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  1. #1

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    Default Pure Direct Mode

    I have a Pioneer VSX 1121. Does Pure Direct Mode bypass all settings and send a full range signal to the speakers?
    Thanks for any help. I used search but couldn't find the answer I wanted.

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    Yes it does. You can also get a "full range" signal by setting the speakers to "large". When in this mode, however, you will have to pick a crossover setting. My Pioneer goes down to 50hz.

    Not sure what speakers you are using or for what application, but when using Pure Direct, you are at the mercy of the source music.
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    Thanks for the help!

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    I only listen to music in Pure Direct mode....You may be at the risk of the "source",if you use the dacs in your cd or dvd player,but if you use an external Dac,like I do......it will beat the dacs in the receiver,like a rented mule.Even a $150 budget dac,is far superior to the dac in my Pio Elite receiver or any other recr,I know of.Why,suppossed audiophile's spend $1000 on a recvr and then use it for 2-channel music astounds me....HT....absolutely...music...never.Spend $600 on the recr and then get a $300 Dac and $150 tube amp and you'll never look back,imho.

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    I'v tried the pure direct function on my Yamaha rx-v665 and I do not like any of the settings except full 7chl stereo. All those other settings for music like chamber hall ,theater, roxy music club and Vienna opera house just seem to add varying degrees of echo and delay and totally detract from the music itself. I've said this many times before and for me these settings are a waste of time and when calling Yamaha they say it's a personal preference type of setting.As for the pure direct feature when the blue light comes on all those functions which I talked about are minimized.

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    Pure (source) 'Direct' used to mean the cleanest path from source to amp - bypassing everything not needed to pass the signal - tone controls, balance, dsp's etc. Not sure if that follows suit in your unit, but that is what it meant old school.
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    A while back someone on this forum suggested that with Onkyos the only way you can use the DAC in a CDP is to run Pure Audio. Otherwise, even if you send an analog signal, the Onk will convert it to digital and convert it back. I don't know if this is true, but that is what I recall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHTguy View Post
    A while back someone on this forum suggested that with Onkyos the only way you can use the DAC in a CDP is to run Pure Audio. Otherwise, even if you send an analog signal, the Onk will convert it to digital and convert it back. I don't know if this is true, but that is what I recall.
    It's true of almost all receivers and pre-amps. If you are doing anything at all to the signal, bass management, room correction, etc. it has to be converted to digital first. Using the pure or direct mode is the only way to bypass all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    It's true of almost all receivers and pre-amps. If you are doing anything at all to the signal, bass management, room correction, etc. it has to be converted to digital first. Using the pure or direct mode is the only way to bypass all that.
    Makes me question why music sounds best when the "Sound Retrieval" option is enabled when your in Stereo or PCM on the Pioneer Elite compared to the less ample pure direct mode. It's as if all he dynamics are gone and lots of the highs. Even with EQ off and Tone off. Were also talking about a DAC from the HDMI in to the RCA out to amp. You people swear by it... why does mine not sound like that's the definition?

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    Not following you Drenis, Pure direct mode is used if your source, such as a cdp,music server, outboard dac, is better than whats in the receiver.....and thats not that hard to do unless you have some vintage/or low level stuff your using as a source. With pure direct, you take the receiver out of the equation and your listening to the source alone. With the other sound formats, and if your connected to the receiver digitaly, then the receivers benefit is heard.

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    Most AVR's give you a few options. For pure 2 channel on my NAD it's called "Analog Bypass" & everything digital is bypassed giving you a straight thru signal. The format called "Stereo" allows full bass management. Both are excellent sounding formats. Of course all the other formats are strictly digital with no other options.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Not following you Drenis, Pure direct mode is used if your source, such as a cdp,music server, outboard dac, is better than whats in the receiver.....and thats not that hard to do unless you have some vintage/or low level stuff your using as a source. With pure direct, you take the receiver out of the equation and your listening to the source alone. With the other sound formats, and if your connected to the receiver digitaly, then the receivers benefit is heard.
    I don't know how else to put it unfortunately. My source is a HTPC that streams music off my main PC over a wired network with optical out on the discreet sound card (Auzentech Bravura) into the receiver. I can use either the Toslink or HDMI as both are plugged in and can be selected. When pure direct is used... the sound isn't as dynamic and crisp and loud as when you are using Stereo or PCM mode with the sound retrieval enabled.

    Also I find that if you change the sound formats on the PC, your sound changes too. For example, 16bit/44.1k or 16bit/48k or 24bit/96k (I found the highest output sounded terrible.)

    I know I have things to learn about my gear and audio as a whole... but I know what sounds right to me, and pure direct doesn't sound right given my setup. But I wish it did!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    My source is a HTPC that streams music off my main PC over a wired network with optical out on the discreet sound card (Auzentech Bravura) into the receiver. I can use either the Toslink or HDMI as both are plugged in and can be selected. When pure direct is used... the sound isn't as dynamic and crisp and loud as when you are using Stereo or PCM mode with the sound retrieval enabled.

    Also I find that if you change the sound formats on the PC, your sound changes too. For example, 16bit/44.1k or 16bit/48k or 24bit/96k (I found the highest output sounded terrible.)

    I know I have things to learn about my gear and audio as a whole... but I know what sounds right to me, and pure direct doesn't sound right given my setup. But I wish it did!
    The fact your using a HTPC makes a big difference. What program are you using to stream your music, and what output are you using when its not as "dynamic" (or is it the same with both?). Also what graphics card do you have installed?

    I use Media Monkey on my laptop for playback and send it out via HDMI to my Integra. I keep the volume on the laptop at 100, and the driver Media Monkey uses disables ANY EQ the computer would have added otherwise.

    You should use a program like Media Monkey that uses a ASIO driver of some sort so your getting the music bitperfect to your AVR, thats why it sounds different when you change the sample rate.

    It also depends on how good or bad your source is. 128bps mp3s wont sound as good as 320bps mp3's which wont sound as good as .flac files, etc.
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 10-10-2011 at 10:42 AM.

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    This is great stuff! I was wondering too. Because of this thread I put on pure direct for streaming my flac files from the mac to the ps3, and for my harmon Kardon cd player, and for the marantz vintage 2230 while playing records. For me pure direct on all those was by far the best sounding. I experimented with other settings but for music pure direct was great. I have the lower end Pioneer vsx1020which has many of the same settings. The manual doesn't really explain what all the different settings mean or do. It isn't the best receiver but worked for me in my budget at the time. Thanks again for this info.

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    Drenis, given your setup, I would recommend you picking up an outboard dac, running the digital signal into it, and analog connections out to the receiver in direct mode. Using a PC as a source takes alittle more to get good sound from it. Also as others suggested, flac files would be the way to go, but by no means is the only way. Even apple lossless is better than mp3's and thats just a click away on your standard Itunes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    The fact your using a HTPC makes a big difference. What program are you using to stream your music, and what output are you using when its not as "dynamic" (or is it the same with both?). Also what graphics card do you have installed?

    It also depends on how good or bad your source is. 128bps mp3s wont sound as good as 320bps mp3's which wont sound as good as .flac files, etc.
    Somedays I HATE PC's... You type up a LONG response for it only to lose it all... fuuuuuuu...ARGH... The auto-save function DOES not work

    Anyways lets try this again... I use a 5670 ATI for streaming HD video and audio when watching a Blu-Ray. otherwise, I use the Zune software to stream and list all my music files (all 320kbps with up to 10% that ranges from 128-256k). It streams out the Toshlink of my sound card to my receiver. Regardless of using HDMI or Optiocal out, unless Sound retrieval IS enabled, it doesn't sound as good. This is of course disabled when you select Pure Direct.

    The output that I use is 24bit/48k which SEEMS to sound the best... anything higher and the sound is a lot quieter. Also, there isn't THAT much difference between flac and 320k files. Nothing that my ears really notice. Would be impossible to up-convert my files to flac anyways which I'm not even sure you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Drenis, given your setup, I would recommend you picking up an outboard dac, running the digital signal into it, and analog connections out to the receiver in direct mode. Using a PC as a source takes alittle more to get good sound from it. Also as others suggested, flac files would be the way to go, but by no means is the only way. Even apple lossless is better than mp3's and thats just a click away on your standard Itunes.
    Sounds as if HTPC's are **** for music servers... If that's the case then I'm out $700 on a very good HTPC setup. I had asked earlier as to the benefit of going with an external DAC when the Elite has Wolfson DAC's built in which I always thought were VERY GOOD DAC chips from what I've learned. No? I don't use an EQ and all tone controls are bypassed in the receiver.

