rti150 or lsi15?

[dave shepard]

I'm almost ready to order the pb2+ sub and am also looking at upgrading to new speakers for the ht. I will start by getting two fronts and am currently looking at the rti150 at cc or the lsi15 which other then cc and bb there is no real hi-fi stores in my area the one that is here is probably getting out of polk and sells at almost full-retail. Has anybody auditioned these two and what did you think?

Thanks Dave

[VR3]

If you must go RT, I would go RTi70 especially if you plan to get the PB2+...

The RTi150 is over rated. Get the RTi12 if you must have them Subwoofers. That line will release soon.

However, prior to your post - go LSi15, if you plan to get Seperates in the future.

Disclaimer - The above is my opinion. The RTi150 is a great speaker, just not for the price. Needs an extra mid-bass woofer (IMO). The RTi12 could use it for a peace pipe. I still believe the RTi70 and RTi8 can smoke both of them...

EDIT:
I also believe unless you plan to put butt-loads of power to the i150 or the i12, I would DEFINETELY not get them. I heard them with a 200 watt amp and that bass didn't even hit my chest. Was highly dissapointed in the bass performance the i12 put out...

[bigsexy1]

Not an easy answer. Ordinarily, I'd throw out the old "do you have a receiver or seperates" question before recommending about RTi vs LSi, but that doesn't apply here in this case because the simple fact of the matter is that the 150 will require just as much (if not even more) amplifier power as the 15 to truly play up to all of it's capabilities. The difference though, is that if you have a 100 watt or so per channel receiver, it will drive the relatively efficient 150s halfway descent (probably much better than it would the 15's 4 ohm load). Especially with your SVS and if you cut the lower frequencies off from them through your receiver's bass bypass crossover (but if you do that, then what's the point of even having the 150s in the first place, as that would be a criminal waste of woofage). Either way, if you have enough amp power with either the 150s or the 15s, I'd set them to large, and wouldn't even use the SVS on 2 channel stereo music (but that's just me, as I personally don't like a stand alone sub on music). One other thing to consider though, the 150s would have other speakers in a surround system from the RTi line to match it, and at least all of the rest of them wouldn't require as much amp power as a whole full set ensemble of LSis would for all of the other channels. Plus, if you get the 150s, you would still have the option to trade up to the RTi12s within the next year. On the other hand, at the price that you can get the 150s for now (I've heard of them going for $500 a pair, new in box at some cities), it truly is a no-brainer to buy these speakers, and to keep them. Another factor to consider is what will you be listening to on them. I know that I'm probably going to catch a lot of flak from LSi owners over what I'm about to say, but I personally feel that the 150/12 is probably better suited for movies and hard rock/heavy metal music then the 15s are.

Usually, I'd say to just ignore what the 15 year old kid (who often sounds like he's the one hitting the peace pipe) says, but in this particular case, he may actually be right about the 70, if you do decide to go with the RTi line, given your sub, and especially if you don't have (or at least plan on getting) a seperate power amp of at least 200 watts per channel. Whatever you do though, just don't get too caught up in the hype about how much greater the 70 is than anything else just because it has that extra passive midrange driver though. Hell, if that's the case, then I guess the R50 and even the R30 are also even better than the 150, huh?

[VR3]

::Usually, I'd say to just ignore what the 15 year old kid (who often sounds like he's the one hitting the peace pipe)::

BigSexy (wish I knew your real name, heebie jeebie...)

F*** YOU!

O.K, now thats out of the way. The RTi70's mid-bass woofers BOTH play the Frequencies below 2.5(?)khz. They are not a 2.5 way, but indeed a 2 way split into 3 drivers.

The RTi12 is 300 less than the RTi150 was retail, and is better. It is worth the wait if you must have the subwoofers built in.

Now back to the beginning of my post...

I am 14

EDIT: Since you want to be a total @$$ about it, I'm gonna say this - the R series uses different woofers, tweeters, cabinets, everything in comparison of the RTi line - no comparison between them really, IMO. So NO, the R50 will NOT be better than the RTi150. I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer. With THAT combo, you could blow away the RTi150 and then some. O.K, phone down, I'm Done!

The above is directed to BS, no one else

The RTi150 is a good speaker, and if you could find it for 500 a pair. I would go for it, thats a good deal. However, the RTi12 is much better, but I would make sure you do extensive demos between the RTi70, RTi150 or the RTI8 and RTi12. The differences will vary upon your taste. It is your money, your choice. Your taste in sound, buy what you like. We can suggest what we like, that is all...

[dorokusai]

What are you going to run either of those choices on? That would essentially make your choice for you. Power and current are needed for the LSi's...the RTi150's are much more forgiving, and flexible.

LSi15's are demanding, and they sound fantastic. RTi150's are solid performers, and they sound good.

