Calling all Klipsch Owners

[DaveHo]

I didn't want to hi-jack the Reference V thread...

Another Klipsch owner here as well. I have a pair of Forte II's I picked up about a year ago. I bought them based on my recollection from a demo of the original Forte's back in the 80's. At the time, I thought those sounded glorious, but they were a bit over my budget. Ended up buying a pair of Polk 10B's, which obviously were fantastic as well.

Anyway, could those of you with Forte's or Forte II's share your system information? Despite trying different amps & sources with these I'm finding them to be practically unlistenable. I've had & currently have much more neutral sounding speakers in my main rig & the Forte II's are just way too harsh & in your face. AFAIK, they are completely original. Maybe it's time for the Bob Crites treatment? I have a tube buffer coming. I"m hopeful this will help some.

-Dave

[steveinaz]

Dave
Sometimes our musical memory isn't as accurate as we think. I thought for years that my 70's gear sounded really good---that is until I found mint examples of all of it, bought it, and hooked it up. In my case a Pioneer SX-780 and HPM-40 speakers. They don't sound nearly as good as I remember....

[nguyendot]

Info in my sig.
I'm going to rip out the crossovers and replace them with upgraded units soon.
Then a set of tubes are coming.

[mhardy6647]

No Fortes here but I lived with a pair of Cornwalls for a decade.



Low powered, single-ended vaccum tube amps will give you the best results, if'n you ask me. I used a pair of Bottlehead Paramour (SE 2A3) monoblocks, 3.5 watts per, for most of the time I had mine.

That said, the vintage Fisher vacuum tube receivers (400, 500, and 800 series), with push-pull 7868 or 7591A outputs, also nicely smooth off vintage Klipsch speakers' rough edges. Best that I ever heard my own Cornies sound was being powered by a Marantz 8B that I had rehabilitated for someone. Magnificent amplifier, maybe the best sounding EL34 PP amp ever... pricey though.



(Fisher 500C in the photo, sitting atop one of the Cornies)



HTH,as they say!

[nguyendot]

I resigned my Forte IIs to home theater duty since their 2 channel wasn't that great in their current form.

[mhardy6647]

also worth mentioning that Klipsch has a set of forums, and there's also a Klipsch forum at www.audiokarma.org

the little tube amps make nice nightlights, too...

[cubdog]

I own Cornwalls and KG4s. Fortes have never been my favorite although they are reallty popular. Actually I agree with your assessment of them.

cubdog

[zingo]

What electronics are you currently using with your Forte IIs Dave?

I have the original Fortes, and they have received many upgrades: new crossovers consisting of all Jantzen Audio components, Bob Crites Titanium tweeters, Dynamat woofer baskets and horns, Mortite driver caulking, and a few cosmetic changes.

They are the best speakers I've ever owned, and are very quick, neutral, and musical. However like you were saying, they are in-your-face, which coupled with their ridiculous amount of detail, is why I like them. Coming off your 10Bs, they will be a very different sounding speaker, and will lack the warmth and overly smooth sound of the Polks.

Associated equipment: DH Labs Q-10 Signature speaker cable, Jantzen Upgraded Shuguang 300B Treasure integrated amp, Clarity Cap Upgraded Kingrex T20U+PSU integrated amp, DH Labs Pro Studio IC, Transparent Audio MusicLink Plus IC, Audio-gd NFB-7 DAC, DH Labs D-75 digital coax, Musiland 01USD USB transport, Virtue Audio Nirvana USB cable, PC with lossless music.

[organ]

If you got them used, you may want to check and make sure all the internal wiring are in proper phase. When I got a used Cornwall, it sounded like crap because somebody did a re-wire job inside and had one woofer connection reversed.

Also, it could be a placement or room acoustic issue. Can you describe your set up?

Like Mrh, I've never owned Forte's but did own Cornwalls. I'll have to agree with what he said. Klipsch speakers sound best, imo, with single ended tube amps.
Back in the day, Paul Klipsch, in an interview was asked about amplifiers and he said something like (can't remember exact words but number is correct) "all you need is a good 5 watt amp".
But I also enjoy their speakers with push-pull tube amps and low powered SS gainclones.
IME, all SS amp are very forward and in your face with Klipsch.

To those of you thinking about getting Bob Crites stuff, I thought I'd share my experience. I restored my Cornwall using his parts. The 15" woofers are amazing and sound identical to Klipsch's version. For the x-over network I got Sonicaps from Bob. I also purchased a pair of his tweeters (CT-125).
I was happy with everything except the replacement tweeters. It was a big let down, IMO. I feel the original K-77 is so much better and an overall better match to the mid horn. The thing that bothered me the most was that even though Bob market his tweeters as a replacement for the K-77, it really isn't. It plays much lower than the K-77. I believe it is 3db less sensitive or something. I was missing a lot of detail in direct comparison to the K-77. The CT-125 made the speakers sound dull and less dynamic. This is just my opinion. If you check the Klipsch forum, there are those who like the tweets and those who don't.

