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  1. #121

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    I'm feeling somewhat justified in my findings--check this out, I'm seeing some reports on various forums where people are using the same terms as I "too full sounding" "rolled off treble" and guess what the common denominator is?

    The "new" SqueezeBox Media server 7.7

    One guy claims after rolling back to an earlier version, his sound "greatly improved"--now take THAT with a grain of salt, but it makes me wonder.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-18-2011 at 12:01 PM.

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  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Don't know about the SB radio, but I enjoy the radio on my Sonos, from just about every country on the planet. I wouldn't get rid of it if radio is something you listen to even slightly.
    The SQBT internet radio feature is very cool, and sounds (to me) far better than XM/Sirius. Much more depth, less of a compressed sound. Sounds much more like the "FM" of old, played on a very good tuner.

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  3. #123

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    Steve, just noticed that you've got the Touch listed in your sig now. NICE!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    I'm feeling somewhat justified in my findings--check this out, I'm seeing some reports on various forums where people are using the same terms as I "too full sounding" "rolled off treble" and guess what the common denominator is?

    The "new" SqueezeBox Media server 7.7

    One guy claims after rolling back to an earlier version, his sound "greatly improved"--now take THAT with a grain of salt, but it makes me wonder.

    Mmmmm, maybe I won't be updating after all. I'm still on 7.6
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  5. #125

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    So is the SQB's playback software bit-perfect? We always talk about bit-perfect playback modes like ASIO and WASAPI with PC rigs that use USB>SPDIF converters or USB DAC's, but I never here about it with the SQB.

    I would imagine that our Polkie of the Year will chime in on this!
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  6. #126

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    Yes, it is.

    Sorry, didn't mean to steal any of the mighty Polkie's thunder!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  7. #127

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    He's probably trying to fit his head thru the door way....LOL

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  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by nspindel View Post
    Mmmmm, maybe I won't be updating after all. I'm still on 7.6
    Well, who knows if there's any truth to it---and then you always have that nagging feeling of "what great things is this update gonna do [/sarcasm]" going on. man this hobby is stressful.

    I warned you guys that I was a fussy bastard.

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  9. #129

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    I'm a lot more interested in checking out soundcheck's toolbox 3.0, actually. Upgrading to 7.7 was just a "might as well" but wouldn't be the first squeezecenter upgrade I've skipped. Maybe I'll just pop toolbox 3.0 on top of 7.6 and call it a day.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  10. #130

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    Steve, btw, did you ever mention if you have an iSomething to run iPeng? That app is just a must have once you have a squeezie.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  11. #131

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    This is curious, note this info from a forum:

    Big improvements with the Squeezebox can be gotten by:
    - direct wiring to router
    - running coaxial to a stand alone dac (in windows control panel go to manage audio devices make sure to set volume on your computer to 100, disable all sound effects under enhancements, set bit rate to 24/96 and check the two exclusive mode boxes. Also make sure to mute the sound on your computer.


    Looking at the second point about your computer being turned up to 100...is this true? Why would this affect digital output? I know for a fact that my laptop (hosting Media Server) is not turned up to 100, nor have I made any settings in Control Panel>audio devices. Should I have?
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-18-2011 at 03:21 PM.

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  12. #132

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    Streaming doesn't have anything at all to do with the Windows Audio Settings. As much as I like a good forum, I'm not sure some people know what they are talking about. If you were using your computer for sound, like I do for my office rig, then the settings highlighted above should be followed. But for using the SQB with the SQB softrware hard wired to your router or not, the above has no bearing on it.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  13. #133

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    Don't believe everything you read... Windows audio settings on the server are irrelevant to Squeezebox playback.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Why would this affect digital output?
    Data loss.Volume reduction in the digital domain requires bits to be thrown away lowering resolution.However running ASIO or WASAPI modes bypass any windows volume control etc.


    You gents with the Touch's need to ditch the cheesy RCA digital output con for a true 75 ohm BNC.
    Last edited by FTGV; 11-18-2011 at 03:34 PM.

  15. #135

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    See, I could have been Polkie of the Year! But no.... Mr Tube Roller gets it instead.... That contest was rigged :)

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by nspindel View Post
    Steve, btw, did you ever mention if you have an iSomething to run iPeng? That app is just a must have once you have a squeezie.
    I'm just using the standard remote at the moment. Once I determine the SQB is staying, then I'll look at fuzzy dice, and a cool license late frame...LOL

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  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Streaming doesn't have anything at all to do with the Windows Audio Settings. As much as I like a good forum, I'm not sure some people know what they are talking about. If you were using your computer for sound, like I do for my office rig, then the settings highlighted above should be followed. But for using the SQB with the SQB softrware hard wired to your router or not, the above has no bearing on it.H9
    Cool. I just want to make sure I'm not screwing up on my end.

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  18. #138

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    Steve, you are starting to drive yourself crazy with all the information, much like I do to myself. My Dad calls it "paralysis or analysis", guilty as charged. Many of the tips that are actually relevant are going to make minscule improvements, but you have to get a handle on what's legit and what's not. The set-up is pretty basic so as long as you aren't doing something sillyy like converting FLAC to MP3 accidentially all the tweaking shouldn't make a huge difference, IMO.

    I also can't for the life of me figure out why a newer version of the SQB software would alter the sound. That's like saying the new version of Turbo Tax has deeper screen colors. It's software management and I'm sure the upgrades have to do with operating efficiencies not SOUND. The SQB software has little to nothing to do with sound manipulation.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  19. #139

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    Nah, just second-guessing myself because my results seem to be pretty different from others. Just want to make sure I'm implementing this thing properly, and giving it the benefit of the doubt. Apparently, I'm doing it right.