    The other problem is flac is like 7.1 surround... it's just not that popular to acquire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    Anyways lets try this again... I use a 5670 ATI for streaming HD video and audio when watching a Blu-Ray. otherwise, I use the Zune software to stream and list all my music files (all 320kbps with up to 10% that ranges from 128-256k). It streams out the Toshlink of my sound card to my receiver. Regardless of using HDMI or Optiocal out, unless Sound retrieval IS enabled, it doesn't sound as good. This is of course disabled when you select Pure Direct.

    The output that I use is 24bit/48k which SEEMS to sound the best... anything higher and the sound is a lot quieter. Also, there isn't THAT much difference between flac and 320k files. Nothing that my ears really notice. Would be impossible to up-convert my files to flac anyways which I'm not even sure you can.
    I also have a Zune and use the Zune software. Here is my suggestion (I am assuming your using Windows and not a custom OS like XMBC). Copy ALL your music to another location on your HTPC, or even an external drive (this will make sense in a minute). Install Media Monkey and use the secondary location of your music for it to create a library based on.

    Play your Music in Media Monkey using the HDMI audio out ONLY. Media Monkeys driver will ensure your getting a pure signal TO your AVR. Your AVR then will PASS that signal ON that way via Pure Direct mode.

    If you like the way it sounds with Media Monkey, just delete the second copy of your music, and let it build you a library from your current one. You would then use the Zune software ONLY for your Zune, and Media Monkey to play back your music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    Sounds as if HTPC's are **** for music servers... If that's the case then I'm out $700 on a very good HTPC setup. I had asked earlier as to the benefit of going with an external DAC when the Elite has Wolfson DAC's built in which I always thought were VERY GOOD DAC chips from what I've learned. No? I don't use an EQ and all tone controls are bypassed in the receiver.
    Disagree. I am planning on building one myself. Its the Zune software in your chain that I believe is the problem, not the computer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    The other problem is flac is like 7.1 surround... it's just not that popular to acquire.
    I agree, I re-ripped my entire library of CD's into FLAC, but I do have a lot of MP3's coded using lossy formats for which I dont have the original CD's. I have not yet decided if I want to include them in my Media Monkey library yet. I use Windows Media Center to play them back right now.
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 10-10-2011 at 12:20 PM.

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    Enders - My music is stored on my primary PC along with movies, pictures, etc... on my HTPC, I have the library in the menu system routed to play files OFF the remote PC on the HTPC. There is no sufficient storage on the HTPC to copy all my music. Maybe the Zune software is the culprit. I'll look into this media monkey when I get home later.

    Thanks for trying to help though fellas... I'll get it figured out. It's obvious I must not be getting the proper music source.

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    Drenis: My bet is 100% that its the Zune software causing the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Drenis: My bet is 100% that its the Zune software causing the issue.
    Time for YOU, and everyone else who has a Zune, to pick up an iPod.

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    Quote Originally Posted by codyc1ark View Post
    Time for YOU, and everyone else who has a Zune, to pick up an iPod.
    Have you even used a Zune HD or the Zune software? I'm going with a assumed "no" or else you would be telling people to buy Zunes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by codyc1ark View Post
    Time for YOU, and everyone else who has a Zune, to pick up an iPod.
    Why the Hell would I do that? I hate Itunes. I hate apple.

    Does the Zune fail in regards to accessories, heck yes, but as an interface its soo freaking nice (or at least my Zune HD is).

    Plus it works great with my computer in regards to TV I recorded via my HD Tv Tuner, my movies, etc.

    Just because a product line is dead doesnt mean it still doesnt function properly or that it isnt useful.

    If that were true no one on the forum would have SDA's.

    No offense intended but I hate all you friggin "Just buy an Ipod" guys. You never really have a good reason I need to.

    I can get music in mp3 format just as easy as in apple's proprietary format.
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 10-10-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Why the Hell would I do that? I hate Itunes. I hate apple.

    Does the Zune fail in regards to accessories, heck yes, but as an interface its soo freaking nice (or at least my Zune HD is).

    Plus it works great with my computer in regards to TV I recorded via my HD Tv Tuner, my movies, etc.

    On the day I buy an Ipod millions of innocent kittens will die lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by codyc1ark View Post
    Ha, I KNEW that flame was coming! Flame away!! Protect the kittens!!!
    No more need, I made my opinion known and dont want to get the OP off topic any more than I already have.

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    Alright, I downloaded Media Monkey, found all my music through the network. Played some music, and it didn't improve... even when it was playing a 900+k flac file, Pure Direct sounded worse then Stereo with Sound Retrieval enabled. This was via HDMI out to receiver.

    This is frustrating.

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    Media Monkey alone is not going to improve your sound quality. Is that what you expected ? You need a dac my friend. Believe me, I 'm going through the same process trying to get cd quality sound out of my computer. I know it costs money, what doesn't ? Just a computer and a receiver isn't going to cut it if good sound is what you seek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Media Monkey alone is not going to improve your sound quality. Is that what you expected ? You need a dac my friend. Believe me, I 'm going through the same process trying to get cd quality sound out of my computer. I know it costs money, what doesn't ? Just a computer and a receiver isn't going to cut it if good sound is what you seek.
    I guess I am just spoiled by the DAC in my Integra. It sounds just as good as CD when playing FLAC via HDMI from my laptop through it in direct mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Media Monkey alone is not going to improve your sound quality. Is that what you expected ? You need a dac my friend. Believe me, I 'm going through the same process trying to get cd quality sound out of my computer. I know it costs money, what doesn't ? Just a computer and a receiver isn't going to cut it if good sound is what you seek.
    No. What I expected is for someone to explain to me why I'm getting better sound from something other than pure direct. I've been given suggestions that it's the software I use to play my streamed music but that has solved nothing. External DAC or not... another question was regarding the Wolfson DAC's inside the Elite but no one has answered that yet. So with that, I'm still left confused regarding my source to receiver issue.

    Here is another question: I play a CD in the HTPC with my ASUS Blu-Ray Rom and it's sent out digitally to my receiver... the sound is still not as dynamic or full in pure direct as it is when in stereo or surround mode (PCM) with Sound Retrieval enabled. I'm still trying to figure out the "good" sound is. But what really gets me, is that CD's sound worse on pure direct over my other method.

    So I understand your struggle in your quest but mine is something else. I like the look and options of the Musical Fidelity M1 unit, but that wont come for a long while.

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    It's not just the dac chips Drenis that account for what comes out the other end. I too have an elite receiver with Wolfson dacs, does absolutely no good though to run a computer directly to it, the sound quality sucks. I stream wireless, which is another set of issues and another subject all together. Playing a seperate cdp as a source however sounds wonderfull. It's all in the conversion process and build quality.

    When playing a dvd or a blu-ray concert dvd, what does your receiver display on the front ? I have a feeling maybe you have some set up issues you need to go through in your receiver. Try hooking up a cheap cdp to the receiver and spin the same cd as you did on the computer.

    In pure direct mode, your being told by the receiver that your source for playing music isn't that good, plain and simple. Don't know how else to put it to ya bro.
    Last edited by tonyb; 10-11-2011 at 11:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    No. What I expected is for someone to explain to me why I'm getting better sound from something other than pure direct. I've been given suggestions that it's the software I use to play my streamed music but that has solved nothing. External DAC or not... another question was regarding the Wolfson DAC's inside the Elite but no one has answered that yet. So with that, I'm still left confused regarding my source to receiver issue.

    Here is another question: I play a CD in the HTPC with my ASUS Blu-Ray Rom and it's sent out digitally to my receiver... the sound is still not as dynamic or full in pure direct as it is when in stereo or surround mode (PCM) with Sound Retrieval enabled. I'm still trying to figure out the "good" sound is. But what really gets me, is that CD's sound worse on pure direct over my other method.

    So I understand your struggle in your quest but mine is something else. I like the look and options of the Musical Fidelity M1 unit, but that wont come for a long while.
    I believe stereo incorporates the sub hence why it feels a little fuller (since your getting extra help down low from your sub). I stil think its some computer setting I just dont get.

    I am going to say you should head over to AVSFORUM or HardOCP as they have some guys over there that might able to help you figure out whats going on and if its a simple setting I dont remember.

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