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Thread: LSiM 707 Review

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    Post LSiM 707 Review

    I know a lot of you guys have been waiting for this review, so here it is. My apologies for it taking so long, but I wanted to test them in every way I could before making a peep. I started to make this short, but decided to take the time to cover every last detail and leave no stone unturned.

    Setup:
    Setup's a piece of cake... if you have two people. The 707s weigh 100lbs. each, so you either better have some muscle or some help to get them where you want them. They're 50" tall, 18.5" deep, and 10.5" wide, and the pair of them nearly completely filled the bed of my Silverado. Getting the speakers out of their boxes and setup in your room is doable if you're alone provided you have a good dolly at your disposal, but I don't recommend the solo bit if you don't have the dolly or have to take them up a curved staircase. I had to take mine up a straight staircase with a 90-degree turn at the bottom, so all I had to do is get the box around the turn and push it right up the stairs. I'm not saying that it was easy, but it's possible. Getting them out of the boxes is a helluva lot easier if you're working with someone, but is manageable by yourself. Spikes are permanently integrated into the bottom of the towers, and rubber covers are included for use on hard flooring. These spikes are less lethal than the ones included with the previous generation, so no more deep gouging from a speaker laying on its side (happened to me almost two years ago when I had one of my 25s on its side to take the spikes out? left a nice permanent scar on my left knee). Adjustments are made from the top of the floorplate via an allen-wrench, so turning the speaker on its side to adjust the spikes is a thing of the past. I never made any adjustments of the 707s while I had them since I didn't have the allen-wrench, but that does make things a lot easier.

    The rear has a metal plate with two pairs of binding posts. The top set goes to the tweeter and mid combo, while the bottom set goes to the midbass driver and the 6x9 woofers. Instead of the dinky metal-tab style jumpers from the last series, the two sets are paired up with a set of real jumpers, which are finished with the "polkaudio" logo? a nice, unexpected touch. They can easily be removed for bi-wiring or bi-amping.

    Fit and finish:
    The set I had for review was cherry, and tbh, in the case of the towers I really prefer the overall presentation of my LSi25 moreso than the 707. The cherry finish doesn't have that real, grainy look of the previous generation. I also liked how the sides of the 25s have the piano-gloss black contrasting the cherry finish, whereas on the 707 it's cherry all the way up. The towers look great with the magnetic grills on or off, and for once in my life I preferred the look of grills-on. I still would kill to have polk offer a "maple", "natural birch", and full piano-gloss black finishs, but that doesn't seem to be in the works yet, and my guess is it won't be ever, but who knows what the future will hold. Maybe polk will figure out eventually that if someone's spending $4k on a pair of speakers, they'll probably want more than two options for colors.

    I unfortunately did encounter some quality-control issues with one of the towers. Along the bottom front-baffle seam, the edge was completely unfinished, which I thought was a pretty big lack of attention to detail during the manufacturing process. Also, on the same speaker, I was using a soft cloth to remove my fingerprints and clean it up before taking it over to Walter's, the gloss-black finish chipped around two of the drivers, and it looked like the gloss-black finish was thin in another spot. Also, I could hear the magnets knock against the cabinet when I installed/uninstalled the grill, like they were loose in whatever chamber/compartment they're mounted in. All of that was isolated to one of the speakers, so I'm hoping the problem was just a fluke. The only thing that I didn't like that was on both was where the front baffle was attached to the rest of the speaker. It was like they painted the seam, but not all that well. I don't mean to be anal, but if I was spending $4k on a pair of speakers, they better be pretty damn perfect.

    Future Upgradability:
    No more tiny, inconveniently-located crossover boards. They're a lot bigger with easy access. Larger speaker holes mean the ability to fit larger components more comfortably, so you can keep it all internal despite heavy-duty hot-rodding. The 707s use separate boards for the HF and LF sets, so you're not trying to moosh as much stuff onto a single board, nor do you have to go about inventing a sister-board that wasn't already there in the original design. Space is a little tighter for the HF board though, but nothing that's not manageable. You might have to get creative if large caps come into play. The LF board is in one of the sub enclosures with plenty of room in every direction, so large caps and inductors will be right at home. The lineup has a great sound as-is, and can (scarily) get even better with high-grade parts. This lineup's crossovers are quite improved over the LSi boards, but there's still room for improvement, so if you're going to upgrade, go with the better/best parts available.

    Listening:
    Keep in mind that my two listening areas are less-than-ideal but not horrible either, and despite them being quite different from eachother, my results in each room where somewhat similar. The first listening area I used was my HT room, a glorified 12'x14'x8' bedroom that's completely closed with the exception of two doors. Next was my living room which is considereably larger in every dimension, measuring 20.5'x19.5'x12', and opens up to a dining room and hallway to the rear and rear-left.

