routers.

    You can NOT have two routers connected to each other on the 1-4 ports, whether it is a built-in router in your modem or a wireless router. They will fight with each other.

    As a result, must disable the "router" features of one of the units and use it as a switch, or access point.
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    Ok I'm playing with the build sheet, I think I could have 3 switches total but only on one port on the router, and not switch to switch. I done before with a crossover cable but had issues streaming video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7 View Post
    Ok I'm playing with the build sheet, I think I could have 3 switches total but only on one port on the router, and not switch to switch. I done before with a crossover cable but had issues streaming video.
    OK. If your modem has "1-4" ethernet ports, you have a modem with a built-in router. Connecting this to another router requires that you disable the DHCP in one of the routers. Otherwise, they will conflict.

    I had the same problem when I wanted to use a wireless router with another wireless router (each router was in a different area of the house) - I had to turn ONE of the routers into an access point so that I wouldn't have 2 routers on the same network.
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    Are you using a WRT-DD router, I love those but liked the Netgear 10/100/1000 with N router I just don't like the software so much.

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    I have a Netgear RangeMax router just like yours. And a bunch of business-grade Netgear stuff, but the rule is still the same:

    If you are going to be connecting two routers together, you have to turn off the "router" features in one of them so that it acts as a switch. Or you can buy a switch to use in place of the router.

    Two routers connected together will just result in conflicts and intermittent connectivity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    You can use DHCP in your N Router but DHCP server in your DSL model needs to be turned off. You need to assign DHCP leased IP addresses to the same network ID address (i.e. 192.168.1.x/255.255.255.0) so all devices can see each other.
    Megasat16 said it best. Just turn off the DHCP server in your DSL modem so that it isn't a router. Then you can use DHCP in the Netgear Router without any problems.
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    just bridge the dsl modem if you can and let the netgear do all the dhcp, nat etc...


    From netopia.com

    think of your netgear as the home computer in this paragraph.

    Link: Ethernet Bridge
    The Netopia Gateway can be used as a bridge, rather than a router. A bridge is a device
    that joins two networks. As an Internet access device, a bridge connects the home computer
    directly to the service provider’s network equipment with no intervening routing functionality,
    such as Network Address Translation. Your home computer becomes just another
    address on the service provider’s network. In a DSL connection, the bridge serves simply
    to convey the digital data information back and forth over your telephone lines in a form
    that keeps it separate from your voice telephone signals.
    If your service provider’s network is set up to provide your Internet connectivity via bridge
    mode, you can set your Netopia Gateway to be compatible
    .
    Bridges let you join two networks, so that they appear to be part of the same physical network.
    As a bridge for protocols other than TCP/IP, your Gateway keeps track of as many as
    512 MAC (Media Access Control) addresses, each of which uniquely identifies an individual
    host on a network. Your Gateway uses this bridging table to identify which hosts are accessible
    through which of its network interfaces. The bridging table contains the MAC address
    of each packet it sees, along with the interface over which it received the packet. Over
    time, the Gateway learns which hosts are available through its WAN port and/or its LAN
    port.

    When configured in Bridge Mode, the Netopia will act as a pass-through device and allow
    the workstations on your LAN to have public addresses directly on the internet.

    ☛ NOTE:
    In this mode the Netopia is providing NO firewall protection as is afforded by
    NAT. Also, only the workstations that have a public address can access the
    internet. This can be useful if you have multiple static public IPs on the LAN.
    This is where the netgear comes into play.
    Last edited by bruss; 09-24-2010 at 11:01 AM.
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    This is all good info since I too will be adding a wireless router/hub into my wired router/hub network, and since the wired router/hub works fine I do not need a wireless router.

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