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Thread: Holy Grail

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Never heard of Telefunken 6201's....they made a rare 6211 and a rare 5965. I have other 5965's and the TFK rules.

    H9
    I mispoke and meant to write Valvo 6201's (another 12AT7 variant) which are said to be great also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    I mispoke and meant to write Valvo 6201's (another 12AT7 variant) which are said to be great also.
    Greg, I have a pair of Sylvania, Gold Brand 6201 that I swear by as one of the best I've rolled. I lucked out on this pair awhile back and scored 'em both for 13.00 plus shipping. I have a few Sylvania 12AT7 variants and all are great tubes that won't break the bank. The GB 6201 is exceptional tho.

    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/review/p...2/category/37/
    Last edited by Keiko; 04-09-2011 at 01:34 AM.

  3. #63

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    H9, I think you are the one to ask about adding a pre- amp & amp. If you have a 7.2 Ht
    with an AVR 100w per channel how does fit into the system and what does in do?

    Does the AVR need per- amps out?

    Thanks
    Clarajack

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    Received my Dared SL2000A yesterday. This is used and 2009 vintage in mint condition. It is the newer version with two channels of input and output RCA connections.

    This newer versions come with a generic "Farad" brand coupling capacitor vs. Auricap. It appears to be .22uf and 400v. There is not a lot of room in this case. The PCB mounting holes are 1" spread and there is about 0.875" clearance from PCB to cover plate.

    Thinking about replacing these generic caps with the Rel Cap TFTs. Here http://www.partsconnexion.com/PDF/relcap.pdf. I believe these should fit in and shouldn't be that hard to install. Any opinions on these caps for preamp input coupling?

    This unit also came with a pair of Mullard ECC81 Black Sable tubes. I found these at Tube Depot and they appear to be a specialty Cryo product.

    My analog source is out being modded, so I can't try this out yet. This will give me some time to pick up two or three of the recommended tube choices to roll.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Greg, I have a pair of Sylvania, Gold Brand 6201 that I swear by as one of the best I've rolled. I lucked out on this pair awhile back and scored 'em both for 13.00 plus shipping. I have a few Sylvania 12AT7 variants and all are great tubes that won't break the bank. The GB 6201 is exceptional tho.

    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/review/p...2/category/37/
    Thanks Mike. That's a coincidence that I have Sylvania Gold Brand 5965's (that I think are very good) in the V4 and V8 spots in my pre that are the tubes I'm looking to roll.

    I have 2 Mullard CV4024/M8162's that I want to try there (a tube I'm already familiar with) and then these Westinghouse Gold Pin 5965's that I bought for a song.

    I've never tried Slvania Gold Brand 6201's, but bet they are very close to the 5965's I have and I'll grab some if I ever see a deal.

    The 5965's are 47 mu gain and that's what Conrad Johnson designed for, but I don't think going up to 60 mu will hurt anything, although on paper it is a 28% increase in gain.

    There are sooooo many good 12AT7 variants to roll out there it can drive you crazy
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    There are sooooo many good 12AT7 variants to roll out there it can drive you crazy
    Try some of the Sylvanias. They're inexpensive and the ones I've tried have all played well. I got a quad of 12AT7WA 3 mica black plates that I'm very fond of too. Many of the U.S. tubes can compete easily with their European counterparts. Right now I have some Valvo ECC801S in my pre. Scored these from Brock awhile back and the GB 6201s are almost as good, IMO.

  7. #67

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    This guy has listed these for several weeks without ever getting his starting bid of 6 X $50, (or 6 X $70 "Buy it Now") . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/Telefunken-5965-...-/120709890588

    Since it's been so long I wonder if he would consider maybe $40 per tube.

    Is anyone else here interested in a pair (so we could split his 6 3-ways) and maybe end up around $85 per pair delivered?