    In short, they carried over the smoothness of the 703s, but I felt they weren?t quite as buttery-smooth as the 703s. There were a couple shortcomings. The 703s put me in this... state of tranquility... for lack of better description, like they?re a magical ?instant-grin-machine?, whereas the 707s seemed to be a little feisty and took a bit of work to get them to finally sound good, and even then I wasn't content to the extent that the 703s gave me. The imaging is still great, as the same LSiM HF setup is used across the board, but the 707s don't have a ported midbass section (really would've loved that), whereas the 703s did. I think that took away from the impact a little. "But they have dual 6x9s Jim...", I can picture some of you thinking that same thing as you finished reading that last statement, but the 6x9s are tuned for the "sub-bass", so they don't lend much help toward the the midbass which charmed me so adamantly on the 703s. The 6x9s are tuned independently from each other, with one using a much longer port that's slightly smaller in diameter, the other using a shorter but larger port. They do well on the lowest bass, but the higher bass was just not nearly as punchy and present as I would?ve liked, and the bass overall was quieter than I?d anticipated

    I was just really let down by the missing midbass and lack of smoothness. I would gladly blame it on my environment or gear if I experienced this with any of my other speakers combined with my PSW1000, but it?s isolated to to the towers. I'm not begging for a Cerwin-Vega-esque sub-bass boom to shake the rafters, but I expected more of a floor-stander with dual ported 6x9s. I also kept incurring this quirky phasing issue in the bass regions when listening to my reference sources, which wasn't remedied by the larger room nor multiple MCACC tunes (FYI, I used the MCACC to make adjustments for distance, level, etc. but left signal manipulation such as the EQ out of play). The only desirable result I found was to cross them at 50Hz and let my PSW1000 supply the lowest bass from a single source with out competition from other sources. Something worth noting which I also experienced with the 703s is that the MCACC in my Elite detects the speakers as ?out of phase? until the LF drivers? polarity is swapped. Weird stuff?

    Power:
    As far as power requirements go, these speakers need a good bit of juice to perform sufficiently. I tried them in 4 different configurations: using the SC-37's on-board amplifier, 2-ch & "bi-amp", and then I tried a single Operetta followed by two Operettas vertically bi-amped. Anything with 150wpc will work in a bedroom, but definitely use an amplifier capable of 200wpc @ 4-ohms or greater for a larger room to reach reference levels. The two Operetta amplifiers were more than enough when I had the high-pass crossover active, as was the receiver in bi-amp mode, but in full-range either one is cutting it a little close. Setting my receiver at -18.0 dB was plenty of volume to fill my room without being overbearing.

    Afterthoughts:
    I feel that with some minor equalization I could've replicated the sound I was hoping for. More power would've been nice, but not a necessity. Hopefully the crossovers will be revised to bring the whole LF setup into play a bit more. It might all chalk up to a lack of synergy, but that wasn't issue whatsoever with the 703s, so I suspect it's more than just that. Hopefully Walter will discredit my negatives and it was just a weird synergy anomaly that carried throughout my home.

    Associated equipment:
    Pioneer Elite SC-37 receiver, two Operetta AV-AP2140P-SO amplifiers, PSW1000 + Aurapad, Monster Cable interconnects, Cardas power cables (for the Operettas), AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable, Monster Cable speaker cable, iPod Video via USB, iPhone 4 via USB, one handle of Forty Creek whisky.
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    Last edited by JimAckley; 06-11-2011 at 03:05 AM.
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    Very good, honest, and thorough review Jim!
    ALL BOXED UP for a while until I save up for a new place :(

    Home Theater:
    KEF Q900s / MIT Shotgun S3 / MIT CVT2 ICs | KEF Q600C | Polk FXi5 | BJC Wire | Signal / AQ ICs | Shunyata / Pangea PCs | Pioneer Elite SC 57 | Parasound NC2100 Pre | NAD M25 | Marantz SA8001 | Schiit Gungnir DAC | SB Touch

    2 Channel:
    Polk LSi9 (xo mods), Polk DSW MicroPro 2000 sub | NAD c375BEE | W4S DAC1 | SB Touch | Marantz SA-8001 | MIT AVt 2 | Kimber Hero / AQ / Signal ICs | Shunyata / Signal PCs

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    interesting !! thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough write-up.

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    Nice honest review. I too hope they will offer some additional finish options.

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    Jim, thanks for the honest review. Regarding the finish, I totally agree, for 4k I don't want ANY imperfections. They are probably a little out of my budget anyway, however your glowing review of the 703's definitely has my attention.

    I am also interested in the 705's, I sure wish you could review those. Do you have any plans to listen to them?

    Btw, you have a beautiful home!

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    Thanks for the review and all of the photos!
    Do you hear that buzzing noise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger View Post
    ...you have a beautiful home!
    absolutely agreed.

