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Thread: LSiM 707 Review

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    My apologies Jim for missing your note on the Operetta's..I'm in my sixties with poor health and up until a week ago I was laid up for five weeks with a bad illness that I'm just now recovering from, and have been out of focus for some time. Regarding the esential importance of why a 20 to 25 foot room is mandatory for both a large full range speaker or an active subwoofer I can explain technically since I studied acoustical phyisics years ago, and the info
    I'll share here will benefit the member's on this forum and threads. When you look at the wave patterns of the different frequency bands on the screen of an ocilliscope, the patterns are more narrow and vertical in the upper mids and high frequency bands. Once you start down the scale in the 300Hz territory, the sine wave widens and the pattern is more horizontal. The wider the pattern, the greater the travel length of the sound wave coming from
    a woofer in a room. Once you start dropping below 200Hz the travel length of the wave is at least 18 feet and at lower bands 20 feet and beyond. If the room is not long enough, you have a severe standing wave problem, where the outgoing low wave hits a wall and travels back to the speaker and collides with the outgoing wave from the woofer. The waves are then in a still standing position, that can clash with other frequency waves, resulting in poor
    sound which can also travel back into the cabinet causing audible distortions and cabinet resonance. This is why large full range speakers sound like crap at shows and in retail stores if the room is square and not rectangular or the travel distance is to short and returns to early from the opposite wall. All the tube traps and wall sound panels
    will not correct the problem. The most ideal room size for a large speaker is 9 feet high by 18 feet wide by 25 feet long. If the room is much smaller, do not use a full range floor standing speaker and stick to the bookshelf size.
    Glen
    WoW,, being most folks dont have that ideal room size, Your basically saying there not getting as much out of there Towers,,, Must be the reason they say bookies image better than towers, in medium size rooms,, and have better, and tighter Mids, However with a bookshelf, you get smaller soundstage, and less bass, Im baseing this on not useing a sub, which i believe is a band aid, in 2 channel applications,
    Not an Audiophile, just a dude who loves music, and decent gear to hear it with.

  2. #32

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    Default POLK LSiM 707

    Quote Originally Posted by thesurfer View Post
    WoW,, being most folks dont have that ideal room size, Your basically saying there not getting as much out of there Towers,,, Must be the reason they say bookies image better than towers, in medium size rooms,, and have better, and tighter Mids, However with a bookshelf, you get smaller soundstage, and less bass, Im baseing this on not useing a sub, which i believe is a band aid, in 2 channel applications,
    Exactly..even though most bookshelfs will go down to 45 Hz, they have a much smaller footprint and the travel length of the lower frequencies will be much shorter since the driver cones are much smaller and the piston motion
    is shorter in a smaller cabinet since there is not enough internal air space in the woofer chamber to move large volumes of air that a larger full range speaker can accomplish. Glen

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnote View Post
    Exactly..even though most bookshelfs will go down to 45 Hz, they have a much smaller footprint and the travel length of the lower frequencies will be much shorter since the driver cones are much smaller and the piston motion
    is shorter in a smaller cabinet since there is not enough internal air space in the woofer chamber to move large volumes of air that a larger full range speaker can accomplish. Glen
    Well, i had a thread called Bookies or Towers, most prefered towers, i prefer some decent bookshelf speakers, to me smaller drivers that can play loud, with no distortion, seem to have the edge in imageing, and tightness, seem to be faster as well, I feel this to be true, as polk used there smaller drivers in there LSI, bookies, and alot of folks here love em, Of course alot of it comes down to room size, and what one wants to accomplish, both my 2 channel rigs are in medium sized rooms, so big towers would just be overkill, ive tried it,
    Not an Audiophile, just a dude who loves music, and decent gear to hear it with.

  4. #34

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    I own both pairs of speakers and don't believe there's that much wrong in either design. I have no idea what prompted Jim's awful experience but perhaps there's more time needed to get a fuller opinion. The Monitor is my favorite over the floorstander but that's no surprise since that's my favorite type of loudspeaker anyways. It has nothing to do with the actual speaker.

