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  1. #1
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    Default Quick Led Zep Question

    I am looking to purchase Physical Graffitti (sp?) because I've never owned a copy on cd. What is the best cd version out there ? Bear in mind I am not really interested in purchasing a box set. Cheers.

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    I would try and find a SHM-CD copy...
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    Check out this old Hoffman thread.

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...d.php?t=124099
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    I will have to find a copy of that..
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    I have a copy of the version in the Steve Hoffman link and it's far better than the current remaster which I also bought and compared. I bought the original copy back in the late 80's.

    I have learned that even as I buy more recent copies of cd's that are supposedly better, I never get rid of the originals because some of the older cd's are still better than the remasters.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I have learned that even as I buy more recent copies of cd's that are supposedly better, I never get rid of the originals because some of the older cd's are still better than the remasters.

    H9
    Hence, my inquiry. I can remember reading Stereo Review's write up on the original CD release in the 80's and the reviewer lamenting the omission of the "studio chatter" from the CD. So the version I am looking for was mastered by Barry Diament, double thick CD case with white stripes and matrix number SS-200-2-1-V2E-32. Does this sound about right ?

    Is it just me or does anyone else think its a good thing that we debate the merits of a "cough" or "no cough" on a recording ? There must be a clinical diagnosis for such a thing. Cheers.

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    Did the musicians turn to the left for their coughs ? I'd like to have all of the material that was included on the original release, plus subsequent re-releases that might contain additional songs/coughs/studio chatter. I don't care for revisionist historians cutting things out of a recording, not even where the Grateful Dead are the artists ! (Hated Donna Jean Godchaux !)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdb View Post
    Did the musicians turn to the left for their coughs ? I'd like to have all of the material that was included on the original release, plus subsequent re-releases that might contain additional songs/coughs/studio chatter. I don't care for revisionist historians cutting things out of a recording, not even where the Grateful Dead are the artists ! (Hated Donna Jean Godchaux !)

    you can buy dead stuff with her 'voice' cut out? capital!

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    I WISH !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nap View Post
    Hence, my inquiry. I can remember reading Stereo Review's write up on the original CD release in the 80's and the reviewer lamenting the omission of the "studio chatter" from the CD. So the version I am looking for was mastered by Barry Diament, double thick CD case with white stripes and matrix number SS-200-2-1-V2E-32. Does this sound about right ?

    Is it just me or does anyone else think its a good thing that we debate the merits of a "cough" or "no cough" on a recording ? There must be a clinical diagnosis for such a thing. Cheers.
    I seem to vaguely remember that Stereo Review write-up as well. Now, with the advent of the crappy remastering trend I'm glad we can discuss these things. In the beginning a lot of people were critical of the original releases, myself included, because they didn't always source the original master and they were noisy.

    I listen now and they certainly have that analog sound compared to any of the remastered material.

    In looking at my LZ collection I, II, III, Physical Graf and I think ITOD were all mastered by Barry Diament. Strangely IV, HOTH are on JVC of Japan. I forgot to look at Presence. Not sure if Barry Diament did all the originals but perhaps I just didn't buy them at the right time, and it sounds like a few pressing plants were involved.

    LZ is my all time favorite band so I'm quite sure I bought most of my cd's very early on all in the 80's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I have learned that even as I buy more recent copies of cd's that are supposedly better, I never get rid of the originals because some of the older cd's are still better than the remasters.

    H9
    Same here. It's a crap shoot really and often the newer release falls short. Very frustrating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I seem to vaguely remember that Stereo Review write-up as well. Now, with the advent of the crappy remastering trend I'm glad we can discuss these things. In the beginning a lot of people were critical of the original releases, myself included, because they didn't always source the original master and they were noisy.

    I listen now and they certainly have that analog sound compared to any of the remastered material.

    In looking at my LZ collection I, II, III, Physical Graf and I think ITOD were all mastered by Barry Diament. Strangely IV, HOTH are on JVC of Japan. I forgot to look at Presence. Not sure if Barry Diament did all the originals but perhaps I just didn't buy them at the right time, and it sounds like a few pressing plants were involved.

    LZ is my all time favorite band so I'm quite sure I bought most of my cd's very early on all in the 80's.

    H9
    IMO, the best mastering of the untitled fourth album are the West German first pressing(s). I have both the Green and orangeish colored "target" CD and the red and silver colored Japan pressed "target" CD. If you don't have either one of these, the beginning of "Battle of Evermore" is cut off, although I have not heard the remasters, so it may not apply in that case. Typically, the earlier the pressing, the better it is (from what I have listened to). Of course in the case of Physical, the "cough" part is cut off, but the pressing still sounds great. I have the first pressing Japanese import of Physical where it is cut off. I also have a myriad of US and made in Japan US Physicals that have and don't have the "cough" cut off.

    Greg

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    I have the Japanese red and silver version of IV.........not sure what you mean by "target". This thread made me physically look at all my LZ cd's last night, but the description "target" escapes me.

    Going strictly on memory here but I think IV was one that was sourced from a 2nd generation master. The story goes that they had difficulty locating the original master and wanted to get it pressed asap, so they mastered it from a copy of the master. It seems to have a little more noise (tape hiss) than some of the others.

    Of course I'm talking about the original release of IV.