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    You will get some more smoothness by throwing that Monster power strip out the window. I would have experiment with placement more too. Otherwise, thanks for the honest review.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Nice pics, Jim. The packing reminded me of just how big and heavy those little monsters are! Was all the listening done through USB digital devices via the Elite as a Pre? I assume you were using 'lossless' files, right? It's interesting to hear your take on these and I don't mean to disagree but, mid-bass was not a weakness when we heard them in Jersey? The very bottom end was 'typical' Polk though, very tight --perhaps too tight for my particular tastes?

    In any case. Thanks for your take. Look forward to hearing from more on these. I also think Face (Mike) has a point above.

    Nice Living Room, I'm envious!

    cnh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    You will get some more smoothness by throwing that Monster power strip out the window. I would have experiment with placement more too. Otherwise, thanks for the honest review.
    Before I go any further, let me first say that the 707s do sound great, and my "bar" or "benchmark" was set by the 703s, which is what I sat down and had a detailed listening session with first. I feel they're set up better than the 707s. That was reconfirmed when I swapped 707s with 703s with Walter yesterday, and hooked the 703s up in my house for the 2nd time. They're just that much better. It's a noticeable difference. I agree that the Monster power strip isn't great, but it's better than my junky Enercell strips that I have lying around. The bitch of it though, is that the 703s sounded like a better speaker using all of the same gear, so I don't hold the Monster responsible for the sound.

    I'm by no means an audio engineer, but if I had my way I would've kept the same "703" package on top on their own, with the 6x9s to carry supplemental bass, and split the binding posts between the "703" and 6x9s. I think they "screwed up" (that term being very loosely used) by putting the 6.5" in the LF set. Putting it in a small, sealed enclosure it seems to have choked the life out of it compared to the larger sealed enclosure it resided in with the 703s. That same driver in the 703s kicked me in the face with every hit, but didn't do the same in the 707s.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Nice pics, Jim. The packing reminded me of just how big and heavy those little monsters are! Was all the listening done through USB digital devices via the Elite as a Pre? I assume you were using 'lossless' files, right? It's interesting to hear your take on these and I don't mean to disagree but, mid-bass was not a weakness when we heard them in Jersey? The very bottom end was 'typical' Polk though, very tight --perhaps too tight for my particular tastes?

    In any case. Thanks for your take. Look forward to hearing from more on these. I also think Face (Mike) has a point above.

    Nice Living Room, I'm envious!

    cnh
    The packing is a PITA to do solo, especially if you're repacking them for transportation. I used the exact same setup as the 703 review, and the only exception was that I eventually added the Operetta amplifiers to the mix. The SC-37 was used as my "pre" and all of the listening was done with my devices hooked up via USB. I know it's not the "ideal" but I don't have the $ to send towards an iPod DAC yet. I definitely intend on getting one though. Yes, I was using lossless files. I have all of my iPods and my iPhone setup to convert any added file to AAC. I only have a few CDs, so I didn't bother hooking up my SACD player. And it's totally okay to disagree with me, as I'm just one guy sharing his experience with them. We all have different tastes and what works for one guy might not for the next. The midbass is there, but it just doesn't come with the same force as it does via the 703s. I agree that it may be too tight. Mike has a point, but the point is kinda moot when other speakers manage to work fine with the given setup.

    And thanks to all for the compliments on the house! I greatly appreciate that!
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    Jim thanx for the review good job with it and that you enjoyed them.

    these are in comparison with Paradigm Signature S8 wonder how the 707's cmpare to these.

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    Default LSiM 703 vs. 707

    Jim,
    I'm a new member that just signed up. I was planning on buying the LSiM 707's but the opinion seems the
    703 midrange is smoother and performs better than the 707's. The 707's you compared to had 40 hours of burn in.
    A speaker that size needs at least 200 hours. Polk reccomends at least 80 hour's. Polk informed me the 707's have
    high power capability and can handle 1000 watts rms as long as you don't clip the amp. Using a receiver to test these models is really under powering what their capable of. I was planning on using a pair of Bel Canto Ref1000M mono's at 500 watts per side. As we are aware, higher power results in better performance, especially with an 8 ohm speaker impedance that the 707 and 703' are. If you continue an evaluation on the 707's in weeks to
    come, and plan on using high powered high end seperates to further evaluate the 707's, I'm certain tha the speaker's midrange performance and smoothness will equal the 703's since Polk informed me the 707's are every bit as smooth and perform equally as well as the 703's. The 707 has two cross over boards and only one in the 703's.
    More electronic's to burn in. Look forward to the continuing testing. Glen

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    Nice review and thank you for taking the time to write it.
    I really want to demo these speakers. Hope they make it to the east coast soon.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

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    Jim sir,

    if you have the time and want, you should open em up and show the space and the XO boards for future mods out there.

    I am dying to know.

    ESR
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)

    More to come

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    Jim,
    I'm a new member that just signed up. I was planning on buying the LSiM 707's but the opinion seems the
    703 midrange is smoother and performs better than the 707's. The 707's you compared to had 40 hours of burn in.
    A speaker that size needs at least 200 hours. Polk reccomends at least 80 hour's. Polk informed me the 707's have
    high power capability and can handle 1000 watts rms as long as you don't clip the amp. Using a receiver to test these models is really under powering what their capable of. I was planning on using a pair of Bel Canto Ref1000M mono's at 500 watts per side. As we are aware, higher power results in better performance, especially with an 8 ohm speaker impedance that the 707 and 703' are. If you continue an evaluation on the 707's in weeks to
    come, and plan on using high powered high end seperates to further evaluate the 707's, I'm certain tha the speaker's midrange performance and smoothness will equal the 703's since Polk informed me the 707's are every bit as smooth and perform equally as well as the 703's. The 707 has two cross over boards and only one in the 703's.
    More electronic's to burn in. Look forward to the continuing testing. Glen
    I don't think I mentioned it in my review, but I had the 707s in my possession for 10+ days, and literally had them on day and night. Not to mention this particular set had been played at Russman's house prior to me getting them, and IIRC, they were also played quite a bit at Lonestar Audiofest, so by the time I had written my review they easily had 300-400 hours on them. The 703s, on the other hand, only had 40 hours of play time, and whooped the broken-in 707s.

    I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that "we" don't know or agree that higher power means better performance. Higher power means more headroom and higher output capabilities. I've heard 50W RMS-per-channel amplifiers that sound 100x better than 1kW RMS-per-channel amplifiers. Remember, "quality, not quantity". If you're working with a small room and your speakers are close, 200w would be more than enough to reach your target SPL levels. If you're working with a larger room such as a living room, or a dedicated home theater, I would shoot for a high-current amplifier that will put out around 400w RMS-per-channel. I typically have my volume on my receiver at around -18.5dB, so I'm not even closer to maxing it out when doing my listening sessions. Not to mention, my receiver is a $2200 Pioneer SC-37, and not a cheap $150 Sony or Yamaha. It cleanly drove 7 LSi-series speakers without breaking a sweat when I had my 7.1 setup. But that doesn't even matter since I used two Operetta AV-AP2140P-SO amplifiers to drive them, and split the channels between the high and low inputs of the speaker.

    I'm pretty sure I noted all of the above in one way or another in my review. Take some time and read it again, as well as the other reviews. Since you're new to the forums, take some time and dig around. There's quite a bit to learn about each of the lines that you'll only get here and not from Polk's Customer Service. And of course Polk is going to assure you that the 707s will perform just as well and as smooth as the 703s. What company would really say, "Yeah... actually our $4000 towers are so-so, and our much-cheaper $1500 bookshelves are actually a lot better!" Since I had pre-production models, they might have changed up the crossovers to fix the response issues for the final release. I'm hoping that's gonna be the case.

    Furthermore, I would be very hesitant to try and pass 1kW RMS through the 707s. They're power hungry, but not THAT power hungry. I don't see them taking the same beating as my 15s without a smoke show. The motor structure of the 707's 6x9s really aren't very big. Maybe that was just the case for the pre-production models I had, but from what I saw, 1kW would've blown them. The 707s I had used pretty much the same motor for the 6.5" midbass and the 6x9s. The 6x9s' motors were altered to allow for more excursion, but there's almost no way you're gonna pass that much power through them over extended periods without either mechanical or thermal failure. They might be able to handle peaks upwards of 1kW, but continuous is a whole other deal.

    Obviously the 707s are going to have more crossover components, since they have more drivers, but having more crossover components doesn't make a difference in how quickly it's gonna break-in. They are all going to burn in at the same time, and at the same rate. Having them on separate boards doesn't make a difference either. It simply allows more space for the components, plus it cuts down on wiring to have the woofers' XO right behind the woofers, and the mid/tweeter XO up by the mid and tweeter. The towers I'm building right now have separate boards for the crossovers because it's simpler that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esreuter View Post
    Jim sir,

    if you have the time and want, you should open em up and show the space and the XO boards for future mods out there.

    I am dying to know.

    ESR
    PM me your email. Since I had pre-production models, I'm not gonna post them.
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    Glen, the 703's had a midbass slam that was not as prevalent in the 707's. I didn't hear much difference going up the FR, but after the midbass hump the 707's had some deep, smooth bass not found in the 703's. Given the choice between the two, I'd probably take the 703's due only to the size of my room. I refuse to get either though since I simply do not have the gear (nor the ears at this point) to justify purchasing these fine speakers.

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    Default 707's at rmaf in denver

    Quote Originally Posted by JimAckley View Post
    I don't think I mentioned it in my review, but I had the 707s in my possession for 10+ days, and literally had them on day and night. Not to mention this particular set had been played at Russman's house prior to me getting them, and IIRC, they were also played quite a bit at Lonestar Audiofest, so by the time I had written my review they easily had 300-400 hours on them. The 703s, on the other hand, only had 40 hours of play time, and whooped the broken-in 707s.

