Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 74
  1. #31

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    It's not a matter of louder, it's a matter of better. You lose a lot of dynamic range as the Sony ES you have now is current-limiting. If you get any deep lows (which is not 100% dependent on volume), the receiver will current-limit and you will have a loss of quality.
    It's not going to hurt you, but you are not running 100% of what the speakers are capable of, and can possibly damage your speakers given the right circumstances. The Sony ES receivers were only designed to tolerate 4 ohm loads, not run effectively with them. I had a 555ES and it worked with 4 ohm loads (Magnepans), however switching to a dedicated amplifier opened them up to their full potential. Remember, it's not just volume, it's dynamic headroom, and current. Also - your receiver isn't really discrete, since it still only has one power supply shared among all the amplifiers in it. No receiver really is.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  2. #32

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B Run View Post
    Your friend couldn't be more incorrect honestly. I don't think any of those receivers are even rated to drive 4ohm speakers, and it can damage them. You really should look into a nice receiver with preouts and a used amp. It'll be a night and day difference in sound quality, it's not just about volume.
    You're correct on the Denon...it's only rated down to 6ohm. However, the Onkyo NR-709 is rated for 4ohm. http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=f

    "Certified 4ohm performance"

    It also has pre-outs in case I want to add amps later. Considering its ceritifed for 4ohm, much newer than I have now and I dont currently have any problems, and it's rated for a little higher power even, I shouldn't have much problem then right?

  3. #33

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Thanks for the info. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything that would damage my speakers. Seeing that the Onkyo NR-709 is certified on 4ohm there shouldn't be a risk of damage right? My budget is $500-600 so I think separate amplication is out of my budget currently. Maybe start with the NR-709...don't drive it super hard and then down the road I can get amps if I want better performance since the 709 has pre outs. Sound like a reasonable plan?

  4. #34

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    16,039

    Default

    Running a full LSI setup off a receiver is very risky. Your most likely doing damage to the speakers or receiver or both. Thing is, once the damage is done, it's done. Speakers aren't cheap these days so unless you have plenty of coin to keep throwing at them, invest in an amp for 4 ohm speakers or at least do some research on powering them before you go out and buy a 4 ohm speaker.

    The 709 is still not enough. Get your read on. Receivers limit current on 4 ohms, when you should be looking to increase current.

  5. #35

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default

    So what's the cheapest effective way to power them? Would I need separate amp for ALL channels or doing the fronts good enough and receiver handle the others?

  6. #36

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    The cheapest way? Buy a NAD receiver. It will power your full LSi setup, but probably not to the fullest. They are certified (most of them) to run 4 ohms, and not current limiting.

    The most effective way? Buy a 5 channel amplifier to power them. Even Emotiva (yeah..yeah..) will do better than your receiver.

    Here's one: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...plifier/1.html
    It's just an example too. There are many choices out there, especially used.


    Don't skimp, or the next post we'll see is your tweeters are fried on your LSi setup.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  7. #37

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    36

    Default amp

    How about an adcom gfa 7605 125w into 80hms 174 into 40hms . Would this work? Would it help on rti a1 fr and fxi3 bck and csi a4 cnt.

  8. #38

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by agco View Post
    How about an adcom gfa 7605 125w into 80hms 174 into 40hms . Would this work? Would it help on rti a1 fr and fxi3 bck and csi a4 cnt.
    Yes it would work very well. How big of an improvement depends on your current receiver.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  9. #39

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    36

    Default

    sony str da 3600 es.Thought of just getting a nad t765hd. Just trien to figure which would be better.

  10. #40

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Noob here.... I jsut got a pair of LSi25's and was wondering two things.

    1. Do I really need a separate amp for these? They come with their own. I would think with a good avr rated at 4 ohms and pre-outs direct to the LSI i'd be good. not perfect but pretty good.
    2. What are some good avr's rated for 4-ohms?

    welcome the feedback!

