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  1. #1

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    Default Krell KAV-250A Power Amp

    Anybody have any experience with this amp? How would it compare to my Parasound HCA-2200mkii? I'm looking for a step up, not a lateral move.

    Thanks for any thoughts!


    Ben
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  2. #2

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    FYI, both amps are rated at 250 WPC into 8 ohms, but the Krell supposedly truly doubles up to 500 WPC into 4 ohms, whereas the Parasound only makes 385 into 4 ohms.

    I don't feel like I need more power, but I remember reading somewhere that an amp being able to double-up into half the ohms is an indication of good, err, stuff, or something like that.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  3. #3

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    I have been looking up krell amps and considering the cost the krell should in theory smoke the parasound because of the high quality parts inside otherwise no one would pay a premium for the krell

    I was looking 400 integrated and noticed from reading that it was 200 wpc and doubled into 4 ohms at 400 .Krell mislead the specs because it was actually higher than 200wpc but they wanted audiophiles to see that it doubled because its a good indication of a balanced design

  4. #4
    Audiophile
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    Saying as that company named itself based on the high power alien technology from "Forbidden Planet", I say yes.

  5. #5

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    Sometimes ratings are skewed, to imply doubling of power, don't know about the Krell. I have an older amp rated 200@8 ohms and 400@4 ohms. When Stereo Review tested it, it actually put out something like 265 watts@8 ohms, and just over 400@4 ohms. So it doesn't really double the power. Not that it matters, it has more than enough.

    I did look for a review of that Krell, and I came across this:

    http://www.cepro.com/article/krell_r..._4_amplifiers/

    So I would make sure it's been updated with the correct fuses if you get it.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingo View Post
    Saying as that company named itself based on the high power alien technology from "Forbidden Planet", I say yes.
    Good point, Jake.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Sometimes ratings are skewed, to imply doubling of power, don't know about the Krell. I have an older amp rated 200@8 ohms and 400@4 ohms. When Stereo Review tested it, it actually put out something like 265 watts@8 ohms, and just over 400@4 ohms. So it doesn't really double the power. Not that it matters, it has more than enough.

    I did look for a review of that Krell, and I came across this:

    http://www.cepro.com/article/krell_r..._4_amplifiers/

    So I would make sure it's been updated with the correct fuses if you get it.
    Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  8. #8

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    Your Parasound is on the warm side of neutral, the Krell will be more so on the bright, forward side but a tad more dynamic.

  9. #9

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    I had that very amp & it was great!! I never got the feeling of it being bright but very dynamic which might give off that impression. It was dead on with the signal that it was fed...it simply pumped out gobs of sonic bliss. Krell has the reputation of being forward but that's probably because other amps in comparison just didn't have the same balls & ability of really bring it. If I was going to an amp fight I'd be bringing a Krell as my gun, the other amps would be akin to bring a lowly knife...not a fair fight. I probably shouldn't have let it go but I switched directions & went with my present Rotel multi-channel amp. I would highty recommend the Krell!!!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
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    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    I had that very amp & it was great!! I never got the feeling of it being bright but very dynamic which might give off that impression. It was dead on with the signal that it was fed...it simply pumped out gobs of sonic bliss. Krell has the reputation of being forward but that's probably because other amps in comparison just didn't have the same balls & ability of really bring it. If I was going to an amp fight I'd be bringing a Krell as my gun, the other amps would be akin to bring a lowly knife...not a fair fight. I probably shouldn't have let it go but I switched directions & went with my present Rotel multi-channel amp. I would highty recommend the Krell!!!
    hmm. Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

    What speakers were you running on that Krell?
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  11. #11

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    AAD 2001 Monitors. Pretty hard to drive & the Krell was always on easy street.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
    Panny 65" 3D Plasma
    Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A3010 AVR
    D>SONIC M2-600M mono's / mains
    Rotel RMB-1095 / 5 channel amp
    Rotel RMB-1075 / 5 channel amp
    TEAC UD - 501 DAC
    Oppo BDP-93
    SONOS System
    KEF Q900 / mains
    KEF Q600 / center
    KEF Q800 / surrounds
    KEF Q100 / rear surr.
    Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 / front & rear presence
    Velodyne SPL-1200R subs / dual pair
    DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 sub EQ
    Equitech Balanced Power Son of Q 1.5R
    Extensive room treatments

  12. #12

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    hmmm...


