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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by vc69 View Post
    I have to say this as well... That AI pre isn't going to let the TFM shine like it could. There are several bottlenecks in front of it.
    Well I do have tubes to roll through the Audible Illusions. I've never really thought of it as a bottleneck because it's been such a great performer. Not to mention it has remained flexible with my gear through tube changes. and the phono section is pretty good.

    Have you had a bad experience with the a Modulus pre before?
    design is where science and art break even.

  2. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    Agreed there are some very nice pre's that you can use with the TFM-55
    Can you list a few that have worked for you?
    design is where science and art break even.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
    That's what i was going for. Again, as i said earlier in this thread, all ears are different, but i haven't found a silver cable in my setup that i liked. (No offense meant to Ben.)

    I like a warm, lush, full sound, even if it possibly means it comes at the expense of the best sparkling highs ever. Copper is what calls to me.

    Try the Audioquest cables you have, and see what you think. If they're lower than Sidewinders, i'd at least give Sidewinders a shot and see what you think. If you dont like them, Sidewinders rarely last more than a day in the for sale forum here before they're gone. Easy sell.

    Start there, go up. You can pry my Scarlet Vipers from my cold, dead hands.
    That's been my overall experience (so far) too, but I have 5 or 6 pairs of Ben's Silver IC's I'll never part with.

    And here's why: Like so many have said, it's all about synergy. Eventually you will have a situation or component that just won't sound quite right until silver IC's are put in place.

    It's the ultimate in fine-tuning, but once you get to a certain point, the various differences in inductance/capacitance/resistance of various cables will allow you to subtly tweak the sound quality of your system.
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  4. #184

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    There is just no way to jump into this hobby and do things quickly. I've been doing it for over 20 years and just recently found my little piece of nirvana and I'm sure I still have more to find.

    You just follow advice, try and evaluate different pieces until you find what you like. But the process is slow if you do it correctly. You can't just demo a piece or two for a couple weeks. And sometimes if you change something else in the chain you need to revisit pieces you have already evaluated and they may take on new life. I recently had this happen with a pair of tubes. I modded my DAC and now some tubes I didn;t especially care for are now my main tubes. It can be a like a dog chasing its tail sometimes, but if you are invested in the hobby and open to what moving up the chain can offer...........the rewards are very, very satisfying.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    That's been my overall experience (so far) too, but I have 5 or 6 pairs of Ben's Silver IC's I'll never part with.

    And here's why: Like so many have said, it's all about synergy. Eventually you will have a situation or component that just won't sound quite right until silver IC's are put in place.

    It's the ultimate in fine-tuning, but once you get to a certain point, the various differences in inductance/capacitance/resistance of various cables will allow you to subtly tweak the sound quality of your system.
    As a counterpoint. I had Ben's IC's and speaker cables and was disappointed in them for my rig. And my rig is very warm sounding. Even tried using them separately. They were no match for my MIT's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  6. #186

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    I use a Carver C-1 in my system. It sounded fantastic until I swapped it out with an updated Apt-Holman (new caps and op amps). The Apt was more detailed, bigger bass extension and more refined sounding. Then, while using the Apt I re-capped and upgraded op-amps on the Carver C-1. When that went back in to the system I was floored. Even more detail and refinement then the Apt-Holman. All this on Ben's silver cables. It took several months before the cables lost their initial brightness (either that or my ears got used to the sound) but I quite like them with my set up. I'm only using Ben's interconnects and not the silver speaker wires. My speaker wires are some kind of oxygen free copper wires I bought many years ago. Don't remeber the brand. Anyway even changes within a piece can result in a huge change in sound. Right now I'm very much enjoying my system with the Carver pre and amp with SDA 1C's combination.
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  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    As a counterpoint. I had Ben's IC's and speaker cables and was disappointed in them for my rig. And my rig is very warm sounding. Even tried using them separately. They were no match for my MIT's.

    H9
    Another ditto for you. Nothing against the cable itself or the build quality, they were put together very well, just didn't work in my setup, and like Heiney, my rig goes very far into the "warm" side as quite a few people will attest to.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    Can you list a few that have worked for you?
    Sure. Carver Research Lightstar Direct, Lexicon MC-1 both are older products but very well made with quality parts.

