Are receivers getting worse over time?

[aarons915]

I've been looking recently at upgrading my HK525 and have been noticing newer receivers, even current Harman Kardons are much lighter in weight, the 525 is 44 lbs and most newer ones are 28-32 lbs. Basically I'm wondering if newer receivers are achieving this through newer technology or if they are skimping on the quality to cram in more and more features. Any insight would be appreciated, I just don't want my upgrade to be a downgrade in sound.

[jbooker82]

I would say more for less. Newer class d amplifier technology has greatly lightend the weight up. No more huge heat sinks.

[cnh]

Although weight isn't everything, there is definitely a trend of the kind you refer to that is apparent with many manufacturers.

I would suggest that you look at the more "expensive" AVRs because those are still fairly heavy. Pioneer Elites (ICE) tip in at 40+ pounds, Onkyo 3009/5009 come in over 55 lbs. Yamahas upper lines are about 40 lbs....and so on.

So, if you want to pay 1500 or more MSRP. You can still have somewhat decent build quality. Below that, a lot seems to be on some kind of Chinese diet? lol

And although ICE (D) amps are technically lighter--those Pioneers are still pretty beastly!

Recently I've compared some Denons (I have a 2807 that weights about 31 lbs and has thick aluminum heat sinks and a decent power supply--the newer version of this Denon has none of that and is several pounds lighter).

cnh

[inspiredsports]

Ohms Law and the Periodic Table of Elements still prevail.

You can't physically move high current through a lightweight amplifier section.

[mantis]

More features , same price = less quality overall. I have noticed this as well. Just look at the current lineup of blu ray players and compare them to a few years ago DVD players.

[inspiredsports]

More features , same price = less quality overall. I have noticed this as well. Just look at the current lineup of blu ray players and compare them to a few years ago DVD players.

Receivers are different animals than BDP and DVD as I have it on good authority that discs will be discontinued by 2014.

[Face]

There is no direct correlation between amp weight and sound quality. There are just as many lightweight amps that sound good as heavyweights that sound poor.

[inspiredsports]

There is no direct correlation between amp weight and sound quality. There are just as many lightweight amps that sound good as heavyweights that sound poor.

That may be true for small easy to drive speakers systems, but I don't buy that lightweight amps can drive large speakers or difficult loads to reference levels.

[Face]

That may be true for small easy to drive speakers systems, but I don't buy that lightweight amps can drive large speakers or difficult loads to reference levels.

You haven't heard enough or the right lightweight amp then. Check out W4S and Bel Canto's latest amps, best bass control I've heard bar none.

[mhardy6647]

[gldnmh]

Im still running my 35+ year old CR 840 Yamaha

[mhardy6647]

There is no direct correlation between amp weight and sound quality. There are just as many lightweight amps that sound good as heavyweights that sound poor.

This is quite true, at least in principle. Most of the mass is in the power supply in a 120VAC/60 Hz (or 220VAC/50 Hz) amplifier or receiver. There are two ways to make much lighter, but still high performance, power supplies - 1) use higher frequency AC mains (the US military, in the good ol' days, used 400 Hz AC) or 2) go to a switching-type power supply (which essentially does the same thing, regenerating high-frequency AC from the 50 or 60 Hz mains).

OK, someone will invoke heat sinks as the other major source of (relevant) mass... yeah, absolutely true in a Class A or Class AB power amplifier. Modern "digital" power amplifiers (e.g., Tripath "Class T") do not need massive heat sinks... and they do/can sound pretty good.

[ibewbrother]

In my opinion, just about everything now is made to be obsolete in 10 years.(there's an acronym for it, but I can't remember it). My TFM-45 was made in 1990... I had to change the meter lamps and fix an input solder joint.. but it still works fine. My a753x was made around 1994 and meter lamps are still good. Bob Carver himself said that tubes should be good for 50 years.

