Making acoustic panels and other general room treatment questions

[quadzilla]

After all upgrades over the last year, I'm at a point where the room is definitely the limiting factor. So now it's time to start room treatments. I found plans for acoustic panels over at http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...o-or/?ALLSTEPS. These look like they'll produce some fairly pro-ish panels. Does anyone have better instructions? That they'll share, that is?

Now, as to the treatment itself, my room layout is about 15.5Wx18.5Dx8H. Not ideal, I know. But it's probably the best room for audio in the house, so it'll have to do. The front, back, and one side wall is paneling over sheet rock, which will eventually be just sheet rock when I finally stop buying stereo stuff and start remodeling (haHA). The other side is a fireplace (brick) next to a sliding glass door. The door has a fairly heavy curtain over it. The back wall also has a 6x6 bookshelf filled with records, so I expect that should act somewhat as a diffuser. The back wall also has a large 7x7 door opening into the rest of the house.

That said, my initial plan is to build a total of 11 panels. Panels will be mounted 3 on the front wall behind the speakers, and 4 along each side wall at the first and second reflection points. Bass traps will come later.

The other question is whether to go with 3# or 6# for the panels initially, given the liveliness of the walls. Anyone have any input on this? I'm thinking 3# should be fine, and 6# might damp too much, but should be perfect for the bass traps.

The other option that I'm considering is rotating everything 90 degrees, putting the patio door and fireplace behind me, but I' probably have to move the book shelves to what would then be the back wall. I'm sure some will say that with my 2.3 TLs, I should have them on the long wall, and that's something I expect to play with some day. I just rather like how they sound now, and I'm sitting about 12" back from them. So the concern there is that if I rotate the room, I'll only have about a foot behind me which might make the reflection off the (now) back wall too strong to easily control.

Anyone have any input on these assumptions, or have I missed anything?

[inspiredsports]

You are now implementing one of the most important tweaks available.

If you are installing 11 (second reflection points, ceiling) you have these 8 important positions covered:
-- One behind each speaker (6" is best)
-- One in each corner (6" or triangular is best)
-- One on back wall directly behind your listening position (6" is best)
-- One one on left and right walls at first reflection point (3" is good)

You should research the insulation requirements for bass trapping and reflection point absorption as they are slightly different.

gikacoustics.com and realtraps.com are good resources and good panels if you decide to buy already finished.

NOTE: Every tweak and swap you've made up to this point is now subject to review as you were making those tweaks and swaps to a colored listening space that will now be more neutral and realistic.

[SDA1C]

A couple articles that might be interesting to you.

http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

http://www.decware.com/achowto.htm

http://www.decware.com/acroom.htm

http://www.decware.com/newsite/room.html

I have spent countless hours reading on this site. I hope you find it as informative as I do.

1C

[inspiredsports]

Good articles.

Along those lines, and scaled down to house depth, the design of the EJ Thomas Performing Arts Hall in Akron would be hard to beat.

It's basically triangular, but with rounded corners, rounded baffles and tons of acoustic panels.

I can listen to genres that I hate in that place with a smile on my face.

[Conradicles]

Sweet Arts Hall...

[PSOVLSK]

pm Tracy (thsmith). He made some that are nice and I believe he said they were fairly easy to do as well as being economical.

[thsmith]

Bought OC 705 from SPI 11232 Leo Lane Dallas USA, TX 75229 (214) 956-7781, $15 for 2'x4'x2" panel. Bought fabric that I liked and had wife make covers for them.

Easy peasy.

Rob, you have been to Davids and seen his, wife made his covers a well.

I use a 2" alum L bracket about 6 inches long for it to sit on and hoop in back towards top for mounting. Have a 2" air gap between panal and wall.

[pepster]

There is a TON of video's for both DIY and placement on YouTube.

[CoolJazz]

I'm with Mr. Smith! Owens Corning is the stuff! By the time you make anything look good enough to hang in a room, you might as well just the get what is the basis for doing it the best it can be (when it's affordable) and in this case it is!

The professional panels (not the cheapy ones) use OC and so should you...as it's affordable. If you can find single pieces. then great! But you don't get 703 or 705 at the big box hardware stores and I couldn't find any source local, even going through builder type places. So turning to the web, you can order a box for about the same price several places and it's not all that much. A box of 6 2" thick, 2 foot by 4 foot panels, was somewhere around $125 delivered a couple years ago. I ordered two boxes and didn't use all of them yet.