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    As a counterpoint. I had Ben's IC's and speaker cables and was disappointed in them for my rig. And my rig is very warm sounding. Even tried using them separately. They were no match for my MIT's.

    H9
    That's where I'm at now too. I only have one cable in the loop (including AC power cables) that's not an MIT.
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  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fongolio View Post
    I use a Carver C-1 in my system. It sounded fantastic until I swapped it out with an updated Apt-Holman (new caps and op amps). The Apt was more detailed, bigger bass extension and more refined sounding. Then, while using the Apt I re-capped and upgraded op-amps on the Carver C-1. When that went back in to the system I was floored. Even more detail and refinement then the Apt-Holman. All this on Ben's silver cables. It took several months before the cables lost their initial brightness (either that or my ears got used to the sound) but I quite like them with my set up. I'm only using Ben's interconnects and not the silver speaker wires. My speaker wires are some kind of oxygen free copper wires I bought many years ago. Don't remeber the brand. Anyway even changes within a piece can result in a huge change in sound. Right now I'm very much enjoying my system with the Carver pre and amp with SDA 1C's combination.
    INteresting about the C-1 upgrade. I am quite certain that my trials could have been with amps that needed a bit of work themselve. And I guarantee they hadn't had any since new. I almost wish I would have held on to them just for this thread, but hard to do through apartments and condos.townhomes with little to no storage
    design is where science and art break even.

  11. #191

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    I see a lot of people with MIT cables. And many mention the Shotguns. How would these cables rank against others in their price range
    design is where science and art break even.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    I see a lot of people with MIT cables. And many mention the Shotguns. How would these cables rank against others in their price range
    You need to spend a lot of time listening to your system to get a baseline feel for what your system sounds like before you start putting new cables in place.

    Imagine several bedsheets draped over the fronts of your your speaker cabinets, each slightly veiling the sound quality. For me, Shotgun S2's seemed to lift several of the layers of those sheets off of the speakers. As I accumulate more funds, I will move even higher up the ladder of MIT products.

    Many other brands may do the same, but Joe Abrams is a friend of the group who can help take the financial risk out of buying relatively expensive cables and interconnects. There is also an MIT sponsored test program where you can get some of their cables in your home to listen for yourself for only the cost of shipping the cables to the next guy on the list.
    Last edited by inspiredsports; 12-23-2010 at 10:17 PM.
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  13. #193

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    Man, I'll tell you what. When we were up to Lou's and hooked his Amazings up to my Silver 9t's with all Shotgun S3's... Dayum, Well let's just say it was rockin. That is until Sal shredded those two woofers with some Bjork...
    I smell ass, burning ass, glowing cherry red spanked ass.

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  14. #194

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    There is also an MIT sponsored test program where you can get some of their cables in your home to listen for yourself for only the cost of shipping the cables to the next guy on the list.
    That has ended, but may start up again next year.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    Many other brands may do the same, but Joe Abrams is a friend of the group who can help take the financial risk out of buying relatively expensive cables and interconnects. There is also an MIT sponsored test program where you can get some of their cables in your home to listen for yourself for only the cost of shipping the cables to the next guy on the list.
    Oh, I see. Well that is helpful. I was looking at shotgun IC's on some sites and are just a bit out of my price range for a while...
    design is where science and art break even.

  16. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    Oh, I see. Well that is helpful. I was looking at shotgun IC's on some sites and are just a bit out of my price range for a while...
    They are not cheap, and are sometimes criticized for it, but a lot of R&D is involved to get everything just right. You will find some great deals in the Classifieds section from time to time.

    I've personally come to grips with the realization that I have to treat cables as components in my quest for better sound. My rig is in my home office so I listen for about 8 hours a day and that's how I justify the big numbers you can spend on power, interconnect and speaker cables.

    I just found the thread about the loaner set MIT was allowing CP members to audition and we sure dropped the ball!
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  17. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    You need to spend a lot of time listening to your system to get a baseline feel for what your system sounds like before you start putting new cables in place.
    Agreed I think once you get your main system components in place then worry about nicer IC'c and speaker cables, the better cables will just make a nice system even better with more clarity detail etc.



    Regards Snow
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  18. #198

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    Hope everyone had a very merry Christmas!

    I spent some time (actually, a LOT of time) this weekend swapping and listening. more swapping, more listening. Let me say first that this amp sounds different than I remember. I actually took notes on some of my listening and am assembling it all now so I can give a coherent review of my experience. Unfortunately I don't have time to do that tonight so it will likely be tomorrow.
    design is where science and art break even.

  19. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    Hope everyone had a very merry Christmas!

    I spent some time (actually, a LOT of time) this weekend swapping and listening. more swapping, more listening. Let me say first that this amp sounds different than I remember. I actually took notes on some of my listening and am assembling it all now so I can give a coherent review of my experience. Unfortunately I don't have time to do that tonight so it will likely be tomorrow.
    Great looking forward to your review good or bad

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  20. #200

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    Just get an emerson or Yorx or even better yet, since we all like to relax listening to our audio, you could pick this up. It is a 8-track bed. It is also available in IL. http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-RETRO-TW...item3f061389a0

  21. #201

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    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=

    You might read up on how Bob made his amp indistinguishable from two high- buck amps in a Stereophile magazine hosted challenge. (if you haven't already done so ) A LOT of people are in serious denial about the outcome, please,please, be gentle with them and their fragile psyche if you become a Carver ________ !

  22. #202

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    Here's another take on it to be fair.

    Back in the 80s, Bob Carver issued an amplifier challenge to Stereophile Magazine. The gist of it was that Bob claimed that he could transform the sound of one his solid-state amps (I can't recall the exact model) to mimic that of an expensive tube amp of the Magazine's own choosing. So here we were huddled in JGH's listening room in Santa Fe, with Bob on his hands and knees tinkering with his circuitry so as to match the sonics of a very expensive Conrad-Johnson power amp. I've got to hand it to Carver - that's some bravado and one hell of a publicity stunt. Nice try, Bob, but no cigar. At the time, Larry Archibald and JGH seemed to think that Carver had in fact succeeded. But to my ears, Carver had merely managed to reduce the damping factor of his amp; in essence making it sound as loose and uncontrolled in the bass range as the Conrad-Johnson. There was still a large residual difference in the midrange. - Dick Ohlsher
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  23. #203

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    Little surprise there, from what I gather, Dickey only respects tubes.

  24. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdb View Post
    Little surprise there, from what I gather, Dickey only respects tubes.
    Except he has great praise for a certain SS designer's amplifiers. So that doesn't really hold water does it?

    Some 20 years later, I can report that Nelson Pass has succeeded where Bob Carver has failed: the Aleph 30 enjoys a healthy dose of tube magic in the midrange. - Dick Olsher

    It's just one person's POV, no one is really right or wrong.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  25. #205

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    Bob definitely had some great designs and I respect him as an audio guru, always have. But the whole Stereophile thing was just about dick measuring and publicity, IMO.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  26. #206

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    It seems to me that the scientific "community" has always needed/had a whipping boy through the ages. I guess Bob was/is one of em. Tesla is probably having a good laugh right about now!

  27. #207

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    Is Bob related to you? You sure seem to have an agenda. Some of his "whipping boy" status you proclaim was bought on himself. His tireless self-promotion certainly could have rubbed people the wrong way. Not everyone can be modest and just persue the hobby and let the gear speak for itself, some have to be like Bob and add a "circus" effect (for lack of a better term). Sometimes this worked well, but sometimes it back-fired too.

    Certainly one of the top 10 audio guru's of all time and he added a lot to the hobby, etc. No shame in that.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  28. #208

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    Nah, I wish. I just like his moxey and gear and don't enjoy seeing him given the good old Bose/Monster treatment. Not saying that you've done that but there's some that do.

  29. #209

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    He certainly doesn't deserve the Bose/Monster treatment, that I'll agree with 100%. He had/has far too many important and real contributions to audio for that kind of treatment. I still have enormous respect for him, just question some of his motives and antics early on. Wish him no ill will or disrespect, just was showing both sides of the "challenge" outcome.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  30. #210

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    That's cool.

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