[VR3]

54" Philips Magnavox
Panasonic SA-HE200 6.1 receiver
Panasonic DVD-CP72
POLK RM7200 speaker set w/free 202sub
Hitachi fx631 hi-fi vcr



Specs on his receiver...

100 watts x 2 (stereo) into 6 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.5% THD — or 130 watts x 6 in surround mode
Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES, and Pro Logic II decoding
6 soundfields (Hall, Club, Live, Theater, Enhanced Surround, Party Mode)
MOSFET amplifier design
TA-KE capacitors for natural, low-distortion sound
Multi-Source Re-Master processing
192 kHz/24-bit D/A converter
multibrand remote control with glow-in-the-dark keys (remote is black, even for silver receiver)
component video switching (2 in, 1 out)
digital inputs: 4 optical, 1 coaxial
digital outputs: 1 optical
4 audio (including phono) and 5 A/V (including 5 S-video, 1 front-panel, and one 5.1-channel) inputs
tape monitor loop
preamp-level subwoofer output
independent subwoofer level control
banana plug-compatible, gold-plated binding posts for all speakers
30 AM/FM presets
16-15/16"W x 6-5/16"H x 15-3/8"D
warranty: 1 year

EDIT:

Looks to only have a sub pre-out. I wouldn't go with either of the above choices, honestly...but hey! Thats me...

Oh yeah, I am confused -- How does it have 130 into 6.1 and 100 in 2? Anyone know? I'm curious.....

[dorokusai]

Trey - Thanks, I swear I didn't see that. ;)

OK, now I know more.

I think the LSi15's will kill your receiver. Go with the RTi150.

[VR3]

I still say, with THAT subwoofer go with the i70. I am serious!

The RTi70 and a PB2+ will STOMP the i150 PB2+ combo, you would be running the RTi150 on small unless you had one killer amp (then it would be mainly up to that one woofer to reproduce midrange, forget the subwoofers on the i150, then you have the RTi70, running 2 mid-bass drivers. This is actually kinda a no brainer to me...

[dave shepard]

That's pretty good MX you've done some quick homewook on my reciever. I wasn't aware of the 100x2 stereo, I new 130x6 and don't know how either, I never read any different. Your point is one of my coincerns with the pb2+ there wouldn't be any real need for a set with woffers in them I would rather have a good soild mid-range and crisp tweeter speaker, or at least I would think. Mostly it would be used for movies and tv I don't listen to music much at home. I'm 34yrs. and just getting back into this after a long absence from hi-fi. I like the sound of the rt70 compared to the lsi9 and so did my wife and also like the 150 the problem is the rt70& lsi9 are in one store and the rti150 is at cc accross town. Neither was a very good audition just a sample so it might not be fair for me to judge so soon and the lsi9 were in a crappy spot (in a window behind a set of paradigms).

[faster100]

sexy is still kinda hung up on yall bashing the 150's over the 70's.. well saying the 70's were the better choice i should say..

I love my 70's, But the "man" in me wants the 150's for the manly man look :D however the 70's are my best choice with my sub also, oh well

[bigsexy1]

"BigSexy (wish I knew your real name, heebie jeebie...)

F*** YOU!"



Hey boy, don't flatter yourself so much in your prepubescent adolesent fantasies.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"The RTi70's mid-bass woofers BOTH play the Frequencies below 2.5(?)khz. They are not a 2.5 way, but indeed a 2 way split into 3 drivers."


OK, so, what's your point that you are trying to make? Did anyone (especially me) say that it was a 2.5 way? I must have missed that one.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The RTi12 is 300 less than the RTi150 was retail, and is better. It is worth the wait if you must have the subwoofers built in."


Get your facts straight junior, there are no built in subwoofers. They are passive woofers. However, I'm sure that you are right about the 12s being better (hey, even a broke clock is right twice a day). In all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to the 12s. They should have the same awesome bass of the 150s, with slightly better midrange dynamics and a better tweeter to boot. I think this has the potential to be a killer speaker.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I am 14"

Sorry about that. I guess I gave you too much credit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer."



If it's the same price, then where's the extra money you save to use for a subwoofer coming from?


School's out for now junior! Now go to sleep so you can get up in the morning for jr. high.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
"I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer."



If it's the same price, then where's the extra money you save to use for a subwoofer coming from?

In a HT application, (i suppose many would disagree with this, but) the 150's would generally be run as a small speaker (unless you have a monster amp attached to it) because it can't handle a full range signal, like the majority towers out there. Compared to a speaker where the emphasis is on the mids vs. on the quantity of drivers spent on low end that won't be used because they can't fully handle the signal, it's money wasted for that type of situation. Big loves his 150's, and hates that others feel the 70 is a more versitile speaker, but the brunt of what you have to decide on is how you're going to use them. If you're dead set on getting a PB2+, then getting the 150 that has all the woofs in the cabinet would be pretty much a waste. That also has to do with the versitility of your source. Personally, I run my Mains, Center, and Sub to listen to music (sometimes go 5 channel too). If you don't want the extra bump from your sub when you listen to strictly 2 channel listening, then maybe the 70's wouldn't cut it for you.

I'm definitely going to be checking out the RTi12's. I think the potential is there for them to exceed anything that Polk currently has out, but if you don't have major plans for a source to run them, they won't work the way they should.

Good luck with your decision......

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by dave shepard
I'm almost ready to order the pb2+ sub and am also looking at upgrading to new speakers for the ht.

Your bass needs for HT and music will forever be taken care of with the PB2+.

Let's not waste our time discussing the relative merits of the RTi70 vs. RTi150 vs. RTi12 ad nauseum. They guy is getting a world class 115 pound subwoofer with twin 12" ultra high excursion woofers, a 900 watt digital amplifier, and three 4" flared ports. It will crush into dust anything Polk currently makes in the bass department, including the RTi12.

You don't need, nor should you purchase, any power hungry speaker with several passive woofers. There is no need to buy your bass twice - focus on what the speaker will be capable of above 80 Hz.

Your best buy would be the RTi70 since it has two passive midrange drivers and therefore will sound superior to any other currently available RTi speaker in a high passed application using a quality powered subwoofer.

I will repeat this - the best currently available RTi speaker for a high passed application using a quality powered subwoofer is the RTi70.

[VR3]

Just walks away...but
You said something along these lines *a passive mid-bass woofer and an active (something of that sort), I thought I would correct you.

I use the RTi70 for 2 channel, and as long as you don't ask them to play below 40hz...man they can really thump for 2 channel.

Doc,
How is it you can say the same thing I do and make everyone understand twice as fast? I just don't get it...:p

[dave shepard]

Sorry, I didn't mean to open the can of verbal whop-ass in my question. Thank you all for your posts none the less, my coincern was if the extra woofers would be reindered useless or at least not be required with the pb2+ anywhere within earshot (100yrds LOL) of the front speakers. Once those are inhouse we'll go to the surrounds.

Thanks again

[Grimster74]

I have to chim in here, I'm all for what Trey said, I'm currently running the RTi70's with the PB2+ and absolutely floored everytime I hear mine. Don't get my wrong, I'd love to have the whole LSi, (which is in my current savings for the line somewhere in the near future) but with the RTi150's of the LSi15's, just don't think the AVR will have enough power to drive them with enough wattage to make them sing. A good friend of mine is driving the RTi150's with a Denon 5803 and still can't get over how much better mine sounds then his. He has finally come to the conclusion that it's time to buy a amp. And I'm sure he's looking into the PB2+ also.

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by Grimster74
A good friend of mine is driving the RTi150's with a Denon 5803 and still can't get over how much better mine sounds then his.

Gavel slammed - case closed.

[bigsexy1]

I do not understand why anyone would even buy the 5803. I think the 3803 (which has basically the same awesome pre/pro section as it's bigger brother) plus an amp(s) with the signifigant cost savings would easily best the 5803. S&V measured the 5803's true power output at 118 watts per channel, or something like that. It didn't even top the 4802, which came in at like 140 some per (with all channels driven) if I remember correctly. More and more, I'm starting to think that only B&K, HK, Rotel and NAD actually meet spec.

I'd also be very surprised if Dave's Panasonic receiver is actually anywhere even close to 100 watts per channel in it's true output . It has no business with either the 150s/12s or especially the LSi 15s.

I do agree that in this particular case, the 70 may be the best bet (as I had already pointed out in post #3).

[Grimster74]

As far as "WHY" he would purchase the 5803. Partly because he used to work for Denon up until about 4 months ago as a Sales Rep. If anyone found out what he paid for it they would probaly fall out of they're chairs gasping for air.

[bigsexy1]

Allright then, hit us with it Grimster! What did he get it for? Just let me get my oxygen tank ready first.
Don't get me wrong, if he could get the 5803 for the same price as any of us could get a 3803, then I don't blame him. OTOH, just imagine what he could have gotten a 3803 for!
Either way, the 5803 would still benefit from external amps just like the 3803.

[Emlyn]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
More and more, I'm starting to think that only B&K, HK, Rotel and NAD actually meet spec.

I'd also be very surprised if Dave's Panasonic receiver is actually anywhere even close to 100 watts per channel in it's true output . It has no business with either the 150s/12s or especially the LSi 15s.

I do agree that in this particular case, the 70 may be the best bet (as I had already pointed out in post #3).

Agreed. Neither the RTi150s or LSi15s are a good idea with the Panasonic receiver. For home theater use with a big subwoofer, the RTi70s are the way to go.

By the way, while I agree that the RTi150s need separate amplification, I don't agree that it needs to be 200wpc or 300 wpc. I run two pair full range in a five or seven channel stereo mode (or multi-channel DVD-A or SACD) with my 120wpc Rotel and the amp doesn't even get warm when it's driven hard. The amp section in the receiver does get hot when trying this though.

[Grimster74]

Oh, could not agree more Big., okay are you ready for this. Granted, I've only known him for about a month but he seems pretty reliable, but from what he told me he paid something between $650 to $750 brand new. Told me he was going to look for the receipt to show me but he hasn't come through yet. Of course, havn't seen him in a week or so.

[bigsexy1]

G74, if that is true, then it was truly a no-brainer for him to get the 5803. He could have probably gotten a 3803 for about $300 then!
I guess that just goes to show how big the mark up on this stuff actually is in the first place as compared to how much it costs to produce it.

===========================================


Em., how are you digging those 30s?
About the 150, it is relatively efficient, but if you ever get the chance, try throwing even more power than the Rotel 125 watts to 'em and see what they are capable of. I think you might be surprised!
BTW, my Adcoms do get hot with them, but then again, they got hot even when driving highly efficient Klipschs.

[Emlyn]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
Em., how are you digging those 30s?
About the 150, it is relatively efficient, but if you ever get the chance, try throwing even more power than the Rotel 125 watts to 'em and see what they are capable of. I think you might be surprised!

Yep, more power would always be better for two-channel use. The RTi150s should really be fed by this monster:

Rotel 1090

Power consumption is 1200 watts. I have a space heater that uses less power!! But the RTi150s would take the output and still have room for more!

I love the FXi30s, but they would be unusable to me if I didn't have the ability to switch between A and B surrounds with my receiver. The dipole surrounds are excellent for home theater use. I was surprised at how much more involving the sound field is after turning off the direct radiating surround speakers I was using before. The FXi30s are not good for music though. Having the ability to use the FXi30s for movies and the RTi150s for music is great.

[VR3]

You forgot a name BS, Adcom. They are very conservative and offer a TON of slam. When you see big speakers, what do you see? Adcom...

[bigsexy1]

Vr3MxStyler2k3
"You forgot a name BS, Adcom. They are very conservative and offer a TON of slam. When you see big speakers, what do you see? Adcom... "


OK, I'm going to attemp to interpret what I think you are trying to say here. If you meant about companies that actually met spec, I was refering to receivers only, not seperates. Adcom doesn't make a receiver to my knowledge.
Otherwise, if you would have just bothered to look at my last post before this, you would have seen I mentioned that I'm running Adcoms, so that would have, or at least should have given you a clue that I hadn't forgotten them.

[VR3]

Ok Ok! My mistake, sorry...

[mantis]

My god fellas.......reads funny from over here,

ok,
The rti150's didn't impress me one bit.Actually I thought they sucked.No offence to 150 owners but thats my opnion.

The Lsi15's are worlds apart compared to the rt series.It's just the next level of performance.

As you guys mentioned above,what you are going to use is key.Matching everything is key.

[VR3]

Mantis,
I can honestly understand if you can sit here and tell me the LSi15 is worlds better than the RT line if you ran the RT line off of Denon Receivers......that is it ;)

Just Hackin on ya! I was highly dissapointed that I could not hear the LSi15 at Polk Audio HQ. Oh well, highly dissapointed...

[bigsexy1]

Mantis, I'm sorry, but I did get to check out the 15s for myself (running on some Parasound amps) at a dealer that finally started carrying the LSis not even 20 miles from me in a small town of all places. I just do not think that they are a great rock and roll speaker. Something was just lacking. It's hard to explain, but it's either there, or it isn't, and it wasn't. Not to me anyway. They just don't have the "slam" of the 150s to me while blasting AC/DC or Ozzy. On the other hand, if you are listening to some audiophile approved acoustical recording (that noone ever really listens to) such as "Mary Ulmer and Her Happy Little Dulcimer", or some other crap like that, then yes, I concede that the 15s will win hands down, no contest.

Let's face it, about the only difference between the LSis and the Rtis is the Vifa ring radiator tweets, and the new RTi line coming out will have some Vifa tweets of their own and even better cabinetry than the current LSis, so it will only close the gap just that much more. The 12 when it comes out should be a much more formidable competitor to the 15 than the 150 is.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are currently working on the next generation LSis, but I'm not expecting any gigantic leaps and bounds in improvement in them.

I also really wouldn't be too terribly shocked if Polk discontinued the Lsis either, due to the low sales and lack of dealers. Whether anyone likes it or not, the RTis and Circuit City are Polk's bread and butter, and what keeps them in business. I personally think it's a shame that CC didn't carry the Lsis to get them out to the masses.