    I'm trying to think if the KAV series is the one that should have the caps replaced or not. Service on them is not cheap so check into the age of the unit.

    I know there was a discussion on Audiogon about some of the older Krells being priced high still even when they were needing to be gone thru which can add up quick when done. I thought it was the KAV line but I might be mistaken.

    Either way a lot of the Krells I've heard tend to have very good bass response on them and are a bit brighter in sound. However they have gobs of power and can drive anything for the most part.
    2 Channel-
    Soundlab M3PX
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  13. #13

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    What's the RMS current for each of the amps?


    Here are the spec for the Parasound HCA-2200mkii:

    Continuous Power Output - Stereo
    250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 8 Ω
    385 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 4 Ω
    385 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 2 Ω
    Continuous Power Output - Mono
    750 watts RMS, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 8 Ω
    1000 watts RMS, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 4 Ω
    Current Capacity
    50 amperes continuous
    90 amperes peak
    Slew Rate
    >135 V/?second
    Frequency Response
    2 Hz-95 kHz, +0/-1.5 dB
    Total Harmonic Distortion
    < 0.05% at full power
    < 0.009% typical levels
    IM Distortion
    < 0.03%
    TIM
    Unmeasureable
    Dynamic Headroom
    > 1.5dB
    lnterchannel Crosstalk
    > 84 dB at 1 kHz
    > 74 dB at 20 kHz
    Input Impedance
    100K Ω/RCA-unbalanced, 200K Ω/XLR-balanced
    S/N Ratio
    > 114 dB, input shorted, IHF A weighted
    Damping Factor
    > 1000 at 20 Hz
    Dimensions
    19" wide x 7" high x 15" deep
    Weight
    60 lbs. net
    AC Power Requirements
    1000 watts




    Here's the info I can find on the Krell:

    SPECS FREQUENCY RESPONSE 20Hz - 20KHz +0.0, -0.1dB .4Hz - 170KHz +0.0, -3.0dB-----
    SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO -118dB "A" weighted-----
    DISTORTION 1KHz 0.06% THD 20KHz 0.25% THD GAIN 26.4dB-----
    INPUT SENSITIVITY 2.15vRMS-----
    INPUT IMPENDENCE 100K ohms-----
    OUTPUT VOLTAGE Peak to peak 138 V RMS 49 V-----
    OUTPUT POWER, each channel driven 8 ohms 1000 W (bridged) 8 ohms 250 W 4 ohms 500 W-----
    POWER CONSUMPTION Idle 210 W Max. 1850 W
    Last edited by Lasareath; 12-18-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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  14. #14

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    I've got a Krell KAV-2250 with my SDA-1C's and it just rocks. Krell amps kick ass.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    I don't feel like I need more power, but I remember reading somewhere that an amp being able to double-up into half the ohms is an indication of good, err, stuff, or something like that.
    Yes and no depending on topology. Just don't get too wrapped around the axel about power ratings, or specs in general. I'd look more into sonic characteristics, as each amp will have it's own sound. Krell and Parasound will have different sonics which have very little if anything to do with 8 ohm and 4 ohm ratings.

    In a nutshell, the 4 and 8 ohm ratings aren't going to be where the major differences are.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  16. #16

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    I think you should buy the Krell and PM me about buying your HCA-2200 MK II after the 1st when you make this all happen .
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    I think you should buy the Krell and PM me about buying your HCA-2200 MK II after the 1st when you make this all happen .
    Well, you're half right. I'm picking up the Krell tonight... but I'm keeping the Parasound!

    My primary 2-channel rig used to be all Parasound, and I've been slowly but surely upgrading each piece. After this amp and a new CDP that's on the way, I will have replaced everything, so I'll have an all Parasound secondary rig.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Yes and no depending on topology. Just don't get too wrapped around the axel about power ratings, or specs in general. I'd look more into sonic characteristics, as each amp will have it's own sound. Krell and Parasound will have different sonics which have very little if anything to do with 8 ohm and 4 ohm ratings.