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  20. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Steve, you are starting to drive yourself crazy with all the information, much like I do to myself. My Dad calls it "paralysis or analysis", guilty as charged. Many of the tips that are actually relevant are going to make minscule improvements, but you have to get a handle on what's legit and what's not. The set-up is pretty basic so as long as you aren't doing something sillyy like converting FLAC to MP3 accidentially all the tweaking shouldn't make a huge difference, IMO.

    I also can't for the life of me figure out why a newer version of the SQB software would alter the sound. That's like saying the new version of Turbo Tax has deeper screen colors. It's software management and I'm sure the upgrades have to do with operating efficiencies not SOUND. The SQB software has little to nothing to do with sound manipulation.

    H9
    As for the first paragraph, couldn't agree more. The important thing is to make sure you're streaming either PCM or FLAC, not mp3. Other than that, if you're not stepping up your power supply yet then I think the only other thing you really need to worry about is breaking the thing in. Turn your amp and preamp off when you're not listening and just let the thing play in a loop for a week.

    As for the software, it definitely can make a difference. It's not so much the server software itself that matters, but rather the firmware updates that get applied to the Touch. They're always making little tweaks here and there, some of them have backfired. There have been several cases over the years where a new firmware version has degraded sound quality, and it ends up fixed in a subsequent release. Bugs in their firmware can degrade sound quality just as soundcheck's software mods can help.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  21. #141

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    The way we are streaming it and outputting it to a dac I'm not sure I agree 100% about software making a difference. I could see if you were using the SQB w/o an external dac and contolling the audio via the remote, but then again I am not software guru so I am not 100% qualified to comment accurately. I know I keep updating when prompted and I haven't noticed any degredation in sound in all the time I've had it.

    I also agree all the tweaking now, while certainly worthwile, may not reap any rewards until the power supply issue is dealt with. It's really that critical, especially since you are so "picky" (your words and not meant to be negative because I am the same way) about the output of the unit.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  22. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Do any of you guys have a DVD/BluRay/CD player also connected where you can A/B to see if we have any observations in common?
    Yes, a ModWright Sony 9100ES. Don't let the tube output fool you, this is closer to SS sounding than a typical tube output. Extremely low distortion, although Roger Sanders when testing it told me I spent thousands to ruin a perfectly good CD player. It would cost me $800 for a digital in mod to my Sony to find out if I get the same results as with popping a CD in.

    I had contacted Dan a while back about me slapping a digital in mod to it like I've seen done with other CD players, but got the 'You see, Timmy' explanation. Fred is another one who ruins easy solutions with pertinent facts. Dan added another clock to his digital in (although it has the uber clock he installed with his mod) and some other stuff which increased the price. Anyway, maybe I compromised a bit in the beginning with convenience overtaking SQ, but that didn't last long. In the end, you will decide if it is good enough for you, and nobody's words or experiences will convince you otherwise.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  23. #143

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    Rich,
    If I had to sum up quickly--the sound is soft and unfocused. The mids almost sound "congested" on complex material; almost the way that overly hot cd's sound (dynamics squashed). A generally "veiled" presentation. The detail is there, just veiled. A rather "blah" overall tonal character.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-18-2011 at 04:35 PM.

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  24. #144

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    Two words: Power Supply.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  25. #145

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Rich,
    If I had to sum up quickly--the sound is soft and unfocused. The mids almost sound "congested" on complex material; almost the way that overly hot cd's sound (dynamics squashed). A generally "veiled" presentation. The detail is there, just veiled. A rather "blah" overall tonal character.
    I know I may have mentioned this before.............but

    http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

    Will get rid of everything you describe.

    No personal experience with this, but generally get high marks

    http://ciaudio.com/products/VDCSB








    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 11-18-2011 at 04:48 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  26. #146

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    Ah-ha, so you guys have had similar performance! LOL, dammit I knew my ears weren't broken.

    You all are just testing me huh? (Let's see if Steve says the stock SQ is awesome...hehe). Bastads. Alright, alright I have assimilated the secret handshake; initiation complete, the pleeb is accepted, thank you sir may I have another?----I get it. LOL
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-18-2011 at 05:04 PM.

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  27. #147

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    No. You haven't been paddled yet.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  28. #148

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    Steve, I never really found the SQB lacking all that much with the walwart, that is until I compared it with a proper linear power supply. But much of what you mentioned was improved, although I'm not sure it was initially as lacking and "dull" as you seem to hear. But all this is really premature until you get some serious hours on it and see if your impression changes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  29. #149

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    EUREKA!
    On a hunch, I deleted and reloaded Logitech Media Server. We're golden. I don't know if I screwed up a setting, misconfigured something, etc; but now we're rocking as expected. I did a quick a/b with a couple CD's I had ripped, and I'm struggling to hear any differences.

    There we go.....

    I don't know what I did, and I was trying to be somewhat diplomatic---but this thing sounded like ass. Maybe I was streaming flac as mp3 or something. At any rate, I'm feeling much better about this purchase. Had you suckers scared huh?
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-18-2011 at 06:43 PM.

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  30. #150

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    So you need to buy an additional PS to reap the benefits of this device? My gosh... $300 for the SQB and $200+ US for the power supply.... WOW... with taxes and shipping... its apparent that listening to music is to much money. No wonder us poor people stick to the crap we have to listen to our tunes.

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