[indyhawg]

I own Forte II's and love them. Last month I had Bob Crites rebuild my crossovers and I upgraded to titanium tweeter diaphragms. This improved the sound. I am currently using a NAD 2600 amp and a NAD 1300 preamp. I am looking to get into tubes soon.

[TNRabbit]

I used to have a complete RF-83 surround system, but sold everything except the RT-12d sub due to financial issues. GREAT H/T system.

[DaveHo]

More info about my set-up.

I'm currently driving them with an Harman Kardon 3380 & using an Adcom GCD-700 as a source. Interconnects are some low buck AR's I had laying around & speaker wires are some CL3 rated 12/2 in wall wire. I've also tried using an Adcom GCA-510 integrated to drive them.

As far placement goes, well, that's potentially the main problem. I don't have space for a dedicated 2 channel system at the moment, so when I've pulled them out of the closet for a listen I've been making space for them in my family room. Right now I've got them about 7 ft apart 1 ft from the back wall. They are nowhere near a corner. I've got them toed in such that they cross a foot or two in front of the listening position which is about 10 ft away. I've experimented with toe in, pointed straight ahead or toed directly at me practically made my ears bleed.

In addition to being harsh, they seem very bass shy. It's there but doesn't have near the weight I feel it should. But, it's been a while since I had a dedicated 2 channel system, so that may be an affect of being used to having a sub.

I really want to like these speakers, as I have such fond memories & spent a good bit of time trying to find a pair within driving distance. Although I'm beginning to think steveinaz is right.

-Dave

[zingo]

For most people, I believe you have to go all in (commit) to horns to get the best performance out of them. They are a very different beast than most speakers, and interact with electronics and sound different than most speakers. That being said, I find horns are extremely rewarding and sound fantastic when set up correctly with the right components.

I find that bass on my speakers to be fast, tight, and reasonable low. However, it is not the same as having a big, high powered subwoofer in your system; it sounds more musical and effortless to me.

My Fortes are about 10ft apart, and I sit about 10ft from them with no toe-in. They are about 6" from the wall, and 2ft from each side wall.

As of right now, I prefer powering them with tubes, but have been experimenting with SS amps as well with good results. My upgraded Tripath based amp is the best sounding SS amp on the speakers so far with a lot of the sound quality of my 300B, at a fraction of the price. My next stop will be an ICEpower based amp to see how that pairs with the horns. You also can never go wrong with a class A amp with horns, but I would avoid class A/B, B, and C amps as I have never found it a good pairing.

Checking your wiring is also a great idea as noted above, but as I'm sure you know, horns sound different and aren't everyone's cup of tea.

[mhardy6647]

The T-class amps should be pretty good (no ears-on experience, though). Further, and FWIW, legend has it that the vintage hk 430 "twin power" receiver was a good soiled state match for the heritage Klipsches (Heresy, Cornwall, LaScala, Belle Klipsch, Klipschorn).


Gordon Miller Music (in Baltimore) took a slightly different approach to pairing the hk430 :-)

[DaveHo]

You know, I've seen this add before, but never really bothered to read it closely. They sure goofed on the speaker description. 3-way? 8" passive? I'll give them a pass calling the mw a 6". At least that was close.

[mhardy6647]

Polk didn't describe 'em that way; Gordon Miller did.
Polk called them "sub-bass cones" in those days, if memory serves.

[organ]

Thanks for sharing your set up info. Don't be shy about corner loading Klipsch speakers, espcially the Heritage line. Play around a little. The heritage models do gain some advantage with corner loading, especially with the larger models like LS and KH. When they're right up in the corner, the front and side walls of your room become an extension of the mid horns and with KH, the bass as well. This is the idea behind the Klipschorn. Give it a shot. At least you know your bass will improve by corner loading them.
Better to troubleshoot first before giving up on them, imo.

Zingo also brought up some good points. Horns are very different and require careful equipment matching.

But, it could also be that horns are not your cup of tea like Steve mentioned.

Mrh,
Wow. That's a nice old ad. That receiver was big power back then. Thanks for posting it.

[mhardy6647]

Thanks for sharing your set up info. Don't be shy about corner loading Klipsch speakers, espcially the Heritage line. Play around a little. The heritage models do gain some advantage with corner loading, especially with the larger models like LS and KH. When they're right up in the corner, the front and side walls of your room become an extension of the mid horns and with KH, the bass as well. This is the idea behind the Klipschorn. Give it a shot. At least you know your bass will improve by corner loading them.
Better to troubleshoot first before giving up on them, imo.

Zingo also brought up some good points. Horns are very different and require careful equipment matching.

But, it could also be that horns are not your cup of tea like Steve mentioned.

Mrh,
Wow. That's a nice old ad. That receiver was big power back then. Thanks for posting it.

Yup, the 1970s and later proscription against putting speakers in corners was a trifle misguided... indeed, of course, the Cornwall was meant to be placed either in a CORner or along a WALL. Amusingly, the latter was to enable a Cornwall to be used as a center channel speaker with a pair of Klipschorns to fill in the "hole in the middle" in early stereo applications!