    I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that "we" don't know or agree that higher power means better performance. Higher power means more headroom and higher output capabilities. I've heard 50W RMS-per-channel amplifiers that sound 100x better than 1kW RMS-per-channel amplifiers. Remember, "quality, not quantity". If you're working with a small room and your speakers are close, 200w would be more than enough to reach your target SPL levels. If you're working with a larger room such as a living room, or a dedicated home theater, I would shoot for a high-current amplifier that will put out around 400w RMS-per-channel. I typically have my volume on my receiver at around -18.5dB, so I'm not even closer to maxing it out when doing my listening sessions. Not to mention, my receiver is a $2200 Pioneer SC-37, and not a cheap $150 Sony or Yamaha. It cleanly drove 7 LSi-series speakers without breaking a sweat when I had my 7.1 setup. But that doesn't even matter since I used two Operetta AV-AP2140P-SO amplifiers to drive them, and split the channels between the high and low inputs of the speaker.

    I'm pretty sure I noted all of the above in one way or another in my review. Take some time and read it again, as well as the other reviews. Since you're new to the forums, take some time and dig around. There's quite a bit to learn about each of the lines that you'll only get here and not from Polk's Customer Service. And of course Polk is going to assure you that the 707s will perform just as well and as smooth as the 703s. What company would really say, "Yeah... actually our $4000 towers are so-so, and our much-cheaper $1500 bookshelves are actually a lot better!" Since I had pre-production models, they might have changed up the crossovers to fix the response issues for the final release. I'm hoping that's gonna be the case.

    Furthermore, I would be very hesitant to try and pass 1kW RMS through the 707s. They're power hungry, but not THAT power hungry. I don't see them taking the same beating as my 15s without a smoke show. The motor structure of the 707's 6x9s really aren't very big. Maybe that was just the case for the pre-production models I had, but from what I saw, 1kW would've blown them. The 707s I had used pretty much the same motor for the 6.5" midbass and the 6x9s. The 6x9s' motors were altered to allow for more excursion, but there's almost no way you're gonna pass that much power through them over extended periods without either mechanical or thermal failure. They might be able to handle peaks upwards of 1kW, but continuous is a whole other deal.

    Obviously the 707s are going to have more crossover components, since they have more drivers, but having more crossover components doesn't make a difference in how quickly it's gonna break-in. They are all going to burn in at the same time, and at the same rate. Having them on separate boards doesn't make a difference either. It simply allows more space for the components, plus it cuts down on wiring to have the woofers' XO right behind the woofers, and the mid/tweeter XO up by the mid and tweeter. The towers I'm building right now have separate boards for the crossovers because it's simpler that way.



    PM me your email. Since I had pre-production models, I'm not gonna post them.
    Jim and Dskip.
    I spoke at great length this morning with the regional Polk wholesale Manager who was part of the team at RMAF
    and was informed the 707's were the speakers used there with the Bel Canto Ref500M's and the Bel Canto DAC with
    a Mac stream system and the midrange performance was awesome. The upper crossover board in the 707 is the exact twin board used in the 703. He warned me that If anyone plan's to buy the 707's that they must be set up in
    a large room, 25 feet or longer. If there in a smaller space and not in a long rectangular room that you will have to
    deal with a severe standing wave problem that will interfere with the mid-range performance since the speaker does not roll off until you get down to 20 Hz...whew! that's low..Jim, your correct on the amplifier power limit. He informed me not to use amps more than 500 watts rms. The midnite Mahogany finish is out of stock and is outselling the Cherry finish and will not be available until mid-December. Glen

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    Well, i think it would be nice to hear what Russman says about the 2 speakers,, And post his review, hes a pretty good go to guy on these matters,
    Not an Audiophile, just a dude who loves music, and decent gear to hear it with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    Jim and Dskip.
    I spoke at great length this morning with the regional Polk wholesale Manager who was part of the team at RMAF
    and was informed the 707's were the speakers used there with the Bel Canto Ref500M's and the Bel Canto DAC with
    a Mac stream system and the midrange performance was awesome. The upper crossover board in the 707 is the exact twin board used in the 703. He warned me that If anyone plan's to buy the 707's that they must be set up in
    a large room, 25 feet or longer. If there in a smaller space and not in a long rectangular room that you will have to
    deal with a severe standing wave problem that will interfere with the mid-range performance since the speaker does not roll off until you get down to 20 Hz...whew! that's low..Jim, your correct on the amplifier power limit. He informed me not to use amps more than 500 watts rms. The midnite Mahogany finish is out of stock and is outselling the Cherry finish and will not be available until mid-December. Glen
    I never said the midrange was flawed. The 703's have much more slam to them than the 707's do, even though the 707's go lower. They are both stellar speakers and you can't go wrong with either one.

