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  1. #1

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    Default I felt I had to comment

    I have been being silent on the MOMO and Polk Audio "bashing" if you will because mainly I haven't had too many chances outside of a store to hear any of the new stuff.

    But my personal experience with Polk, aside from the administration of these forums, has been quite pleasant and rewarding.

    Polk built thier name with the Monitor series of home speakers for being affordable yet offering amazing sound. Then they went whole-hog on the SDA/SRT systems and really earned some respect in the home audio world and are still highly respected in that sense.

    Around the time the SDA/SRT speakers were out, Polk started selling the MM series. The ORIGINAL MM (not MOMO) series which, if I am not mistaken, stood for Mobile Monitor and used the same driver technology from the Monitor series of home speakers but ruggedized for car use. While they weren't power handling monsters, they had finesse in a world of audio thunderers and at the time, they were the only ones that went for sound quality at an affordable price. The first time I ever really heard of Polk was when listning to a set of MM 3 way components in a friend's car. I was so impressed I didn't want to leave the car! I had to find out more! So I researched and found Polk Audio being sold by Crutchfield. I started getting all the info I could about them and ended up making my very first car audio speaker purchase a set of EX 4 inch speakers for my Ranger pickup. Since then, every vehicle I have owned has used at least 1 pair of Polk Audio speakers.

    After owning the EX, I saw a much more expensive dB series speaker from Polk Audio. These were along the lines of the MM series but instead of the the Monitor series of speakers, Polk took thier award winning Dynamic Balance (which is what dB really stands for) technology for thier RT series of speakers for the home. RT stands for Reference Theater and the same speakers used in those units are what is used in the SRT-9000 system which uses 35 active Dynamic Balance drivers for the most incredible sound I have ever heard from a speaker aside from the magnetic planar techonology. BTW, SRT stands for Signature Reference Theater and it is what made Polk Audio a player in the market rather than just an also ran.

    So these snazzy and very expensive dB speakers were basically the very best Polk had to offer. They were expensive at over 300 bucks for just mid-bass drivers. Yes, Polk Audio did have seperat emid-bass drivers in 4, 5.25 and 6.5 inch sizes if I remember correctly. But given thier performance, the only thing close to them was 3 times as much and came from the likes of Focal or what have you. So at 300 bucks, the Polks were still a bargain.

    It now saddens me to see that Polk has abandoned totally it's ability to take what works so well for them in the home theater and adapt it to car audio. The dB/Kenwood eXcelon system in my truck sounds spectacular and I am so very glad I jumped at the chance to own a piece of audio history. So many people compliment me and ask me how they can duplicate the sound. It saddens me to say that it is not very possible because the company that made these speakers no longer makes them.

    While I understand the fiscal purposes behind making these kind of decisions, I feel that the berating Polk Audio is taking from people is justified. Polk Audio has been known for making a hell of a product for a hell of a price. That's not so true anymore. With the GNX and GXR lines and the forsaking of the well balanced and cheaply priced EX series, I feel that Polk has stepped down a rung on the ladder. Which is fine because quantity makes profits. Quality makes reputations and with all the reputation you want, if people aren't buying cause they can't afford it then there is no profit.

    However, I'd like to see a high-end audio line up like the ORIGINAL dB series come out. Not the Polk/MOMO stuff because, it's just not high end. While I liked the EX series, the MOMO series is what the EX series should have been and I'd leave it as a middle of the road line-up. But I'd like to see an all-business line up of high quality components along the lines of the spirit of the original dB's. I know that if Polk offered something like that, I'd snap it up in an instant! Why? Because unlike the punk kids who run around listening to mind-numbing bass at ear-bleeding levels, I have mature tastes in music and audio and I understand that if I want the quality stuff, I have to be willing to fork over the green stuff and I would, if I felt that the product was deserving.

    So Polk Audio, take your chastising well. You earned it. These are not the ramblings of extreme loyalists but rather the experienced voice of the car audio world who knows what Polk Audio is capable of because it's what made us fall in love with Polk Audio to begin with. All we are saying is, what happened man? You used to be so great! Now, you're just...good.
    Last edited by Jstas; 07-04-2003 at 02:38 AM.

  2. #2

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    ... I'd even pay retail and not scalp it off ebay.
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

  3. #3

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    Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
    ... I'd even pay retail and not scalp it off ebay.
    would you REALLY not buy it off ebay?
    just wondering
    lol
    -Cody

  4. #4
    Al@polk
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    Default Re: I felt I had to comment

    I'd like to comment on some of the observations made by Jstas and by PBD in other posts. You both have good reasons to be frustrated with Polk. MM and Db were good product that created many devoted fans. The original EX was created to be the entry level product.

    About five years ago, it became obvious that prices that most people were willy to pay for car audio were steadily erroding. Also about that time, EX2 was introduced but did not see the success of the original. In an effort to get a share of the meat of the market, Polk created the GXR. We figured that we could give those buying the sub-$80 coaxes would be happy to have a quality alternative.

    Then along came MOMO. It was a powerful marketing alliance of companies from two different side of the automotive aftermarket. While the MM's product looked and sounded good, Polk made a mistake in assuming that customers would pay a great deal more for the name and the looks. In fact, they were...just not that much more. Gen2 MOMO came out with better pricing.

    Fast forward to today. We've taken a hard look at who we are and where we lost our way. We talked to people from all over the country - customers and installers. manufacturers. We got great advice and some justifiable criticism. We listened. Here's what we concluded.

    1) Our customers didn't want us to be a commodity manufacturer. 2) There are many who wished to see the return of the MM and Db lines. 3) Most wanted to see MOMO at mors affordable pricing. 4) Most wanted subs with amtching electronics.

    So GXR is going away with no plans to replace it.

    We are retiring the "EX" name for now. We have just started shipping the new Db line; however, it will take the place of EX as our entry level product. At EX pricing but with greatly improved performance.

    The new step-up will be MOMO coaxes, the MM series, that ship very soon. They will be priced well above Db with performance to justify the difference.

    There are now subs and sizes as well as our first line of amps.

    Don't worry,we haven't forgotten the high end. The MOMO components will remain the same for a bit longer. (We felt it important to get the other lines right first). From what I've seen your patience should be rewarded with some truly unique products.

    Sorry for this long winded reply. I just want you to know that we are working hard to be a company with products you can be proud to own. We strayed for the path but have found our way back. As for the "slams," it's your right and we're big boys. But find some place to hear the new Db, MM, MOMO subs and amps before taking us to task. I hope we haven't let you down.

    Al

    P.S. Even though I'm the VP of marketing, I'm telling you straight. What you think is important to us. A lot of us have been at Polk for a long time and we still care.

  5. #5

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    Now THAT is some good information! Thanks Al @Polk !

  6. #6

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    Al,
    Please believe me when I say that I understand the business aspect of all of it. We are all out to make a buck, just like Polk Audio and you have to go with what will bring in the dough. The problem is, Polk Audio is trying to market to a demographic that has no idea who or what Polk Audio is and they don't care.

