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  1. #1

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    Default VPI Scout TT mat ???

    Guys,I have a scout with the standard acrylic platter,,300 rpm motor upgrade,anti skate,,and JMW memorial tonearm,and Joe's clamp,with that said,whats the consensus regarding mats.Thank you kindly.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Negative on the mat.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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    I have a Scout TT and have tried lots of different configurations. I haven’t tried a mat but you may want to check Agon and AudioAsylum forums for other comments. What I found has been:

    - Make sure the plinth is isolated on a solid table
    - If possible, set the tension on the plinth feet the same and level the table the plinth sits on
    - Ensure your spindle to pivot distance is 223mm. Get a Mint LP protractor and good magnification to use it. It’s worth the money.
    - Use a non-elastic thread drive belt instead of the supplied ‘rubber band’. You will need some form of electronic speed control to feed the motor about 63Hz to get the correct platter speed. A PS Audio P300 works well for this. Monofilament fishing line is too slippery; silk thread worked the best or thick carpet/sewing thread. Use a blood knot for its low profile. I will never again use a stretchy material for a belt after using thread.
    - Periphery ring clamp
    - Signature tonearm is much better than the standard.

    I would suggest to start with the first four points.

    The biggest difference thus far has been making a new plinth from a self damping material. This had been a risky venture with an unknown result as no one else has tried this but has been well worth the cost and effort.

    picture

    Audio qualia
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    ^ Is that a Corian plinth?

    GD,
    Are you looking to address a specific issue, or just asking in general?

    Agree in general with BDT... a mat kinda works against your clamp. However, were static a major issue, an anti-stat mat can help.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

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    Thanks guys,, no static issues,,TT is on a 1.5 inch maple base,,motor is connected to a medical grade transformer based PS.Ocassionally I have heard what I would describe as "motor noise" between tracks,and if I tap on the plinth,it kinda reasonates thru the speakers.I'll experiment with some type of damping (such as a mousepad) under the motor.I appreciate the replies.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    I really like my Herbie's Sound Labs Way Excellent II mat. Seems to help with bass extension and detail. I use it on both my main rig tables.

    http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm
    SDA-1C (full mods)
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  7. #7
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    Rumble can be a bitch... Isolating the motor to eliminate an external vibration route sounds like a plan to me. What's your rig sitting on, i.e., particle board shelf, wood cabinet, glass? You may need a denser material, e.g., marble.

    The main bearing is also a potential cause. If your motor isolation yields no improvement, I'd check this next.

    That your plinth tapping is picked up is not surprising. Where is the arm when you've done this? Is this during play or with the arm on its rest? If either of these, use the arm lift to suspend the arm in mid-air and tap. I don't know the Scout, but from a cursory look at Scout pics the tone arm pivot looks as or more susceptable to plinth vibration pick up than the platter.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner

    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

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    I don't think it's the motor, I mean, the motor is isolated from the plinth. I'm suspecting that it's the bearing. Drop a little Slick 50 in there and see how that works.

    I've not had any issues with the Scoutmaster, however, get in touch with DAGLJAM6, his little isolation bricks are pretty amazing.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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    Thanks guys--hmmm,, never thought of slick 50,,, although my father swore by it.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    Thanks guys--hmmm,, never thought of slick 50,,, although my father swore by it.
    What ever you use, make sure its high viscosity so it doesn't run (fall) out of the inverted bearing leaving it dry.

    Is there enough lithium grease in the bearing now? I will reassemble my VPI plinth and tap it to see if I have any resonance issues. I don't recall hearing any 'motor' noise between tracks.
    Last edited by jm1; 12-28-2010 at 11:38 AM.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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    What is the sound that you are experiencing sound like? I have recently begun hearing a tapping or knocking sound when the needle is tracking, in between tracks or during very quiet parts of tracks....
    (SDA-1c with 194s, sonicaps, mills, cardas bps)
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  12. #12
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! No mat, just couple the record to the platter with the clamp and you have the finest in damping etc.

    +1 on the bearing and lubing it up a bit!
    Last edited by hearingimpared; 12-28-2010 at 12:19 PM.