    ########################

    On another note, I just rolled the NOS Westinghouse 5965 Gold Pin tubes (mentioned and pictured above in post #58) into V4 and V8 on my CJ pre.

    They are exceptionally good even with just a few hours on them, I think even better than then the NOS Sylvania Gold Brand (but not gold pin) 5965's I took out.

    Next up are a pair of NOS Mullard (Mitchum, Shield Logo) CV4024/M8162's and a pair of NOS RCA 5965 Copper S-Rod Triple Mica's.

    I probably should sell something before considering those Telefunken's. but I get attached to these darn things
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  8. #68

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    ^^^ Yeah, I saw that Telefunken auction too, but I'm not interested in 6 of them at that price. Splitting the auction 3 ways sound good to me, but it would be nice if we could get him down to $40 a tube (or less! ), as you suggested...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outfitter03 View Post
    Received my Dared SL2000A yesterday. This is used and 2009 vintage in mint condition. It is the newer version with two channels of input and output RCA connections.

    This newer versions come with a generic "Farad" brand coupling capacitor vs. Auricap. It appears to be .22uf and 400v. There is not a lot of room in this case. The PCB mounting holes are 1" spread and there is about 0.875" clearance from PCB to cover plate.

    Thinking about replacing these generic caps with the Rel Cap TFTs. Here http://www.partsconnexion.com/PDF/relcap.pdf. I believe these should fit in and shouldn't be that hard to install. Any opinions on these caps for preamp input coupling?

    This unit also came with a pair of Mullard ECC81 Black Sable tubes. I found these at Tube Depot and they appear to be a specialty Cryo product.

    My analog source is out being modded, so I can't try this out yet. This will give me some time to pick up two or three of the recommended tube choices to roll.
    Why not Auricaps? I love Auricaps for coupling caps. Those are not true Mullards, they are Russian repro's IIRC. Get some better OS tubes. Certainly take your time, but there is a whole other world of tubes better than (Russian) Mullard reproduction's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    This guy has listed these for several weeks without ever getting his starting bid of 6 X $50, (or 6 X $70 "Buy it Now") . . . http://cgi.ebay.com/Telefunken-5965-...-/120709890588

    Since it's been so long I wonder if he would consider maybe $40 per tube.

    Is anyone else here interested in a pair (so we could split his 6 3-ways) and maybe end up around $85 per pair delivered?

    ########################

    On another note, I just rolled the NOS Westinghouse 5965 Gold Pin tubes (mentioned and pictured above in post #58) into V4 and V8 on my CJ pre.

    They are exceptionally good even with just a few hours on them, I think even better than then the NOS Sylvania Gold Brand (but not gold pin) 5965's I took out.

    Next up are a pair of NOS Mullard (Mitchum, Shield Logo) CV4024/M8162's and a pair of NOS RCA 5965 Copper S-Rod Triple Mica's.

    I probably should sell something before considering those Telefunken's. but I get attached to these darn things
    I'd take a pair, the only thing suspicious is his feedback. He's on his 3rd listing at the same price...........he should have lowered the price by now. I'd wait him out until he lowers the price. Looking at the construction they are the older of the two styles the 5965 comes in. These are rare tubes no matter which construction you find. Since they are long plate they might be prone to microphonics and what happens if one of us gets the microphonic one? I have an orphan so I could take just (1) tube to match my orphan and leave an extra if one of us has a microphonic one.

    The pair I bought turned out to be slightly microphonic, tube dampers seemed to tame them. That may not happen in all instances. I'd check with him about his return policy if they are microphonic.

    They are probably worth what he's asking, but I don't like his feedback and they aren't selling at that price so he needs to reduce them.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 04-11-2011 at 05:38 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Why not Auricaps? I love Auricaps for coupling caps. Those are not true Mullards, they are Russian repro's IIRC. Get some better OS tubes. Certainly take your time, but there is a whole other world of tubes better than (Russian) Mullard reproduction's.