    What has put everyone up in arms is that those of us who know Polk Audio and have supported it loyally, sometimes to the point of fanaticism, have felt let-down, almost betrayed. Why? Because Polk Audio stood for something more than just mass-market appeal. While it is necessary to have a certain level of mass-market appeal, those of us dissappointed in Polk Audio feel that that mass-market appeal should not supercede the smaller market which Polk Audio built it's name on. With the cheaper, more affordable yet lacking in performance designs, those of us who knew we could find quality sound at an affordable price at Polk Audio felt that we got a thumbed nose. The marketing and engineers may say that the top-line stuff is capable but those of us working with it in the real world here can see that this is below par for Polk.

    It's funny that you mention the EX lines. It has been my experience that the EX line was a value for your money unmatched by any other speaker manufacturer. You marketed it as an entry level speaker with entry level sound. However, the EX series rivals some of the top-of-the-line product from very many other mass-market companies and for half the price. The only downside to the EX series was power handling. It is that mis-match in opinion that makes Polk so great. Polk hasn't been with the program and has historically been a pack of extreme over-achievers who genuinely care about who is buying thier stuff and what they think about it. That is what has kept me coming back.

    Marketing is one thing. You can sell it any way you want. I don't care. I am not a typical buyer just like quite a few others hanging around here. Looks come second. If the performance doesn't match the looks, then I care. I expect performance to exceed looks like Polk Products always have. They look good but sound better. All I want to see is the numbers this equipment puts up. If they are good numbers then my wallet will be emptied to gain ownership of the equipment that posts these numbers. And you know what is so great about that? It's guys like me, PBD and sntnsupermen131 and others who will pay you for your speakers, use them and then give you hundreds of thousands of dollars of free advertising. All just because we like what we have.

    I do not think Polk has lost its way. I think Polk Audio has lost its focus and forgotten who they are and what they do so well. They are trying to take a bigger chunk of the market. Problem is, the side of the market you are trying to break into, Polk Audio has no name in. So you threw everything you had into that side of the market and forgot about where your name was built and that is what made people upset. It's like like Michael Schummacher leaving F1 to go and drive a demolition derby! It's like the the guys who built the Great Wall of China wanting to just go and play in the mud! It's like Ducati motorcycles wanting to build Vespa Scooters! It just doesn't make sense and basically tells everyone who knows the quality and effort involved in building the previous stuff that it wasn't all that important and we are much happier dealing with the easy stuff so kindly buzz off. You know what? Think back to when you were a kid and you were trick or treating and you rang the door bell of the nice old lady down the street who always gave out something cool like Mars Bars. She opens the door and you yell trick or treat and she drops something lame into your bag like dental floss. What's your first reaction? "WTF? WOMAN! GIVE ME MAH CANDY!" You feel shafted, slighted and almost like you know she slammed the door and is cackling like a hyena on the otherside. Meanwhile, you have a bag full of "goodies" that are supposed to leave you feeling minty fresh but smell like an old lady's bathroom. What is up with THAT?!

    Afterall, the entry level is composed of people who are just like us "know-it-alls" who don't "know-it-all" yet and ask us "veterans" what is good. I will always recommend what I have had the best experience with and defend my choices too. In addition, those who are not aspiring audio geniuses are just looking for good advice on where to best spend thier money. In the past, I have ALWAYS pointed people to Polk Audio with very strong recommendations. They don't always buy but, I can't help that.

    So basically, what I am trying to say is, don't forget about us veterans because we remember Polk Audio. We were there in it's beginnings and fledgling days. We supported Polk Audio and we know who and what Polk Audio is. We are your best ally in the market and we do help sell product. Listen to what we are saying because we know what the consumer side looks like. We know what is hot, what is not and what works and what doesn't. It's great that Polk Audio is going for mass appeal. But without supporting your original audio junkie sales base, you are going to lose face quickly because we are the ones who build your reputation because we buy and use your products.

    I know that sounds like a threat but it is not a threat. It's the god's honest truth. It may seem to put more power in the consumer's hands than is reality but the truth is, even if it is a bit extreme, we can help you more than any amount of advertising.

    It's nice to see responses though and please, don't think you are long winded. People move too fast anymore. They don't take the time to find out stuff, like the whole story. It was nice to get ALL of teh questions and concerns addressed and the questions that were asked have been answered with answers that actually anser the questions asked! It's refreshing and restores my faith that Polk Audio still is POLK AUDIO!

    Oh, you haven't seen long-winded yet! If you think that post was long-winded, compared to me, you're a lightweight!

    Thanks for the response!

  7. #7

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    ya, you want long winded, go read that load of choad that jstas put up about bandpass boxes *har de har har*

    :p

    cody - yes, i would pay retail. yes i would buy it from CC / Crutchfield / wherever was an authorized dealer... and i wouldn't care. i'd be happy to -- i paid 249 dollars per pair for DB series 6x9's... and not once during the itme i owned them did i ever regret it. i'd pay 249, 259, hell 269 ... for the same product today. (well i'd be using 6 1/2" midbass drivers instead but if i was stuck using a 6x9 i would pay that gladly for something i knew damn well was going to put out).

    i paid almost 900 bucks for two subs, albeit from another MFG, but the point is, i gladly opened the vault for a product i had no doubt would make me happy, would last, and was backed by warranty just in case.

    and to Al...

    holy cripe -- a VP of marketing... snazzy... nice to know we ruffled a few feathers on the rooster instead of just the hens.

    i liked the EX II's -- other than pioneer's old TSA line (which was only good by sheer luck, they're other speakers before / after aren't worth the paper they're made of) the EXII were a premiere starter speaker -- great SQ, can run off deck power, but can still take an amp if you upgrade later... and a nice clean sub that could be sealed / ported / or even (shudder) bandpassed... nice decent all around good stuff at a budget price.

    the DX as i said, were the lowest i'd accept for polk's high end line... have made me very happy -- else i wouldn't own so many damn pairs of them -- i am the DX warehouse :) but the DB were smoother on the high frequencies. anywho - that's quibbling on my part.

    momo generation two is good -- price is reasonable -- power handling is up! (i know the rating isn't, but 650 would hurt a generation 1 -- it wont hurt a gen 2... yes i tend to beat on stuff).

    the components are nice -- but i guess here's the deal.. sound quality wise, the momo line (top momo not the mid momo) is just a hair below the DX -- but the power handling is much better than the DX. I think it would be nice if that mid level momo line had SQ similar to the DX with that medium power level (ballpark 300w rms on the subs) ... and revamp the upper line momo into a new breed of polk -- give it the sound quality of the old DB line and the power handling of the current momo line. is that a tall order? yes -- but u dont have to make a ****load of them -- small production, 400 bucks for a component set -- maybe 425 -- 225 for 10" // 250 for a 12" ...

    again, I'd buy that stuff... so would other people.

    you'd utterly crush the circuit city competition -- alpine type R's have been killing the current momo due to price -- they sound just about hte same (actually a teeny bit better) and handle the same power (in reality -- they're rated lower, but the actual handling is almost identical at around 600 - 650) -- but they're priced like 30 bucks a sub less if not more -- so the CC guys push the alpine... if the polk sounded better, handled the same power, and came with that 3 year warranty - boom, you've now made up that 30 dollar gap and moreover, you've surpassed the competition by a noticeable length.