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    Thanks for the honest review Jim. BTW, beautiful listening room!
    ~Matt
    -----------------My System------------------
    Front L/R: Definitive BP10Bs
    Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As
    Preamp: B&K Reference 20
    CD: Jolida JD100a
    L/R Amp: Carver TFM-24
    Turntable: Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
    TV: Sony 52" XBR9

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    I never said the midrange was flawed. The 703's have much more slam to them than the 707's do, even though the 707's go lower. They are both stellar speakers and you can't go wrong with either one.
    DSkip, It wasn't my impression the midrange was flawed. Jim Ackley used the Pioneer SC-37 Receiver which has the
    B&O Ice Amps. 140 watts a channel is not enough for the 707's. Good example. In the July issue of Stereophile was
    reviewed and tested the limited edition Sony SS-AR1 speakers. The reviewer started off with a McIntosh 300 watt per channel amp and the speaker performance was disappointing. He switched to the Bel Canto Ref1000M's at 500
    watts per channel and the speakers came to life. The midrange, soundstage and bass performance came to a higher level. The B&O amps must be modded out with larger power supplies which Pioneer has not done. Class D amps from Nuforce(their Reference 18's and the Bel Canto's have added large capacitor banks to meet with the high
    slew rate/power demand the amps require. Jim mentioned some 50 watt per channel amps are outstanding. There's
    a reason for this. The 50 watt Class "A" amps from Luxman, Accuphase and others that weigh over a 100 lbs. have large power banks of capacitors typically of 100,000 microfarads of storage or more, resulting in very large power reserves. Without large power reserves driving a large full range speaker regardless of the RMS @ 8ohms, will result
    in poor performance. With the 707'S your dealing with a four way design, two crossover boards that divide at four points and five driver's. Thats a lot of business going on. Believe me, you hook up an amp at 200 watts rms or more with very large power reserve's to the 707's and it will sound like a different speaker. Polk had in mind with the new LSim series is to design a true high end speaker that competes on the same level as Wilson, B&W and KEF.
    With ultimate high end speakers you shoud not compromise your electronic's since these types of designs such as the new Polks and other brands will vary extremely in sound quality and are much more critical and sensitive to the electronic's used. Glen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    Believe me, you hook up an amp at 200 watts rms or more with very large power reserve's to the 707's and it will sound like a different speaker. Polk had in mind with the new LSim series is to design a true high end speaker that competes on the same level as Wilson, B&W and KEF.
    With ultimate high end speakers you shoud not compromise your electronic's since these types of designs such as the new Polks and other brands will vary extremely in sound quality and are much more critical and sensitive to the electronic's used. Glen
    This hasn't been argued at all and has actually been stated several times by those who have experience with them. I personally intend to stay away from these speakers b/c I know I can't give them the "support" they need to shine right now. Please keep in mind that even though this review is based off the SC-37, these have been heard on different (and MUCH nicer) 2 channel gear. They are very similar speakers, but the 707 isn't just a 703 w/ 2 subs. The cabinet design for the top is different than the 703. For one, the 707's top chamber is sealed whereas the 703 is ported. The slam of the 703 just isn't there in the 707, for better or for worse.

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    Default LSiM 707

    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    This hasn't been argued at all and has actually been stated several times by those who have experience with them. I personally intend to stay away from these speakers b/c I know I can't give them the "support" they need to shine right now. Please keep in mind that even though this review is based off the SC-37, these have been heard on different (and MUCH nicer) 2 channel gear. They are very similar speakers, but the 707 isn't just a 703 w/ 2 subs. The cabinet design for the top is different than the 703. For one, the 707's top chamber is sealed whereas the 703 is ported. The slam of the 703 just isn't there in the 707, for better or for worse.
    Mmm..the LSiM series have only been out and in circulation for five week's. I mentioned to two service techs at
    Polk and the regional Polk sales Manager in my State regarding the opinions in this forum and they have listened to
    the 703's and 707's and they stated the midrange performance and "slam" between the two model's are identical and the 707's should have even greater slam since there is a mid-bass driver. In early 2006 I purchased the LSi 9's
    and hooked them up to a 200 watt per channel Parasound amp. The performance from the 9's was disappointing. I purchased the Nuforce Reference 9 MK.2 monoblocks and hooked them up and was blown away. The difference was
    day and night. The Parasound was slow, less dynamic and less dimensional. I sold the Parasound. The only way of course to evaluate is to listen and experiment yourself. I will be buying the 707's soon but have to wait since the
    midnight Mahogany finish is sold out and will not be back in stock until mid December. I will be hooking them up to
    a pair of Bel Canto Reference 1000M's and a Accuphase C-2810 Preamp and look forward to sharing the results in this thread. If any member's are on a budget and are planning on upgrading to separate's, I would highly reccomend
    the new Onkyo P-3000R Preamp and the Emotiva XPA-2 amplifier which puts out 300 watts per channel, weighs 70
    lbs. and has a large bank of capacitor's. Both pieces will run you $ 2700.00 and will not break the bank. You can also buy the Onkyo on the net at a lower price. This would be the best high end value on the market and would be
    an ideal match for the 707's. Glen

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    Nice review!
    Linn AV5140 fronts
    Linn AV5120 Center
    Linn AV5140 Rears
    M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
    Odyssey Mono-Blocs
    SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D

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    Before I go any further, this review was based on the Operettas, not my SC-37. It was written on the last evening of the week and a half period which I had them, while I listened to them in my living room.