Spacing panels away from the wall increases the good they do. So plan a way to support away a couple inches, as Mr. Smith has done, and you're right there with the best it can be! It's a question after that of looks. I framed mine to have nice edges and that took time and planning. Then you can buy specific fabric from some of the sound supply places or just go down to a fabric place and get your wife to get what color she'll approve, which is a heck of a good idea anyway! Best fabric there is an open weave like a burlap. I layed the fabric out flat and even on a table and ran an iron across is briefly to get wrinkles out. Cut it to fit around and used a hot melt glue gun to attach it. The corners are the hardest to get to look decent. Otherwise, not to bad to do. For best looks, devise a way for it to stretch and keep it nice and tight! Folks visiting my room think mine are professionally done.

Without trying to figure out your room, I'd say your count might be higher than you'd need if you use OC. You do not want to over deaden a room and suck all life out of it! Make a few and see how you like it and work your way up until you think it's enough. You could make a second round with a complimenting fabric color, if that works in your room, to help keep it from being all too much of one thing by having a whole lot of one fabric.

You'll never regret the effectiveness of the money or the time...if you do it well the first time! Good luck with it!

CJ

[pepster]

Each room is different, trust me.
Really no set standards, only good starting points.
I have over damped more rooms than you can count.
Its give a little, take a little away.
Tweak it to YOUR ear.
Really super easy, and as others have said, "best money you ever spent on your system"

[mufsoman]

How about rock wool (such as Roxul) vs. the OC 703 or 705? Any comparison experience?

[FTGV]

Yes Roxul mineral wool is a suitable substitude and is what I used because the OC703,705 were not readily available in my area.

[quadzilla]

Thanks guys

[pepster]

#1 I would start where the walls meet the ceiling and where walls meet wall.
#2 Move your speakers in and out from the walls they are on now, to a point they sound the best.
#3 Dampen behind speakers.
#4 Repeat step #2

You will know it when you hear it!

[Lasareath]

I was going to make my own but I decided it was easier to buy them.

When I bought mine these were $56 each shipped: http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--AT...8x4--1008.html

[Face]

For monopoles, absorb behind the speakers, diffuse behind the listener. The opposite for open baffle/di/bipoles. As for the first reflection point, I prefer absorption, but others prefer diffusion.

[Mike Reeter]

I just received a box of 6-2"x4'x2' insulation panels,they have many to choose from, and some heavy cloth material from http://www.atsacoustics.com/ fast shipping and decent prices. Going to get started next week.

[Joe08867]

I built my own for my 2ch room. I preferred the ability to get the exact color I wanted.

They aren't hard to build. Someone on here built some dipole panels and I actually used the same method. Not hard to do.

I use absorption curtains on the back wall and the dipoles on the sides at the main reflection points on the sides. Made the biggest difference in my system.

[thsmith]

For OC 703 and 705 locally in most big cities/towns google SPI insulation.

http://www.spi-co.com/

Alabama Atlanta, GA (Insulation) 770-454-9643
Norcross, GA (GSD) 770-449-7726
Alaska Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
Arizona Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Arkansas Tulsa, OK 918-628-1010
California Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Canada Burnaby, Canada, BC 604-430-3044
Calgary, Canada, AB 403-720-6255
Edmonton, Canada, AB 780-452-4966
Caribbean Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Colorado Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Connecticut Stratford, CT 203-375-6650
Delaware Camden, NJ 856-966-1105
Export
(Outside the United States) Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Florida Ft. Myers, FL 239-931-0364
Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
Jacksonville, FL 904-786-9800
Orlando, FL 407-843-5647
Pompano Beach, FL 954-970-7371
Riviera Beach, FL 561-840-7793
Tampa, FL (Insulation) 813-621-5371
Tampa, FL (Architectural) 813-623-3511
Georgia Atlanta, GA (Insulation) 770-454-9643
Norcross, GA (GSD) 770-449-7726
Augusta, GA 706-722-2020
Savannah, GA 912-233-5774
Hawaii Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
Kennewick, WA 509-585-8885
Idaho Meridian, ID 208-887-9955
Illinois
-Northern Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
-Southern Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
Indiana Indianapolis, IN 317-780-6135
Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
International Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Iowa Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
Kansas El Dorado, KS 316-452-5652
Kansas City, MO 816-842-4900
Kentucky Louisville, KY 502-964-2531
Lexington, KY 859-269-6668
-Northern Tip West Chester, OH 513-870-9499
-Southeast Corner Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
-Northeast Corner Winfield, WV 304-757-2655
Louisiana
-Northern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
-Southern Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Maine Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
Maryland Landover, MD 301-322-1560
Massachusetts Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
Mexico Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Michigan Perrysburg, OH 419-661-8877
Minnesota Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
Mississippi Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Missouri Kansas City, MO 816-842-4900
Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
Montana Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Nebraska Omaha, NE 402-827-3880
Nevada Salt Lake City, UT 801-974-7684
New Hampshire Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
New Jersey
-Northern Carteret, NJ 732-969-2598
-Southern Camden, NJ 856-966-1105
New Mexico
-Northern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
-Southern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
New York Rochester, NY 585-328-2590
Syracuse, NY (Insulation) 315-474-5190
Syracuse, NY (Fabrication) 315-463-5144
North Carolina Charlotte, NC (Insulation) 704-598-9899
Midland, NC (Fabrication) 704-888-4937
Greensboro, NC 336-691-0008
Raleigh, NC 919-828-7102
Wilmington, NC 910-799-8444
North Dakota Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Ohio West Chester, OH 513-870-9499
Perrysburg, OH 419-661-8877
Oklahoma Tulsa, OK 918-628-1010
Oregon Portland, OR (Insulation/Fabrication) 503-282-3275
Portland, OR (Architectural) 503-935-5886
Medford, OR (Insulation/Architectural) 541-245-3284
Pennsylvania Hummelstown, PA 717-566-4186
East Petersburg, PA (Headquarters) 800-788-7764
Lancaster, PA 717-581-0650
Oaks, PA 610-666-1205
Pittsburgh, PA 412-490-0601
Wilkes Barre, PA 570-829-6525
Rhode Island Pawtucket, RI 401-722-9687
Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
Carteret, NJ 732-969-2598
South Carolina Hanahan, SC 843-747-9713
South Dakota Denver, CO 303-333-6784
Tennessee Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
Texas Austin, TX 512-326-3772
Beaumont, TX 409-835-0734
Corpus Christi, TX 361-299-2221
Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
Haltom City, TX 817-831-4501
Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
Richwood, TX 979-266-8991
San Antonio, TX 210-804-0119
Seguin, TX (Fabrication) 830-372-1500
Utah Salt Lake City, UT 801-974-7684
Vermont Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
Virginia
-Northern Lancaster, PA 717-581-0650
-Southern Greensboro, NC 336-691-0008
-Western Corner Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
Washington Auburn, WA 253-856-3073
Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
Kennewick, WA 509-585-8885
Washington D.C. Landover, MD 301-322-1560
West Virginia Winfield, WV 304-265-8916
-Northeast Corner Pittsburgh, PA 412-490-0601
Wisconsin Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
Wyoming Casper, WY 307-265-8916
Denver, CO 303-333-6784