  13. #13

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    Just recalled this. Your belt might be grabbing. Have a look at this post.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...1&postcount=93
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post
    Just recalled this. Your belt might be grabbing. Have a look at this post.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...1&postcount=93
    If it is a grabbing belt and you use the talcum power (which I use) method laid out by John, make absolutely sure you use "scentless" talcum power. I've found that the added chemical used for scenting power is too slick.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
    ... the motor is isolated from the plinth.
    Directly, yes, but not externally through whatever they are sitting upon…
    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
    Drop a little Slick 50 in there and see how that works.
    I laughed, but you're serious? Never heard of using Slick 50, but seems plausible.

    If it’s a bearing issue, I’d clean the well and inspect the bearing before adding lube… and I’d at least consider the lube VPI recommends… which appears to be:
    Quote Originally Posted by AudioKarma Thread
    In response to an e-mail asking what they recommend, VPI replied that they use white lithium based grease on their inverted bearings and Mobil 1 or fishing-reel oil on their other bearings. Nothing too exotic here.
    jm1,
    I ask again, “Is that a Corian plinth?”

    gd,
    There was a laboratory supply place that delivered marble slabs for analytical balances on the cheap. Google is not producing it (on page 1 anyway) and link is buried in the back up to my defunct Dell PC. If I come across it, I will post it. But of course your local countertop installers are an option. Sink/ cooktop cutouts are about the right size.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSWisla View Post
    I have recently begun hearing a tapping or knocking sound when the needle is tracking, in between tracks or during very quiet parts of tracks....
    gd, is hearing rumble... think mill stone rolling. Your sound may be a drive belt issue.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner

    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

  16. #16
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    Bruce when I spoke to VPI's customer service four years back they told me any good heavy motor oil grade would do just fine as long as I didn't go crazy . . . a drop on the shaft, one in the well and one on the bearing was what was recommended. I did that and it worked very well however, I was able to get a free bottle of VPI's bearing lube and used that. My next try is to clean out the well, bearing and shaft and use a bike chain lube that jm1 sent me. He raved about its benefits.

  17. #17

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    There is no "well" for an inverted bearing used by the newer VPI platters. This is why you need lithium grease or a high viscosity oil so it doesn't flow out of the inverted bearing mechanism leaving it dry.

    Tour,

    Follow the link for info. Corian rings like a bell so I would never use it for anything audio related.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

  18. #18
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    John, I'm having a brain fart here. My platter (TNT) is of the inverted bearing ilk. I"m sure Mike from VPI recommended a drop in the well or I could be thinking of my old MK II platter. UGH!!!! I hate it when I can't think straight!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    John, I'm having a brain fart here. My platter (TNT) is of the inverted bearing ilk. I"m sure Mike from VPI recommended a drop in the well or I could be thinking of my old MK II platter. UGH!!!! I hate it when I can't think straight!
    This web page has a good picture of the inverted bearing you can "click" to zoom into.

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/38...ntable_Upgrade
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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  20. #20
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    Looking at the pic the TNT is not an inverted bearing shaft. I was wondering why Mike at VPI said the super platter wouldn't fit my TT, I thought it was because it was too big.

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    Okay,,today I'm off to get some sewing thread and lithium grease,,and will be practicint the bloodknot.Last night I did use the "talcum powder in a bag",,checked the speed,,and left the bag in the kitchen,,and I then hear this George,, as my wife had found the bag and wondered what it was,,I guess you had to be there to appreciate it,lol.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    Okay,,today I'm off to get some sewing thread and lithium grease,,and will be practicint the bloodknot.Last night I did use the "talcum powder in a bag",,checked the speed,,and left the bag in the kitchen,,and I then hear this George,, as my wife had found the bag and wondered what it was,,I guess you had to be there to appreciate it,lol.
    Priceless! Thanks.

    motor is connected to a medical grade transformer based PS
    If you can't vary the Hz output frequency on the power supply, you will not be able to use thread drive as the platter will turn too sssllloooooowww.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    Looking at the pic the TNT is not an inverted bearing shaft. I was wondering why Mike at VPI said the super platter wouldn't fit my TT, I thought it was because it was too big.
    All the current VPI platters use this same bearing. Not sure what you have.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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    LOL… I can picture that, gd.