As to "the horn sound" - please don't jump to any conclusions based on Klipsch's implementation of horns. First of all, there were better-balanced horns in the old days (ahem... Altec... ahem) and, second, there actually have been some advancements in the design and implementation of horns and "waveguides" in the ensuing 60 years.

As a non-trivial example:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...ight=econowave

[organ]

Oh no. Wasn't jumping into any conclusion based on Klipsch's implementation. By different, I was talking about his Fortes using the exponential horns which, to a lot of people is too forward and agressive. I personally like them but prefer tractrix designs. I apologize if it looked like I labeled all horns as the same. Interesting discussion on your link over at AK. Thanks.
Funny you brought up the "center speaker" thing. I don't think I've ever seen that discussed here. I believe the Belle was designed for the same thing too.

[mhardy6647]

I think that the Belle was just a housebroken (cosmetically) version of the LaScala.

It's really weird to be discussing Klipsch speakers at the Polk forums! ;-)

[xsmi]

I have a set of KG4's I bought brand new in 1991! I may own many other speakers but these have a special place in my heart and I hope I never have to part with them.

[organ]

I think that the Belle was just a housebroken (cosmetically) version of the LaScala.

It's really weird to be discussing Klipsch speakers at the Polk forums! ;-)

Yeah, that's how I see it too. But I do remember reading something about it where it was meant to be a center speaker. It's been a long time, maybe it was a different model. The mid horn on the Belle can't match the one on the LS. So I guess the Belle is for men with strict wifes while the others get La Scala.

[DaveHo]

I played around a little more with equipment & positioning this weekend. I rearranged some furniture in the bedroom & hooked them up to the bedroom system, a '91ish Sony CDP-69ES player & an Audosource Amp Two. Positioned them about 6" off the rear wall & got the one resonably close to the corner. Bass was better & some of the harshness was gone. I'm not sure if I would consider them for everyday use yet, but it was the best I've heard them sound. If I tear into my main HT rig I've got another couple amp choices to try. I'll see where that takes me.

Thanks for the suggestions.

-Dave

[BottomFeeder]

Had a pair of the original Fortes & found what others have found - for my ears, tubes play best with them. & I found the bass to be awesome. Rattled the floors & once vibrated some things off of a nearby wall!

But yeah, the detail is amazing, yet not for everyone.

[zingo]

I'm guessing one of the sound quality issues with your Fortes is the Audiosource amp. They are fine budget amps with dome tweeters, but in my experience do not works with horns. Can you try them with a different amp from a friend or something? It might help you explore the sound of the speaker.

[iskandam]

My first Klipsch speaker was the Forte II. They sound fantastic with the Pioneer Elite SC-05. The only problem I had with it was some harshness in the midrange. I also had Chorus II which sounded similar but with a bigger sound and more bass.

Next was the Forte I fully pimped out with Crites titanium tweeters, upgraded mid, and new crossovers. The sound is much more neutral but detailed than stock. At this point I decided to try some tubes with them. I picked up a Dared DV-6C hybrid tube amp and upgraded the tubes with TJ Full Music. Imaging, clarity, and tonal accuracy were substantially improved.

I now have a pair of KLF-10s that I also modded with Crites' titanium diaphragm and new crossovers. Now up for sale (shameless plug : )

[leftwinger57]

When I entered the H/t arena I knew I wasn't going to be suckered into a HTIB system so I went for seperates. Yamaha RX-V665 W/ a set Kplisch 500 w/a8inpwrd sub. The speakers as small as they are can out handle the Yamaha as was told by the techs at Klipsch. My real wish was when I went back to 2 ch I saw no Fortes 1s or 2s or Cornwalls, and if I did they were way to much. So now I have an Adcom gfa555> onkyo p-301 pre> Denon1940ci cdp and InfinitySM112S FROM c/l for $40 refoamed and they play great. My only wish is for a pair of walnut FortesII...LW

[DaveHo]

For the curious, I've been able to get these sounding pretty good. The tube buffer helped emmensely when inserted into the budget system consisting of the HK 3380 & Adcom GCD-700. I also swapped the Forte's into my HT rig where they were driven by an Aragon 8008x3. With this amp they sounded very good, even without the tube buffer.

[leftwinger57]

Hi guys , Not being that audiophiled but went w/ the Klipsch 500 h/t SET. They're a good match for my Yamaha 665. The question is about this dude BOB CRITE and his magic xovers. Over on the Klipsch site people are raving about his work and how it changes the speakers he works on. Now I spoke to a Klipsch tech and said yes if the caps are going then replace them but these speakers were engineered w/ certain specs to begin for a reason. I pesonally still want some FortesII instead of my Infinity SM112s
LW.....

[nguyendot]

They're engineered at a price/performance ratio, not for the best performance period.
If you've ever seen the crossovers in the Forte II's, they're wimpy and just glued to the back of the connection cup.
Trust me, upgraded crossovers are a VERY good upgrade if engineered correctly. Bob Crites didn't go for price/performance, he went with performance and the cost went up with it.
Look a the people who modify their LSI's with new crossovers, not cheap but they sound better for sure.