    H9
    Heiney9 do you know what the voltage rating is on your Auricaps. Is it 400v also or did they install the 600v ones? I have nothing against the Auricaps, just don't want to spend a lot of time and money on tubes trying to match up with a generic capacitor. You have a lot of experience with this unit and if you are satisfied with the Auricap, that sounds good to me.

    The tubes were not purchased by me separately, came with the unit. Thanks for your feedback.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_alan View Post
    ^^^ Yeah, I saw that Telefunken auction too, but I'm not interested in 6 of them at that price. Splitting the auction 3 ways sound good to me, but it would be nice if we could get him down to $40 a tube (or less! ), as you suggested...
    I've initiated contact and will see if I can work something out that is fair and safe for all of us
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    The seller emailed this morning stating that the starting bid is $300 (plus $15 shipping to the US), he will not end the auction early, and his pricing is not negotiable by even one penny.

    He also said that the buyer keeps the tubes no matter what; No Returns.

    After this response, I have to agree with Brock that this seller's feedback indicates he's probably one to be avoided.

    Oh well. I tried
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    Yep, best to pass on this one. I have a line on dealer that supposedly has these. As soon as I get some time I will inquire and let everyone know.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    The seller emailed this morning stating that the starting bid is $300 (plus $15 shipping to the US), he will not end the auction early, and his pricing is not negotiable by even one penny.

    He also said that the buyer keeps the tubes no matter what; No Returns.

    After this response, I have to agree with Brock that this seller's feedback indicates he's probably one to be avoided.

    Oh well. I tried
    Charming fellow. I might of responded with a 'shove it' to a response like that.

    Got a good line on tubes here anyway with guys like you Brock, and Jon. I also have my secret source, but I ain't telling. It wouldn't be a secret then.

    BTW, Brock, I was on tubeasylum a couple nights ago and read the GE 5965 clear tops are supposed to be pretty good. I never rolled the ones I picked up from you awhile back, so I'm thinking I'll give 'em a try soon. I've just been enjoying these Valvos so much and if it ain't broke, I figure it don't need to be fixed.

    Cheers,

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Charming fellow. I might of responded with a 'shove it' to a response like that.

    BTW, Brock, I was on tubeasylum a couple nights ago and read the GE 5965 clear tops are supposed to be pretty good. I never rolled the ones I picked up from you awhile back, so I'm thinking I'll give 'em a try soon. I've just been enjoying these Valvos so much and if it ain't broke, I figure it don't need to be fixed.

    Cheers,

    Mike
    I have or had a pair of the GE 5965 clear tops..........IIRC, nothing special. I might have moved those along already. I haven't even upacked any tubes and not a single rig up and running yet since the move.


    if it ain't broke.....

    That's a good philosphy, and that's where I was until I found the TFK 5965's. I had heard about them and rarely see them FS so I decided to pull the trigger.....so glad I did, but I'm content for awhile, maybe for a long while.

    H9

    P.s. I'd say let the charming fellow hang on to his overpriced tubes. Actually he's about right on $$$, but with his attitude and NO RETURNS policy they aren't worth the price. I found a dealer in Vietnam that supposedly has these NOS in boxes. Most of the stuff on the website is in Vietnamese and I'm not sure how responsive the seller will be to my inquires.
    Last edited by heiney9; 04-12-2011 at 12:39 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I haven't even upacked any tubes and not a single rig up and running yet since the move.
    Janey and I may be homeless soon if this damn economy doesn't turn around soon. Got any spare rooms? :tongue:

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Janey and I may be homeless soon if this damn economy doesn't turn around soon. Got any spare rooms? :tongue:
    Yes, I do.........but I am quite sure you would hate the weather here in Illinois after a lifetime in Hawaii :tongue:

    Hang in there..........a family member was unemployed for 16 months and finally landed a great job.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    We have a contingency plan. Janey's gonna pimp me out. Long hours, but the pay will be great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    We have a contingency plan. Janey's gonna pimp me out. Long hours, but the pay will be great.
    Mike, you may need a cardboard sign that says, "Will Work For Toobs!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    Mike, you may need a cardboard sign that says, "Will Work For Toobs!"
    and vinyl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    The seller emailed this morning stating that the starting bid is $300 (plus $15 shipping to the US), he will not end the auction early, and his pricing is not negotiable by even one penny.

    He also said that the buyer keeps the tubes no matter what; No Returns.

    After this response, I have to agree with Brock that this seller's feedback indicates he's probably one to be avoided.

    Oh well. I tried
    Thanks for trying anyway, inspired. The no return policy is enough to make me leery...

    On a similar note, I received a pair of military spec GE JAN 12AT7WC tubes (circa 1977) in the mail today and just rolled them into my SL-2000a. So far they seem to have a better (lower) background noise level over the stock tubes. I'm not sure if I can hear much other difference, but they've only burned in for all of 45 minutes so far. If they improve like the stock ones did over the past several days, I think they'll be a good upgrade. At the very least I like the way they look better than the stock tubes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Default sl2000a and tubes

    Glad to read. All that find the darad as incredable as I do ( have a 2007 SE model) rolled tubes for some months both stock and some rca nos but bought some seimens from brent jesse and wow!!! Than upgrades to telefunken also from brent and I don't roll any more!!! The funkens handle everything perfectly!!!!! The darad is great but spend the money on the seimens or funkins you won't be disapointed just amazed! It was real good with the us tubes but the diff. With the better tubes was and is truely incredible! The price I paid for the tubes was not that much at all especially considering the improvement in all aspects- sound preasure and accuracy and low end. Didn't think my 12b's or ess-102's could possible sound that good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_alan View Post
    So far they seem to have a better (lower) background noise level over the stock tubes.
    Anything is better than those crappy, Shuguang stock tubes. GE made some very nice 6201s in their 5 Star series that are worth keeping an eye out for.
    I scored a triple mica, NOS pair (1959) on ebay last year for 25.00.
    Last edited by Keiko; 04-13-2011 at 03:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    He also said that the buyer keeps the tubes no matter what; No Returns.
    I took another look at his auction. His 'NO RETURNS' response is highly contradictive. If you look at shipping & payments, the return policy states 7 days after buyer receives it. Seems like he's trying to pull some BS. Even more reason to avoid this ass clown.

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    Nice to hear Audio Alan, but those GE's are still pretty middle of the road. Probably better than the Chinese. Have fun, keep rolling, but start to step it up. If you need recommendations let me know. If you can get the search function to work look for my other Dared posts. I rolled a lot of tubes and certainly wasn't shy about posting my impressions.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Anything is better than those crappy, Shuguang stock tubes. GE made some very nice 6201s in their 5 Star series that are worth keeping an eye out for.
    I scored a triple mica, NOS pair (1959) on ebay last year for 25.00.
    I almost won some 5 star's a couple days ago, but didn't bid high enough. I guess I need to be more agressive on some of these auctions...

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Nice to hear Audio Alan, but those GE's are still pretty middle of the road. Probably better than the Chinese. Have fun, keep rolling, but start to step it up. If you need recommendations let me know. If you can get the search function to work look for my other Dared posts. I rolled a lot of tubes and certainly wasn't shy about posting my impressions.

    H9
    Yeah, I figured the GE's probably wouldn't be top of the line, but also assumed they would be money well spent ($15 after shipping) just to replace the stock tubes and start me into rolling.... while I look for some of the more highly sought after tubes. Not to mention, getting the perfect tube right away might not be as fun as going through a few sets to find "it".

    I have been reading your other posts and will keep an eye out for some reasonably priced (yeah, right!) Tele's or Valvo's. I have an England made Brimar 5Z4G Rectifier on the way, so hopefully that makes some noticable improvements as well. Not sure of the vintage of the Brimar, but it looks old...

