Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default SDA trouble shooting - where to go next?

    I'm still loving my 2.3 TLs, but even when I first hooked them up, I noticed that the SDA effect in the left channel didn't seem as strong as in the right. After a few days of close listening, and judicious use of the channel inverter switch on my pre, I'm certain that it isn't. I've verified the following:

    Alignment - speakers were aligned to the same plane using a laser sight, and to the same distance from the back wall and side walls.
    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    Battery test - all drivers move in unison on both speakers.
    Verified amp - used my backup common ground amp, same issue.
    Verified pre to amp ICs - tried a spare set, same issue.
    Verified source to pre ICs - tried a spare set, same issue.

    What's interesting is that if I flip the phase (by reversing the speaker cable) at the amp on the left channel, I get a strong SDA effect, the same as the right channel, but the image is pulled hard to the left. Flipping both channels just results in the original issue.

    The rest of the set up is: CJ pre, tube mono blocks, AI-1 SDA IC.

    From reading the SDA trouble shooting guide, it seems like most SDA issues are related to phase. And the fact that if I flip the phase on the speaker cable to the left channel gets a strong SDA effect, I think it is a phase problem. But I can't figure out where to look next. Or does the fact that even though all the drivers in the left channel move together when testing with a battery still allow for the possibility that the SDA drivers in one or both channelse are out of phase?

    TIA
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  2. #2

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    31,261

    Default

    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    That isn't right.

    It should be as follows;

    Mono signal - balance to left results in left channel stereo drivers on, right channel dimensional drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in right channel stereo drivers on, left channel dimensional drivers muted.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  3. #3

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
    Posts
    1,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    That's got to be part of the problem. I'd expect with a mono signal, the balance to the left, the left stereo drivers should not be muted.

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Battery test - all drivers move in unison on both speakers.
    That's good.

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Verified amp - used my backup common ground amp, same issue...
    ...The rest of the set up is: CJ pre, tube mono blocks, AI-1 SDA IC.
    What happens with the common-ground amp and a regular SDA interconnect cable?

    Is that a home-made AI-1?

  4. #4

    Member Sales Rating: (47)

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sufficiently Breathless
    Posts
    11,282

    Default

    ^^^^ common ground amp and sda cable^^^^^^^^^---good point.

    Please let us know what you find.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  5. #5

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
    That's got to be part of the problem. I'd expect with a mono signal, the balance to the left, the left stereo drivers should not be muted.
    Crap, I wrote that backwards. It should be:
    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, right stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.

    Sorry for that eff up.

    It's a Polk AI-1. I haven't tried a standard SDA cable and common ground amp yet.
    Last edited by quadzilla; 10-02-2011 at 07:22 PM.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  6. #6

    Member Sales Rating: (47)

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sufficiently Breathless
    Posts
    11,282

    Default

    just a thought,,but does the CJ invert phase?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  7. #7

    Member Sales Rating: (49)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wyred 4 Sound
    Posts
    11,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Crap, I wrote that backwards. It should be:
    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, right stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.

    Sorry for that eff up.

    It's a Polk AI-1. I haven't tried a standard SDA cable and common ground amp yet.
    I just did the same test and that's how mine are as well.

    Mono, balance to the right stereo is to the right on the left dimensional drivers on stereo drivers muted.

    Mono, balance to the left stereo is to the left on the right dimensional drivers on stereo drivers muted.
    No Way But The Hard Way, So Get Used To It!!!

  8. #8

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Well... common ground amp and standard SDA cable works fine. Uhm... AI-1 wired out of phase?
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  9. #9

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    just a thought,,but does the CJ invert phase?
    Not according to http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just...ght/a-PV2.html

    Phase Response: Line Stage phase correct, Phono Stage phase correct

    I opened the AI-1. Could someone with a known good cable check against this pic? I'm assuming the transformer doesn't phase invert? If so, then the AI-1 is definitely out of phase. But what I don't understand would be why when I reversed it, the problem didn't switch to the other side.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by quadzilla; 10-02-2011 at 08:14 PM.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  10. #10

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    31,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Well... common ground amp and standard SDA cable works fine. Uhm... AI-1 wired out of phase?
    Possible. It's also possible that the connections on the back of the binding post are wired incorrectly.

    If you remove the top of the AI-1, you should see the black and white wires reversed on the other side of the transformer.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  11. #11

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Possible. It's also possible that the connections on the back of the binding post are wired incorrectly.

    If you remove the top of the AI-1, you should see the black and white wires reversed on the other side of the transformer.
    OK, well, that answers the question I just asked.... I checked the wiring on the cups. It's the same on both sides. I didn't pull the passives to check the crossover though. Guess that'll be next.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  12. #12

    Member Sales Rating: (49)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wyred 4 Sound
    Posts
    11,225

    Default

    So do I have the same issues?? My speakers sound great and the front stage is wide and deep.
    No Way But The Hard Way, So Get Used To It!!!

  13. #13

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLFORLIFEFAN View Post
    So do I have the same issues?? My speakers sound great and the front stage is wide and deep.
    Unless one of your channels sounds like it never expands past one of the speakers, probably not. That's the effect I have. The right side extends at least to the wall. The left channnel seems stuck to the speaker.

    Also, now I'm more confused. I strapped the grounds together on the monoblocks and ran the standard SDA cable. I had no SDA effect at all at the point from either channel.
    Last edited by quadzilla; 10-02-2011 at 08:43 PM.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  14. #14

    Member Sales Rating: (49)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wyred 4 Sound
    Posts
    11,225

    Default

    My speakers are working as they should and are wired correctly.. quadzilla you had me second guessing things LOL!!!

    I have some media that sounds stronger on the right channel now and then and I have to say it f#@k's with me sometimes..
    No Way But The Hard Way, So Get Used To It!!!

  15. #15

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Well, thought I'd found it.... not so much. Seemed to work for a minute, but either it came back or I was just fooling myself.
    Last edited by quadzilla; 10-02-2011 at 09:14 PM.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  16. #16

    Member Sales Rating: (49)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wyred 4 Sound
    Posts
    11,225

    Default

    Awesome!!!! you should build a Dreadnaught!!! ;-0
    No Way But The Hard Way, So Get Used To It!!!

  17. #17

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    Crap, I wrote that backwards. It should be:
    Mono signal - balance to left results in right dimensional drivers on, right stereo drivers muted.
    Mono signal - balance to right results in left dimensional drivers on, left stereo drivers muted.
    This will be the norm if your speakers are wired correctly but you have them physically reversed L to R.
    '65 427 Shelby AC Cobra
    '72 Triumph TR-6
    __________________
    '88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
    '86 Polk SDA CRS+
    '84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
    '05 HSU VTF-3 Sub
    '93 Carver TFM-35 (just because)
    '88 Carver M-1.0t (just because)
    '14 PGA2310 based custom remote volume control
    '88 Adcom GFP-555
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
    '05 Onkyo DV-555 media
    '89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
    '89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media

  18. #18

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OldmanSRS View Post
    This will be the norm if your speakers are wired correctly but you have them physically reversed L to R.
    No, that's correct. With a mono signal and full left balance, the right stereo drivers should be muted and the right dimensional drivers should activate according to the SDA trouble shooting guide.
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  19. #19

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    31,261

    Default

    For the record, my post in #2 is wrong. I was thinking stereo instead of mono.....sorry for the confusion.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  20. #20

    Member Sales Rating: (5)

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Richardson, TX.
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    For what it's worth, this turned out to be a couple of things. One is that the AI-1 cable is twitchy. I sort of resolved that by running a coat hanger from the bass bolt down and making a hook to take the strain off the connector. The other is that the end caps were actually pretty off, so when I aligned the speakers, the right was toed out and the left was toed in by a fair bit. But at least it's working now. And I have to tighten the end caps...
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  21. #21

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
    Posts
    1,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by quadzilla View Post
    the ai-1 cable is twitchy.
    Dreadnaught!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. SDA-2 Trouble shooting
    By knie0012 in forum Vintage Speakers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-25-2011, 08:46 AM
  2. Sub Trouble Shooting
    By Frank Z in forum Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-05-2008, 05:07 PM
  3. Trouble Shooting LSiC One speaker no sound
    By mwaarna in forum Troubleshooting
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-16-2007, 04:14 PM
  4. Trouble shooting RM1300
    By joro514 in forum Troubleshooting
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-05-2005, 10:32 AM
  5. Trouble Shooting Subwoofer Help??
    By Keane in forum Troubleshooting
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-12-2005, 06:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts