so where is our psw-808

**J9_ls1** · 07-24-2003 11:48 PM

Isn't this supposed to be released by now? If not now, it is supposed to be close to August right?

**organ** · 07-25-2003 12:08 AM

If I remember correctly, it's being pushed back until this fall. I'm going to try to demo the 808 and see if it's that much better than the 650.

Maurice

**Dr. Spec** · 07-25-2003 08:16 AM

Originally posted by organ
If I remember correctly, it's being pushed back until this fall. I'm going to try to demo the 808 and see if it's that much better than the 650.

Maurice

It will be a large improvement over the 650. In fact the 505 will give a 650 a run for the money.

I think the 808 will be a very respectable sub in terms of power extension and SQ.

Doc

**VR3** · 07-25-2003 10:41 AM

If it dosnt play 110db it can sit on a log and rot. If it can't hit to 20hz or below it can suck my big toe. If it has tons of port turbulance it can kiss my dog. I don't care for Polk subwoofers. I have yet to hear a *good* one. Their alright, but I'm tired of hearing this boom machine that shames their speakers. Polk would sell alot more speaker system if they had better subwoofers. IMO. Maybe the 808 will be an unmatched quality.
I'll take the SVS over the Polk anyday. But man that finish is friggin awesome. LSi finish on a sub! Su-weeeeeeeeet! Although, it is on the floor - hope your not clumbsy!

**goingganzo** · 07-25-2003 10:50 AM

and the 808 i bet will be around 800-1000 bucks for that you can get a real sweet sub i bet my sub will distroy 2 808 hands down

**VR3** · 07-25-2003 10:56 AM

Polk needs to get rid of these friggin 10 inch woofers and get something *REAL*. WTH is up with that?????
I know they are more accurate than a 12 inch woofer.
But any high quality 12 inch woofer, or 15...heck even a HQ 18 inch woofer is good. I wouldnt buy the 808 on principle of the 10's. I prefer *atleast* a 12. 12's move ALOT more air in comparison. Dual 12's, the PSW-1200 is a good example.
Dual 18's would be awesome! I would have to get in on that kinda action!
Polk,
Drop the 10's and get something worth a rant please. Ya'll sell alot more subwoofers. IMO.

**J9_ls1** · 07-25-2003 08:57 PM

Is it due out by August? I am thinking about just calling a rep and seeing if they know an approximate release date.

**fireshoes** · 07-25-2003 10:21 PM

Sid, I thought you had gotten over the driver size thing? :)

**VR3** · 07-25-2003 10:32 PM

Well, until you can show me a 6.25 inch woofer that can play louder without the surround imploding, I won't change my attics.
I have heard 8 inch woofers. Not enough SPL.
Heard a Velo HGS 10 inch, large amounts of SPL, but large amounts of THD at low exstention. The Velo also cost 1,400. The Polk will cost no more than 1,000 and will sport 2. Which means less costly drivers. Less costly amps. ETC - The 808 will not be anything special. IMO.

Wilson Audio's Subwoofer sports a 10 inch. It is rated average and cost bundles. If it sported a 19 like its bigger brother, which holds dual 19's it would be highly rated. BTW - Its not. If it was, then possibly I would change my mind about small drive subs if they had a 4,000 dollar driver in it!!

I prefer a 12 inch woofer over anything. Because I feel a subwoofer is not anything smaller than a 10. I also believe a 10 inch subwoofer is REALLY pushing the definetion of a subwoofer. Doc can lay down specs, lay outs, whatever he wishes. I have yet to *see* a 10 inch sub or smaller lay down the SPL. But they are accurate. No Doubt.

If 10's were as good as 12's or close to, SVS would use them.......do they?

**dorokusai** · 07-26-2003 02:15 AM

I want a Bose subwoofer.....it has 20, 4 inch woofers in a tuned port enclosure, that brings frequency response to a whopping 175hz!!!!!

HOLY ****E!!!!

That SOB would shake the.....well move the....hmmmm....let me know that there was bass!!

:)

**Dr. Spec** · 07-26-2003 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Heard a Velo HGS 10 inch, large amounts of SPL, but large amounts of THD at low exstention.

Cool your jets here, Sid. You may not like the sound of the Velo HGS 10, but whatever you were hearing was not distortion.

The high gain servo circuit in the HGS series specifically is designed to keep distortion to less than 2% at all volumes and frequencies.

You can't hear 2% THD from a subwoofer - no one can. It becomes audible up around 10-15% and even then might not be objectionable. Hell, the Sunfire subs crank out almost 50% THD at low frequencies and high volumes, and some people seem to love sound. Remember, harmonic distortion is simply the woofer creating harmonics (multiples) of the source frequency.

So with a pure 25 Hz sine wave input, you would measure how much sound of its own the woofer creates at 50, 75, 100 Hz, etc. These are known as 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonics, etc. When you sum them all together, the total volume of all the harmonics created by the woofer is referred to as "total harmonic distortion".

Then you compare THD to the volume of the actual sine wave, and express it as a percentage. This is harder than it might seem, because the dB scale of a log base 10 function, and you cannot say that 60 dB is 50% of 120 dB, for example.

The SPL of the sine wave and of each harmonic needs to be converted to non log, and THEN you can mathmatically add them up and create a fractional percentage.

The only way to measure THD is to run a spectrum analysis on the woofer output and actually look at and measure the peaks of the sine wave and each harmonic.

That's actually why the HGS series doesn't play as loud as one might expect given it's size and power. The servo circuit ramps down the volume the instant it see any distortion being produced.

For example, a single SVS Ultra can actually play louder than the HGS-18. But the SVS has somewhat higher distortion as a trade-off. Keep things relative here, though - the guy who compared the HGS-18 and the Ultra says the Ultra driver is the closest thing to a servo design (without actually being one) from a low distortion standpoint, that he has ever heard.

Doc

**VR3** · 07-26-2003 10:53 AM

I see you didn't comment on the small woofer stand point ;)

I get what your talking about, bass frequencies are loud, and boomy, I can't detect thd. But my dang M&K has a flappy driver, so it distorts everytime it runs into trouble....

**faster100** · 07-26-2003 11:19 AM

people claim to hear THD, I just don't believe it

Unless like spec said, when it gets to higher levels ok... then its still up in the air.

**wlrandall** · 07-26-2003 11:36 AM

After calibrating last night I played around with the low freq sweeps on the Avia disk. My bigger problem is my stinking house. I was not amused with the walls, cabinets and everything else "singing" along with the sweeps...I hate the way houses are built these days. Maybe some folks are cursing their subs when they should be looking at the room it's in.

For those that are interested, two PSW350s will nail >110 dB; surprised me! That is until you get down to 27 Hz...

**VR3** · 07-26-2003 01:01 PM

My room dosnt rattle man........

it shifts.......

My house is 3 inches off center, and out of square. With a poorly braced attic. The walls have 1 nail for each stud, needs 2 so they dont turn and rattle.

The only way to rattle proof a house is to put glue on each end of each stud, and glue the walls to the floors, and glue everything basically. Other than that, it will always rattle. Build them great or build them poor. Without glue, they shall rattle.

The only way to get the studs to stop moving is to put OSB over them to hold them in place, then sheatrock is. That is also the only other way, but glue it still needed of course......

**Dr. Spec** · 07-26-2003 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I see you didn't comment on the small woofer stand point ;)

I get what your talking about, bass frequencies are loud, and boomy, I can't detect thd. But my dang M&K has a flappy driver, so it distorts everytime it runs into trouble....

I'm sure you can hear what is left of the blown driver flapping around on your M&K.

I'm just saying no Velo HGS subwoofer creates any audible distortion if it is functioning correctly.

And yes, we all know bigger drivers move more air, all things being equal.

But a smaller driver is not inherently better than a bigger driver in terms of speed or anything else. The only advantage is its ability to play at higher frequencies.

That's why the 6.5" driver Polk uses is typically crossed over to the tweeter at 2,100 Hz. Try that with an 18" driver.

Doc

**VR3** · 07-26-2003 01:21 PM

Doc, I'm not talking about the blown woofer.......

M&K woofers, if you ever hear one flap in the breeze all day. Its like a constant pop each time it hits anything harder than 100db......

:o The blown woofers just makes a constant BLEH sound....

I'll take an 18 inch subwoofer over a 6.5 inch sub anyday. Although I wouldnt cross it over 60hz....

**J9_ls1** · 08-07-2003 05:33 PM

Anyone think it will be out by the end of August?

**Zero** · 08-07-2003 06:17 PM

First off, Sid....

8 inch woofers? Not enough SPL? Im trying to be nice about this.

Let me just tell you, I have had a KLH 10' in my room. I have had the Polk psw202 in my room. I have had twin Infinity 10'' woofers in this room. Listened to a wide variety of subs, including an RBH1010 woofer *retailed for over a thousand* in a treated room.... and have listened to the KLH 15'.

My four 8'' woofers, as far as SPL is concerned, did more than hold their own. The only thing that could come close to competing was the KLH15 and the RBH1010..

I would NOT in any way shape or form, discount a driver just due to its size young man. Listen to some LSi-9's sometime. You'd probably be stunned at how much tight, accurate, and relatively deep *considering the driver size* that speaker can produce.

Size is not everything..

**VR3** · 08-07-2003 06:19 PM

Bobish........

I know a smaller woofer sounds better. Common sense.

No SMALL driver can produce the SPL unless they are coupled together in large quanities. IMO.....all the way.

**Zero** · 08-07-2003 06:20 PM

And now to address you members about the PSW808.

There is not much that I do know about the 808, and what I do know I will tell you all.

First off, the main reason why the sub has been pushed back is due to some international safety potential hazard concerning something being too close to either the driver, or the amplifier. The precise details have skipped my mind.

Polk likes their stuff safe and up to par with all the security measures. This is presenting a challenge and has subsequently pushed back the release date of the sub.

I was given no real scope on when it should be released. Just keep your eyes pealed.

And I thought you all would like to know, this sub is made specifically to match (visually and sonically) the LSi line..

Regards,

Sean

**VR3** · 08-07-2003 06:21 PM

I bet it will be an accurate mofo. But will it be able to do the SPL??

**Zero** · 08-07-2003 06:22 PM

No..Sid...

Smaller woofers does not equate to better sound. Not at all.

Ok ok lets start here: Repeat after me:

The sound quality of any woofer is not based on the driver size alone..

Got it? Good. Now lets try....

SPL is not strictly determined by the size of the woofer.

There, that wasnt so hard, was it?

**VR3** · 08-07-2003 06:24 PM

Sean,

Small woofers + Big Sound = Lots of XMAX

Small Woofer + Lots of XMAX = BIG SURROUND

SMALL + LOTS OF XMAX + BIG SURROUND = EMPLODED SURROUND......

Large Woofer + Good Quality = Good Quality Sound

**Zero** · 08-07-2003 06:38 PM

*sighs*

Is there no reasoning with teenagers? Do they automatically just know everything once that first hair arrives?

Ah, and to think just a few years ago I was right all the time.. ... :D

**brettw22** · 08-07-2003 06:54 PM

Some people keep that 'always right' part of them past their teenage years.......just ask Demi

**RuSsMaN** · 08-07-2003 07:03 PM

I have 6.5 inch drivers in my SRS's, and that 2ch rig can cruise right past 120db, and still have a little play in the gas pedal.

Then of course, those *wimpy* 6.5's also are what makes the 15" passive radiator move, taking me right down to the 20-22Hz range.

Cheers,
Russ

**brettw22** · 08-07-2003 07:08 PM

Are you just begging for a big EFF YOU Russ? ;)

**Zero** · 08-07-2003 07:08 PM

Brett,

What can I say - you know better than to say that.. :rollseyes:

Russ,

Ah, but thats impossible. You must get, whats it called
xmax, emplosion? No way can 6.5's deliver bass.

**brettw22** · 08-07-2003 07:24 PM

Sean, if i wasn't so sure that's what Russ was sayin, I wouldn't have brough it up.....;)

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