  11. #41

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Galveston
    Posts
    2,984

    Default

    The onboard amps are only for the subs, Nad and Onkyo have 4 ohm stable amps....I dont like the Onkyo to run the 25's have not heard them on the Nad...beware to get the best out of these speakers without damage look for seperates
    Home Theater:Samsung8000-55LED,Pioneer SC35, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Sunfire TGA7201, LSi25, LCi RTSc, LC80i
    2chnl system:Melody 101 tube pre, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, W4S Dac, MG Audio Planus2 speaker cables
    Office rig: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures

  12. #42

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    16,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NickyRuggs View Post
    Noob here.... I jsut got a pair of LSi25's and was wondering two things.

    1. Do I really need a separate amp for these? They come with their own. I would think with a good avr rated at 4 ohms and pre-outs direct to the LSI i'd be good. not perfect but pretty good.
    2. What are some good avr's rated for 4-ohms?

    welcome the feedback!
    Nguyendot- point....match bro. In the same thread yet.

  13. #43

    Member Sales Rating: (19)

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Kansas City KS/Central IA
    Posts
    5,623

    Default

    I watched two movies tonight running my LSi HT at fairly high volume and my B&K AVR 507s2 didn't even break a sweat. Great sound quality and dynamics also. You just need the right AVR to run LSi's, unfortunately that's a pretty small selection these days.
    DKG999
    -----------------------------------------
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  14. #44

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Nguyendot- point....match bro. In the same thread yet.
    I guess it was worth it for one person..lol.

    As stated by txcoastal - the inputs only power the subs. The mid/high section is still 4 ohms, and still needs separate amps. To DKG999, B&K and NAD do not fall into the same category that 99% of the receivers that people purchase. I did mention NAD in my OP. It will run them, and your LSi setup is fairly small (LSi9/7/c). Still, to get the most out of them it's best to get separates, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200w/channel.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  15. #45

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    16,039

    Default

    Yep, a 3 grand receiver thats built like seperates Doug isn't comparable to an Onkyo mid line receiver. Now their top one may do well but I suspect if the guy had that coin, he could buy a receiver and an amp no problem.

    Unless you have a higher end receiver, get an amp for the LSI series. That is if you want to hear what you payed for in those speakers.

  16. #46

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Thanks for the replies, I get the point of getting a separate amp, so a 2 channel amp rated for 4 ohms? Th also means I need to get a new AVR with preouts for L/R, correct? The question now becomes will a Denon or Onkyo suffice here?

  17. #47

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    2,011

    Default

    It took 220wpc to make my RTi12s do what they are supposed to do. 4 ohms means "high current" or there is gonna be a problem.
    "My wife likes my rig......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"


    B&W CDM 1NT; B&W CDM CNT; Infinity us 1; Velodyne DEQ-8 x2; Pio Elite VSX-23; Sony SCD-CE595 SACD, Denon DP11-F TT[/COLOR]

  18. #48

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Quincy, MA
    Posts
    11,636

    Default

    If you have no plans to add more LSI's then yes an amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms will suffice. So long as the Denon or Onkyo has preouts they will be ready to add the amp. As for amps, check Audiogon for Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, Carver, Sunfire, Rotel, Adcom, NAD, B & K.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  19. #49

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Well whatever you do, do NOT get the Onkyo TX-NR609 like I did; did research on it but the one little tidbit I never saw was that there was NO output for a preamp. Kinda stinks because now I'm limited to what I can get for speakers. Buyer beware!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  20. #50

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Thats why we make a huge point to check for preouts on receivers. Unless you want to never upgrade, pre-outs are a necessity.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  21. #51

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nguyendot View Post
    Thats why we make a huge point to check for preouts on receivers. Unless you want to never upgrade, pre-outs are a necessity.
    I know, it was a silly mistake on my end. In any case why wouldn't they put a pre-out on such a feature-rich, newer receiver? That should practically be standard on every receiver unless I'm missing the reason why they wouldn't.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  22. #52

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Cost is the main reason. The NR609 isn't a high end receiver by any means, it's mid-low. You have to go to the 7xx and 8xx series or higher to get pre-outs. And with the higher perceived power rating on those, mid-line pricing, and demographic that generally purchases that level of receiver, pre-outs are becoming even more scarce. Why? Because manufacturers know that 95% of those purchasing will not use the pre-out, they'll either purchase a higher end receiver, or don't want to spend the extra dough.

