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Thread: DIY Speakers

  1. #1

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    Default DIY Speakers

    Sometime within the next 6 months, I should be in the market for a new set of speakers. When I took apart mine, I was very unimpressed by the tweeter. This led me to do some searches on speakers. What I found is generally, the components do not make up a significant cost of speakers.

    To this end, I would like to take up a proven DIY design that uses high quality components. I figure that I can get a lot more for my money going this route as I will not be paying for R&D, marketing, ect.

    The project would be a large undertaking (for me), so I want to do my research in advance. I will probably find someone to make the cabinets for me, and I will simply be handing assembly.

    I think I want to go with a tower speaker, with a driver that can go as low as around 30hz. I would want it to be versatile enough for HT and music, but with a focus on music. I want to stick with a conventional design. I would also like to use some sort of hard wood for construction, if even as an outer shell so that if it gets scratched, I can easily have it refinished.

    Does anyone know of any designs like this? Does anyone have experience building their own high quality speakers, what pitfalls did you run into in the process...and most importantly, were you satisfied upon completion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    Sometime within the next 6 months, I should be in the market for a new set of speakers. When I took apart mine, I was very unimpressed by the tweeter. This led me to do some searches on speakers. What I found is generally, the components do not make up a significant cost of speakers.

    To this end, I would like to take up a proven DIY design that uses high quality components. I figure that I can get a lot more for my money going this route as I will not be paying for R&D, marketing, ect.

    The project would be a large undertaking (for me), so I want to do my research in advance. I will probably find someone to make the cabinets for me, and I will simply be handing assembly.

    I think I want to go with a tower speaker, with a driver that can go as low as around 30hz. I would want it to be versatile enough for HT and music, but with a focus on music. I want to stick with a conventional design. I would also like to use some sort of hard wood for construction, if even as an outer shell so that if it gets scratched, I can easily have it refinished.

    Does anyone know of any designs like this? Does anyone have experience building their own high quality speakers, what pitfalls did you run into in the process...and most importantly, were you satisfied upon completion?
    PartsExpress has a whole section dedicated to DIY speaker builds. They list the parts you need, give you the wiring diagrams and the cabinet dimensions. If you could find someone to build the cabinets for you and know a bit about soldering your golden.

    Lots of parts here
    Check out the speaker projects here
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    Thor from Madisound.

    Its a Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u with the Millenium tweeter. Has gotta be bad ass.
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    What price range?

    Some suggestions for a first time build would be the NatalieP Tower, Zaph ZA series. These would be two budget builds.

    You could always go for one of the best higher end DIY designs and build the Statements. Not for the faint of heart.

    You need to check out HTGUIDE.COM, outside of the Techtalk forum at Partsexpress, you won't find a more knowledgeable group of guys out there when it comes to DIY speakers. I would post your same question over there to maximize your return.

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    The aforementioned PE and www.madisound.com are great resources.

    hey, baby... take a walk on the wild side...
    here are some more.

    http://www.wardsweb.org/Billfort/ (my daily drivers, with 604Es).



    http://www.brinesacoustics.com/Pages/Proposals.html#RS 40-1354a
    (you'll see a couple of photos of mine at the end of this subsection; these are dandy little loudspeakers)



    http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...mrh+Mark+Hardy
    (These are nice, too, and would be easy to build. Sadly, this particular driver has been discontinued by Fostex.)



    see also:
    www.t-linespeakers.org
    http://fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/
    http://www.zillaaudio.com/bib/bib.asp
    http://www.quarter-wave.com/
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3 View Post
    Thor from Madisound.
    I wouldn't recommend it. Although, there's a few crossover redesigns out there that may sound better.

    AFAIK, these are all available in kit form and sound good: http://www.clearwaveloudspeaker.com/

    There's also: http://www.selahaudio.com/

    And there are some interesting projects here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3 View Post
    Thor from Madisound.

    Its a Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u with the Millenium tweeter. Has gotta be bad ass.
    I know years ago the Thor had some design snafu's that had a good # of DIY'ers up in arms. Not sure if what they have on the sight is a revised build or not.

    If you want a like speaker (MTM Tline) then Dennis Murphy has a new build out with Seas woofers and either the Dayton RS28a or Fountek Ribbon as tweeter options.

    Dennis is one of the guys responsible for the designs over at Salk Sound.

    This design will probably get you a few percentage points away (or simply compete) with the Thor and do it for almost 1/3 the cost.

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    I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all this yet.. it seems like I just got bombed with info lol. Thanks, I'll be able to read them when I get out of class

    Someone asked about price... well... not including cabinet? Dunno, what's reasonable? What will give me 5k worth of sound? what about 10k?

    Nice cat, by the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post

    I think I want to go with a tower speaker, with a driver that can go as low as around 30hz. I would want it to be versatile enough for HT and music, but with a focus on music. I want to stick with a conventional design. I would also like to use some sort of hard wood for construction, if even as an outer shell so that if it gets scratched, I can easily have it refinished.

    Does anyone know of any designs like this?
    These should fit most if not all of your criteria. http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    I'm gonna be honest, I haven't read all this yet.. it seems like I just got bombed with info lol. ..

    Nice cat, by the way
    Was that not your goal? :-)

    The kitteh provides critical damping and is essential to the jaw-dropping midrange presence of those loudspeakers ;-)
    all the best,
    mrh

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    This is my universal reply... I addressed all posts in one :P

    I checked out the parts express ones and all I can say is wow... there are tons of options.

    I looked at the Thors... they seem expensive for what they are... over two grand if you buy their cabinets... that's less than half off. In DIY circles you hear things like "1k for 10k of sound" (don't know if there is any truth to that). 2.1k for 3.8k of sound sounds like I should just buy used. Maybe I'm missing something

    Ah, the Statements.. interesting, I was looking at those yesterday. I couldn't find a price rundown... what makes them difficult?

    Whoa dude (man with the cat :P) those are some exotics in my book. I never understood, or heard single driver speakers... how do you get all that sound out of just one driver??

    Face, you posted some interesting speakers. Have you had the chance to listen to any of those? Any favorites? I remember hearing about ClearWave a while ago.

    Ok, so... that's a lot of suggestions. now, here is where I ask... do any of these have reputations of being excellent designs? I am looking for a DIY with a reputation, maybe a long standing favorite. I hear a lot about box design and it's supposed to be very accurate, but I've seen some "give or take" kind of talk in some of these DIY pages. I am looking for something very ... i don't know how to say it... built to exacting tolerances? Something that expects that you can build excellent cabinets... I hope to have someone with access to a CNC machine do the cabinets.

    Basically, I want to build something that can compete with high end speakers.. maybe in the 10k range... am I shooting too high for a first build, or does that even matter if I have an expert build the cabinets?

    Thanks again
    Last edited by cokewithvanilla; 04-05-2011 at 07:32 PM.

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    $10k for store-bought speakers in 2011 ain't high-end :-(

    I dunno; "Billfort's" corner cabinets for Altec Duplexes are all the loudspeaker I'll ever need. The cabinets and the drivers have an excellent reputation. If you don't want to use 40, 50, or 60-plus year old drivers, new production Duplexes of excellent quality are available from Great Plains Audio at very reasonable prices. (The original version of the Duplex, with a field coil magnet, was introduced in the early 1940s).

    http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/two_way.html

    If you want to go precision, maybe you'd prefer something like a Lowther back horn, or, heck, a DIY Klipschorn folded horn enclosure?! Lowther drivers have been in production since the late 1930s, and the Klipschorn since 1948, so they must be doing something right...


    http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpeg/medallion.jpg


    http://hifikit.se/prod_bilder/1624fr.jpg (this is for a Fostex FE-206E)


    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour1/horn1.jpg


    PWK himself with a K-horn in Lucite :-)

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NVQujPOPx2...2BHorn.JPG.jpg


    http://a2.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...12658edb/l.jpg


    http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/sto...18205/KCA1.jpg


    I provide the links in case hotlinking's not allowed...
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 04-05-2011 at 08:14 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post

    Ah, the Statements.. interesting, I was looking at those yesterday. I couldn't find a price rundown... what makes them difficult?
    My Statements with Cherry Veneer MDF will cost me ~$1100. My electronics (X-Over and Speakers) were ~$800 and the MDF $200.

    They are difficult due to size, the mid-tunnels, the amount of drivers. They are ~120lbs per speaker when finished. I went the extra step and dado'd all the panels. Let me tell you these speakers are a lot of work. I have heard others place these speakers square in the $15K space.

    You need a room that can allow placement 18" from the back and 12" from the side walls they will be against. So they aren't everyone's cup of tea if you don't have the placement options..

    With a baby in the house I have sporadically worked on these for 5 months. X-overs I had done in an evening though

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    Here are some great vintage plans:
    http://www.tubebooks.org/file_downlo...spkr_plans.pdf

    Here are more:
    http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...ltec-plans.htm


    The new but very cool Fonken, inspired by the classic Onken:
    http://www.planet10-hifi.com/fonken.html
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Has anyone tried making speakers using high-end tweeters (such as Sans or Scan Speak) costing $100 or more? I am curious to know how they sound.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.

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    I have yet to try any >$100 tweets but there are several excellent choices in the $40-$50range.My fave would be these that were about $40 a pop.http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=...=90&Itemid=114

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTGV View Post
    I have yet to try any >$100 tweets but there are several excellent choices in the $40-$50range.My fave would be these that were about $40 a pop.http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=...=90&Itemid=114
    Yes, these are spectacular tweeters (used in the BAMTM). Flat FR, and very low distortion in the 2kHz region is what makes them great I think.

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    Wow, maybe I didn't mean that much of a reputation haha... I like to think we've made progress in speaker design since then (I hope!). I think the oldest design I would want to do would be like 10 years old.... If at all possible, I would like something that looks like furniture as well (I know, picky, picky, right?).. maybe a bit modern.

    Ahh, I guess 10k sounds expensive to me... ha, the whole LSi setup wasn't even that much :)... kay, maybe I should shoot for 15-20?

    jinjuku, how close are you to completion? I take it you are building the cabinets yourself? Ah, placement issues... well... I've always liked being able to place my speakers far from the side walls and at least 8 feet apart... but, to be honest, apartment life will probably be a reality for me for some time now. I can't afford to lock myself down with a house at this point. But hell, in my current apartment, my monitors are ... well, were.. they are broken now (my fault), 48 from the back walls and 18 from the sides... so I think I could probably swing that in an apartment.

    oh man, those are vintage! hah, I guess I was born too late to like the vintage look. Like I said, I hope to utilize some of the advances in technology, or at least changes in cabinet design. I do like a slimmer cabinet... it really seems to fit better with modern furniture.

    FTVG... those are all open baffle, right? I've never had a chance to listen to an OB design. I have very little experience with listening to a wide variety of speakers. Most shops have the conventional designs and maybe some ESL... for this reason, I might want to stick to conventional. Do OB have a general characteristic, or are they just like any other speaker?

    High end tweeterS!! that really gets my attention, my low end tweeters make me wanna puke :) I would not mind trying a design with $100 tweeters. Has anyone heard them? I would definitely spring for the extra $120 (or whatever) to have some really sweet tweeters.

    ok, so I guess now, after looking at options, I can get a bit more specific. I think I want a conventional design, fairly slim cabinet, modern design (but with a reputation of being a sold performer), I wanna go with a real nice tweeter, I wanna hit 30hz, and I want it to perform with 15-20k speakers

    When I read on some DIY forums, some people were less than satisfied with the outcomes of their speaker... I don't know if this is because they built the cabinets incorrectly or what, but after I spend my money on this, I really don't want to be disappointed. I don't know if there are any speakers that have been built many times, and have all turned out right.. I suppose that's what I mean by reputation... maybe I should say "not entirely easy to screw up".. or consistent.
    Last edited by cokewithvanilla; 04-06-2011 at 05:45 AM.

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    oo, maybe another requirement I should add... I want the ability to make them cat proof. That means they have to weigh a lot (my cat can knock down the monitors, but not the lsi's), and maybe metal grills... I assume that can go for anything though... also, they would either have to be tall enough so that he couldn't jump on them, or low enough so that he easily can... cause if it's in the middle, he will simply try and scratch the crap out of them on the way.

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    I dunno, when I think of "high-end" tweeters, I think of things that are rather pricier than 100 smackers. Heck, it is 2011; a cup of coffee can set one back four or five bucks.


    Here are a couple of fairly nice ones from Fostex, e.g.

    https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...roducts_id=294


    https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...roducts_id=283 (horn not included; just the driver)

    A nice pair of ribbon tweeters would set one back a few samoleums, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    Wow, maybe I didn't mean that much of a reputation haha... I like to think we've made progress in speaker design since then (I hope!). I think the oldest design I would want to do would be like 10 years old.... If at all possible, I would like something that looks like furniture as well (I know, picky, picky, right?).. maybe a bit modern.
    Nope, not really much progress in fundamentals since the 1930s. Different approaches, yes, because now power is cheap, so speaker drivers can be very inefficient and/or operated in very narrow passbands (due to the excessive breakup distortion of modern high-rigidity, low-mass cone materials) requiring very complex and inefficient (but easily designed by computer) crossover/filter networks :-) One area of true progress, in fairness, has been improvement in imaging due to better understanding and correction of diffraction effects... you should listen to some top-end sixty year old loudspeakers and compare them against the young guns (the latter are likely be an order of magnitude more expensive than used examples of the former!) before deciding a priori that newer is better.


    heh. I really do sound like a doddering old man now. I'll butt out now and leave you young whippersnappers to your Wilsons and your Sonus Fabers and whatnot now :-)
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 04-06-2011 at 08:11 AM.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Wow, that is an impressive looking tweeter! i don't think I am man enough to progress to that level :) Again, I find my poor mans mentality has skewed my thought of High end :P. As far as price goes, I would probably limit myself to 100 something for a tweeter. Of course, if that won't give me the sound I am looking for, I would be up for a bit more.