    I did listen to them on my SC-37, but that was only for the first couple of days.

    1st off, why would Polk design a speaker with such ridiculous room requirements? How many people do you know that really have a 25' long room they can spare as a listening room, or even as a living room? Every single house I've been to with a dedicated room has been much smaller than 25' long. That's piss poor design if that's really the case. People can find other towers from other manufacturers that perform excellently in smaller spaces, and Polk won't generate sales as a result, at least not of the 707s. Also, you can kill standing waves with room treatments, so for the rep to say you have to have a 25' to avoid them is pretty dumb IMO. FWIW, the back of my living room opens up to my dining room, so I had about 33' of depth to work with, and they still didn't sound right.

    Secondly, you shouldn't need an assload of power to make them magically come to life, just something very high quality. If you've got both of those qualities in a single package, then more power to ya, no pun intended. If a speaker only sounds good at high volumes, it's junk. A speaker needs to be able to perform well at lower volumes, and thus lower power levels, to get my support. While the Operettas aren't the absolute cream of the crop so to speak, they're still fabulous amplifiers, and I drove them pretty good but never tried to take them to power levels they're not capable of. I could understand if I was driving these with the Yamaha I used to have, but if they still aren't up to par in a large living room on two amplifiers in a quasi-biamped setup, then I'm not sold.

    And of course every single rep you talk to at Polk is going to say they're both going to have tons of slam and the same smoothness. I'm not saying they're all liars, as I've gotten some rock solid advice and support from them in the past, but what employee wouldn't boast about their brand new flagship models? I'm giving you 100% unbiased feedback here. I don't get paid by Polk, so I don't have to worry where my next paycheck is coming from if I come out and say somethings not great. Maybe a few people frown at me, but that's about it.

    The part that really cracks me up is that you haven't even heard these and you wanna argue about the differences in how they sound vs the 703s...

    If you're hell bent on spending $4k, buy some 703s for $1500, then spend the other $2500 on a pair of subwoofers and an SMS-1. You won't need to buy any 500wpc amplifiers or knock down walls to enjoy them. I'd pick 703s and my PSW1000 over a set of 707s by themselves any day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    Polk had in mind with the new LSim series is to design a true high end speaker that competes on the same level as Wilson, B&W and KEF.
    The least expensive Wilson is the Sophia at $17K. It would be a cool if the new Polks are in that league.

    If I am correctly reading these comments it appears the issue with the 707 is the bass. I wonder if the oval speakers are an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimAckley View Post
    Before I go any further, this review was based on the Operettas, not my SC-37. It was written on the last evening of the week and a half period which I had them, while I listened to them in my living room.

    I did listen to them on my SC-37, but that was only for the first couple of days.

    1st off, why would Polk design a speaker with such ridiculous room requirements? How many people do you know that really have a 25' long room they can spare as a listening room, or even as a living room? Every single house I've been to with a dedicated room has been much smaller than 25' long. That's piss poor design if that's really the case. People can find other towers from other manufacturers that perform excellently in smaller spaces, and Polk won't generate sales as a result, at least not of the 707s. Also, you can kill standing waves with room treatments, so for the rep to say you have to have a 25' to avoid them is pretty dumb IMO. FWIW, the back of my living room opens up to my dining room, so I had about 33' of depth to work with, and they still didn't sound right.

    Secondly, you shouldn't need an assload of power to make them magically come to life, just something very high quality. If you've got both of those qualities in a single package, then more power to ya, no pun intended. If a speaker only sounds good at high volumes, it's junk. A speaker needs to be able to perform well at lower volumes, and thus lower power levels, to get my support. While the Operettas aren't the absolute cream of the crop so to speak, they're still fabulous amplifiers, and I drove them pretty good but never tried to take them to power levels they're not capable of. I could understand if I was driving these with the Yamaha I used to have, but if they still aren't up to par in a large living room on two amplifiers in a quasi-biamped setup, then I'm not sold.

    And of course every single rep you talk to at Polk is going to say they're both going to have tons of slam and the same smoothness. I'm not saying they're all liars, as I've gotten some rock solid advice and support from them in the past, but what employee wouldn't boast about their brand new flagship models? I'm giving you 100% unbiased feedback here. I don't get paid by Polk, so I don't have to worry where my next paycheck is coming from if I come out and say somethings not great. Maybe a few people frown at me, but that's about it.

    The part that really cracks me up is that you haven't even heard these and you wanna argue about the differences in how they sound vs the 703s...

