A question of subs, SVS vs Polk

[Sonic45]

I'm excited!
My new Polks just showed up and are sitting in my living room waiting for me to get home and hook them up.
RTi70's
CSi40
FXi30's
RTi28's
Thanks again for all the input you guys gave me for helping with my selection.

Now, for the last couple of days I've been listening to my old crappy speakers (music & movies) just so I can realize just how good my new system will sound, I now realize that my sub also sounds terrible!
It's a Sony SAWM-40, 12" 120W. It is VERY loose, and VERY boomy, no definition at all! It also will have to be replaced.

After some research I've narrowed my selection to either the Polk PSW505 or the SVS PB1-ISD. My HT room is approx 22'x15'with 12' vaulted ceiling.

I did a search and could not find any threads comparing these two subs. If anybody could give me some insight on the performance between these two units I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks,
Terry-

[VR3]

The SVS kicks sand in its face, laughs, then takes a crap at it's feet. There is no comparable so I hear. No offense to Polk subwoofer owners or anything. Just that the SVS is a MUCH better subwoofer in all aspects! *So They Say*

The Polk Subwoofer wont hit below 20, I believe it hits below 28. However the SVS will hit down to 25, and for the same money you could get the SVS PCi 20-45. It goes down to 20hz. Not counting in-room response. The SVS is in a different class. A class of its own. Members here will tell you no subwoofer in its price range can equally compare. I have never heard them, I plan to buy one. But SVS could murder probally any Polk subwoofer except the PSW1200. IDO!

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Sonic45


After some research I've narrowed my selection to either the Polk PSW505 or the SVS PB1-ISD. My HT room is approx 22'x15'with 12' vaulted ceiling.

I did a search and could not find any threads comparing these two subs. If anybody could give me some insight on the performance between these two units I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks,
Terry-

Our systems are much the same except mine is the older vintage.
You have a very large room much like mine and I based my sub purchase on recommendations from Doc. Spec and could not be happier. I would at least say that going from my PSW350 to the SVS line is literally night and day and well worth your consideration.

HBomb

[BeginnersLuck]

Sonic45-

Just a suggestion, if you have any woodworking skills, a DIY sub could quench your hunger and cost considerably less...

-BL

[Dr. Spec]

DIY is the best bang for the buck; you exchange sweat equity for dollars. For first timers, it's not as easy as it looks, though. If you go DIY, you might want to look at a kit instead of starting from scratch.

Regarding the PB1-ISD. This model is essentially the sonic clone of the 25-31PCi. Same driver, same amp, same port, same internal volume (roughly). The enclosure is just a box instead of a cylinder.

The PB1-ISD is actually tuned a bit deeper to 22 Hz as compared to the 25-31PCi, which is tuned to 25 Hz. With room gain, you can expect strong extension into the high teens.

As an aside, you can buy a 25-31PCi with a longer port which is tuned to 22 Hz. This model is affectionately referred to as the "22-31PCi", even though no official model designation exists for this variant. This modification is free at the time of build.

The PB1-ISD will also sound very similar to the 20-39PCi, which is the cylinder tuned to 20 Hz. The 20-39 will dig a bit deeper than the box, but it won't not be noticeable most of the time.

So if you are looking for reviews on the PB1-ISD, simply look for reviews on the 25-31PCi, "22-31PCi", or the 20-39PCi and that will get you very close.

Also, izafar is a new owner of a PB1-ISD, and he can give you his impressions.

Sid - the cylinder model numbers indicate the tune point, and the height of the enclosure, in that order. The three cylinder sizes are:

25-31
20-39
16-46

Finally, I would expect the PB1-ISD to outperform a PSW505 in terms of extension and distortion and overall output. I did notice the 505 is packing 300 watts continuous - very impressive. But the -3 dB point is 28 Hz, compared to 22 Hz for the SVS.

Doc

[goingganzo]

actuley the dual 12 sub box is prety much about 3oo more than i shelled out for stryke force.


if you are bulding a box sub you can get home depo to cut the wood cheap. i took that rought. mdfb and my entyr level tabble saw dident match. also all you need is a roughter with a flush trim bit and i could cut the shoter stuff my self. if you do a sono it is te easyest to do all you would need is a drill and a jug saw

[doorbell]

Yup, I agree with the rest of you folks about SVS. They are the real deal as I recently acquired a SVS 25-31 PCi tuned to 22hz from their website. Extraordinary woofer and customer service. Believe you me, you cant go wrong with SVS.