    What do you think about a pair of MULLARD ECC81 12AT7's?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_alan View Post
    I almost won some 5 star's a couple days ago, but didn't bid high enough. I guess I need to be more agressive on some of these auctions...



    Yeah, I figured the GE's probably wouldn't be top of the line, but also assumed they would be money well spent ($15 after shipping) just to replace the stock tubes and start me into rolling.... while I look for some of the more highly sought after tubes. Not to mention, getting the perfect tube right away might not be as fun as going through a few sets to find "it".

    I have been reading your other posts and will keep an eye out for some reasonably priced (yeah, right!) Tele's or Valvo's. I have an England made Brimar 5Z4G Rectifier on the way, so hopefully that makes some noticable improvements as well. Not sure of the vintage of the Brimar, but it looks old...

    What do you think about a pair of MULLARD ECC81 12AT7's?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
    If you are after GE tubes, you might consider RCA blackplates instead which aren't a lot more money (sometimes even the same amount), but are a LOT more tube.

    Telefunkens are never "reasonably" priced unless they are about shot, but you can sometimes find attractive buys on Valvo's. On the other hand, Telefunkens almost ALWAYS sound great.

    I picked this up from F1 (and have tried hard to beat them) and the best Mullard ECC81/12AT7 is the derivative military grade CV4024/M8162. They are plentiful and run between $25 and $30 per tube delivered. The best seem to be those with both CV4024 and M8162 stamped on the tube and the Mullard "Shield" logo present. They come from the Mitcham factory which is designated by the number "654" stamped somewhere on the tube.

    I have 7 very good to exceptional quads of 12AT7 or derivative (including a $500 NOS matched quad of the supposed holy grail Telefunken ECC801S's) and (AT LEAST IN MY AMP) a $100-$120 quad of Mullard CV4024/M8162's edges everything else out.
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    My faves, in no particular order:

    Valvo ECC801S

    Sylvania 6201 Gold Brand

    Telefunken / Siemens / Amperex Bugle Boy ECC81

    Raytheon 12AT7 3 mica-black plate

    GE 6201 5-Star 3 mica-black plate

    I'll add that I had some Amperex 7062 (1962) that I really liked a lot, but they were microphonic as all Hell and howled like a coyote in heat after a couple months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    If you are after GE tubes, you might consider RCA blackplates instead which aren't a lot more money (sometimes even the same amount), but are a LOT more tube.

    Telefunkens are never "reasonably" priced unless they are about shot, but you can sometimes find attractive buys on Valvo's.

    I picked this up from F1 (and have tried hard to beat them) and the best Mullard ECC81/12AT7 is the derivative military grade CV4024/M8162. They are plentiful and run between $25 and $30 per tube delivered. The best seem to be those with both CV4024 and M8162 stamped on the tube and the Mullard "Shield" logo present. They come from the Mitcham factory which is designated by the number "654" stamped somewhere on the tube.

    I have 7 very good to exceptional quads of 12AT7 or derivative (including a $500 NOS matched quad of the supposed holy grail Telefunken ECC801S's) and (AT LEAST IN MY AMP) a $100-$120 quad of Mullard CV4024/M8162's edges everything else out.
    Well, it's not that I'm looking for GE's in particular. I've just been looking for some good deals. I'll keep an eye out for some Valvo's. It seems like Telefunkens have "the name" and command top dollar, but if they're really worth it, maybe I should just drop the cash and be done with it. Either way, I'd like to build up a small-medium sized tube stash...

    How about these gold pin Mulards? Still the wrong model?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ECC801s-12AT7-Mu...item1c19fa153b

    One thing that's for sure, the tube world is a little confusing with so many variants, manufacturers, dates, military grade vs. not, etc., but I'm enjoying the challenge so far!

    Thanks for the continued advice guys. This really is a great forum!

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