    It's all economics and market placement. Pre-outs were standard 20 years ago, but now they're being done away with except on higher end and specialized equipment. Remember, we're part of that 5%.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  23. #53

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nguyendot View Post
    Cost is the main reason. The NR609 isn't a high end receiver by any means, it's mid-low. You have to go to the 7xx and 8xx series or higher to get pre-outs. And with the higher perceived power rating on those, mid-line pricing, and demographic that generally purchases that level of receiver, pre-outs are becoming even more scarce. Why? Because manufacturers know that 95% of those purchasing will not use the pre-out, they'll either purchase a higher end receiver, or don't want to spend the extra dough.

    It's all economics and market placement. Pre-outs were standard 20 years ago, but now they're being done away with except on higher end and specialized equipment. Remember, we're part of that 5%.
    Yea, I guess you are right. Never really thought about it from that perspective.

    Slightly OT: would the 609 drive a CSi A6? Thank you :).
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  24. #54

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Yes it will drive it just fine. You can always do better, only you can decide if it's good enough for you. I ran the NR807 and it powered all 5 of my speakers fine. Given my front stage had 98-100db sensitivity ratings so power wasn't a huge issue. I still tried power amps, and have mine waiting for the day when LSi's roll around.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  25. #55

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nguyendot View Post
    Yes it will drive it just fine. You can always do better, only you can decide if it's good enough for you. I ran the NR807 and it powered all 5 of my speakers fine. Given my front stage had 98-100db sensitivity ratings so power wasn't a huge issue. I still tried power amps, and have mine waiting for the day when LSi's roll around.
    Thanks man, much appreciated. Hopefully it plays nice with my Paradigm's because I really would be a sad sap if I had to part with them. Thanks!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  26. #56

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    To be honest, your Paradigms are a class or two above your receiver.. I'd sell it and upgrade honestly. You have enough power, but Paradigm Reference are refined speakers....and demand a refined source of power.
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

  27. #57

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nguyendot View Post
    To be honest, your Paradigms are a class or two above your receiver.. I'd sell it and upgrade honestly. You have enough power, but Paradigm Reference are refined speakers....and demand a refined source of power.
    Yea, I'm, highly contemplating on doing that. Just not sure what to go for under the $500 price range. Will check out Denon or maybe the next step up with Onkyo. Thanks man!!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  28. #58

    Member Sales Rating: (19)

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Kansas City KS/Central IA
    Posts
    5,623

    Default

    I have the Paradigm Reference Studio 20v3 in a 2 ch office system. Until those tweeters have about 400 hrs on them, they are going to be pretty shrill with that Onkyo AVR. My NAD C720BEE receiver drives the Paradigm's just fine, however it has huge dynamic power reserves despite it's modest WPC rating.
    DKG999
    -----------------------------------------
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  29. #59

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkg999 View Post
    I have the Paradigm Reference Studio 20v3 in a 2 ch office system. Until those tweeters have about 400 hrs on them, they are going to be pretty shrill with that Onkyo AVR. My NAD C720BEE receiver drives the Paradigm's just fine, however it has huge dynamic power reserves despite it's modest WPC rating.
    My uncle had those speakers for a long time and they got good use out of them. So they're well broken in I'm sure. They do sound fine however, its just my center channel is lacklusting; need a little more "umph" and "whamph". CS1 I bought back in 2005.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX

  30. #60

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    3,195

    Default

    Find a used SC-25 Pioneer elite....
    Main Surround -
    Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub

    Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250

    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. $500-$800 with preouts
    By K-daugh in forum Electronics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-12-2010, 04:34 AM
  2. Need Help Pre/Pro or Receiver with preouts
    By craigpsu in forum Electronics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-29-2009, 06:37 PM
  3. Use of preouts
    By NeilGabriel in forum Electronics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 07:13 PM
  4. Sub from preouts?
    By Airplay355 in forum 2 Channel Audio
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-01-2005, 10:03 PM
  5. 6.1 receiver or More with preouts?
    By MxStYlEpOlKmAn in forum Electronics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-25-2003, 02:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts