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  1. #1

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    Default OnStar tracks your movement, even if you don't have a subscription...

    Check it out -

    Navigation-and-emergency-services company OnStar is notifying its six million account holders that it will keep a complete accounting of the speed and location of OnStar-equipped vehicles, even for drivers who discontinue monthly service.

    OnStar began e-mailing customers Monday about its update to the privacy policy, which grants OnStar the right to sell that GPS-derived data in an anonymized format.

    Adam Denison, a spokesman for the General Motors subsidiary, said OnStar does not currently sell customer data, but it reserves that right. He said both the new and old privacy policies allow OnStar to chronicle a vehicle?s every movement and its speed, though it?s not clear where that?s stated in the old policy.

    ?What?s changed [is that if] you want to cancel your OnStar service, we are going to maintain a two-way connection to your vehicle unless the customer says otherwise,? Denison said in a telephone interview.

    The connection will continue, he said, to make it ?easier to re-enroll? in the program, which charges plans from $19 to $29 monthly for help with navigation and emergencies.

    The privacy changes take effect in December, Denison said, adding that the policy reinforces the company?s right to sell anonymized data.

    ?We hear from organizations periodically requesting our information,? he said.

    He said an example of how the data might be used would be for the Michigan Department of Transportation ?to get a feel for traffic usage on a specific section of freeway.? The policy also allows the data to be used for marketing purposes by OnStar and vehicle manufacturers.

    Collecting location and speed data via GPS might also create a treasure trove of data that could be used in criminal and civil cases. One could also imagine an eager police chief acquiring the data to issue speeding tickets en masse.

    Jonathan Zdziarski, an Ohio forensics scientist, blogged about the new terms Tuesday. In a telephone interview, he said he was canceling his service and making sure he was being disconnected from OnStar?s network.

    He said the new privacy policy goes too far.

    ?They added a bullet point allowing them to collect any data for any purpose,? he said.
    There's more detail in the article posted by PCMAG.COM as well as Autoblog to include the Press Release. Luckily I don't have OnStar on my vehicles. :tongue:
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.

  2. #2

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    I believe OnStar just committed suicide.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    I believe OnStar just committed suicide.
    +1

    There's more -

    The data collection can be halted, however; OnStar must deactivate the data connection. "Unless the Data Connection to your Vehicle is deactivated, data about your Vehicle will continue to be collected even if you do not have a Plan," the privacy policy states. "It is important that you convey this to other drivers, occupants, or subsequent owners of your Vehicle. You may deactivate the Data Connection to your Vehicle at any time by contacting an OnStar Advisor."

    What data does OnStar collect? The company provides a detailed list:

    OnStar collects basic contact information, billing information with credit-card information, and details of the car, such as the make, model, and vehicle identification number (VIN);

    vehicle information, including diagnostic trouble codes, oil life, tire pressure, and fuel economy, as well as when your fuel was last refilled;

    crash information, including the direction of the crash, whether air bags were deployed, and whether the driver and passenger were wearing their seat belts;

    anonymized location information, such as the location and speed of the car, via the installed GPS.
    Least people can opt out of this, but how many people actually know about what OnStar is doing? There are plenty of vehicles out there equipped with OS as second/third owners and acquired them through private sale. So their information is being collected without one's consent.

    And if you do contact OS to have tracking disabled, who's to say they'll actually stop tracking you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.

  4. #4

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    I'm surprised gubmint motors told anyone.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

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    Old news, paranoid people disable it. Couple of posts from 3 and 4 years ago.

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ack-boxes.html

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...le-onstar.html

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    I heard about this a while ago. I really think they are opening themselves up to a civil suit if they start handing out the info to government agencies. I know I would be all over them if they gave my info out.

    I doubt most people know about it but you can opt out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Smith View Post
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.

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    Why would anyone buy a GM car anyway?
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

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    One of the main reasons for monitoring the vehicle is for warranty purposes. If they can determine that the vehicle was abused, they can and will cut off warranty claims. I cannot speculate as to what other neffarious purposes Gov't Motors would have to track their customers like this.
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    I doubt 'onstar just committed suicide'

    As long as i dont start getting speeding tickets in the mail, I dont really care. We have onstar on our Acadia.
    -Cody
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    While Onstar is biggest, there are other companies just like this in cars (Hyundai has their new Blue Link, BMW's Assist, Lexus' Link, etc.).

    I'd be surprised if any of them weren't doing almost the exact same thing.
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    I know Mercedes monitors and schedules service for certain cars. It gives you a count down and lets you know how much time you have till service. My buddies 500 gets picked up from him automatically. It's weird if you ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Smith View Post
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.

  12. #12

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    GM --> OnStar --> Bailout --> Big Brother is Watching.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe08867 View Post
    I know Mercedes monitors and schedules service for certain cars. It gives you a count down and lets you know how much time you have till service. My buddies 500 gets picked up from him automatically. It's weird if you ask me.
    My S550 does this, it alerts you of next service and what each service includes. On the NAV screen Mercedes will be shown so you know where to take it. As for OnStar, I had the service in my Escalade and it was great.
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  14. #14
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    This is absolutely nothing new, and anyone who carries a smart phone has the same thing. Unless you turn-off data and wifi on your phone, your cell company (and anyone who can persuade them to get the information) knows where you are 24/7. And don't even worry about the two years of internet history your ISP is required to keep on you per the federal government...

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    On one hand I tend to think that people overreact about stuff like this, if I'm not doing anything wrong then I could care less about someone knowing where I am. But on the other hand, I realize that most dystopian societies depicted in movies like Minotiry Report and Gattaca and books like 1984 all likely start with little things like this, but then those are fake, aka not real.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsSiMiLaTeD View Post
    On one hand I tend to think that people overreact about stuff like this, if I'm not doing anything wrong then I could care less about someone knowing where I am.
    So you've never broken any law in your lifetime? Never gone 56 in a 55? Always came to a complete stop at a stop sign? Never gone 20 in a 15 mph school zone at 10am when all the kids are in class?

    And this is just motor vehicle cases. It's estimated that the average person breaks 1-3 laws per day.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...wnloading.html

    BTW, even if you are 100% innocent, the government can accuse you of a crime with just the type of circumstantial evidence that these devices record.

    Here is a good video explaining how (lengthy but a good vid):
    http://youtu.be/i8z7NC5sgik

    I really hope we never get to a world where our every single movement is tracked by the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsSiMiLaTeD View Post
    I realize that most dystopian societies depicted in movies like Minotiry Report and Gattaca and books like 1984 all likely start with little things like this, but then those are fake, aka not real.
    Those are fictionalized / dramatized ideas used to make a point. They're not real but the message they're conveying is meant to make you at least think about something in a way you might not otherwise.

    So while they're not real, the scenarios they propose are valuable.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingo View Post
    And don't even worry about the two years of internet history your ISP is required to keep on you per the federal government...
    Your ISP only keeps a history of what IP address you have for two years, they don't keep an internet history. So far, that's against the privacy laws. Although our government is trying to change that.

  19. #19

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    Aside from all this paranoia........OnStar has the potential to save your life !

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by maximillian View Post
    I really hope we never get to a world where our every single movement is tracked by the government.
    Too late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdb View Post
    Aside from all this paranoia........OnStar has the potential to save your life !
    Whatever happened to rugged individualism ???

    And, everyone dies, or did someone tell you otherwise? Wait, do you live in a socialist country?
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  22. #22

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    Cling to that notion as you cling to life while bleeding out in a ditch

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    There are debates right now if red light cameras are even legal and these take pictures of your license plate. Do you really think the police can hand out tickets because of on star tracking? I think people are a little bit paranoid about this whole situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddmathis View Post
    There are debates right now if red light cameras are even legal and these take pictures of your license plate. Do you really think the police can hand out tickets because of on star tracking? I think people are a little bit paranoid about this whole situation.
    Years ago a rental car company was sued because they mailed the renter a ticket for going over the speed limit. I don't remember the outcome of the lawsuit, but this has happened already and I think you'd be naieve to think that as lazy as these people are with sending tickets for red lights/speeding cameras, they'll damn sure do it by GPS if they can.
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  25. #25

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    Repo men love OnStar. ;)
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Your ISP only keeps a history of what IP address you have for two years, they don't keep an internet history. So far, that's against the privacy laws. Although our government is trying to change that.
    It's been changed, several years ago. Gov't. Roadrunner. Welcome to the New World.

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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbigbluelight View Post
    It's been changed, several years ago. Gov't. Roadrunner. Welcome to the New World.
    No, it hasn't changed years ago. They are still working on it:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/23698...advocates.html

    http://news.cnet.http://news.cnet.co...snooping-bill/

    I'm sure it will be signed into law eventually.

  28. #28

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    Run on Reynold's wrap predicted.
    I'd better go buy stock now.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

  29. #29

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    That's pretty valuable data if collected with an appropriate consumer notice and privacy/usage policy. If you compare where people are driving to the current GPS maps you can figure out changes in roads and make all our GPS street maps more accurate. Traffic pattern data can help delivery routing software and make investments in streets more productive. It's not all negative.
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    Aren't most entities that 'sell' your data (Facebook, OnStar, and so on) in the 'business' of enhancing their profits by doing so?

    Just saying. We live in a time and place where, if there is money to be made 'someone' will be there to make it. My 'browser', for example, is ALWAYS watching what I do and using that info, compiling it, selling it, etc.

    Maybe information is 'all' we have left to sell these days? lol

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    Last edited by cnh; 09-23-2011 at 05:31 PM.

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