hit a wall with tuning... help would be appreciated

[billodell]

im a total noob and cant tune very well at all...

everything sounds pretty good but its not quite there. any input would be greatly appreciated.


here is my set up

2002 neon

polk db 5251 components mids in the doors and tweets in the cell panels
polk db 1222 subs in polk box

cda-9833

pdx-4.100
pdx-1.1000

hu settings

x-over

low -3 db slope 4 and 63 hz

mid low -3 db slope 4 and 100 hz

mid high -3 db slope 1 and 800 hz

high -4 db slope 1 and 5.0k

5 band p-eq settings

band 1
-3 db 3.0 width 100 hz
band 2
-2 db 3.0 width 315 hz
band 3
-3 db 3.0 width 1.2k
band 4
-2 db 3.0 width 3.2k
band 5
-3 db 3.0 width 16k

4 channel settings

channel 1/2 channel 3/4
gain 10:00 gain 10:00
filter off filter off
x-over 110 hz x-over 120 hz

mono settings

gain noon
gain select 1.0v - 8.0v
lp filter 50 hz
subsonic filter off


i do not use the passive crossover that came with my polks.
also time correction is not set
thanks for taking the time to read this long drawn out thing of mine

[arun1963]

hu settings

x-over

low -3 db slope 4 and 63 hz

mid low -3 db slope 4 and 100 hz

mid high -3 db slope 1 and 800 hz

high -4 db slope 1 and 5.0k

Put the sub on a 24db slope which is the max your hu allows. Try lowering the sub xo point to 50hz. Your mids will have a low pass and a highpass. Set the HP tp the same point as the sub and the LP at around 4khz. Raise the gains on the mids to 0. Set the HP for the tweeter at 4 kz on a 24db slope. The tweet set at -4db from the hu is fine.

5 band p-eq settings

band 1
-3 db 3.0 width 100 hz
band 2
-2 db 3.0 width 315 hz
band 3
-3 db 3.0 width 1.2k
band 4
-2 db 3.0 width 3.2k
band 5
-3 db 3.0 width 16k

Band 1 - 80hz @ Q of 1.5 and cut by 3db
Band 2 - 315hz @ Q 3 cut by 4db
Band 3 - Try either 1 or 1.2 khz @ Q of 3 cut by 2-4db
Band 4 - 3.2khz @ Q 3 cut by -4db
Band 5 - 10khz @ q3 cut by -4/5 db

4 channel settings

channel 1/2 channel 3/4
gain 10:00 gain 10:00
filter off filter off
x-over 110 hz x-over 120 hz

bypass the xover at the amps. You've already set it at the hu.

mono settings

gain noon
gain select 1.0v - 8.0v
lp filter 50 hz
subsonic filter off

Lower the gains to like 10:00

i do not use the passive crossover that came with my polks.
also time correction is not set
thanks for taking the time to read this long drawn out thing of mine

Use TA. Measure the duistance from the cones (sub, mid, tweets) to your driver side headrest. Now set your sub at 0. Now lets say the sub is at 82" and the far mid is at 54" and the near mid at 41" (Numbers cited as example only) You want to delay everything around your furthest driver. So the sub is 82-54=28" further than your mid. So with the sub at 0 set the far mid at 28/13.5 = 2.07ms delay. The near mid would be 82-41=41" = 41/13.5=3.04ms delay and so on.

I would normally recommend doing this by ear but since you're starting out start with measured distance and then we will work our way around that. Try this and lets hear some feedback

[billodell]

thanks arun! im going to go out and try your recomendations now.

i should have mentiond before that im running my hu in 3-way mode

[billodell]

i noticed a pretty substantial improvement in overall sq, except that now the highs seem almost shrill? also my xo on the hu only dips to 63hz for low

[pentoncm]

Crossing the subs and your mids at 63 Hz will be fine. I had the db6501 and I still have the db1212.

The db are good speakers for the money but in my opinion they do not do well below 60Hz so don't cross below here or its going to sound like there is a gap. Plus you have the 5.25 inch ones which are going to struggle even more on the low end.

Couple of other suggestions for you.

Try switching between cutting band 1 as 80Hz and 125Hz to see which sounds better. I typically worry more about 125Hz.
Do the same for band 2, switch between cutting 250Hz and 315Hz.
1.2k is most likely the right point for band 3.
Switch between 2.5k, 3.15k, and 4k for band 4.
You could try going with 6.3k, 8k, or 12.5k for as well for band 5.

Just giving you some more suggestions.

Can you hear cymbals clearly out of the tweeters? If not you may need to shift your band 5 from 10k to 5 or 6.3k.

[MacLeod]

Stick with the cut at 80. 125 can thicken up vocals too much but it's worth it for the beef it adds to the music.

Bump the 3.2 setting up to 6.3 and lower that instead. 5-8KHz is what sounds hot and hissy so centering the frequency at 6.3 should fix that. Move the top most band up to 16khz and lower that.

Do home correction by ear. Get a cd or downlosd a single track that has a male narrator. Use that to adjustment time alignment. The male voice is best because it'll be equal volume in both channels and it covers 63-6300 Hz so it'll represent the largest group of frequencies.

[billodell]

Crossing the subs and your mids at 63 Hz will be fine. I had the db6501 and I still have the db1212.

The db are good speakers for the money but in my opinion they do not do well below 60Hz so don't cross below here or its going to sound like there is a gap. Plus you have the 5.25 inch ones which are going to struggle even more on the low end.

Couple of other suggestions for you.

Try switching between cutting band 1 as 80Hz and 125Hz to see which sounds better. I typically worry more about 125Hz.
Do the same for band 2, switch between cutting 250Hz and 315Hz.
1.2k is most likely the right point for band 3.
Switch between 2.5k, 3.15k, and 4k for band 4.
You could try going with 6.3k, 8k, or 12.5k for as well for band 5.

Just giving you some more suggestions.

Can you hear cymbals clearly out of the tweeters? If not you may need to shift your band 5 from 10k to 5 or 6.3k.

i can hear the cymbals pretty clear but the tweeters seem quite bright overly so actually.
with aruns suggestions the vocals cleared up quite a bit as they did seem a bit hollow? i think thats how id describe them.
i apreciate your insight and ill try your suggestions before i go into work tmw

[billodell]

Stick with the cut at 80. 125 can thicken up vocals too much but it's worth it for the beef it adds to the music.

Bump the 3.2 setting up to 6.3 and lower that instead. 5-8KHz is what sounds hot and hissy so centering the frequency at 6.3 should fix that. Move the top most band up to 16khz and lower that.

Do home correction by ear. Get a cd or downlosd a single track that has a male narrator. Use that to adjustment time alignment. The male voice is best because it'll be equal volume in both channels and it covers 63-6300 Hz so it'll represent the largest group of frequencies.

thats exactly what my high end sounds like! hot and hissy. thank you for the input ill also be checking your suggestions out before work tmw.

any particular track you would recommend ?

[pentoncm]

With all of the suggestions posted here there will be some combination of settings that will give you good sound.

I would suggest playing a few different tracks from different kinds of music and listen to them on a nice set of tower speakers at home or through headphones. Then go to the car and play these tracks and try to get it where each instrument/vocalist seems balanced and nothing jumps out at you above the other stuff. Each genre has unique benefits. Example, heavy rock I find is really good for getting the 250Hz to 800Hz region balanced because electric guitar will sound like mud if there are peaks here. Other than that, distorted guitar is hard to tune to outside this region. 90s alt rock is often good for tuning midbass frequencies because there are really nice bass lines and the electric guitar is pretty clean sounding and laid back.

Make sure to tune to different styles of music. You could think it's perfect and then put in something different and it will sound awful.

[billodell]

With all of the suggestions posted here there will be some combination of settings that will give you good sound.

I would suggest playing a few different tracks from different kinds of music and listen to them on a nice set of tower speakers at home or through headphones. Then go to the car and play these tracks and try to get it where each instrument/vocalist seems balanced and nothing jumps out at you above the other stuff. Each genre has unique benefits. Example, heavy rock I find is really good for getting the 250Hz to 800Hz region balanced because electric guitar will sound like mud if there are peaks here. Other than that, distorted guitar is hard to tune to outside this region. 90s alt rock is often good for tuning midbass frequencies because there are really nice bass lines and the electric guitar is pretty clean sounding and laid back.

Make sure to tune to different styles of music. You could think it's perfect and then put in something different and it will sound awful.

will do. i really appreciate all the help from you and arun and macleod


thanks again