    That's interesting, I would think with all the extra precision we have these days, and crazy new materials would mean much greater performance. I guess I'll have to go out and listen to some oldies sometime.

    The statements and their price at them moment is extremely attractive, if they produce sound in the 15k range as mentioned. They are kinda ugly though. If I could get away at 1500, as suggested, I would have to suggest that my price range will be 1000-2000, assuming 10x performance vs retail.

    I would imagine that I would be happy with even 10k of sound (or less for that matter), considering my most expensive speaker to date has been the LSi25. But, if I am going to spend all the time and effort getting these things together, I want them to be damn well worth the time :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    jinjuku, how close are you to completion? I take it you are building the cabinets yourself?
    I have a build thread in the DIY section. I have the baffles cut and getting ready to drill all the speaker mount holes. Need to route out the back of the speaker holes, round over the baffle edge, mount the speakers and test crossovers.

    Then it is seal the exposed MDF edge, prime and paint. Going to go out this weekend and find some granite for the outriggers. Just a lot of little stuff.

    You could try the pre-built Parts Express cabinets also BTW. I would seriously consider the NatalieP design. I believe at the 2008 or 2007 RMAF the NatP's trounced the Paradigm Studio 100's in most peoples opinion.
    Last edited by jinjuku; 04-06-2011 at 09:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    The statements and their price at them moment is extremely attractive, if they produce sound in the 15k range as mentioned. They are kinda ugly though. If I could get away at 1500, as suggested, I would have to suggest that my price range will be 1000-2000, assuming 10x performance vs retail.
    From what you have been putting out there you should really also consider the Dennis Murphy Tline MTM. It will give you almost all aspects you are looking for:

    Foot print, solid and authoritative base, good mid and high's. Easier placement.

    Consider the NatP's your low/medium and the TLine MTM your high end if you don't want to do the Statements.

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    Personally, I've been wanting to take this for a whirl:
    http://www.minidsp.com/

    While you can't pair up any tweeter with any woofer, it'll let you model a crossover without having to build anything. Just don't hook the amp to your tweeters until you're sure you've got them filtered right (may want put a cap on the tweeter for a simple high-pass at a low cut point until you nail the design)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinjuku View Post
    From what you have been putting out there you should really also consider the Dennis Murphy Tline MTM. It will give you almost all aspects you are looking for:

    Foot print, solid and authoritative base, good mid and high's. Easier placement.

    Consider the NatP's your low/medium and the TLine MTM your high end if you don't want to do the Statements.
    Ok, so I looked at the statements site and it seems the dirvers that were orignally used are no longer available... they have some listed ones that might work ...
    Plug and play? Well sort of? We won?t know for sure until we do, but based on the present data, they may very well work acceptably well with no crossover modifications at all
    It's that kinda stuff about DIY that scares me...

    I can't find a link for the Tline MTM's... I see them mentioned and I see on the transmission line site there is "Straight MTM" but the link it broken. How do those compare to the statements? Oh, and with the statements, is there an available printed circuit board for the XO's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by unc2701 View Post
    Personally, I've been wanting to take this for a whirl:
    http://www.minidsp.com/

    While you can't pair up any tweeter with any woofer, it'll let you model a crossover without having to build anything. Just don't hook the amp to your tweeters until you're sure you've got them filtered right (may want put a cap on the tweeter for a simple high-pass at a low cut point until you nail the design)
    I have a MiniDSP 2X4 balanced on the way. It may replace my DCX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    Ok, so I looked at the statements site and it seems the dirvers that were orignally used are no longer available... they have some listed ones that might work ...
    With Partsexpress discontinuing the shielded RS lineup (they brought back one variant however) the design for the statement should remain largely unaffected. Just a change in F3 from what I have been reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by cokewithvanilla View Post
    I can't find a link for the Tline MTM's... I see them mentioned and I see on the transmission line site there is "Straight MTM" but the link it broken. How do those compare to the statements? Oh, and with the statements, is there an available printed circuit board for the XO's?
    I linked to a build thread earlier for the Tline MTM.

    I believe the Statements will outperform and cost about the same when it is all said and done vs the Tline MTM. It's simply a size and ability to place them issue that will factor into your build choice.

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    ok, it looks like the statements are number one on my list right now. I kind of wish they used a bit more expensive parts, but maybe it's not necessary. I am sending out the plans to some people... is there anything I should note that might not be fully explained in the plans?

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