LSi9 crossover in LSiC

[ezc]

Replaced my LSiC crossover with a LSi9 crossover about a week ago. I have rewatched some movies & some movie clips. To me this made a noticible difference filling in the front sound stage. The LSi15 blend perfectly with my Hibred LSiC. The center dosnt have alot of low info sent to the speaker, & with the C Xover it seemed the low driver was dead most of the time. With the 9 Xover the low driver was more active & filled in the lows giving a fuller sound from the center. I dont feel the center got stronger but there is just more information being sent to the low driver so the sound is fuller. Watching movies at moderate vol level (under 75 db) with quiet dialoug scenes I didnt find myself reaching for the remote to turn the vol up. The C with the 9 Xover still uses one driver for the mids, one for the lows & the vifa for the highs, but there is more info being sent to the low driver. This suites my taste & I think now I can stop tweaking the center speaker. With the original LSiC I kept the center turned up about 2 db now with the new X over I have all speaker balanced equally. If your like me & have a LSiC & looking for a more equal sound this may work for you. Please note this will this affect your speakers warranty.

[organ]

Nice review ezc! When I finally get a full LSi set up(in a very long time:(), I will switch the x-over if I find the LSiC lacking.

Maurice

[pjdami]

Very interesting modification ezc. Essentially you have rebuilt a LSi 9 using the LSi C enclosure? The drivers look identical. Owning the LSi 15 and LSi 9 and LSi Center, I have been thrilled with the 15 and 9 but somewhat disappointed in the performance of the LSi Center for the very reasons you state.

I think Polk should address this issue with the LSi Center. Especially when one compares to the CSi 40 speaker in the RT line. The CSi 40 just seems to have more Theatrical slam and impact than the LSi Center does.

Paul

[pjdami]

p.s. ezc are those the stock wires inside the LSi? or did you upgrade them?

[ezc]

pjdami,
The wires inside are all original. I didnt do anything except replace the X over. The C & the 9 x over looks identical but if you look closely they are not, the 9 has more items on the board. I wanted to see if it would maks any difference. Lower vol movie watching seems to be better & the front seems to be much more even. I havnt had time to watch many movies & to really give it a test. As soon as I finish my car Ill be doing just that! What have found is that from the binding post there is a solid maby 16 guage wire to the x over board, one wire for each post. & speaker wire from the x over board to the speakers. Would changing the 4 solid wires to good speaker wire make a difference?

[pjdami]

ezc,

Nah... I wouldn't change the wire, especially for such a short length. The only reason I asked was because the wire looked beefier than the wire I saw in my RT35i's when I took them apart. Looks like Polk is using bigger gauge wire for the LSi (at least compared to the RT35i). Well that certainly is good news.

Keep us posted on your experiment. I may just order a LSi 9 crossover from Polk if you like the fuller sound and do this modification myself. Did you do any calibration comparisons before or after?

Others before us have also complained a little about the stock LSi Center. Then there are those whose are absolutely thrilled with it. I personally think it could be better. What a waste, one driver barely seems to do much at all.. in the stock trim...

PJ

[Airplay355]

very impressive. glasses up to you for thinking of that idea, and then doing it.

[ezc]

pjdami,

No I didnt do any adjustment or calibrations. I should have done some before & after measuremants but I didnt. The only change i made was change the center back to 0, I kept it at +2db with the C x over. I need to reset my system & try it again. I changed my speaker size to large for the front & rears while trying to hook up a rear sub via speaker level. The center is still small but I want to relisten with the front mains set to small. I thaught I had it set to small but I must have changed it when trying to set the rear to large. Oh well my system is back to how I had it & I just need some time to recalibrate & check again. even witht the mains set to large & the center set to small the c with the 9 x over still filled in & didnt sound week. In my system the C works well if I have the system about 75 db & up. At lower vol the LSiC stock just didnt have the output. With the 9 x over the low driver is noticably more active, but the speaker dosnt play louder just a fuller sound. If I watch movies at night after my son goes to sleep I try to keep the vol to about 40 on my reciver. With the c x over i needed to turn up the vol on softer dialoug scenes, even though I kept the center +2 db. With the 9 X over & center set to 0 db watching the same harry potter scene I didnt have to adj the vol, yes it was still on the softer side, but my center is now set to 0 db too. I have a couple of friends here that have LSiC & are interested too, I told one to come over & bring his Center so we could do a/b testing. If or when he dose Ill post it. Im curious to see what the difference is in a a/b test.

[ezc]

Follow up the the LSiC with a LSi9 Xover. I have had the C with the 9 x over for over a month & have had a chance to about 10 movies with the 9 Xover. The speaker level is balanced at 75db & the center is set to zero. Im much more happy with LSiC now! With the 9Xover the center is solid! There isnt a empty spot in the center with some movies. The front sound stage is even & smooth throghout the movies. Both main drivers is the C is much more active, with the C x over one driver (the low one) was hardly active. My friend wanted to try my C & he gave me his to use. After watching a movie with a stock C I realized how good my C was with the 9 x over. My friend called me a couple of days later & told me my center was great & he wanted a 9 X over too!
At lower volumes the center is much better & much fuller. I dont get to watch movies all the time at 75db, in the evenings I need to keep the vol lower. Even with the lower vol the center is still clean & even, & blends well with the 15's. Even at higher vols the center is matched well & dosnt overpower the 15's. I dont listen to multi chanel music much so I couldnt say if it made it better or worse listening to multi chanel music.

