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Thread: Holy Grail

  1. #121

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    Tracking mine and they might be here today. I'm looking forward to rolling them. Any microphonics with yours, Alan?

    Some tubes will glow brighter than others. Some of mine will flash when powered up. Startled the Hell outa me the first time. :tongue:

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_alan View Post
    I just installed my recently purchased Sylvania 5965 Gold Pins yesterday. They're still settling in, but they seem to be at least as good as the GE tubes I removed. One thing I noticed is they don't glow nearly as bright as the GE's (not that looks really matter, but just throught I'd mention it).

    I'm really looking forward to getting a better rectifier in there. That might be holding back the 12AT7's from showing their differences and truely shining (or not).
    They don't "glow" as much because they are lower gain tubes 47mu vs. 60mu. Yes, the rectifier will be an eye opener and should make a pretty noticeable difference. Especially if you are using the stock Chinese rectifier. Many European 12AT7's flash upon start-up, which is totally normal and not detrimental at all. My Valvo 12AX7's flash upon start up in the Norh amplifier.

    I don't believe there are many other 5965's that have 17mm long plates, so microphonics should not be a huge issue, but it still happens.

    Keep us posted.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #123

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    ^^^ No microphonics that I can hear. Although, I don't think I've installed any microphonic tubes yet, so I'm not exactly sure what to listen for...

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_alan View Post
    ^^^ No microphonics that I can hear. Although, I don't think I've installed any microphonic tubes yet, so I'm not exactly sure what to listen for...
    You'll know. Sounds like a microphone howling. This will give you an idea.

    http://youtu.be/QM2qWZYbInI

  5. #125

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    Got mine, rolled 'em and letting them warm up now. Once I spend some time with these I'll report back.

  6. #126

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    Going to reserve some judgement on these, but thus far, I'm digging the Sylvania 5965s. They have a rich detail and nice bottom end. I gave up a little bit of depth in my soundstage compared to the Valvo 6201s I had in there, but these still sound really good. Nice & quiet. The tubes are still new, so I expect them to improve over time. For a 20.00 investment, I have no complaints. Add a couple more to the arsenal.

  7. #127

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    I just received 3 RCA 5V4G rectifiers in the mail this morning! According to the auction, they date back to 1944/48/58. I can't wait to go home and try one of them! I'll let you guys know what I think vs. the stock rectifier after I've had a chance to play them for a bit...

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    Going to reserve some judgement on these, but thus far, I'm digging the Sylvania 5965s. They have a rich detail and nice bottom end. I gave up a little bit of depth in my soundstage compared to the Valvo 6201s I had in there, but these still sound really good. Nice & quiet. The tubes are still new, so I expect them to improve over time. For a 20.00 investment, I have no complaints. Add a couple more to the arsenal.
    Same way. As I PM'd last week, I have both Gold Brand (but not gold-pinned) and non-Gold Brand Sylvania 5965's That I give "A" grades to as they are very, very good (and affordable too ).
    Last edited by inspiredsports; 04-19-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    Same way. As I PM'd last week, I have both Gold Brand (but not gold-pinned) and non-Gold Brand Sylvania 5965's That I give "A" grades to as they are very, very good (and affordable too ).
    I also scoped out some of the RCA 5965s on the cheap. I may spring for those a little later on down the road. I am pleased with these Sylvanias tho. I have not rolled any Sylvz that I didn't like. I'd rate their 12AT7s as the best of all U.S. variants I rolled. I realize that's a subjective statement, but to my ears, they're a fine, affordable tube. They can compete with their pricier, European cousins easily. Quite a few rollers on audioasylum like the Sylvania 12AT7s also and rate them highly. Mahalo, Greg.

    Thanks to H9 also for sparking my interest. Scored some nice keepers here that didn't break the bank.
    Last edited by Keiko; 04-19-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  10. #130

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    makes me wish I never sold my rare JBL 100 watt tube amp...ok goin to find something with tubes in it and spend money i dont have.,lol
    Read thspecs,

    read the reviews, do the research but most importantly...Listen and make your own decisions.
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  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Yes, the rectifier will be an eye opener ....
    I thought this thread needed a 5Y3WGT rectifier tube in action photo. From the Hagerman Coronet 2 I built for Carl (schwarcw). I had it flipped over measuring voltages and this caught my eye.

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  12. #132

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    Glad you're digging your Sylvz, I confess those you sent me I don't really care for. They are a decent tube for sure, but there are many others that sound better to me in my rig. Namely any Telefunken or Valvo, Raytheon 6414's, RFT ECC81, RCA 12AT7 black plate, GE 5 ***** 6201, Amperex Bugle Boy sounds better to me.