    I handn't planned on this... i planned to just rag and rag and rag away aimlessly until something earthshattering happened.... but if you're the VP or marketing, and you actually have some say around there, them i'm going to do what you ask -- i'm going to ambush the local CC at some point when these things hit stores... i'm going to try out the new momo coax... i'm gonna try out the new subs on the 81000D (oughta be enough power... cough cough :) ), and i'm gonna test out the 'wanna be' DB coax's... i'll give you my opinion then, honest, straight, and without sarcasm (which is usually difficult for me, but hey)...

    if the new DB really are an EX replacement, then way to go -- good starter line... thank god the GNX are dead as a doornail -- Profile: Baja was getting mad that you were jumpin in on their market base.

    *twiddles fingers* -- so we shall see.


    by the way -- i still wear my red and yellow polk audio t-shirt religiously -- wore it to the 4th of july fireworks tonight -- along with my polk audio keychain lariat hanging off my jeans (thanks micah!) only thing i worried about was one of those 1,000 people there breaking into my truck due to my attire.

    my girlfriend is trying to teach her amazon parrot to say "Momo" -- he's gettin there.

    and i make it a point to tell people, when they ask "what the hell is that screaming so cleanly out of that truck" that i'm running around 200 watts / channel into polk audio components that were vastly underrated... when they laugh, i turn the volume up higher, and they cease laughing.

    we're all polk fans -- we're just pissed, like u said.

    all we need is speakers we can stand on - and from previous experience i'm willing to say that in order to metaphorically stand on them (confidence / performance / pride in product), then i think we're gona have to be able to stand on them literally. i've still got that brochure...

    keep the faith ...
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

  8. #8
    Al@polk
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    It's embarassing to be a visitor on my own website. My fixed disk died and took my password with it. Justin will have to straighten that out on Monday.

    The last thing we want to do is abandon those who took us to the party. You and all the loyal Polk owners are our foundation. I know you do more "advertising" than I could ever afford. Believe me, we're grateful. I am deeply troubled that you worry that we're taking you for granted. It would be our gravest mistake. That you will (and have) cut us some slack when we miss the target with a product, is gratifying. That you tell us about it instead of switching loyalties shows how much you care. But it another thing if you think we've sold out...

    I joined Polk over 17 years ago as a graphic designer. Before that I had never worked anywhere for more than two years. (Job hopping is the accepted way to advance in the design/ad business). I expected that my stay with Polk would be similarly short. Wrong!

    What intrigued me then (and now) is that the people loved what they were doing. They believed in great audio, they believed in each other, and they believed in Polk. Stereo wasn't meant to be some dry analytical exercise of trying to reproduce some vinyl-captured sound. It was supposed to be fun. Make you happy, make you sad, make you get up and dance! Some of the old timers you know, like Matt Polk and Paul DiComo. Many you don't. Many who worked side by side with Matt and George on the first production line are still there. Most who joined Polk over the years have stayed. They stay because they like the family and share the same goals. I think a lot of owners have stayed with us for the same reasons.

    "Great sound at affordable prices." In sure you've heard it before. It's not not just some marketing BS. It was Polk's mission from the first days in that garage/factory. It still is. That Matt is still at work nearly every day speaks to that continuity of vision. He still has to hear, tinker with and bless every new product. How many companies can say that? We continue to believe that "audiophile" sound shouldn't belong only to a diminishing group. That everyone can appreciate better audio when exposed to it. And, if made affordable, a significant portion will buy it.

    That brings me to this "new demographic." Yes, we want to ADD them to the Polk family. These kids are over half of the after-market performance industry. When asked what they most want for their ride, guess what the say? An audio system. You're right in observing that many of them don't know audio. And that how it looks in their car is very important. I was there once and you probably were too. Just like wine, you have to try the good stuff before you realize how bad Boone's Farm is.

    The new Db and MM lines are flashier. One reason is to appeal to the Sport Compact crowd. There another equally important reason. We found that, when most novices go into the store to buy an audio system, they are overwhelmed by the choices in the sound boards. Wall after wall of round black things and then standing out all alone are the Sony Xplodes (or the likes). Which do they listen to first? Sony. Many will A/B them against other product and choose another brand for its superior sound but the important thing is that Sony gets first crack at most of these customers. Sony is replaced only through a process of disqualification. If all it takes is a "cool" grille, why not Polk? Let Db or MM be the ones that other have to measure up to. Under the "make-up" is still the same Polk product striving for performance and price. It costs us no more to mold a trick plastic grille than to make a black perf. And over 80% of installs are hidden, so the grilles get thown away.

    Another thing about the Sport Compact crowd... they are jazzed. They go to shows; they hang at parking lots; they cruise. It's been a long time since I've seen excitement like that at an IASCA event. I've gone to many Hot Import Nite shows and the excitement is palpable, even infectous. I leave wanting to slam my A4! These guys (and girls) are hobbiest and with a little knowledge and exposure could be just a hyped about good audio.

    To make a long story short. We are trying to create a market with the teen and college crowd but...we don't think we have to abandon the people who made us. It is my hope that underneath the flashier package you will still find the performance and value you expect from us. It is my hope that there will be a new generation of Polk "fanatics" that can keep us fresh and excited about what audio is meant to be - FUN!

    Gotta go for now - holiday picnic. More later.

    Keep the faith,
    Al

  9. #9
    Vr3 Mx
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    Alright, from a Teen's perspective. I would buy the new Momo line.
    Why? Because it's cheap! I know it's going to sound somewhat good, maybe not awesome, but it should be good. It's Polk. I own ya'lls home speakers, 200 dollar surrounds! Do they suck? Nope! Do they rule all? Nope! Their good, better than everything i heard in CC. Polk has a performance, it is good. But I believe they need to gain their respect back.

  10. #10

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    Kinda lost my ID there....
    www.Vr3Mods.com ///// www.Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro

  11. #11

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    I leave for one day and we get an actual Polk guy in here...figures...Al, I want to thank you, you are the FIRST person to come in here and give us a REAL answer...THAT is what will make people want to stay with polk. And I understand wanting to try and please the younger crowd because im sure thats where more than half of your customers come from in car audio at least
    and like everyone here has said...make the stuff that appeals to the teen crowd...but dont forget about the people who want the higher end stuff too
    I have the second generation momo's...the mm12s and 6 1/2 components...and they sound great...but i wouldnt have paid retail for them...the only reason i did get them was because of a site i found that sold them really cheap...and im very happy with them...the highs could be a little cleaner...but very nice components just the same
    when they do come out in stores...i will be there to listen to them...and i will buy the new mm4x6's and im sure ill be pleased with them too...and whoever said this was right...polk combining with momo was a good idea...it brought in some more consumers...but when the price was set that high...i dont think we were paying for just the speakers...but instead we were paying for the decal that said "polk/momo"
    but thank you again for giving us some actual insight on things going on in polk...its nice to know that someone is finally answering some questions
    -Cody

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    Hey...great to hear from Polk.... probably why there are some di-hard reggs on here...right?