[bignorm]

GET THE SVS

[hank1105]

We pratically have the same setup. After posting a few times concerning my setup, a few polkster's recommended the SVS. I can honestly say I am extremely happy with my setup and love my SVS PB1.

[Sonic45]

Well, thanks for the replies.

As far as DIY goes, I'm capable but I just have to many other time consuming "hobbies" that require my limited time...

After reviewing the SVS specs I can see the difference between that sub and the Polk 505. I tend to agree that the SVS looks like a better performer - however.
The physical size of the SVS is almost 4" all the way around larger than the Polk (perhaps that explains the lower freq spec...). I have limited size constraints, SVS cylindrical is to tall, SVS PB1-ISD would fit but also would be sticking out obtrusively, Polk fits perfectly.

So I guess I need to wrestle with the size vs performace vs asthetics question for a while.
If the SVS is by far hands down no contest better sounding I might just sacrifice room asthetics, but if the Polk-505 can provide acceptable tight/defined performance.... I sure like the idea of not having the sub sticking out obvioulsy oversized (for its location)....

Thanks, the still pondering:
Terry

[Dr. Spec]

Only you can make the size vs. peformance decision. Many struggle with it.

Big, clean bass requires big internal volume. No two ways around. A smaller enclosure will have a higher tune point.

If you artificially extend the tune point with tons of EQ and a huge amp fighting against a tiny enclosure, you will end up with a very high THD rating at low frequencies.

I am confident the SVS will outperform the 505 in all measureable parameters. With that said, I don't think the 505 will be a slouch in the sound quality or output department.

Personally, everything in my HT system is large, so I really don't care about the size of my subwoofer. Once one hears bass done right, the size of the sub suddenly becomes a very minor issue for many.

I had a 20-39PC+ before the PB2+ and it was no taller than my RT800i towers. The cylinder blends it nicely in a corner and a standing planter obscures it well for example.

There is no hiding the PB2+, though. :p Even so, once in place, it really isn't that huge compared to its direct competition. Like the Velo HGS 18, the M&K 5000, or the Aerial SW-12.

Doc

[afl]

Keep in mind that your RTi70's are an inch or two taller than the SVS 20-39. If you can find a spot for it you'll never regret it...

AFL

[i4gotmyid]

what "hobby" takes precedence over your speakers? man put your priorities in order. to answer whether you should get the SVS Vs the Polk sub i can only say the Polk sub isnt very good. I've had limited exposure to the SVS as only my friend has it and I havent had much time to listen. But I did own a Polk sub for about a week. It wasnt good...not good at all. Its a shame at how bad the Polk line of subs are. To me they are all a big disappointment because its nice to say look at my:
Polk Center
Polk Mains
Polk Surrounds
Polk Sub...well, we can only wish

But I hear they are going to make some new subs, hopefully they will be worthy of bringing Polk some acclaim instead of shame.

[faster100]

Come on, Polk subs may not be HSU or SVS but they aren't junk if you have the upper lines of their subs, 303-404 and 505...

Lets get off the POLK subs suck routine, I like mine and still want a SVS sure, but i don't think it sucks.

[VR3]

Faster,
I have heard the 202, 303, 404 all in CC. What I heard, I was dissapointed, loads of port noise and alot of boom! If you pushed it to hard, it distorted, the worst part was when it hit around 40-50hz the air flow of that port went bananas! Very noisy! The equal price Velodyne, even though it dosnt look as good as the Polk's is a much better subwoofer price/performance.

Polk speakers have tons of bass, but I still do not see how their subwoofers fall so short. Yeah yeah, the PSW650 or w/e plays 2db louder than my sub. Whooooooooooopppppppp eeeeee! The fact it has Polk written on it turns me away, I know in some way its either not going to have low exstention, or tons of port noise or more the less a boomy sound. Not to mention for the same price you can get a much better subwoofer.

The only subwoofer Polk has made that seems to be good has been the PSW1200. It seems to be a beast in a half. I can't believe though that fact that they used Car Audio woofers in it. I was kinda surprised.

I am not cracking down on your subwoofer, I bet it sounds good - well actually reading the above, I guess in a way I am. But you got to look at it this way, each company has their strong/weak points, and it just so happens Polk's weak point is subwoofers.
People crack down on my M&K all the time, so I know how it is to have a subwoofer people thinks sucks, but sounds good to you. My Subwoofer isnt the loudest thing on the block, but its one of the most accurate that i have heard.

I am on the same boat as you, I don't think my subwoofer sucks but I want to give SVS a run. It seems to have the SPL to satisfy my bass hungry wants. But I hope it is as accurate as the M&K or somewhat close to it. SVS seems to be a huge price/performance company, and considering they are not mass market they can provide a heck of a subwoofer for a heck of a price. Polk could not compete with their subwoofers unless they want to loose alot of money in the process. If SVS went mass market the price would probally double! However, I plan to get a SVS at the end of the year around Christmas time. Then I will see what all this hype is about! Until then, Polk should just get out of the subwoofer market and stick to regular speakers and put that extra cash into their car audio line. ;), JK! They need to improve their subwoofers, lower exstention would help them alot! My RT35i hits about as low as the PSW202 for god sakes. What kind of subwoofer is that!!??

By the way...How is the 303 near the top of their line subs? Its the second subwoofer in the line. Then you have the 404, 505, and the soon to be 808(?). I want to hear the 808, it needs to hit atleast to 20hz, if not lower. IMO of course. Dual 10's are a huge turn off though. Why not 12's? I mean I know 10's are more accurate. But still! Low Exstention, SPL, Accuracy, is all a major factor in subwoofers, and I have yet to hear a 10, dual 10 subwoofer that can REALLY SLAM. Wait, yes I have! The TOTL Velodyne subwoofers are like that! They completely rule!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, to get real low FR, you need a bigger woofer with a large XMax. In other words, that small 10 inch woofer in the 808 needs to have a fairly large XMax to really do something. In that case it would then get muddy at times, which would not be a good thing. 12's, and 15's are more suitable and can stay accurate while the 10's will chicken out.

As Doc said in another thread, small woofer, small enclosure, huge amp = Lots of distortion. (At lower FR)

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I have heard the 202, 303, 404 all in CC.

Bleh, nuff said. When properly set up, the Velodyne CHT models don't sound nearly as good.

[VR3]

Originally posted by fireshoes
Bleh, nuff said. When properly set up, the Velodyne CHT models don't sound nearly as good.

May so, however I still will say their loads of Port noise and Boom until I hear one that dosnt sound like that. This could turn into a CC showroom argument in a minute. It proves one thing as of why some people dont buy Polk. In order for them to sing they need the room to breathe.

[faster100]

Ok we all know (so weve heard) SVS kicks ass, Polk isnt the sub king, My 404 is ok.. But what's with the port noise issue you have?? The CC velo has a slot port, and the new polk sub also has the slot port, i have a really small HT room and i never hear port noise!! The 202 has port noise, Ive had it, I only stated the 303 as part of polks top subs because all the contenders, the psw450, psw650 have all since been XXed out of the polk sub lineup, thus the 303,404,and 505 are the only new subs with a slot port, new high roll surround and larger amps.. The 303 i listened to kinda stunk agreed.. Not much bass at all.. If i didn't get a SVS pb1 i would try the psw505 for sure. I like the fact that it has a 12' driver and large amp..

far as THD, no one can really distinguish THD with the human ear can they????? DOC, anyone?? can we hear THD

[i4gotmyid]

I didnt want to sound like i was a polk sub basher, but i feel like their speakers are an 8 out of 10 and their subs are 5 out of 10. they arent terrible, but they definatly arent on the same level as their speakers. I think they are servicable and if you can pick them up cheaply, and they can be had pretty cheaply in my area at CC on closeouts and open boxes then I think they can be rated higher. But they are a disppointment when compared to how good the quality of the rt25i, the SDA's, rt55i's, cs400i, etc...their speakers are worlds better than their subs in terms of quality/price ratio.

[VR3]

Distortion, as in bottuming out. The 303-404, cant handle low FR worth 2 cents. Thats the main problem with Polk subwoofers. No Low exstention.

[Dr. Spec]

I've been consistent and said it several times. Polk does not make bad subs. They don't make great subs either.

They sound pretty decent but have a somewhat exaggerated mid bass hump at around 40-45 Hz, and no genuine deep extension. and I think they compete well within their price class with other OEM sub lines (not MSRP, but what you can buy them for on sale).

I think Polk has been listening. Witness the improvements:

1) Better drivers (better power handling, higher excursion, and a bigger surround).