    In a nutshell, the 4 and 8 ohm ratings aren't going to be where the major differences are.

    H9
    I hear ya. I'll be doing some A/B'ing starting tonight for the next couple weeks.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Well, you're half right. I'm picking up the Krell tonight... but I'm keeping the Parasound!
    Excellent, I always like to be able to keep what I am using when I decide to do a change. The Krell will certainly sound different than the Parasound. So doing some comparisons after the parasound has been out of the main rack for a while might be interesting. You have to have stuff to try stuff!!!

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  20. #20

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    I don't know those Ushers, but I prefer those Maggies with the parasound setup.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeltrouble1 View Post
    ...You have to have stuff to try stuff!!!

    RT1
    You said it, man. Reviews are nice, recommendations are cool too, but you gotta get your ears on stuff... in your setup. There is no substitution. This is pretty easy to do with used gear; you just have to know the market and have the patience to wait on a good deal, that way you basically get to try stuff for free. I did that with a few DAC's six months ago. I think I ended up out about 40 bucks between all three DAC's, but the experience was invaluable. Truly invaluable.

    So, the Krell stuff is in the house. Oh, I had to get a KAV-250P too, cuz the woman wouldn't break it up, but it was too good of a deal to pass up. I wasn't even in the market for a power amp. I don't think this Krell is a keeper, but it will be the perfect stepping stone to the Bryston 4BSST I want, plus I get to free up the HCA-2200mkii for that secondary rig. Win, mother-effin win.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Well, you're half right. I'm picking up the Krell tonight... but I'm keeping the Parasound!

    My primary 2-channel rig used to be all Parasound, and I've been slowly but surely upgrading each piece. After this amp and a new CDP that's on the way, I will have replaced everything, so I'll have an all Parasound secondary rig.
    No problem, but please keep me in mind if you ever do decide to let it go. That MK II is primo!
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    No problem, but please keep me in mind if you ever do decide to let it go. That MK II is primo!
    Will do. And you're right. It is a special amp for Parasound; that's why I'm not convinced that I'll like the Krell more.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

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    Some pics for all you audio pornaholics:

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    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  25. #25

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    Well, the Krell definitely sounds different. I'll post a brief comparison review when I get home this evening.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  26. #26

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    I look forward to another great comparison from you

  27. #27

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    I need more time before an in-depth write up, but here's a quick first impression:

    One word: dynamic. I wouldn't call the Krell bright at all; I'd call it detailed... extremely detailed... unforgivingly detailed. The bass response is more extended and punchy, very nice. The highs are more clear, but not bright.

    I think both amps are pretty flat across the spectrum, but the Parasound is smooth whereas the Krell is articulate.

    Any problems upstream will be out front for all to hear, that's for sure, but feed it a good signal and you'll be rewarded. Example: when I hooked up the Krell KAV-250P preamp, the combo was too bright. It didn't sound like music anymore; it sounded a little harsh. When I switched back to the LS-15... BOOM! Match made in heaven. I think this power amp really benefits from a tubed preamp.

    Based on this KAV-250A and KAV-250P, I can see why someone would find an all-Krell setup to be bright or harsh, but the fault is not with the amp. Give it a good signal and prepare to be dazzled.

    I actually had a hard time doing critical listening because I found myself so involved in the music. That's a very good sign.


    BTW I've only ran the Krell on my Magnepan 3.6's so far; I still need to try it out on the Ushers... actually, I still need to do a write up on the Ushers... I don't think I've really mentioned them yet... they're in maple.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  28. #28

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    Back that baby up with a killer tube Pre and you will be rockin.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by nspindel View Post
    Back that baby up with a killer tube Pre and you will be rockin.
    I'm already there, man! ARC LS-15: (4) 6922's (Holland-made Bugle Boys from '64, Holland-made Amperex Orange Globes from '68, and my favs, Amperex White Label PQ's from '61)
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  30. #30

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    Nice! Mine is a combo balanced pre-amp and headphone amp that just plays real nice with the Krell. That combo plus the restored 1C's absolutely kicks ass.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

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