My point is....as much as I like my Onk 807... it is a toaster that I want to be rid of... and would put a good bet that if I weren't running 5 channels of external amps.. it would have blown already. And MSRP on it was $1100

[Face]

In my opinion, just about everything now is made to be obsolete in 10 years.(there's an acronym for it, but I can't remember it).

Planned obsolescence.

[tonyb]

Planned obsolescence.

Not really big news either. Just about any major appliance, even small ones aren't made to last outside of 10 years. Cars too. Any repair guy will confirm that.That said, given the rate of which technology changes today, who keeps a receiver for 10 years anymore ? A TV ? The next level of HD will come out and render all others obsolete overnight and all connecting gear on top of that. Haven't we seen that already with all the versions of HDMI.....1080i-1080p, dvd-bdp ?

It's simply not cost effective to build a monster receiver with all quality parts anymore. Not saying they don't exist, but for the niche market of folks willing to plunk down 3-5 grand for a well built receiver. The higher end buyer is getting smaller, so if you market to the masses of the middle, your profit margin is going to be better. Most audio and video manufacturers know this, including Polk.

[Face]

Here you go Tony and all.

[tonyb]

Thats a whole nutha can of worms Face. Boundless consumption. You can argue either side of that. I do however like the part on Apples IPOD batteries.

[mhardy6647]

Planned obsolescence.

I so don't have that problem :-) One could buy new production 2A3s in 1940... one can buy them today. The single-ended vacuum tube amplifiers (e.g.) may yet meet their demise at the hands of the green revolution, but, so far, so good.

Plus they can be quite attractive in the dark.

[Syndil]

You could always go to separates. My Adcom GFA-6000 5-channel amplifier weighs nearly 32 lbs, and it's just an amp. I've paired it with many differing preamps throughout the years. IMO the best bang-for-your-buck route is to get a used pre/pro that lacks HDMI inputs and pair it with a used multi-channel amp. I let my TV handle the HDMI switching and run digital cables to the pre/pro for multi-channel decoding. For formats that are supported only via HDMI (TrueHD, Master Audio), I plan to get an Oppo BD/SACD player with on-board decoding and 7.1 analog outputs. Not a priority at the moment, however. I'll jump when I find one at a decent enough bargain price.

[VR3]

Thats what I like about my 2 channel... its "stereo" ;)

As far as receivers getting crappy? Get the cheapest receiver you can find with all of the features you need and get some nice amps and call it a day I say!

[SDA1C]

Yes!






















Fine for heiney cause he is so thinking ?"how many posts does 1C have " lol




I think the new "anything" is getting cheaper. It seems the populous is all about vanity and not enough about performance. My .02

[cnh]

Here you go Tony and all.

Though I am familiar with this history, this is a nice video.

Thanks Mike!

cnh

[MrGlobe]

I think the general 'lightening' of receivers has more to do with the materials used to construct them than anything else. Old receivers were almost completely metal and wood, new receivers use plastic, alloys, etc. Additionally, older receivers typically have large tuner sections because people used to listen to radio, and station signals were weak. Companies don't need large tuner sections, they don't need phono sections, they don't need as many video/audio inputs because of HDMI/Digital connections. On an old, large receiver you needed to have actual metal buttons/pots for the Bass/Treb/Balance/Loudness/Speaker selection/Etc where on newer receivers all of these functions are taken care of with a large LCD screen and a UI.

I think large receivers have been shrinking at the same pace as floorstanding speakers. No longer are store shelves filled with 15" 3-way 101db sensitive towers, instead we have slim towers made to be used with a subwoofer. We are currently in the era of the HTIB, very few people want to find a place to put such a large and heavy receiver.

[Syndil]

They adage "they don't make them like they used to" gets proven time and time again. Good reason to buy used. Newer absolutely does not always equal better.

[Joe08867]

They adage "they don't make them like they used to" gets proven time and time again. Good reason to buy used. Newer absolutely does not always equal better.

Amen.