2) The slot port which increases deep extension by slowing air velocity down and increasing the apparent size of the enclosure. The 505 is -3 dB at 28 Hz, not bad at all and will do justice to almost all music. Still needs another 1/3 octave more extension for HT, though.

3) The amps. The 505 now packs an impressive 300 continuous.

I had dual stacked 350s and I liked the slam and sound quality, but I had no idea what I was missing in terms of true deep extension. The 350s had no appreciable output below 32 Hz. They were like 15 or 18 dB down at 20 Hz, if I recall upon measurement.

I think anyone who has a 404/505 will find it to be a decent sub for both music and HT, but not outstanding. After they upgrade, they realize what they were missing.

When people tout SVS and HSU, you have to remember these are internet only companies, less overhead, no middle man, no retail sales establishments, not even any tax. A comparable (in performance) OEM subwoofer will cost anywhere from 75-150% more than the SVS or HSU. THAT'S why they have such an incredible following - they offer an unparalleled performance value that almost rivals DIY.

For example, if you shell out $1200 for an SVS PB2+, you can bet it will compete favorably with the likes of the Velo HGS-18, M&K 5000, Aerial SW-12, REL Studio III, Wilson Watch Dog, and all others in the $2500-$5000 range.

Doc

[fireshoes]

I also wanted to point out that the current Polk models have substantially less port noise that last years. There is no comparison there.

Hey Doc, what is your opinion on PB2+ versus the HGS18? Just curious since I actually can get the HGS18 for $1250 through my Velodyne accomodations...same price as the PB2+ shipped. Never heard either but HGS18 is already considered legendary and the PB2+ is getting there. Damn it, I don't know why I'm even talking subs, I need an amp first! :D

[Dr. Spec]

Tom Vodhanel estimates the PB2+ will match the HGS-18 in extension and output with two ports plugged. This is from 11 Hz on up.

With one port plugged, the PB2+ gains the advantage at about 16 Hz and walks away from the Velo above that.

With all ports open on the PB2+, the Velo has the advantage below about 22 Hz, but above that the PB2+ crushes the Velo in clean output.

I would say for 98% of the movies out there, the stock tune with all ports open is completely adequate from an extension standpoint.

For a handful of movies out there with true subsonic content, plugging a port and setting the SS filter to 20 Hz or even 16 Hz will get you strong response to 15 Hz or even 13 Hz. That is enough for any movie while still bettering the Velo in clean output.

The nice thing about the tune options is that SVS gives you choices:

1) All ports open = plaster cracking power and strong extension to 22 Hz.

2) Two ports open = still awesome power (about 2 dB down from above in max output), and strong extension to about 15 Hz.

3) One port open = at least the power Velo HGS 18 with flat extension to 11 Hz.

You must remember the Velo servo circuit limits its own output to prevent distortion, so the max SPL this unit can achieve is a bit less than the size of the woofer might lead you to believe. It's a powerhouse for sure, the the PB2+ will crush it with two or three ports open.

You have no idea how strong this sub is in a medium size room. With all ports open it can hit clean 120+ dB peaks at 22-25 Hz on HT. Way too loud for normal use, but the capability is there nonetheless, and at lower but still loud volumes the THD is super low because the dual woofs are loafing.

I'm currently running mine with one port plugged and the SS filter set to 16 Hz and I'm getting -3 dB at 12 Hz and I still hit 115 dB on the Monster's Inc. sock explosion and boo crying scene yesterday.

Doc

[fireshoes]

That's pretty much what I figured you would say. I'm glad they are comparable because I'll be able to get a great sub at a great price anytime , whereas I really need to get my amp while I'm in home theater sales and can get the discount. So I will concentrate on the amp for now and then the sub will be after that.

[Lee Bailey]

A lot of people always comment on the SVS cylinders being too tall. Actually, the 25-31PC is not even as tall as your front towers, it takes up only a 16 inch circle on the floor. You will not even notice it over time.

If this is a WAF thing, they'll get over it! If they love bass, it won't really matter at all.

For those that are truly worried about fashion, SVS now offers the PB1 in different colors. Look at their web site on the PB1 page.

I too have a living room with the HT in it with dimensions of 24x16 with vaulted ceilings. The 25-31PC I have has no problem at all with filling the room, as well as the house, with deep, clean bass. Actually, the 25-31 is the loudest of the 3 sizes of cylinder subs, it just has to give up some of the deep bass extension due to its size.