    I'm going to say ...chew some fat... some of its going to hurt...some of its possitive.... some is reality!

    1) I have 2 Polk home systems...SO to me ...Polk has a good reputation...and I love what I hear- IN my home... (this is the positive side)

    2) I ran Polk back in the late 80's early 90's- had the mm's and the tear drops... loved those speakers> I was running Polk and Linear Power while everyone else was using RF and Quart!

    3) This is the Hurt part- Polk just does not compete in the car Audio market anymore! There are many "better" sounding/performing speakers for the price then what Polk has to offer...and thatís been for a while! Your sub line is not flexible enough - sorry...I hate bandpass enclosures... Polk needs to design their subs to fit vented /ported boxes... and handle some power--- this is the major downfall of the subs (IMO)

    Sounds like to me... Polk is trying to change this- I will... as always, give Polk a 2nd listen... I believe they can get back to their roots! AS they did with the LSi line for the home.

    4) Right now... Word of mouth is killing Polk car audio sales... I will admit... I very rarely recommend anything in the Polk car audio line... hopefully this will change

    Once again... Iím not out to destroy or bad mouth Polk. This is a company I believe that is better then what we have been seeing and have stuck around...where many have left! If POLK comes out with speakers/subs that is worth recommending...they will get my 100% ...and I hope they do...

    Anyway... keep up the good all around work with the company! Iíve never been ashamed of my Polk ht/audio speakers...

    Thomas (the gray)

    :)
    Peace sells, but who's buying?

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    the more and more i think about it...the more and more i think this has turned into a car audio soap opera...lol...sorry...but this post was getting a little too serious...thought i should brighten things up a little...
    -Cody

  14. #14
    Al@polk
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    You're right. I didn't mean to spread it so thick. I'll lighten up.

    About three weeks ago I picked up the new Blue Man Group album "Complex." I like it alot. As you can imagine it's very dynamic and heavy on percussion. It really cranks in the car and sounds just as good in the house. There's a remake of "White Rabbit" that will grow on you.

    If you into reading, I just finished couple of books that impressed me.

    One on the Civil War by Jeff Shaara, "Gods and Generals." His father was the late Michael Shaara, who wrote one of the most powerful books on the war that I've ever read - "The Killer Angels" about the three days in Gettysburg that changed the course of the war.

    "The Cheese Monkeys" is a quirky novel about a graphic design student and his inspiring but ecclectic (to put it kindly) mentor. It's by Chip Kidd, a reknowned designer.

    Cheers,
    Al Lite

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    regarind thomas's point that polk does not compete, and/or hasn't in a long time... in the car audio comp scene.


    polk audio car speakers, i believe, never were made to be competition grade.


    rather, at least in my use, they've come to be the perfect medium between daily driving junk (sony / new pioneer / junk junk junk) and high end Focal / Rainbow / SEAS / or the like competition 3 and 4 way component sets.

    i dont want to drop a 3 way into my car.

    i dont want to spend 600 / 700 dollars on a component set.

    i want a 350 - 400 dollar component set that'll take 150 watts rms power, sound fantastic, be a two way (mid / tweet) for ease of install, but will utterly jaw drop just about everyone that listens to it.

    i want it to be durable, true to the music, and i want it to make me happy.

    the DB did that.. the DX did that.. and for all i rip on them, the momo components do that too...

    that's the niche for polk ...

    the id chamaleons are in the same ballpark for use, buit they're a bitch... crossovers fry, fred's rebuilding them faster than he's rebuilding IDmaxes blown by JBL BP 1200.1's (bad amp, not the sub - obliterates the former). while the price is the same, the ease of use is not. at my current stage of "know how" -- i think i can make a set of chamaleons sound amazing, 10 - 20% better than a set of DX components / momo components -- or right on par with a set of DB's... but for the amount of thought involved... i'd rather just get the polk.

    however, following the compeition note -- u could compete with chamaleons... but they're not ballsy enough to really win anything... and that's the crux of the matter -- its a big jump from "kick ass daily driver" to "competition".

    it would be a shame to see a spekaer company get "lost" in that jump the same way polk kinda got lost in the backwards jump to the kiddy crowd.

    there is, and always will be a big ass market for "SQL" -- loud, high power, yet NEARLY comp grade sound quality, at affordable prices with ease of install.

    i bet bill gates drives around with a speaker like that -- there's something to be said for simplicity -- but pushing it to its limit so as to get peak performance.

    its a balancing game polk once played well... i think they can again.

    we'll see.
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

  16. #16

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    Originally posted by Al@polk
    You're right. I didn't mean to spread it so thick. I'll lighten up.

    One on the Civil War by Jeff Shaara, "Gods and Generals." His father was the late Michael Shaara, who wrote one of the most powerful books on the war that I've ever read - "The Killer Angels" about the three days in Gettysburg that changed the course of the war.

    Cheers,
    Al Lite
    It's not thick at all. It' real discussion. I don't know about the rest but I like being spoken to...well...uh...er...written to! in an intelligent, respectful and mature manner. You have done that Al and I appreciate it because I have picked up more info from you that anyone else that has given us "the facts" yet! You sir, are a true gentleman of fine character and Polk Audio is damn lucky to have a guy like you working for them! That's sincere too.

    Secondly, I was going to get the Gods and Generals book but since I only had 25 dollars on me when I went to Barns and Noble, I went and got the book "Jarhead" by Anthony Swofford. It was a simple read really but very compelling because of the subject matter. It's basically the memoirs of a Gulf War veteran who was a sniper. I heard good things about it and wanted to grab it. I heard great things about "Gods and Generals" but just had to get the "Jarhead" book. I'll be getting the book before I get the movie though.

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    i read like 25-30 pages an hour...

    i dunno what it is but i'm slow as a snail, and very little to none of it can i retain -- hence, i watch the movies...lol... robert duval was a decent Robert E Lee, but whats his name (martin sheen?) was a better one ("Gettysburg" - movie version of the killer angels i believe).
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

  18. #18
    Al@polk
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    I have a few questions regarding abandonment, betrayal, disappointment, etc. What do you think are the reasons for these feelings?

    Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target?

    Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes?

    Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base?

    Is it that brand is better known than it used to be therefore less "exclusive"?

    Is it that you think the culture of Polk itself has changed? Is it that Polk is not a $10 million dollar company any more? Is it that you have to "sell-out" to get large?

    Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us?

    Is it all of these things or other things I haven't thought of?

    If you were running the company, what would you do to address these issues? What direction would you take the company (car audio in particular)? How would you keep your friends while attempting to grow?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Al

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    Beings this is the forum where the thread started, does your interest extend into the Home Audio arena Al@Polk? Or is that moreso what Micah would do? Micah has been a pleasant voice to read in that forum.

    I posted a thread over there for the guys to take a look at the conversation here, which is worth reading, if they don't subscribe.

    We would be interested in some one-on-one time in that forum also. Just wondering, this is a great thread either way.

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    I'm sure that it doesn't bother people that polk is trying to appeal to another crowd, that polk is being sold in circuit city and so on. The reason I think people have a sense of betrayal is because polk HAS done better in the past and its getting crappy now. The old DB line sounds better than ANYTHING polk currently carries. The momo line has more power handling, but it does not sound as good. It is the view of virtually everyone, that if you make something great(old db line), then you either make something better or you keep the same line
    We all understand polk wants to make money...no crap...who doesnt?...but when you start to make the cheap stuff that appeals to the mass market(sport compact i believe you said) and your "premier" lines that are meant for the people who first started buying polk b/c it was damn good quality for cheap, when those lines start degrading...thats when people feel like polk is saying oo lets forget about the guys who first started buying polk audio and lets fix all our marketing to where we can make the big money by selling crap speakers to stupid teens....thats when people get pissed off...and theres probably a lot out there that feel that polk is not listening to them too
    my 2cents
    -Cody

  21. #21
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    [i]when you start to make the cheap stuff that appeals to the mass market(sport compact i believe you said) and your "premier" lines that are meant for the people who first started buying polk b/c it was damn good quality for cheap, when those lines start degrading...
    -Cody [/B]
    There's a big misunderstanding here.

    I never said that the new lines (entry or step-up) were created to attract ONLY the Sport Compact crowd. Yes, the looks may be flashier than you would have previously seen from Polk. So what? It doesn't add to the cost.

    You are just as important to us as you've always been. The last thing we wnat to do is replace old customers with new. We hope to add new voices. They don't know as much as you but they're eager to learn.

    The new Db and MOMO lines stand for the things that bought you to Polk in the first place. I sincerely hope that you will find "damn good quality for cheap" in both new lines.

    All I would ask at this point is that you not draw any conclusions before you hear them. After you hear them, let's talk. If you don't like them, I want you to tell me and tell me why. If you do like them, I want you to tell me. Deal?

    Al

  22. #22
    Stronzo
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    Al,

    Great to see an individual from the company in here and posting from time to time. Perhaps you could convince some of your collueges to join in a few discussions over in the HT boards.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Last edited by Zero; 07-06-2003 at 08:59 PM.

  23. #23
    Stronzo
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    Gentlemen,

    Pardon me while I sift through the thread and attempt to add a few thoughts on the subject matter.

    Most of my dealings with Polk and audio in general, have been in the field of home audio. You could say I'm virgin to the ever-changing automotive audio industry. That being said, my comments may seem to come out from "left field".

    There seem's to be the looming ora of "what it was then, and what it is/should be now" in regards to the direction of this beloved company. I see Polk shifting its technique as the market itself shifts - key to the survival of any company. I have seen many companies cater to the desires of the masses, usually to the disapproval of the loyalists. A constant that rarely changes in the fast-paced electronic world.

    Allow me to address your questions Al,

    Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target?
    Let's take a stab at the generation's. While different demands, availabilities and interest's may shift from generation to generation, I firmly believe that if you can manufactor a core product that is solid, it's performance alone will support itself through a duration of time. At which point, only miniscule additions may need alteration as per market demands in cosmetics, formats and/or placement.

    I have heard the Polk Audio car audio electronics, and while I felt they were admirable, nothing "wowed" me. Nothing elevated them above and beyond their respectable competetors. Perhaps it was the gear I was listening to, in the room I was in (vice the car), or perhaps my ears simply are not attunde to car audio. Be it whatever it may, considering many customers are subject to the same first impression, I feel that Polk leaves much room for improvement.

    Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes?
    The certain High-fi "snobbish" appeal certainly can often boost your reputation, but most kids who enjoy car audio fall far short of these often self pro-claimed elitests. No problems with the distribution.

    Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base?
    It most certainly can. How large is the Polk budget and how deep into the rabbit hole are they willing to take this? A vast variety of products that cater to the different needs and tastes of individuals can be a "fool-proof" approach if executed properly.

    Is it that you think the culture of Polk itself has changed? Is it that Polk is not a $10 million dollar company any more? Is it that you have to "sell-out" to get large?
    This comment appears to be one formed from both curiousity and frustration alike. The end-product is what concerns most individual's. A solid...great sounding valued system along with excellent customer service is a reciepe Polk discovered long ago. As for "selling out". Lets leave that one for the early 90's shall we? ;)

    Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us?
    If you were to ask me if I felt Polk read our suggestions, I would say yes.

    If you were to ask me if I felt Polk implemented some of the suggestions, I would say yes.

    If you were to ask me if I felt Polk responded or kept those people informed, I would say no.

    There is that ever-looming "I wonder" in regards to this company. We cross our fingers, we hope. Hell, we want some new kick ass toys to play with, you can never have enough. As Im sure you understand, it can become quite frustrating being left in the dark.

    And finally...

    If you were running the company, what would you do to address these issues? What direction would you take the company (car audio in particular)? How would you keep your friends while attempting to grow?
    This is a loaded question that could not possibly be answered in one thread alone.

    One of the first challenges in my opinion, would be to create three classes in attempt to expand the market base and to give them a variety of tempting choices.

    Be it affordble systems for teenagers.
    Hard-linder systems for those with bigger pockets
    And the no-bars held system for the serious listener/competetor.

    I would also consider developing a seperate series. This seperate series would focus on purely one goal. Whether that goal would be quality or quanity, is yet to be determined. It depends on what the demand and statistics show at that time of conception and projected execution.

    I would attempt to find what is fitting the mold and attempt to evolutionize it in a way that will catch the attention of any and all on-lookers.. If you want good looks, I would do my best to construct an affordable product that once you saw it, and heard it, you just HAVE to have it. Almost like that young blonde at the beach... Though, a sad truth is, most of us dont come home with her.

    Constructing a good looking product is perhaps one of the least challenging tasks given the open archetecture nature of the automotive appeal.

    If nothing more, I hope this reply has at least given you an excuse to stay in front of your desk for a little while longer, long enough to escape the rigours of the day.

    Do not take any of the above words as that of an attack. This is simply a response to an inqurey, which I hoped to have fed.

    For any questions and comments, please contact me at:

    coquinino@hotmail.com

    Regards,

    Sean
    Last edited by Zero; 07-06-2003 at 10:48 PM.

  24. #24

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    ** cracking knuckles **

    and so i do begin to type up a storm...

    you asked for it Al...

    [[[[[Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target? ]]]]]

    ---> yes and no. i think the downgrade in product is a reflection of company ideals. but that's an opinion. i dont work with you guys, so i can't say that for certain. i think polk decidedly went more toward "flare" -- while you've said this was an attempt to pick up more customers while retaining product quality, i saw/see it less as customer directed and more as "we just wanted a prettier product cuz we thought it was cool". which is fine... pretty's cool... but performance went down the ****can at the same time. tradeoffs were made... power for SQ in the case of the momo... everything for a goofy lookin cone in the case of the GNX subs. EXIII stayed somewhat akin to its former EXII coutnerpart... that was a semi-refreshing thing.

    [[[[[Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes? ]]]]]

    ----> i started buying it when it was sold at circuit city. there's nothing wrong with mass marketing / distribution. i'm glad its readily available to newbies and veterans alike.

    [[[[[Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base? ]]]]]]

    ----> i dont like ricers, but i'd still sell them product and rake in $. it's not the attempt to appeal to other crowds. it's the loss of basic principles. namely, the lack of ability to maintain a certain level of sound quality while increasing power handling, adding cosmetics, etc etc. as i said before - i feel like a broken record on that one.

    [[[[ exclusive?? -- sell outs ??]]]]]

    ---> again, myself, and probably most others, could care less if polk was or wasn't a sell out, as you put it, and exclusiveness is for people who eat oysters and wear high white collars. i prefer to rip off my interior wall panels, board them over with mdf, carpet, and modified panels, and slowly go deaf. 'tis my choice, 'tis my way of life... no oysters allowed. -- i think everyone should have the same access to the equipment as i or anyone else.


    [[[[[Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us? ]]]]]]

    ---> DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! --- we've got a winner, Rod Roddy, tell em what he's won...

    When i switched my inital 4 speakers from DB to DX, i called polk and asked them before hand saying "will there be any differneces?" The answer I received was "absolutely none, the DX are just a bit more sensitive so they can be run off deck power if need be, but other than that, no" -- The reality was a speaker that was similar yet quite different. Tweeter response was much more harsh (dont take harsh as a bad word... its a nice tweeter on the coaxials... but in comparison to the DB its a tad less smooth... not much, but a tad). The lack of giving a crap enough to mention this to me angered me.

    WHen I called up Ken Swager (spelling) to ask him about doing a 4 sub setup in my pickup, I mentioned to him that I was very very pleased with my old 2 10" DX subs, but now i wanted 12" instead of 10's, and i wanted 4 of them... I was told that the GNX were a direct replacement for the DX, that they would actually be louder due to an increased sensitivity rating, and that I would notice little to no difference.

    ... it was at that point I began to lose confidence in the company.

    The speakers are no where near the same.

    later that month and for a while after, I saw many people posting in these very boards that they had blown their DX subs and as being under warranty, they were not sure about polk stating that they would be receiving GNX's as replacements... I scratched my head and sat there saying "no that can't be.... polk still has a stockpile of DX subs for warranty replacement"

    that month I purchased 4 DX 12's from polk for a 125 bucks each. they had more.

    i also just bought some more for my girlfriend's car about this spring.

    yet they kept giving kids GNX's for DX's... and i sat there boiling inside, as one after another they expressed distaste over the situation.

    then Thom your installer came in the forum and posted that he also believed they were a direct replacement and that he heard 4 GNX's do 150 db's in a vented box.

    good for your vented box Thom -- I did well over 150 with DX12's in a SEALED enclosure.

    but nobody seems to care. it doesn't matter that people drop 159 or 169 bucks on a sub, and then receive as warranty a sub that was going in crutchfield two for one at 149 (hence 75 each). or that it will carry less than half the RMS power, and has a cone that I couldn't sit a stuffed animal on without it bending and going to hell.

    then the GXR's were upon us, and i just about threw up my lunch.

    I have a friend who used to work at circuit city -- he is to this day, even after he's quit and moved on, the highest seller for car audio in the Western New York area for any CC store...

    I had asked him about the new polk stuff when it came out... his response was utter disgust, stating that he wouldn't sell it to his worst enemy and that he was losing money because most of the poeople who bought the new stuff based on teh polk name alone returned it -- and he lost his commission... which wasn't making him happy.

    I'm gonna stop ranting...

    in short --
    1-the product's top line needs to improve, not power wise, simply sound reproduction wise...

    also -- momo top line subs ought come in 8/ 10 / 12" sizes with dual 2 and dual 4 ohm coil setups instead of just single 4's. or at least make a single 4 and dual 4. that would also work.

    2-the midline ought reflect a quality of at least EXII / EXIII grade, and a reasonable price to boot (which hasn't seemed to be a problem). single 4 ohm coil versions would be all anyone would need... i'm not gonna wire up 8 EXII subs in my car... if i was.... i'd get two 1 ohm stable amps and call it a day.

    3-dont bother with a low line... nobody's gonna buy it and keep it, nobody's gonna respect it... and those who do buy it will be like "wow if polk souns this bad i'm not spending my money on their top line stuff" -- which is basically defeating the prupose of having an entry level line.

    4-do what you want with cosmetics... pretty, not pretty, i dont care...

    5-be more knowledgeable and honest about the product... if a certain model, whether its a repalcement for another or not, is lesser or better or whatever to another line, say it straight. Just be totally straight and honest...

    6-shoot for a target niche, find it, and stick with it... dont try to fly up into the clouds where u may not be able to hold altitude, and dont try to swim too low where the ricers will gobble you up... just find what works, and stick with it... develop within it.

    7-build another non-resonant casket basket set of components i can wear as shoes and drive 200 watts of power into without any worries at all.

    if you think i'm being too harsh -- try me -- send me a set of momo 6x9's ... a set of new db 6x9's ... and a 10" new style (the mid line not the top line) momo sub. i'll give them all a 7 day torture test... and you a full report on each at the end when i send them all back. they'll face the control group of DX 6x9's and a DX10 sub. i figure a 6x9 is usually the best test subject of a coaxial group, and a 10" sub is the best test subject of a 8 - 15" sub group.

    i'm always game.
    Last edited by PoweredByDodge; 07-06-2003 at 10:56 PM.
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

  25. #25

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    Originally posted by Al@polk
    There's a big misunderstanding here.

    I never said that the new lines (entry or step-up) were created to attract ONLY the Sport Compact crowd. Yes, the looks may be flashier than you would have previously seen from Polk. So what? It doesn't add to the cost.
    well you dont have to say it...when i say sport compact...im thinking about every teenager/person that dont really know what theyre doing buying speakers with a decision solely based on these things
    1. looks
    2. what the guy at best buy/circuit city says
    3. power rating
    and i really dont care how they look...in fact...i wished my momos were a dull black color and with the polk/momo logo imprinted on it...
    why?
    1. it has less chance of being stolen
    2. people are going to think thats crap when they see it...and when they hear it theyre going to be like holy crap i thought those were radio shack pos's

    Originally posted by Al@polk
    You are just as important to us as you've always been. The last thing we wnat to do is replace old customers with new. We hope to add new voices. They don't know as much as you but they're eager to learn.
    i hope were just as important...

    Originally posted by Al@polk
    The new Db and MOMO lines stand for the things that bought you to Polk in the first place. I sincerely hope that you will find "damn good quality for cheap" in both new lines.
    I hope so...but I really dont know...I'll tell you when i hear them...but this is helpful to polk that people dont think theyre going to be much...they might(and hopefully will) be in for a surprise

    Originally posted by Al@polk
    All I would ask at this point is that you not draw any conclusions before you hear them. After you hear them, let's talk. If you don't like them, I want you to tell me and tell me why. If you do like them, I want you to tell me. Deal?

    Al
    deal.
    -Cody

  26. #26

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    Al,

    First off, I want to say this.

    POLK AUDIO DOES NOT MAKE CRAP! They never have and I don't think they ever will. There is too much passion at polk to turn out something that truely is disgusting. The fact of the matter is, Polk Audio's crap can still compete with the best from some manufacturers. Simple thought here: If Polk Audio made crap, I would not be here.


    Now, business is business. You have to attract new buyers and new market segments. In car audio, I'm considered an old fart and I'm only 25. In home audio, I'm still a kid and eventhough I have more expansive knowledge about it that 90% of the professed experts, I still get treated like a kid. Hence the reason I stick more to car audio. There are no barriers to break aside from the generation gap. So I'm the old guy and I have expensive tastes which have come to me through experience and an ctual engineering background. But I'm not the new guy. The new guy is the 17 year old "Sport/Compact" owner (which I think sport/compact is a contradiction in terms) and they are riding the current fad. I am actually part of the generation that started teh sport compact fad but I have tastes that are mature beyond my years. Why, I'm not sure. Given that, it seems that I am stuck in a blind, change-hating rut. That is not true. The only new buyers are teh young guys so you have to go with what is hot with them. Without that, the product gets stale and it loses its customer base and becomes unprofitable. Why? Because the new guys see Polk Audio as an unattainable holy grail that only rich old guys can afford. We know that is not true. But without entry level products like what Polk Audio has been trying to put out, it will get labeled.

    So those new products are needed to keep educating the new buyers so they know what they are dealing with. That helps Polk Audio attract new customers. Attracting new customers grows a business. If the business doesn't grow, it can remain profitable but it is not a lucrative business investment. No financial backing, no way to have funds to stay in business. If you know anything about Silicon Graphics Inc. they are perfect example of being too big for thier britches. I would hate to see Polk Audio go that route. So it's good that Polk Audio is trying to grow the business and expand and personally, I believe that Polk Audio is capable of growing the business yet still remaining as committed to quality as they are now. Infact, I WANT that to happen. It will help drive down the cost of the expensive speakers that I like so that I can afford MORE of them!

    So no, Polk Audio is not a sellout. Wanting to make a profit and have a business that does what you love is not being a sellout. No matter what any pissy-pants little kid on the internet thinks. The world runs on money, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. Little crusades to keep mantras and idealologies pure are nice and whimsical but they don't put food on the table and a roof over your head and kids just don't understand that.

    Now if Polk Audio showed evidence of dropping quality and going to a cheaper manufacturer and cheaper parts and retained a premium price then I'd yell sellout and you'd never see me buying a Polk Audio product again. That is currently not the case and judging by past business practices, that will not be teh future either and I will remain loyal to Polk Audio because that is what I am looking for.

    The abandonment feeling comes from what seems to be the switch of focus from quality sound to quantity sound. The obvious switch, the huge amounts of advertising, the displays at shows and even the project cars shows that Polk Audio is going after the younger crowd. This sits badly with the Polk Audio veteren buyers for several reasons:

    Reason 1.) The MOMO line (barring recent releases) does not stack up to the DX line which didn't fully replace the dB line. It was lacking just a tad. The sound quality line seems to be dropping down the ladder a bit. With the push to the "sport/compact" market, it really does look like Polk Audio is "dumbing down" thier lines to appeal to the masses and has forgotten about those of us who share teh same passion and knowledge level about audio as Polk Audio.

    Reason 2.) The perception of the "sport/compact" world is that of a bunch of posers. This comes from the performance side of the market which is quite lacking. The "kids" talk about looks more than anything and alot of times, the cars that look fast are anemic, economy cars underneath. With the percieved reduction in quality sound mentioned in reason 1, it seems that the Polk Audio brand is heading that way too. In addition, the severe lack of technical knowledge possesed by even the "tunerz" of import and sport compact vehicles is atrocious. Most of the are subscribing to an image and not the actual act of being "tunerz" or a "hot rodder" and that doesn't sit well with the "hot rodders" or the hardcore audio guys like us. It cheapens the hobby. Also, the typical behavior tends to criminalize the hobbies and make a nuisance of themselves and that does not sit well either. Some, not all but some and a good portion of all is some, are ruining the hobbies for the rest of us. They are giving us techno-geeks a bad name. Hell, I have a factory hjot rod. An SVT Lightning, came from the factory the way it sits now. I get harassed by law-enforcement, called a "ricer" because the truck has clear tailight lenses and my stereo has been labeled as "annoying" by some because of the volume levels it is capable of achieving. Eventhough I do not street race, I do not play the stereo at levels that would be annoying or intrusive to nearby people and I do not subscribe to an image just make myself seem "unique". Again, with the reasons mention in Reason 1, it seems that Polk Audio is supporting if not justifying this abhorent behavior and lifestyle. That plays a big part. It's also part of teh reason why JL Audio gets such a bad rap here. It's all hype and Polk Audio is better than that.

    Reason 3.) Goes back to Reason 1 again. The percieved abandonment of sound quality and a higher standard leaves nothing to aspire to. Part of the reason I learned so much about audio was because what I started out with, I thought was really whiz-bang. Then I saw something better and it made me want to know more and strive for something more than just boom-boom which I wasn't into in the first place. I wanted to go for the best I could get. I started out with the EX line and lusted over the dB line. If Polk Audio starts marketing to the kids who want image more than substance then it stands to reason that quality will drop and the name will sell the speakers like it does for JL Audio. None of us want that and we are seeing the beginnings of that happening and we are yelling to get it to stop and tell you guys, that's not the road you want to go down!

    Where the speakers are sold makes no difference to me. Circuit City is reputable business. I have issues with thier "technical" staff but as a place to do business, I walk into a Circuit City on a regular basis because they offer choices and that is important. What I don't like seeing is that when I bought my EX speakers there was about 30 authorized Polk Audio dealers in the area. Now there is 1, Circuit City. I don't like that. What I also don't like is that Circuit City does not carry the full-line of anything Polk Audio and that is not good. You are not getting the proper market exposure for people to see you as a one-stop-shop for all your audio needs, home and automotive. That's what you are, play yourself up. That gets into the flashiness and the various lines so I will tell you what I think and what I would do shortly.