  5. #35

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    How does a site like this sell these so cheap?

    http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...70047f7834a0d0

    I'm toying with buying a full 9 speaker set for my living room HT.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post
    How does a site like this sell these so cheap?
    Gray market, no factory warranty.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  7. #37

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    Interesting, but are they real polks
    Or a fake knock off?

    Esr

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Gray market, no factory warranty.
    Sent a email and asked about warrenty.

  9. #39

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    It's right on their site, http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...0d0&info_id=12

    NO factory warranty.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    It's right on their site, http://www.audiophileliquidator.net/...0d0&info_id=12

    NO factory warranty.
    I would never buy anything online without a warranty.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    I would never buy anything online without a warranty.
    What's the difference, people buy used all the time off Craigslist, eBay and Audiogon without warranties. I don't see a difference here, and you're getting a third off plus it's new. I've owned dozens of new and used polks and never needed a warranty.

  12. #42

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    True. But are they real polks or a cheap imitator?
    I could have got my light meter from some Chinese imitator, lookedike sekonic, said sekonic but wasn't skonic.

    Esr

  13. #43

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    i think if they were going to make and sell knockoffs they would pick on higher end manufacturers.
    Main system
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    What's the difference, people buy used all the time off Craigslist, eBay and Audiogon without warranties. I don't see a difference here, and you're getting a third off plus it's new. I've owned dozens of new and used polks and never needed a warranty.
    I would buy used I have no problem , I wouldn't buy anything new without a warranty. I also support Authorized dealers who took the time to take the correct steps in earning the right to sell the given products.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    What's the difference, people buy used all the time off Craigslist, eBay and Audiogon without warranties. I don't see a difference here, and you're getting a third off plus it's new. I've owned dozens of new and used polks and never needed a warranty.
    Glad to see you're a team player.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  16. #46

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    that is a valid point.

    but the knockoffers will do anything man, uber expensive brands or not.

    its amazing what little fingers can create in a sweat shop.

    ESR
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)

    More to come

  17. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    What's the difference, people buy used all the time off Craigslist, eBay and Audiogon without warranties. I don't see a difference here, and you're getting a third off plus it's new. I've owned dozens of new and used polks and never needed a warranty.
    There is a BIG difference though with buying something used and buying something *claimed* to be new from a non-authorized retailer.

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Glad to see you're a team player.
    It has nothing to do with being a team player. It's about saving money.

  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    It has nothing to do with being a team player. It's about saving money.
    Do you buy hot goods too?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  20. #50

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    oooooooo, thats a character in conflict!!

    be a honest person and pay full price and support everything rightfully or the shady dealer down the street undercutting every one in the process.

    i see a story in the making here. lulz

    esr
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)

    More to come

  21. #51

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    oy... I just logged in for the 1st time in a while. I love drama :)
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  22. #52

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    To testdrive such speakers the rest of the gear - ALL OF IT !!!! I repeat, all of it down to power cables on your SACD player which you didn't use for testing( WHAT ???) should be of the highest quality. You should also make sure that your powerline is free from any interference caused by other equipment, like computers for instance. Ideally, you need to have two separate power lines -one for analogue equipment, one for digital... and , of course, nothing else can run off them. The cabling is poor as well, you should have tried at least Audioquest Rocket 88... anything lower than that would not let the speakers reveal their beauty. The use of the receiver really shocked me... Like I said, every component has to be of the highest quality because no matter how good the speakers are you always hear the weakest link in your system. There had to be separates all the way, of Krell or similar quality,not some " top off the line " receiver. Receivers are not made for music, period. If you cannot hear a difference between a receiver and good quality dedicated stereo setup then you shouldn't review speakers.
    the fact that you used lossless files doesn't mean anything, there's so much really bad quality stuff in lossless formats out there that only 1-3 % can actually be used for testing . There are plenty of high quality special testing CDs ( high - res stereo or SACD format ) that should have been used. Plus, you used the DACs of your receiver... I mean, come on !
    I don't want to sound mean , but this review is totally misleading and does more harm than good, simply because you couldn't possibly make these speakers sound the way they were meant to sound and your review affects people's decisions and choices.

  23. #53

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    So what you are saying is people with under $50,000 systems need not apply. i find that a little snobbish. that's why you list the equipment you are using so a reader can put your results in context.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subdusted View Post
    To testdrive such speakers the rest of the gear - ALL OF IT !!!! I repeat, all of it down to power cables on your SACD player which you didn't use for testing( WHAT ???) should be of the highest quality. You should also make sure that your powerline is free from any interference caused by other equipment, like computers for instance. Ideally, you need to have two separate power lines -one for analogue equipment, one for digital... and , of course, nothing else can run off them. The cabling is poor as well, you should have tried at least Audioquest Rocket 88... anything lower than that would not let the speakers reveal their beauty. The use of the receiver really shocked me... Like I said, every component has to be of the highest quality because no matter how good the speakers are you always hear the weakest link in your system. There had to be separates all the way, of Krell or similar quality,not some " top off the line " receiver. Receivers are not made for music, period. If you cannot hear a difference between a receiver and good quality dedicated stereo setup then you shouldn't review speakers.
    the fact that you used lossless files doesn't mean anything, there's so much really bad quality stuff in lossless formats out there that only 1-3 % can actually be used for testing . There are plenty of high quality special testing CDs ( high - res stereo or SACD format ) that should have been used. Plus, you used the DACs of your receiver... I mean, come on !
    I don't want to sound mean , but this review is totally misleading and does more harm than good, simply because you couldn't possibly make these speakers sound the way they were meant to sound and your review affects people's decisions and choices.
    You sound like you got a small clue but your way off base my man. Where your going wrong here is synergy. These speakers are not super high end and one who is going to purchase them most likely will not be driving them with Krell or equal quality. Also saying you can't use a receiver for music is total bull**** , many people including myself use receivers andget very pleasing results doing so. Just so you know I blew away a room full of Audiophiles with a SC-68 and a pair of Magnepan 1.7's wired with Cardas Crosslinks , Audioquest , Wattbox surge and 24/192 files from a Mac Mini. No one could believe that sound quality we got from a audio video receiver , most thought we where running some high end separates.
    You also sound like you learned some things but need much polishing , your not on the wrong path but you are very misguided.

    I fully respect this review and I have been doing reviews for well over 15 years.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  25. #55

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    My point is, again, that you always hear the weakest link in the system. And in that particular setup there were too many of them. And they did not allow to hear the potential these speakers have. With better equipment you can hear how they actually CAN sound, what they are capable of.
    When I was choosing my speaker wire, a buddy of mine , who is a dealer, hauled a huge box of them. He refused to tell me the names and/or prices, instead he told me to just listen to them, compare...and chose the one that sounds best in my system. Among all that was the incredible quality hand-made silver cable, I mean, the wire inside was made of pure silver, I saw the pictures and videos of the process , that wire was put in a whole tube with some rope that went along the wire slightly twining around it , because the best insulation is air... anyway, there were cables that made the system sound too harsh ( and one of them turned out to cost 1500 ) or muddy...or not having enough dynamics... after 4 hours of listening I picked two, and listened to them for a couple of weeks. The ones I picked were AQ Rocket 88 and Supra Ply 3. They were almost identical in sound. I ended up getting the Supra as it was cheaper. So... the speaker wire alone made such a difference, from totally uncomfortable to the sound I was absolutely happy with.
    Right now I am auditioning power cables for my Oppo 95 - I have Offlex, TTAF, Silentwire and a few more. With power cables it's a lot more complicated because they require a lot more break-in time, I mean, they have to play in a particular system for at least 100 hours. Silver power cables require 400 hrs, and during that period of time the sound keeps changing, it gets better, then worse, then again better..and it goes on.

    I have LSi15s and a balanced ( XLR ) stereo setup. When I tried to drive LSi15s off the reciever ( Integra 70.1 ) the sound was sluggish...although Integra provides 160 watts at 6 Ohms per channel, if not more.. When I used preouts on the receiver and hooked them to my amplifier , only then they really started to sound. Still, when I use my pre-amp / power amp combo ( Thule Audio 250 PR / Thule Audio 350 PA - that's 350 watts of class A amplification ), the sound in stereo is much better than if it's a reciever / power amp. The gear is decent but it's not the greatest and right now I am working on my room acoustics to get the best out of it. Yet, if I was auditioning these speakers, I could only say how they sounded with this particular set up in this particular room... not how they sound in general, because I simply would not know that. So, calling this an LSiM 707 review means that these speakers are evaluated, but with so many weak points in that setup this cannot be a fair evaluation.

  26. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    You sound like you got a small clue but your way off base my man. Where your going wrong here is synergy. These speakers are not super high end and one who is going to purchase them most likely will not be driving them with Krell or equal quality. Also saying you can't use a receiver for music is total bull**** , many people including myself use receivers andget very pleasing results doing so. Just so you know I blew away a room full of Audiophiles with a SC-68 and a pair of Magnepan 1.7's wired with Cardas Crosslinks , Audioquest , Wattbox surge and 24/192 files from a Mac Mini. No one could believe that sound quality we got from a audio video receiver , most thought we where running some high end separates.
    You also sound like you learned some things but need much polishing , your not on the wrong path but you are very misguided.

    I fully respect this review and I have been doing reviews for well over 15 years.
    I did not hear that setup so I cannot be objective... but Magnepans have low sensitivity ( 86 I believe), and a Pioneer receiver cannot possibly provide the control a separate amplifier in the same price range can, or even better - monoblocks. And control is what really matters. But it's just theory... It very well may be that you have really good room acoustics and a happy marriage of your components ( which is very hard to achieve ) and when they work together in that particular room - they shine, moreover, they outshine the separates that are considerably more expensive but incompatible and work in worse acoustic situations, however, I have no doubts that if your Pioneer was replaced with a suitable amp in the same price range, the sound would improve dramatically.

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    you cannot have an "all-in-one" thing perform just as good as a device that was designed for just one particular purpose. Would you rather have your heart operated on by a heart surgeon or by a regular family doctor ? an SUV is another "all-in-one" but it is not as fast and maneuverable as a car in the same price range and it doesn't have the hauling power and off-road abilities of a truck...just like everywhere else - we call someone a "professional" only if he is skillful , experienced and knowledgeable in his particular field , because only then he will be able to do the job well. Same applies to receivers, they are another "all-in-one" product...That does everything but cannot possiblycompete with separates. In decent amplifiers toroidal transformers weigh more than whole receivers... just look at Emotiva lines, which are pretty inexpensive. I have an Integra 70.1 ( Onkyo 3007 ), which is considered a top receiver, but a lot cheaper integrated Arcam Delta 290 beat it effortlessly in stereo. That's why I have Integra for HT only.

  28. #58

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    You're not really preaching anything the majority of us here would argue, except for the legitimacy of this review. He discloses what he uses, so yes, this is a legitimate review. In your case, you were able to pick out what you didn't like about it and it does no good for you. If I'm looking to buy these and run them off a Pioneer receiver, does this review not help me?

    BTW, I've heard the 707's on several different setups and pretty much agree with what Jim's thoughts are about the speakers.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Well shoot man, let me PM you my address and you can buy all of that for me to use in my future reviews, that way I can foot the bill for all my other hobbies, bills, trips, etc., and still write reviews that will satisfy you.

    Now, to throw the Pioneer Elite SC-37 with all other "all-in-one" receivers is a gross mistake. It's by no means "separates", but it's miles ahead of nearly every receiver out there. I don't think I've seen someone underrate it so severely.

    Oh, and you obviously haven't driven a 2004-2006 Yukon XL 2500 SLT Autoride with a 496 and 4.11 differential. It does everything that you just claimed an SUV can't do well.
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    Really ? so, speed and maneuverability wise it can successfully compete with cars in it's price range, let's say, a Corvette? As for it's hauling abilities, have you ever seen anyone who does hauling for a living, use it as their truck?

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