Onkyo 809 vs 3008

[matchan]

In trying to figure out which receiver to get,

I cant seem to understand why the 3008 costs $500 bucks more than the 809.

The only plus points I see are Audyssey MultiEQ XT32(3008) vs MultiEQ XT (809).

The specs on the 3008 say "high current".

Many folks say that they are on two completely different levels. What am I missing ?

[cnh]

Amplifier sections and power! The two units are significantly different in weight and amp architecture....look at the specs on that and remember that the wattage for the 809 is 'exaggerated' by Onkyo....it is nowhere near what the 3008 is capable of. There are probably also other video features and processing chips that are superior on the 3008 that are certainly worth an extra 500.

The 809 is about 40 lbs. The 3008 is over 55 lbs. Guess where that extra weight is distributed?

Read the Onkyo specifications more carefully! And if you have the money the TX-SR3008 is a no brainer.

But if you plan to add an external 5 channel power amp. The 809 has all the features you need!

cnh

[EndersShadow]

3008 is a 9.2 setup, 809 is a 7.2 setup. Without doing much more research than I want to that is another difference.

Also XT32 v. XT is a BIG DEAL! XT32 has 100 times more filters than XT for both all your main speakers (Audyssey calls them Satellites) and your sub.

[matchan]

Here is my dilema

809 + XPA 5 = $1500
3008 = $1300

I dont want to get the 3008 and then buy another amp

I plan to get the Rti a7 fronts/ cis a6 center also

[matchan]

Other than the 5 watt/channel and 5% THD, power is identical. What am I missing ?

809
Front L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Center 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround Back L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,

2 channels driven, FTC)

Dynamic Power 300 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
250 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
150 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)




3008

Power Output -

Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Center 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.05%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround Back L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Front High/ Wide 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) 0.05% (Rated power)

[cnh]

Then I'd go with the 809 and the amp. That'll do you fine and will have more ooomph than the 3008. You'll need the power for your fronts!

Those stats are bogus because they don't represent real world ALL-Channels driven tests.

When you run the 809 at all channels you don't get 135 per channel. You're lucky if you get 50 or so!

Whereas the 3008 will put out specs very close to 140 W per channel for 7.1! That's the reason it weighs 15 pounds more!!

You can't always 'trust' manufacturers specs. Notice above that the specs are ALL for 2 channels driven only?

Good Luck!

cnh

[cnh]

Here are some bench tests of how older model AVRs have performed in power tests. 2 channel vs. 7.1.

Onkyo 807 (Last Year's model but the 808 appears to have the same amp rating)
2 Channel: 8 ohm 143 watts/ 4 ohm 240.2 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 29.9 watts

Marantz 6004
2 Channel:8 ohm 111 watts/ 4 ohm 160 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 70.8 watts

Pioneer SC-27 (SC-25 uses the same ICE amps)
2 Channel:8 ohm 151 watts/ 4 ohm 224 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 107.4 watts

A bit surprising no?

The 3008 is not as subject to this kind of reduction in power!

cnh

[pdxfj]

Personally I'd go with the 3008 just for Audyssey XT32 and the ability to EQ two independent subs. Then save my pennies for an amp down the road. That is if you felt the need for it.

[cnh]

Good point. But I find Audyssey overrated--recently I purchased a cheap RatShack SPL meter and it really upped the 'tweaking' ante.

cnh

[EndersShadow]

Good point. But I find Audyssey overrated

Yup, but for "set and forget" crowd it helps.

Also OP look at Accessories4less for a refurb on either of those Onkyo's. You might be able to get the 3008 at enough of a discount that you can get a Emo 3 channel amp and still be at a decent price. Accessories4less sells manufacture refurbs which means they have a manufacture warranty of 1 year. Its I think 3 years brand new, but you see a deep discount in the price.

Personally going with a 5 channel amp is IMHO not worth it. Take care of your front 3, and the surrounds run off the AVR. They dont need nearly as much power as your L/R/C so you would be fine like that.

I got a 5 channel amp simply because it was a steal, but if I was buying new, I would get a 3 channel over 5 anyday.

[EndersShadow]

Here is my dilema

809 + XPA 5 = $1500
3008 = $1300

I dont want to get the 3008 and then buy another amp

I plan to get the Rti a7 fronts/ cis a6 center also

Solution:

3008 @ Accessories4less (1100) + used amp:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....V-5000-5-chann

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....nnel-Power-amp

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-channels-pric

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-channels-pric

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....5-Channel-Ampl

[matchan]

Here are some bench tests of how older model AVRs have performed in power tests. 2 channel vs. 7.1.

Onkyo 807 (Last Year's model but the 808 appears to have the same amp rating)
2 Channel: 8 ohm 143 watts/ 4 ohm 240.2 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 29.9 watts

Marantz 6004
2 Channel:8 ohm 111 watts/ 4 ohm 160 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 70.8 watts

Pioneer SC-27 (SC-25 uses the same ICE amps)
2 Channel:8 ohm 151 watts/ 4 ohm 224 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 107.4 watts

A bit surprising no?

The 3008 is not as subject to this kind of reduction in power!

cnh

The 5008, which has a toroidal transformer was rated by HT mag

http://www.hometheater.com/content/o...-labs-measures

It is a high current amp too , and are they saying that at 5 channels driven continuously, the output is only 79.1 watts? If so, even the high current amp suffers power loss

[kuntasensei]

Good point. But I find Audyssey overrated--recently I purchased a cheap RatShack SPL meter and it really upped the 'tweaking' ante.

cnh

Audyssey isn't overrated so much as it is misunderstood. The average Joe (the so-called set and forget crowd) almost never does a correct calibration with Audyssey. Like any room equalization, it is very much a garbage in/garbage out proposition. Your average user just puts the mic on the back of their couch or in the seat and hits next... whereas people who know how to use Audyssey place the mic on a tripod and avoid seatbacks because of the reflection/absorption issues that can make it sound horrible. If you follow a few basic guidelines when doing MultEQ XT calibration, it will give you fantastic results... and if you half-ass it, you'll think Audyssey is garbage (but then, you haven't given it the data it needs to do what it does).

Where most people's discrepancy lies as far as what Audyssey does vs. using a SPL meter to level match is this: Audyssey equalizes each channel then sets global levels based on the equalized channels' levels. If you check this post-Audyssey using the internal test tones, it usually won't match up to the levels that Audyssey has set. However, if you have properly calibrated using a tripod and double-check it with a test disc so that the tones take the entire system chain into account (including adjusting the crossovers based on the speaker specs rather than Audyssey's reading of the lower -3dB point and turning off DynamicEQ so it does not boost the surround presence when you're testing with a SPL meter), the level matching is typically dead-on correct, even if the internal tones tell a different story. This is because the signal generator for the internal tones doesn't pass through equalization in the AVR.

Then there's also the reference vs. preference issue... but that's a whole other conversation. But ultimately, I would take a 3008 over the 809 if it gets me MultEQ XT32. With careful calibration and intelligent setting of crossover points, you may very well find that with a capable subwoofer, you probably won't even need external amplification. Don't get too hung up on the power specs either... Those tests use constant noise tones that don't reflect real-world transient bursts in any listening material, and since speakers crossed over to the sub rarely require more than 50w for most home listening levels, you should be good. Additionally, there is very little listening material that requires all channels to be at peak levels at the same time, even in the most bombastic modern digital soundtrack. So go with the AVR with the most features and worry about power later IF you feel you need it.

[jon s]

You might want to reconsider getting an Onkyo right now... There have been numerous issues with overheating HDMI boards and IDE connectors failing with the latest models. Onkyo has recognized the issue with the IDE connectors but not the problems with the HDMI boards.

The HDMI boards get so hot, they dry out the caps on the board and the board fails right about the time the warranty expires (my receiver died right before the warranty expired... I was able to get it fixed under warranty. A new HDMI board costs $1,000).

The IDE connector is apparently causing issues where the receiver cycles thru different inputs on its own. While they do not have a recall on it, they did acknowledge the problem. They have to replace the connector and the associated cables as well. This problem is across several different models, almost the entire AV reciver lineup.

[B Run]

I just picked up a refurbished 3008 on Amazon for $720 and am very happy with it. The Audyssey multeq xt32 is great. I've gone back and forth between using it and hooking my 130 wpc Adcom amp back up. After trying them both, the amp adds a little more low and midrange punch. The 3008 can run my Rti's just fine, it's a little brighter than when I use my amp but it also seems just a tad clearer. Overall I like the sound of it paired with the Adcom, but could easily use it as is.