    If you're hell bent on spending $4k, buy some 703s for $1500, then spend the other $2500 on a pair of subwoofers and an SMS-1. You won't need to buy any 500wpc amplifiers or knock down walls to enjoy them. I'd pick 703s and my PSW1000 over a set of 707s by themselves any day.
    I couldn't agree with you more concerning the last part of your post. I am as happy or make that happier with the performance of my 703s paired with an REL-R205 sub as I was when I was running my SDA-1Cs, Martin Logan Sequel IIs, or any of my DCM Timeframe towers. Of course my listening room is much smaller now, so that should be noted. The 703s paired with a good sub are an outstanding combination for two channel listening.

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    No one likes their baby called ugly, but I've owned a couple LM3886 based amps and I wouldn't consider any of them high current. They sound very nice, but don't have the dampening for a full range speaker.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Jim sir
    Just wondering if you got my PM
    For email and the internal shots.
    No hurries just wondering.

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    Default Polk LSiM 707

    Quote Originally Posted by JimAckley View Post
    Before I go any further, this review was based on the Operettas, not my SC-37. It was written on the last evening of the week and a half period which I had them, while I listened to them in my living room.

    I did listen to them on my SC-37, but that was only for the first couple of days.

    1st off, why would Polk design a speaker with such ridiculous room requirements? How many people do you know that really have a 25' long room they can spare as a listening room, or even as a living room? Every single house I've been to with a dedicated room has been much smaller than 25' long. That's piss poor design if that's really the case. People can find other towers from other manufacturers that perform excellently in smaller spaces, and Polk won't generate sales as a result, at least not of the 707s. Also, you can kill standing waves with room treatments, so for the rep to say you have to have a 25' to avoid them is pretty dumb IMO. FWIW, the back of my living room opens up to my dining room, so I had about 33' of depth to work with, and they still didn't sound right.

    Secondly, you shouldn't need an assload of power to make them magically come to life, just something very high quality. If you've got both of those qualities in a single package, then more power to ya, no pun intended. If a speaker only sounds good at high volumes, it's junk. A speaker needs to be able to perform well at lower volumes, and thus lower power levels, to get my support. While the Operettas aren't the absolute cream of the crop so to speak, they're still fabulous amplifiers, and I drove them pretty good but never tried to take them to power levels they're not capable of. I could understand if I was driving these with the Yamaha I used to have, but if they still aren't up to par in a large living room on two amplifiers in a quasi-biamped setup, then I'm not sold.

    And of course every single rep you talk to at Polk is going to say they're both going to have tons of slam and the same smoothness. I'm not saying they're all liars, as I've gotten some rock solid advice and support from them in the past, but what employee wouldn't boast about their brand new flagship models? I'm giving you 100% unbiased feedback here. I don't get paid by Polk, so I don't have to worry where my next paycheck is coming from if I come out and say somethings not great. Maybe a few people frown at me, but that's about it.

    The part that really cracks me up is that you haven't even heard these and you wanna argue about the differences in how they sound vs the 703s...

    If you're hell bent on spending $4k, buy some 703s for $1500, then spend the other $2500 on a pair of subwoofers and an SMS-1. You won't need to buy any 500wpc amplifiers or knock down walls to enjoy them. I'd pick 703s and my PSW1000 over a set of 707s by themselves any day.
    My apologies Jim for missing your note on the Operetta's..I'm in my sixties with poor health and up until a week ago I was laid up for five weeks with a bad illness that I'm just now recovering from, and have been out of focus for some time. Regarding the esential importance of why a 20 to 25 foot room is mandatory for both a large full range speaker or an active subwoofer I can explain technically since I studied acoustical phyisics years ago, and the info
    I'll share here will benefit the member's on this forum and threads. When you look at the wave patterns of the different frequency bands on the screen of an ocilliscope, the patterns are more narrow and vertical in the upper mids and high frequency bands. Once you start down the scale in the 300Hz territory, the sine wave widens and the pattern is more horizontal. The wider the pattern, the greater the travel length of the sound wave coming from
    a woofer in a room. Once you start dropping below 200Hz the travel length of the wave is at least 18 feet and at lower bands 20 feet and beyond. If the room is not long enough, you have a severe standing wave problem, where the outgoing low wave hits a wall and travels back to the speaker and collides with the outgoing wave from the woofer. The waves are then in a still standing position, that can clash with other frequency waves, resulting in poor
    sound which can also travel back into the cabinet causing audible distortions and cabinet resonance. This is why large full range speakers sound like crap at shows and in retail stores if the room is square and not rectangular or the travel distance is to short and returns to early from the opposite wall. All the tube traps and wall sound panels
    will not correct the problem. The most ideal room size for a large speaker is 9 feet high by 18 feet wide by 25 feet long. If the room is much smaller, do not use a full range floor standing speaker and stick to the bookshelf size.
    Glen

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