    Also an interesting fact, especially if you know how protective Jimmy Page is about the LZ catalog. He was never involved with the original mastering and pressing to cd. It was news to him when copies started showing up on music stands. It was just an internal thing at Atlantic and Jimmy Page nor anyone else in the band had any involvement in the mastering for cd. I remember reading he was quite disappointed when he found out some of the material was sourced from copies of masters rather than directly from the masters. Hence the reworking of the catalog, several times now.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 03-15-2011 at 10:11 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Brock, when people refer to the "target" they are referring to the "painted design" on the CD. My brother, friendes and I always just called them the "painted" CDs. I have included a link to the thread about the 90125 "target CD" and Audio Fidelity CD as a reference. Also, you are correct, the untitled fourth album does have more tape hiss on it, but the first pressings (example your Japanese pressed red and silver "target" CD has the whole beginning of "Battle of Evermore" on it. On the later non remastered (and maybe remastered, I don't know) pressings the beginning is cut off by about 6 to 7 seconds.

    Greg

    Link to target CD picture: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...audio+fidelity
    Last edited by headrott; 03-15-2011 at 10:25 AM.

  15. #15

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    Greg, your link has a double "http" might want to edit that before time runs out. Thanks for the link

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 03-15-2011 at 10:22 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Yeah, I fixed it. Sorry about the mess up.

    Greg

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    http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-ZEPPELIN-PHY...item4cf5b2709e

    Sorry to jump in on this thread but, I saw this on ebay and thought I would share the link and ask a question. Anyone know if this is a cough or no cough version?

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    I would *assume* since this is a current Japanese remaster (rather the most current remaster) that it would include it. But, I can't say for certain. I believe the no cough versions were early pressings of the original cd's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by erniejade View Post
    http://cgi.ebay.com/LED-ZEPPELIN-PHY...item4cf5b2709e

    Sorry to jump in on this thread but, I saw this on ebay and thought I would share the link and ask a question. Anyone know if this is a cough or no cough version?
    I'm not sure erniejade, but $46??

    Do you or nap have a TT? I highly recomend hunting down the original Swan Song pressing of the Lp, best sound by a wide margin! And they are out there, you might luck out at your local used record store for about $3 to $6 bucks
    Huh? Wot?? Dig it :tongue:

    Where can I get me some??

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    the SHIM or SHM versions of anything is 45 and up. Not just led zep stuff.

    As far as LP yep i have them all on LP LOL. Sounds good with the denon dl160 for sure!!

    I also have the early cd pressing of the box set ( the 4 cd one not the rhino remaster)

    I do not own a SHM cd yet so i was debating between the led zep or Steely Dan Aja for my first one. I wanted to get one that I had a LP of so I can compair it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuwee View Post
    I'm not sure erniejade, but $46??

    Do you or nap have a TT? I highly recomend hunting down the original Swan Song pressing of the Lp, best sound by a wide margin! And they are out there, you might luck out at your local used record store for about $3 to $6 bucks
    I have a confession to make. I had, repeat had, PG on vinyl. If you listen really closely that's Marlon Brando uttering "The Horror". I parted with most all of my vinyl to make room when my son was born. I am afraid PG was one of the casualties. Oh well, what else can I say ? There is a very good used vinyl place near here maybe I'll have to go sometime.

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    Just did a fly by at Amazon. They have two versions. The 1990 version ASIN #B000002JSN and the 1994 version ASIN #B00000DOYH. I am assuming I want the 1990 offering. It seems that this is the Barry Diament master that may or may not have the "cough"depending on the vintage. From reading the linked thread people are either love it or hate it on the Marino master.

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    Not sure what you mean by ASIN #

    I'm on Amazon right now and it seems you have the 2 versions reversed in your thread. I am looking at my copy of the Barry Diamant release and no where on the spine, liner notes or cd do I see the #'s you refer to. My cd was released before 1990 so I have no idea which version you would be buying. Are you interested in the B. Diamant release or the coughing release or both?

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 03-15-2011 at 09:51 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuwee View Post
    Do you or nap have a TT? I highly recomend hunting down the original Swan Song pressing of the Lp, best sound by a wide margin!
    I have that version but I've heard a Classic Records re-master that was even better. Actually most of the Classic re-masters of Zep I prefer to the originals with maybe the exception of Houses of the Holy mastered by Robert Ludwig. I've yet to hear a cd version of PG that I really liked but I haven't heard any Japanese versions.

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    I'll take the SHM-CD issue over Barry Diament's, all day, every day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Not sure what you mean by ASIN #

    I'm on Amazon right now and it seems you have the 2 versions reversed in your thread. I am looking at my copy of the Barry Diamant release and no where on the spine, liner notes or cd do I see the #'s you refer to. My cd was released before 1990 so I have no idea which version you would be buying. Are you interested in the B. Diamant release or the coughing release or both?

    H9
    H,
    I thought I wrote down the ASIN #'s correctly. I am not sure exactly what these numbers are or mean. It was just what Amazon had posted in the body of their item description under product detail near label (Atlantic / Wea). After reading through the posted link a few times I definitley want the Barry Diament "cough" version. My take is that Diament did the master which initially did not include the cough. It was added back on later versions. The real way to tell was the matrix number on CD 1 but you need to have the item to even view this. What is the matrix number on yours ?

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    3 200-2.1 SRC-01 is the matrix on inner part of the cd. Warner/WEA SS 200-1-2 on the spine.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Are the SHM versions being complimented here the same ones that are in the import version of the box set:

    http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Col...0288236&sr=8-7

    If folks think it is that much of a difference, I may pull the plug on the whole set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nspindel View Post
    Are the SHM versions being complimented here the same ones that are in the import version of the box set:

    http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Col...0288236&sr=8-7

    If folks think it is that much of a difference, I may pull the plug on the whole set.
    Neil see this thread.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112281

    I believe the set you linked to at Amazon is one in the same as the current Rhino sale set.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    I see they could be different.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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