    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post
    There is no "well" for an inverted bearing used by the newer VPI platters. This is why you need lithium grease or a high viscosity oil so it doesn't flow out of the inverted bearing mechanism leaving it dry.
    Not even an inverted “well”? According to Stereophile they had one as recently as 2003. Even in newer models the shaft and the bearing that sits atop it slide into something… Either that or VPI has invented one hell of a balancing act…
    Quote Originally Posted by stereophile.com 16 Feb 2003
    The Scout has an inverted bearing, the well of which is machined from sintered bronze…
    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post
    Tour, Follow the link for info. Corian rings like a bell so I would never use it for anything audio related.
    Times change… not long ago Corian was the rage for speaker baffles, arm boards, etc.

    Got it… laminated wood… Do I see a hint of laminate lines running front to back? Appears to be a great number of 1/8” or so slats laying on their sides…

    One last Slick 50 thought… I saw it mentioned in some AK posts, so it seems it’s not uncommon to use it for TT’s. If it contains chloroparafins (as STP did), then I’d stay away from it. I worked in a plant that made “chlorowax” in my younger days... nasty stuff. Corrosion inhibitors have to be added to tame it for use and most end uses are in fairly diluted state.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

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    I can't remember who told me to use Slick 50...but it was someone reputable...for the life of me can't remember though. That said, I've been using it since I got the first VPI.

    Gotcha re the isolated motor and the platform it sits on.....and it's damn near impossible to eliminate all the sources of rumble. It's just the nature of the beast.

    That is too funny about the powder. PRICELESS.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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    Quote Originally Posted by jm1 View Post
    All the current VPI platters use this same bearing. Not sure what you have.
    My TNT platter is not inverted John.

    Doesn't the inverted bearing type have to fit in an inverted well? How else would it stay upright?

    EDIT: Duh never mind the next post answered my question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
    I can't remember who told me to use Slick 50...but it was someone reputable...for the life of me can't remember though. That said, I've been using it since I got the first VPI.

    Gotcha re the isolated motor and the platform it sits on.....and it's damn near impossible to eliminate all the sources of rumble. It's just the nature of the beast.

    That is too funny about the powder. PRICELESS.

    BDT
    The worse offender for rumble is just the energy from the speakers hitting the TT/tonearm/cartridge. The only way around that is to have your turntable in another room. Back in the '80s I had my whole rig wire through a wall in another room to keep the airborne energy of the speakers (especially the SDA/SRSs) from hitting all the components.

    Another cause which can be avoided that people bring upon themselves is closing the dust cover while listening to LPs. It's like sticking your head in a drum without playing it but the drum getting hit by the airborne energy of the rest of the band.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tour2ma View Post
    Not even an inverted “well”? According to Stereophile they had one as recently as 2003. Even in newer models the shaft and the bearing that sits atop it slide into something… Either that or VPI has invented one hell of a balancing act…
    The spindle mounts to the plinth and points upwards, the sleeve is set into the platter. Not sure I would call any part a well as this has other implications.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
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    Quiet on the set….. Places people….. Mark….

    TurntableBusters Scene 23 Take 1


    CLAP

    … and ACTION


    jm1: Not sure I would call any part a well as this has other implications.

    Tour: First, who are those people behind you? Second, what implications??? Do you mean suffering communication accuracy through the use of turntable terminology that dates back to the 50’s? Or do you mean…

    Dr. Peter Venkman: …the fact that this forum is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

    Tour: What do you mean, "biblical"?

    Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Tour – real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!

    Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

    Winston Zeddmore: The dead rising from the grave!

    Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

    Tour: Enough! I get the point! And what if you're wrong? What if george has a bearing issue? Won’t he be risking further damage, if he does not clean the well that you at first said does not exist and now simply won't acknowledge because the term does not fit some self -imposed paradigm?

    Dr. Peter Venkman: If we're wrong, then nothing happens. We go to jail, peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if we're right, and we can stop this thing...Tour – [Tour looks at him incredulously.] you will have saved the lives of millions of registered CPer’s.

    Cut..... That's a wrap.....
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
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    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

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    Now this is entertainment,,where else can you find this short of Hollowood,,eh?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

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