[Mike Reeter]

Somebody has done their homework! Great list...I purchased online as I live in the middle of nowhere.

[Toolfan66]

I can not find 4" thick OC705 I can get 2" but they are faced. It almost seems like it would be cheaper just ordering from GIK..

[thsmith]

I can not find 4" thick OC705 I can get 2" but they are faced. It almost seems like it would be cheaper just ordering from GIK..

Not sure what you mean by faced, when I bought mine the front and back are exactly the same and could stack 2 for 4".

Also, SPI will order ewhatever you need in thickness.

[nspindel]

gikacoustics.com and realtraps.com are good resources and good panels if you decide to buy already finished.

I have a room full of gikacoustics traps, and I can't even begin to put into words what a great difference they made. I corner traps in each of the 4 corners, and 2 panels behind my listening position and two on each side.

[Toolfan66]

I just ordered the Room Kit Pkg1 from GIK Acoustics.

[nspindel]

Nice, you'll be very happy. My music room is small, very small. Small, but it's mine. It's about 12'x12', with 7' ceilings. But it's a drop ceiling with a very course tile that isn't reflective at all. The floor is carpet. But without those gik's, it was really bad for trying to listen seriously to music. Sound was just bouncing everywhere. Gaara helped me get the GIK's set up in there, and it's been joy ever since. 1C's image beautifully in there, with nice tight bass. All the boomy reverberation is gone.

[Toolfan66]

Thanks!! I have 10 panels that I got on the cheap 24 x 48 2" thick and they made a big difference and I have been wanting to try the GIK's for some time now and this thread just pushed me harder to pull the trigger. So with the GIK's and what I have I will be able to add a few more panels in the HT room. Of course all the GIK's stay in the 2 channel..

[SCompRacer]

For monopoles, absorb behind the speakers, diffuse behind the listener. The opposite for open baffle/di/bipoles. As for the first reflection point, I prefer absorption, but others prefer diffusion.

I like to absorb behind my dipoles. It narrows the sweet spot but I like how it sharpens the focus.

Love my GIK acoustic treatments. With the Guilford Of Maine Fabrics, you can match any decor.

[Lasareath]

I don't understand the term Bass Blocker. I don't want to Block the Bass, I want to feel the Bass. Can anybody explain this to me?

[inspiredsports]

I don't understand the term Bass Blocker. I don't want to Block the Bass, I want to feel the Bass. Can anybody explain this to me?

Bass traps do not reduce the db level or pressure level of the bass. You just get it directly from the drivers/passives in the room without pressure building up in the wrong places and distorting things.

[nspindel]

Sal, you want to hear the bass from the speakers. You don't want to hear it bouncing off the walls. You're not reducing the bass by using the traps, you're tightening and focussing it.