[eclypse]

ezc, do you think that the new Csi5 center will have the same problem as your center since it basically is setup to work the same?

heres a little snibit i read about the new Csi5 center channel speaker..

Some center channel speakers, due to their horizontal design, have a difficult time evenly distributing the sound throughout the listening area. To combat this problem, the CSi5 features a "cascade tapered array," meaning one woofer plays only the bass frequencies, while the other handles both bass and midrange. This setup results in broad, even sound dispersion, and a better overall surround sound experience.

I was a little worried about this when i ordered one a day ago.. It will be here later on today.. I'll be replacing the CSi40.. and like you said i dont think the CSi40 does this and plays full out with both drivers...

I'm moving from the old Rti line and ordered a whole set of the new Rti line.. so i still have to return the old set since the 30 days aint up yet and i'm holding on to them till i make sure i like the new line before i return them..

If the new center might give me problems like you mentioned then it might be smart for me to just use the CSi40 insted with the Rti12's and Fxi5's.

[ezc]

eclypse,

My LSiC is still a tapered aray type. The 9 X over just sends more low info to the low driver. It dosnt let both drivers play full out. Still one plays the mids, the other plays the lows & the tweet the highs. My feeling was just my center seemed hollow somtimes like somthing was missing. It dosnt play louder or full out harder just has more info ( fuller sound). I would think the CSi5 should sound great from what I have been reading. I got the idea for the 9 X over after seeing custom installers install all 9's all the way around & I got to listen to the system afterit was done. I was amazed as to how full the front sound stage was with three 9's in the front. The 9's & the C's use all the same drivers, but in a different cabinet & different crossover. Instead of buying a 9 to try I got a 9 x over & stuck it into the C, the only difference now is the cabinet. Im pleased with my C & how it sounds. I may sound nuts but the somtimes hollow sounding (empty) center bothered me!

[eclypse]

Ok thanks for the info ezc.. Oh btw.. Nice freakin pic there.. Must be a great camera?

[newsman]

How difficult is it to change x-overs? Anyone tried ordering LSi9 x-over from Polk?

[phuz]

I had thought about doing this a while back. Now I know i'm gonna do it. Thanks for the input.

[Whadyasay]

Can you purchase an LSi9 Xover separately?

[ezc]

let us know what your feedback is with the 9xover in the lsic! I had mine swirched for about a year & have been very happy with mine so far!!!

[mantis]

I don't get it??? I never had these problems with my LsiC. I never has the desire to change anything.

I don't own the Lsi series anymore but after reading this thead, it makes me wonder what I was missing??

I calibrated my system to 75db as the B&K was reference at 0 across the fronts and the rears needed a +1 on the right and +2 on the left. This isn't important but that was the end result after calibration. I was actually amazed at the front 3 all being the same level after calibration.

I played my system at moderate volume levels and found the LsiC to match and blend with the Lsi15's perfectly. I never sat and listened to just the center drivers. I did however notice the output thing when cleaning one day and it was playing.

Very Intresting as I would try the different crossover.

It reminds me of the days when I owned the rt1000p's and changed the tweeter and crossover to the rt1000i's. That made a noticeable difference in overall brightness of those speakers. It calmed them down a bit. They where very bright before the upgrade.

Dan

[Toxis]

where do you get a hold of a single 9 x-over?

[VR3]

POLK AUDIO

They sell replacement crossovers just like they do woofers and tweeters and enclosure and grills and w/e else you come across...

[ezc]

I got mine from a lsi9 which a customer damaged & purchased another one.

[Mazeroth]

Not to start any arguments here but I've been HEAVY into building DiY speakers for the last year and have learned a ton about how a speaker works and, well, you name it. I'm sure Polk's engineers know what they're doing and tweeked the hell out of the LSiC. I used to own a full LSi lineup and I absolutely loved the LSiC. The only reason I sold it was to obtain money to build my own speakers. You have to trust me on this. The LSiC does exactly what it's supposed to do. That crossover inside of it compensates for a horizontal enclosure, while the LSi9 does not. You don't need to buy a whole different crossover; all you need to do is change one, maybe two parts, and you'll have a new sounding speaker, even though I wouldn't personally do it. I know, you're not me and have different tastes and that's totally cool.

When manufacturers make GOOD speakers, like the LSi, they put a component in the crossover called a BSC circuit, for Baffle Step Compensation. This compensates for the lower sound (generally from 0hz - 1khz) that travels behind the speaker, and boosts that frequency up to where it should be. The wider the baffle, the less BSC they add. You can adjust how much you want by changing out the resistor to one with a different value.

I just noticed what time it is and I'm WAY late getting to bed. Have to be somewhere in 6.5 hours! If you want more info, do a Google search for baffle step compensation and all that good stuff.

[ezc]

Thanks for the info! I do want to read up & learn more!