    But that's what synergy is all about. I'd rate the SYlvz above any stock tube or even any new production tube, but they honestly don't get any playing time. But, I'll give 'em a shot again soon.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  13. #133

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    Spam - reported!

  14. #134

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    Brock, I'd rate my 6201 Gold Brand right up there with the Teles, Siemens and Valvos. Another one I really like are these mil.specs with the square getters. I have a quad just like the ones pictured in this link.

    http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...highlight=Teak

  15. #135

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    Mike, once I get some house expenses squared away I may start exploring more 12AT7 tubes again. I have a pair of 1950's JAN CHS 6SL7WGT black plate, square getter, which I absolutely love for my integrated, so I think there may be hope yet for some older Sylvz in the 12AT7 line.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  16. #136

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    I think what I like about these particular 5965s is the bottom end. I'm listening to The Yes Album (MFSL) right now and it's sounds pretty darn sweet. I'm going to spin some vinyl in a little while and see how the ol' Dynavector like 'em.

  17. #137

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    The bottom end on the Tele 5965 is HUGE, but never over done or bloated. Quite amazing since the Aleph has great low end already. People who complain about not getting sufficient bass from SDA's either have them set up incorrectly or poor gear choices. My 1C's sing in the bass area. Sub not needed by a long shot.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #138

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    The low end is where I'm lacking a bit in my rig since my mains are bookshelves (RTi6) so these do indeed put a little more thump into the mix.

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    The bottom end on the Tele 5965 is HUGE, but never over done or bloated. Quite amazing since the Aleph has great low end already. People who complain about not getting sufficient bass from SDA's either have them set up incorrectly or poor gear choices. My 1C's sing in the bass area. Sub not needed by a long shot.

    H9
    I agree about the SDA's and bass. The bass really seems to have been unleashed on my SDA-SRS's since added the Dared SL-2000a to my system. I can't say enough about that little unit...

  20. #140

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    Oh yeah! Dyna likey.

    Damn, I love tubes & vinyl.

  21. #141

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    Well, I'm still waiting on the Brimar rectifiers to be delivered from overseas, but I got a chance to play with the RCA rectifiers. Initial observations: I think the RCA is a bit more punchy, slightly deeper bass, and a slightly wider sound field. So far nothing is night and day different over the stock tube, but it's possible that I need to roll in some different 12AT7's to get the RCA rectifier to sound it's best. Additionally, my MIT EXP 2 cables are fairly new, so it's possible that they are having an impact on the sound quality as well. I'd like to explore getting some better interconnects too, to see if that makes a noticable difference with the Dared...

    Regardless, that little Dared continues to make me smile every time I fire it up and see the tubes start to glow. Most people don't know what they're missing!

  22. #142

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    Yep, you need to change ONE thing at a time to evaluate the change. Swapping rectifiers, 12AT7's and cables all at the same time will do nothing for trying to evaluate your rig.

    You will never get a baseline and then realize which piece made the most dramatic change. This hobby takes a lot of patience if you truly want to get the best synergy.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  23. #143

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    H9 - I hear what you're saying and I agree, but I think I have a method to my madness as well. Once I "know" that my cables and tubes are broke in, then I can swap, swap, swap, with the assumption that every component is behaving in its "optimal range". I figure, even if I totally let the MIT's burn in with the stock rectifier, switching to a new rectifier might not sound as good because that new rectifier hasn't been broken in yet. So I'd still need to wait for X hours/days/weeks to break in the new rectifier, and do a comparison at a later date anyway. Same thing with the 12AT7's...

    So, why not roll, roll, roll through several sets of rectifiers and 12AT7's over the next month or two, breaking them all in at the same time as the MITs?. At that point, I should have broken in Canare and MIT cables (plus a set of unused MIT cables as a baseline), 2 or 3 broken in rectifiers, and multiple sets of broken in 12AT7's. I can then try to do a more formalized approach to swaping components, with what should be "immediate" results because the components are already broken in. That seems to make sense to me anyway. Do you agree? If not, why?

    The only question is, which order?

    Cables, Rectifiers, 12AT7's?
    Rectifiers, Cables, 12AT7's?
    12AT7's, Rectifiers, Cables?
    Rectifiers, 12AT7's, Cables?
    12AT7's, Cables, Rectifiers?

    With as many combinations, tubes and variations of cables as I have, I think it might take me a loooooong time to make an accurate comparison. So, to some degree I'm not stressing over it and I'm just having a blast tube rolling and enjoying the great sounding music!

  24. #144

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    I've been in this hobby a long time and the best way is to swap one thing at a time if you are looking for accurate results as far as getting your rig to sound optimal for you.

    1) tubes don't take as long to break-in, in my experience. Perhaps 30-50 hours if not less.

    2) be sure anything tube powered is powered up at least 30 minutes prior to evaluation or critical listening.

    3) some changes will be immediate (if you have a baseline to compare) most will be subtle compared to your original baseline and may take a few listens with very familiar material.

    4) some changes yield no change compared to your baseline

    5) establish a baseline and then use the same familiar source material for evaluation.

    6) if there is no method you will be chasing your tail and you will start doubting what you hear both positively and negatively.

    7) if all this gear is new to you and you've added a lot to the rig, I'd say 6 months minimum to establish a reliable baseline.

    8) you may not be that interested in critical listening and just want something that sounds good at the moment without to much analysis. If that's the case you're certainly going about it right now.

    9) patience and long time listening is the only way to accurately evaluate changes in your rig.

    I've owned the Dared about 2 years and I've just now settled on my favorite tubes for it. It takes that long to evaluate.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  25. #145

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    Well, I'll just say I may have found my Holy Grail in these 5965s also. The bass extension I'm hearing with these is incredible. Tight, accurate and not sloppy at all. Warm, lush and tubey. I just emailed the seller and I'd like to get a second pair for backup. 10.00 each, it's a no brainer. Wish we lived closer to each other, Brock. I'd like to hear how the Sylvz compare to the Teles. I'm very pleased with these tubes.

  26. #146

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    Thanks for the advice and insight, Brock!

    Of course I want my setup to sound as good as it can, but when I buy a new toy, I want to play with it! Haha Not to mention, I want to know that the tubes I bought work, instead of putting them on a shelf and then 2 years later finding out I was scammed on an Ebay auction. Do you guy test your tubes right away, or do you just trust that they work?

    At this point, flawed or not, my approach is this:

    #1 Have fun, enjoy the music (because my rig sounds better that it ever has!!!)
    #2 Break in all the new equipment, so I don't have any doubts about their "broken-in status".
    #3 Slowly, methodically start comparing all of the broken-in equipment.

    Right now I'm in between #1 and #2.

    Even if I'm currently confusing my ears with this rapid change, I'll eventually settle into the MIT's, one rectifier, and one set of 12AT7's for a few months (or 6 months, as you suggested). Then, I'll start on #3 above. And if I'm missing out on another 5% improvement right now because I switched stuff too quickly, oh well, it's not the end of the world. I'll get "there" (wherever that is ) ... eventually...

  27. #147

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    Sounds good Alan.............probably better to have things broken in and then start the journey. As long as once you start your evaluation, you just change one thing at a time you should be good to go and it will be fun too!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  28. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Sounds good Alan.............probably better to have things broken in and then start the journey. As long as once you start your evaluation, you just change one thing at a time you should be good to go and it will be fun too!

    H9
    Yep, that's the plan. Sounds like I'm not too far off base then...

    Btw, you didn't comment on whether you try your tubes out right away, or if you just trust that they work. Or do you have a dedicated tube tester?

    One of the RCA rectifiers I bought recently had a small bead of glass rolling around inside of it. I definitely didn't want to wait on that one since I was skeptical that it was going to work. But, it worked without problems and sounded great! It must have been a manufacturing defect, I guess?

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    I usually try them right away. Older tubes may have glass pieces inside. Also on an old tube vs. current production always insert and remove the tube by grabbing the base. Small signal tubes don't have a base, but your rectifier does. Many times the glue becomes brittle over the past 50,60 years and if you pull on the glass envelope you could loosen the glue. Best practice it to handle the tube by the base.

    If the glass comes loose it can be re-glued, but why chance that if there is an alternate way to handle the tube.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  30. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I usually try them right away. Older tubes may have glass pieces inside. Also on an old tube vs. current production always insert and remove the tube by grabbing the base. Small signal tubes don't have a base, but your rectifier does. Many times the glue becomes brittle over the past 50,60 years and if you pull on the glass envelope you could loosen the glue. Best practice it to handle the tube by the base.

    If the glass comes loose it can be re-glued, but why chance that if there is an alternate way to handle the tube.

    H9
    To re-glue, do you have any hints about the procedure and what glue to use?
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