    As far as the flashy goes, personally, I don't need it. I like having more to it that what meets the eye. Flashy things are nice but form always follows function and sometimes the simplest form is a thing of pure beauty. You can make it flashy but, if you say it is simple to offer any color combo one wants to see, why not have a flashy model and a not so flashy model? Like, the MOMO Carbon series that was mentioned a few months ago. Instead of being bright silver, red and yellow, why not make it a dark gray or black, like carbon and give it the yellow MOMO and Polk Audio logos? Then the MOMO series could retain the flashy.

    It said my post was too long so I'll post two messages.

    What? I got alot to say!

  27. #27

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    Getting at that, I'll tell you want I would do with the car audio side like you asked:

    Number one, I'd make a good entry level lin with some inexpensive materials. I'd give them big power handling capabilities because that's what the people who are looking for cheap go for. They want noise and lots of it but I'd give them enough sound quality to be slightly better than the competition and give them a taste or something more than just boom. The GXR line is along those lines but they just don't cut the mustard. They don't handle enough power and they aren't sensitive enough. I've run Pyle speakers that would have put the GXR line to shame. That is saying something and trust me, it's not a good thing. BUT! I like the look of the GXR line. It's clean with some decoration that fits well. It's a good looking speaker albeit a tad cheap looking but I'd expect that from it's price point.

    Number two, I'd have a mid-level line. Something along the lines of the EX series. I wouldn't change much about it actually. It is the perfect mid-level line. Maybe more power handling but it offers a good balance between volume and quality. I would expand this line to include a full range of coaxials, mid-bass drivers, seperates and subs for both ported and sealed box and maybe even a "free-air" sub. That way, the entire market would be covered and there would be something more for those who wanted more than boom but didn't want to spend a fortune in search of a sound that they couldn't see the appreciation in. That is where the meat of the market is and where the people who have the bucks to spend are. These are the people who buy your home theaters and then want something better for thier minivan to keep the kids occupied on road trips or for something nice to listen to on that commute to work. So sell the mid-level line as your bread and butter. It'll sell better if you market it as a "more mature" line and get your name out there. At least I believe it will and I'd certainly talk it up because most of the people don't want the MOMO stuff. It's too expensive and way too over the top for them. I hope the new DB line fills that description. It looks like it might, I have to wait and see. I have qualms about the naming it the DB line since I have the same and I don't want to mis-lead people.

    Now, finally, the 3rd line would be MOMO. It's fine. But flashy wins competitions, plain jane fits everyday life when you don't want your "**** ganked and ripped-off" parking in downtown Baltimore everyday. SO! I propose two levels of the top end! Number one, MOMO Carbon series. Plain jane, high sound quality, good power handling, clean, inconspicous looks. Good for everyday use, audiophile quality. I'd just go with what worked in the past and ruggedize the home theater technology for the car with heavier cone materials and bigger magnets and layered voice coils to handle the extra power a car stereo would see. Then you would have something along the lines of the original dB which I would go for and love and cherish like I do my current dB speakers! (Sounds sick but it's an exaggeration to get a point across) The second would be either MOMO Comps or just MOMO and make them the flashy, red silver and yellow and given them huge magnets and beefy surrounds and high power handling. Make them audio power houses and go and kick the crap out of Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, MTX and everyone else in the dB Drag lanes! Going this route would allow you to also have something for serious competitors. If you had the MOMOs and the MOMO Carbon and then the MOMO Comps, the MOMO Comps could have replacable driver assemblies, surrounds and voice coils. Serious competition gear to give you one hell of a name in IASCA. You said it's making a comeback so go show the IASCA guys what Polk Audio can do. You start winning there, you'll sell more speakers than you think. Actions speak louder than words. You can say you are great and sell speakers but go and dethrone the current record holder in IASCA competition and people will beat down your door to pay top dollar for your drivers.

    I would offer a full line of speakers with bi-ampable coaxs and full range of component speakers with a super tweeter and drivers from 3.5 to 6.5 inches. Those would be for the top of the line MOMO's but not for the serious competitions speakers. I would not even offer coaxs for them. Just serious speakers and all round cones. No ovals.

    The amps, I'd offer more options. They seem stout already but I'd get a few more class D amps with at least one capable of 1000+ watts or more in a 2 ohm state. Hifonics can do it, so can you. The AB class amps would be offered in several stereo sizes ranging from 35 watts to 150 watts per channel. They could all be made in the same chassis to reduce cost but had different innards. The 4 channels would be the same with only two or three, maybe four options. AT least one 35w x4 a 60w x 4 and a 100w x 4 channel. The 4th option would be the 60w x 4 or 100w x 4 option with a class D 5th channel of 300+ watts of mono power at 4 ohms. Afterall, the new amps are snazzy but it was odd to me that the only major issue is the disparity between the power production of the amps and the mismatch to the power handling of the speakers. Basically, if I am going to offer amps, I'm going to offer amp choices that could power any line of speakers that I offer. Again, that one stop shop mentality.

    that is truely what I would do and it seems that you are heading down that path already. I hope Polk goes that way and I hope that you guys throw together some serious advertising to go with it. I want to see Polk Audio grow because I KNOW that Polk Audio is capable of being one of if not the BEST. They are already a market reference in Home Theater. The LSi line is what a 1500 dollar speaker should sound like, not the sorry excuses we have accepted for the past 3 decades. IMO, Polk Audio sets the standard and I make all other speaker purchases using Polk Audio speakers as my reference. I do it with great confidence too because I know Polk Audio has solid, consistent products and I'd like to keep doing it that way too.

    Please excuse my spelling and grammatical mistakes. It's starting to storm here and I want to post before the power dies on me. I'll fix my screw ups later.

  28. #28

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    take a breath between long winded post, LOL makes it hard to read, and read and read and read :D :D
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC

  29. #29
    Stronzo
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    Ah Jstas,

    You never write anymore. Did I loose my sexy appeal? ;)

  30. #30

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    john, what you do in private with your midbass drivers is your own business.

    [[[[[[[[[[You said it's making a comeback so go show the IASCA guys what Polk Audio can do. You start winning there, you'll sell more speakers than you think. Actions speak louder than words. You can say you are great and sell speakers but go and dethrone the current record holder in IASCA competition and people will beat down your door to pay top dollar for your drivers. ]]]]]]]]]]

    .... good point, polk would sell a LOT Of speakers then. one of the big knocks against current model polk gear is that while it sounds ok quality wise, it cannot, will not, and never will (according to some) hit high SPL levels. While I can sit there and say "I did 143 and change with two DX10's and an 860 watt amp", that tends not to change their minds... if you dont build a 750-1,000 watt rms sub these days, then you'd better be buildling fantastic SQ subs that are just over the top sound wise, else you're gonna get lost in the fray. hence the problem we're all getting back to -- polk has fallen into to the "just like everybody else" thing instead of being unique for its outstanding good ****.
    "With your own attitude it is hard to survive here... But who gives a damn, we are here to change the world, and we dont need a password for that."
    - Anurag

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