[BWilberg266]

I just picked up a refurbished 3008 on Amazon for $720 and am very happy with it. The Audyssey multeq xt32 is great. I've gone back and forth between using it and hooking my 130 wpc Adcom amp back up. After trying them both, the amp adds a little more low and midrange punch. The 3008 can run my Rti's just fine, it's a little brighter than when I use my amp but it also seems just a tad clearer. Overall I like the sound of it paired with the Adcom, but could easily use it as is.

Nice, I was just going to add that I bought a 3008 from Amazon for $746 and I am very pleased with it.

The power ratings you see on this amp are due to the fact that there is a limiter that kicks in to protect itself from being accidentally damaged. That being said the transformers in this thing are no slouch. In real world situations you are not going to get continuous power requirements of 140 watts across 7 channels (or 9 in the 3008's case) in almost any track that you listen to. I have watched many a blu-ray listening at reference level and not once has the limiter kicked in. The 3008 has plenty of power to spare and the XT-32, independent block construction, and 4 transformers will give you a separation and quality that the 809 won't offer. Not saying the 809 is a slouch by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't trade my 3008 for one even if you offered me a few hundred on top.

And besides, until you can get that amp added, you can bridge the front two to get you more power.

[matchan]

Did the 3008 have warranty?

[B Run]

I bought this one with it http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QCGLHQ/ref=WD_warranty_OLP

[bradigal]

I just picked up a refurbished 3008 on Amazon for $720 and am very happy with it. The Audyssey multeq xt32 is great. I've gone back and forth between using it and hooking my 130 wpc Adcom amp back up. After trying them both, the amp adds a little more low and midrange punch. The 3008 can run my Rti's just fine, it's a little brighter than when I use my amp but it also seems just a tad clearer. Overall I like the sound of it paired with the Adcom, but could easily use it as is.

I have been looking for a refurb 3008 for weeks - Was there really one that low - $ 720 - on Amazon ? Lowest I have seen is open box for 1102 or refurb at Accessories Depot for 1199 ? Newegg open box was 999 but no way to get a warranty - Sq trade will not honor Newegg open box

Any advise how to find another refurb that low on Amazon ?

BTW I am currently trying out the Denon 4311 - Have it for 30 day before have to decided to keep open box at Best Buy - Have it hooked up in 11.1 using
my old Onkyo 805 as a 'power amp' - Denon does 9.1 Onkyo does next 2 channels - So far so good on the unit although HDMI handshake issues with Comcast cable box

4311 nice UI but timely to set it up just right

[B Run]

Yeah I got lucky and saw it as soon as I saw it. There were 3 that were open box, mine for $720 in very good condition, one for $746 in Like new condition and one for $765 in brand new condition. Mine was in mint condition and i've been VERY happy with it. I haven't seen any that cheap before or since then, so I wish I could help you out. Best of luck!

[bradigal]

You might want to reconsider getting an Onkyo right now... There have been numerous issues with overheating HDMI boards and IDE connectors failing with the latest models. Onkyo has recognized the issue with the IDE connectors but not the problems with the HDMI boards.

The HDMI boards get so hot, they dry out the caps on the board and the board fails right about the time the warranty expires (my receiver died right before the warranty expired... I was able to get it fixed under warranty. A new HDMI board costs $1,000).

The IDE connector is apparently causing issues where the receiver cycles thru different inputs on its own. While they do not have a recall on it, they did acknowledge the problem. They have to replace the connector and the associated cables as well. This problem is across several different models, almost the entire AV reciver lineup.

When did you get yours ? How long before it failed ? Seems to be problems with the later batches - 2 amazon reviews in June show bad units

[rebuy]

Other than the 5 watt/channel and 5% THD, power is identical. What am I missing ?

809
Front L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Center 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround Back L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%,

2 channels driven, FTC)

Dynamic Power 300 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
250 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
150 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)




3008

Power Output -

Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Center 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz, 0.05%,
2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Surround Back L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
Front High/ Wide 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

Dynamic Power 320 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
270 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
160 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) 0.05% (Rated power)

So far my onkyo has been ok.
I got it for 213 dollars so I can't complain but here are the
lab measurements.


Onkyo TX-SR608 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures
HT Labs Measures

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 82.3 watts
1% distortion at 84.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 30.9 watts
1% distortion at 40.1 watts



I'm not planning for 7 channels so 82 at 5 channels works for me, For Now

[matchan]

Onkyo 809 on sale at Amazon for $699..

Waiting on the 3008...