opinions change

[MTXMAN]

when i was a child i thought like a child... acted like a child... and viewed car audio as a child... Now i have put my childish ways behind me... bye bye MTX I have seen the beauty of Diamond Audio and i have seen that it is good. I'm actually considering changing my sn for here to reflect my recent awakening into the relm of High end car audio... Don't get me wrong... I still think MTX makes a good product but i have lately gotten to sample some of what else is out there...

Here's what i'm looking at for my set up..

2 Diamond audio Hex series component sets (need to check price on them)
Eclipse 4 ch amp
Eclipse headunit (model below top of line)(8v outputs but i need to find out what they clip at...)
1 Diamond Audio THD 12" sub with dual 2 ohm voice coils.
Eclipse 2 ch D amp (2 2000w peak mono amps in one case ;D) (pending research on what rms output is at 2 ohm) each channel running 1 voice coil in a mono mode for the whole amp...

let me know what you guys think...

bty tsunami silencer dampening material throughout the car... Tsunami 12ga speaker wire (got a 100ft spool for $37 at CC cost)
4ga power wire for 4 ch; 1/0 ga wire for sub amp
making my own RCA's ;D... a local shop has some realy good rca parts if you can foot the bill...

Tell me whatcha think... All input welcome... still amazed at the gorgeous sound from that 12" THD...

[Josh]

I think you should go with Polk. I've heard they make some decent stuff.

[PoweredByDodge]

bahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha -- he compared polk to diamond hex....



i'm gonna frickin fall of my chair.




the hex comps are pretty damned sweet. diamond subs are no slouches either... i've only had the pleasure of hearing htem a couple times, one was a wall of 6 diamond subs with old school Esoteric Audio amplifiers. *drool* me thinx they were not 4000w each, lolol. i'm pretty sure he was running 6 1000w amps. i think a 4k watt diamond sub would blow my head off.


mtx has never made a good coaxial, never made a sub that i'd consider better than middle class (nothin wrong w/ middle class, its where msot all of us start out) ... but the amps i do so love.

they're not the cleanest, never will be, not the best audio properties, never will be.... but they dont break down, they're easy to fix on the rare occasion that they do, and they do gobs of power with adequate SQ at a cheap price. and when you want more power ???? BRIDGE EM.

Eclipse amps i do not like in anyway whatsoever -- headunits, great ... subs, great ... amps, no way in hell. The couple I heard have sounded hallow and i've never heard anyone say anything good about them.

if you're going to dump all that diamond gear into your car u mgiht as well look at diamond amps too.

Cadence / old Orion HCCA / USamps / PPI / "A/D/S" / Zapco Studio / or blow the bank and go Tru Technology and never look back, ever.


you're gonna be pushin taht 0 gauge to the limit - 4000w is just about 290A of draw -- finally someone who's gonna actually use 0 gauge to full potential!!!!



good choice on teh diamond -- which in reality ought only be compared to Focal, Rainbow, ID, Alpine flagship, because that's teh class it's in.


If the polkies would like the Polk Momo 6" comp set to be of that quality, then they should research, design, and build it better.

The momo comp set is in the grade / class of alpine type R comps, infinity kappa perfect comps, kicker, etc etc.

[PoweredByDodge]

u know i just thought about something -- when i was spouting amp companies -- u need 2000 watts at 2 ohms... and two of thos -- hell not many people make something like that.

i think USamps would be about it. they've got 2000 x 1 class AB bridgeable at 1 and 4 ohms (2000a / 2000x) both are AB's, its just a matter of what ohm load they do power at.

zapco u'd have to go with a symbilink proc and the c2k 9.0 which is overrated as it is.

other than USA - there's the true tech sledge hammer -- can be had online for about $1,500 dollars and runs 5000 x 1 watts at 1 ohm (two 2 ohm coils off that one amp). its class AB mono (already bridged in effect inside the amp... its mono but not a class D). now that's an amp that'll get you attention --- its the size of my torso -- and i'm a fat guy...lol.

[MTXMAN]

I'm definately going to look into that true tech amp :D:D big is fun... may need to remove my back seats...hmm... (gears whirring in head...planning...planing...) What 4 ch amp would you recomend for 2 hex comp sets (also does anyone know a general price range for those??)... need to spend a lot of time online today looking into new brands... Starting to get into the big leagues now... I've had enough of the small fries... (i'll always be a fan of MTX though cause they make pretty good midgrade gear ;D)

no offense polkies i love my MM6's but they arn't quite in the same class as Diamond, Boston, and some others ;D

[MTXMAN]

*shivers run down spine* dreaming about that true tech amp... What's their website i definately want to look into that but i've taken several stabs at website names and can't find it... do you have an addy for them??

[Jstas]

Dude, PBD, how, in God's name could you possible FORGET

COLOSSUS!!!!!


600 watts x 2 channels into 4 Ohms (stereo)
900 watts x 2 channels into 2 Ohms (stereo)
1200 watts x 2 channels 1 Ohm (stereo)
1800 watts x 1 channel into 4 Ohms (bridged)
2400 watts x 1 channel into 2 Ohms (bridged)
Generation XI Series Amplifiers
Full MOSFET AmplifierRegulated Power Supply
0 - 18dB Variable Bass EQ
Fully Adjustable Crossovers with Variable SlopesBalanced
Line Inputs (with optional XI-BLD module)Line Outputs
Phase Shift (with optional XI-BLDP1P module)
Jacks for Remote Adjustment and Operation
(with optional XI-R1)Subsonic Filters
(10 - 150Hz)1 Ohm Stable



Yes, that says 2400 watts x 1 channel BRIDGED, into 2 OHMS!

That right there is a pile of audio grunt for less than 1400 bucks from CarStereoTime.com!

[MTXMAN]

You forget though i'm going to be running 1 ohm mono...

[Jstas]

Originally posted by MTXMAN
You forget though i'm going to be running 1 ohm mono...

See, this is going to sound mean and well, it is but, I don't care what you are going to be running. I was razzing Vinnie and truthfully, 2400 watts at 2 ohms on a bridged amp is pretty fricking impressive.

[MTXMAN]

oh i'll admit it's a DAMN nice amp... If i were getting the dual 4 ohm model i'd look into that but the 5000x1@1ohm sounds more suited to my needs ;D

[PoweredByDodge]

john u're right hifonics totally slipped my mind...

i've been in amp hell lately -- huntin amps w/ cody, tryin to get **** fixed around here -- my blue thunder clipped on me today for absolutely no reason -- i mean it was hot as hell and i ran it for 2 hrs at full power but u dont usually get that "clip out and come back in" thing...

ya got me tho --- forgot HiFonics ...

that'd prolly be more relibale -- better looking, and less "power plant lookin" than the Sledge Hammer, but hey -- a sledge is a sledge.

i'm tryin to load up the site for tru tech now -- its givin me fits -- its a graphic intensive flash website...

here... http://www.trutechnology.com/main.htm

that's the main portal.

the specific product is the "SH-1 Sledge Hammer" amplifier... and can be found at ....
http://www.trutechnology.com/hammer_series.htm

if you're gonna do tru tech u might as well get a tru tech amp for highs.. the copper series is absolutely frighteningly clean... the sheets on it make Zapco look like Pyramid or Legacy. T03 series is pretty sweet too and more closely astheticly resembles the SH-1

here's the paper rating on the SH-1 --- it'll come outa the box better than this...
Model: SH-1
Channels: 1 CH
Frequency Response: 10Hz ~ 300Hz ±1dB
Rated Power: 14.4 Volts DC
T.H.D.: < 0.1%
4 Ohm RMS: 2000W x 1*
2 Ohm RMS: 3000W x 1
1 Ohm RMS: 4000W x 1**
S/N Ratio: > 100dB
Input Sensitivity: 0.16 ~ 4 Volts
Damping Factor: > 700
Efficiency: 69.10%
Fuse Requirement: 120 x2 Amp
Power Supply: 11 ~ 16 Volts DC
Low Pass @ 18dB / oct: 40Hz ~ 300Hz
Sub-Sonic: 10Hz ~ 100Hz @ 24dB
Remote Bass Knob: Yes
Bass Boost: No
Dimensions (L x W x H): 15" x 8 13/16" x 6 3/4"
Weight: 23.5 lbs.

* H-1: 300W x 1, SH-1: 600W x 1
(Competition Power Rating)
** For Competition Use Only


the label "for comp use only" has nothing to do withthe amp's ability to stay cool / functin -- rather its a warning about power... its going to draw SICK amounts of power --- and will kill most alt/batt setups unless u do a real good upgrade.

if you're going to dump the cash into one of these things, dont be afraid to just call up tru tech and ask to talk to one of their engineers about what exactly you cant and cant do in your car... and what the exact performance of that amp will be... i'm sure they wont have a problem spending osme time on you considering the price tag of their gear.

[MTXMAN]

as gorgeous as those are i think i'd probably need to recharge my batt every 4 blocks... any idea of pricing on the SH and the copper amps ??

[PoweredByDodge]

this dude Vic sold one used (he was a competitior, used it twice, then got sponsored so had to sell his non-whatever company gear) for 1300 --- i've seen others go online either used or new wholesale for 1500 -- retail is probably 2500 or maybe more.

Crossfire VR2000D's can be had on ebay for 750 new in box -- thats just another sugg.

a D is gonna be like 40% more efficient than an AB and thus not annihilate the electrical quite so much - but if u can beef up the alt and get like 4 batteries the AB's the way to go.

the copper series are probably like 750 for a 4 channel. they're vastly underrated... if they're doin like 50 at 0.0001 thd, they're doin like 80 or 100 at 0.1%

they're car killer amps -- best to talk to one of their guys to figure out a battle plan, that way it all goes perfect.

[MTXMAN]

cool... also got a recomendation for the new PlanetAudio Titan Series TT2250D here's the specs...

Class D
Max Power (1 ohm) 2250x1
rms power (2 ohms) 1500x1
rms power (4 ohms) 800x1
signal-to-noise Ratio 100db
frequency response 20hz- 250hz
comes with a 175 amp fuse

The guy told me they had a great thd rating at 1 ohm even but i can't for the life of me remember what it was...

I'd be running 2 Diamond Audio dual 2 ohm vc TDX subs one amp per sub at one ohm each amp... those subs are 2000w rms i believe... What do you guys think and what do you know about planet audio...

I think the SH would probably be overkill and i'm not wanting to do too much more than new alternator, replace factory batt, and add one more batt... oh yeah and caps too if needed :D

[MTXMAN]

ps this is the amp that the sub was running off of at 2 ohms in their sound room and it was the best "sound room" performance i've heard from a sub...

oh yeah they retail for just under a grand each too...

[MTXMAN]

i have this habit of forgetting things and then replying to my own message don't i...

I found out today that the Eclipse deck i'm looking at (the non drydeck...) has non clipping 8v outputs...8v is whatcha get... This is one of their two comp grade decks the other is a drydeck with balanced outputs and a copper chasis... only about a 100buck diff between the two but i'm taking the non drydeck for ease of resale later on... oh yeah and it turns out that i'm going to have to get their "comander advance" to be able to play mp3's another $350.... but it'll let me talk to my car too... something to impress friends with... basic it controlls the stereo... you can also have it require a security code at system startup and wire it to alert a theft tracking device if they don't give the right code (i just know i'd get into my car stoned and forget about it one time...) And you can have it controll your windows/ wipers/ etc... it's actually pretty cool....

[PoweredByDodge]

if that deck has true non clipping 8 v outs then you had better get amplifiers that have 8 v tolerance on inputs or else you're gonna have a hell of a time (or maybe impossible time) tuning that system.

8 v outs are usually meant to be split --- and while voltage doesn't split in parallel, current does, and relative power as a result does.

an 8 v output split is still 8 v to each amp, but it may only function as 4 or so.

a true 8 v non clipping out is something i always wanted but always feared... not a whole lotta amps tolerate 8 v ins...

RF is only 6 v tolerant... mtx is 8 v.... most everything else at circuit city and retail chains is 4 or 5 volt.

Cadence is like 7 volt i think

just keep that in mind when shopping for amps -- figure out how u want to wire this stuff, and if you're not gonna be splitting that particular output (whether frtont / rear / sub / whatever) be sure the amp u put on it is 8 v tolerant... else u may even end up damaging the amp.

[Cybernetik]

With the system you're thinking of you might want to e-mail Doug Chuchian of Endless Speed and Sound. He uses Diamond subs, U.S. Amps, Eclipse head unit (I think) in his red Lexus SC300. If you want to drool all over your keyboard go to endless-speed.com and look in the customer cars section. Its pretty hard to miss his Lexus. His e-mail is on the site too.

[MTXMAN]

is anybody in here familiar with planet audio... i'm also looking at their 4 ch which i believe is 125x4 RMS at .08 thd.... not quite positive on this though...

[PoweredByDodge]

USamps 2000a --- 2000 x 1 at 1 ohm.

or the 2000x -- 2000 x 1 at 4 ohms.

both are class AB with specs that match or better zapco.

they're goin used on ebay for about 5 or 6 bills... new for around 8 or 9.

[MTXMAN]

Here are more acurate specs on the Planet Audio 4 ch amp I was looking at...

AP500.4

Max Power (2 ohm) : 250w x 4
RMS Power (4 Ohms) : 125w x 4 @ 0.04% THD
Bridged Power (4 Ohms) : 500w x 2
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 102dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 21-3/8"L x3"H x 12-1/4"W

That one is from their "Apocalypse" line

Let me know what you guys think of that and this D class amp as well

TT2250D
Max Power (1 ohm) : 2250w x 1
RMS Power (2 ohms) : 1500w x 1
RMS Power (4 ohms) : 800w x 1
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 100dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 19-9/16"L x2-1/4"H x 11-3/4"W

That's from the Titan series...

any comments on those amps or Planet Audio in general would be appreciated...
If you want more info here's their website www.planetaudiousa.com

Thanks Guys :D

[Thom]

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
both are class AB with specs that match or better zapco.

Zapco's entry- level?

[Thom]

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
bahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha -- he compared polk to diamond hex....



i'm gonna frickin fall of my chair.


good choice on teh diamond -- which in reality ought only be compared to Focal, Rainbow, ID, Alpine flagship, because that's teh class it's in.


If the polkies would like the Polk Momo 6" comp set to be of that quality, then they should research, design, and build it better.

The momo comp set is in the grade / class of alpine type R comps, infinity kappa perfect comps, kicker, etc etc.

That's funny, I remember tying Ryan Chin in SQ at IASCA finals last year. He's got Focal speakers and Zapco comp. amps. I've got Polk (MM6) speakers and Zapco Reference amps (the cheap stuff). Product isn't everything- install and tuning count for quite a bit. And I'm half deaf.

The MM6 replacement (which won't happen soon) will bump up to a higher price point, allowing us to make a better system.

[PoweredByDodge]

Originally posted by Thom
Zapco's entry- level?

i'll neglect to compare anything but the 1000 watt / 2000 watt amps, as the smaller stuff was not the topic of this post, and fact is, over an entire line of amps, there will be so many different nuances that its not worth comparing, nothing clear will come from it... however, the few 1000 w / 2000w amps were of question, and i do support my opinion that the USamps stuff in that range will equal or better the zapco stuff.

this means equal or better the studio, and the two competition lines... not just the entry reference

examples...

#1)
Zapco Studio 500 -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 4 ohms
THD = 0.012%
damping factor = >900
slew rate = 50 v / us

USamps USA1000X -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 4 ohms
THD = <0.006%
damping factor = >800
slew rate = 150 v / us

slight push goes to the USA1000x

---------------
#2)
Zapco Comp Z600SL2 -- 900 x 1 at 2 ohms bridged
THD = 0.01%
damping factor = > 1000
slew rate = 75 v / us

USamps USA1000a -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 2 ohms
THD = <0.006%
damping factor = >800
slew rate = 150 v / us

again, 2 of 3 criteria in favor of the USA 1000a
-------------------

#3)
so lets look at the big magilla amps...

Zapco C2k 9.0XD --- 2200 x 1 at 2 ohms mono
THD = < 0.05%
damping factor = > 225
slew rate = > 20v/us (looks like MTX's specs on a really good day... but its class T(D) so figures...)

USamps 2000a( or X) --- 2000 x 1 bridged at 2 (or 4) ohms
THD = < 0.006%
damping factor = > 1,000
slew rate = 150 v/us

clearly, the 2000a(x) wins that battle.

now the best part of this is price -- 1000a(x) can be had for as little as 400 bucks brand new in box on ebay if you're lucky... 500 if you're not... 2000a(x) new in box for around 800 - 900.

the cheapest you're gonna find the C2k 9.0 is 1350 new in box -- i was quoted 1150 for a used (shore shelf display) one.

cosmetically usamps will always look like something from 1985 or at best "old" orion... but that's not their deal... power power and more power.

[Thom]

The Studio and the Z600 are both way out of production. Zapco hasn't made either in years. Anytime I've seen a review of Zapco amps they put out a bit more power than they're rated at (especially the big ones). I'll agree that the power/ dollar ratio is never in Zapco's favor. The way companies measure output varies since there's no standard, so it's hard to say from the manufacturer's ratings which amp puts out more. THD ratings are also measured differently between companies.

I was just wondering what you meant by "better." The US Amps might be a better choice for some people but I'd hesitate to call it the "better" amp outright.

[PoweredByDodge]

keeping up with zapco is hard.

the product i posted is what they've got on their website, and the two times iv'e considered buying zapco product and have contacted "dealers" all the would sell me is studio / ref / or the new c2k stuff.

since there are no local dealers, i've no way of getting my hands on anything for a new product handle.

usamps for anything other than the couple amps i posted may very well be a bad choice for other stuff.

their "smaller" amps aren't quite on par with the bigger ones as far as spec goes and i've not yet heard more than one person be hapy with their amps for anything but sub appications... the 1000/2000 are what they hang their hat on.

the only other am i'd buy from them is the 2 channel tube amp... just to get ahold of a rugged tube amp for cheap.

i've heard zapco reference amps put down heftier competition for use on highs... proof positive the amp is more important than the speaker... kid was running bazooka subs (the old style) and bazooka highs (yuck) with zapco reference amps (god those suckers are LONG)... sounded amazing. ... still hate bazooka.

[MTXMAN]

Umm..... I'm taking it no one has an opinion on planet audio????

I realy want to go with a D class amp though for my subs... I know the sq isn't quite as good as with an AB but i'm already spending over 600 just on the electrical upgrades (200 amp alt's are expensive... 2 gelcell bat's to boot one for trunk one for engine, trunk will run sub amps and regular car bat will run my 4ch) and that's not counting caps as part of the electrical system... So PBD oh king of the car audio forums you ;D If you would be willing to take a look at Planet Audio's website www.planetaudiousa.com and check out their specks (I think they have manuals viewable too) and give me a second opinion I would greatly appreciate it... The seem to be pretty good to me but i'm far from an expert... Just an enthusiast ;D

Thanks again for all the help guys :D:D

[MTXMAN]

also considering a type T amp... Do you know who makes good T amps in the power range i'm looking for???

[PoweredByDodge]

very quickly let me say that if youre running subwoofers and obviously x-ing over under 200 hertz, getting a very good class D versus getting a class T is going to be like absolutely no difference whatsoever... T is the "full version" of D... T functions like D, has the ****ty ass SQ of D and poor overall ratings (minus THD, thd seems to be better but that may simply be because usually its a Zapco or a company of that grade that builds a T... so i'm guessin if zapco made a D it would have just as good ratings as their T's)... class T just will run full range though -- the full frequency spectrum, whereas D is limited.

anyway - imma go check out planet for ya... back in a moment.

[PoweredByDodge]

it's been downloading for 10 minutes and all iv'e got so far is like 53%... christ...

hey 92% now we're makin progress... 25 minutes later...

ok...

well

THD at rated power is 0.5%
damping factor at 4 ohms is 400.. its going to drop as the load decreases...
doesn't even list a slew rate.

i dunno.

most comapnies will give you damping factor, slew rate, and thd at rated power at rated ohm load. or at least something close to that.

they dont.

call them up.

if the slew rate is @ least 20 v/us
and the damping factor is @ least 150 at 1 ohm and rated power

then go ahead and snag the amp because its going to give you a similar performance to an mtx 81000d. just dont spend too much on it.

if its better then good -- as those numbers go up -- amp performance will too. and gauge price accordingly.

but do call them up and find out.