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  1. #1

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    Default Making acoustic panels and other general room treatment questions

    After all upgrades over the last year, I'm at a point where the room is definitely the limiting factor. So now it's time to start room treatments. I found plans for acoustic panels over at http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...o-or/?ALLSTEPS. These look like they'll produce some fairly pro-ish panels. Does anyone have better instructions? That they'll share, that is?

    Now, as to the treatment itself, my room layout is about 15.5Wx18.5Dx8H. Not ideal, I know. But it's probably the best room for audio in the house, so it'll have to do. The front, back, and one side wall is paneling over sheet rock, which will eventually be just sheet rock when I finally stop buying stereo stuff and start remodeling (haHA). The other side is a fireplace (brick) next to a sliding glass door. The door has a fairly heavy curtain over it. The back wall also has a 6x6 bookshelf filled with records, so I expect that should act somewhat as a diffuser. The back wall also has a large 7x7 door opening into the rest of the house.

    That said, my initial plan is to build a total of 11 panels. Panels will be mounted 3 on the front wall behind the speakers, and 4 along each side wall at the first and second reflection points. Bass traps will come later.

    The other question is whether to go with 3# or 6# for the panels initially, given the liveliness of the walls. Anyone have any input on this? I'm thinking 3# should be fine, and 6# might damp too much, but should be perfect for the bass traps.

    The other option that I'm considering is rotating everything 90 degrees, putting the patio door and fireplace behind me, but I' probably have to move the book shelves to what would then be the back wall. I'm sure some will say that with my 2.3 TLs, I should have them on the long wall, and that's something I expect to play with some day. I just rather like how they sound now, and I'm sitting about 12" back from them. So the concern there is that if I rotate the room, I'll only have about a foot behind me which might make the reflection off the (now) back wall too strong to easily control.

    Anyone have any input on these assumptions, or have I missed anything?
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

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  2. #2

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    You are now implementing one of the most important tweaks available.

    If you are installing 11 (second reflection points, ceiling) you have these 8 important positions covered:
    -- One behind each speaker (6" is best)
    -- One in each corner (6" or triangular is best)
    -- One on back wall directly behind your listening position (6" is best)
    -- One one on left and right walls at first reflection point (3" is good)

    You should research the insulation requirements for bass trapping and reflection point absorption as they are slightly different.

    gikacoustics.com and realtraps.com are good resources and good panels if you decide to buy already finished.

    NOTE: Every tweak and swap you've made up to this point is now subject to review as you were making those tweaks and swaps to a colored listening space that will now be more neutral and realistic.
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  3. #3

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    A couple articles that might be interesting to you.

    http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

    http://www.decware.com/achowto.htm

    http://www.decware.com/acroom.htm

    http://www.decware.com/newsite/room.html

    I have spent countless hours reading on this site. I hope you find it as informative as I do.

    1C

  4. #4

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    Good articles.

    Along those lines, and scaled down to house depth, the design of the EJ Thomas Performing Arts Hall in Akron would be hard to beat.

    It's basically triangular, but with rounded corners, rounded baffles and tons of acoustic panels.

    I can listen to genres that I hate in that place with a smile on my face.
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    VTL ST50 w/mods/RCA6L6GC/TlfnknECC801S
    CJPV-5 w/mods
    TT CJ Sonographe SG3 Oak/Sumiko LMT/Grado Wood Plat/Sumiko PIB2/The Clamp
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  5. #5

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    Sweet Arts Hall...

  6. #6

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    pm Tracy (thsmith). He made some that are nice and I believe he said they were fairly easy to do as well as being economical.

  7. #7

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    Bought OC 705 from SPI 11232 Leo Lane Dallas USA, TX 75229 (214) 956-7781, $15 for 2'x4'x2" panel. Bought fabric that I liked and had wife make covers for them.

    Easy peasy.

    Rob, you have been to Davids and seen his, wife made his covers a well.

    I use a 2" alum L bracket about 6 inches long for it to sit on and hoop in back towards top for mounting. Have a 2" air gap between panal and wall.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
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  8. #8
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    There is a TON of video's for both DIY and placement on YouTube.

  9. #9

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    I'm with Mr. Smith! Owens Corning is the stuff! By the time you make anything look good enough to hang in a room, you might as well just the get what is the basis for doing it the best it can be (when it's affordable) and in this case it is!

    The professional panels (not the cheapy ones) use OC and so should you...as it's affordable. If you can find single pieces. then great! But you don't get 703 or 705 at the big box hardware stores and I couldn't find any source local, even going through builder type places. So turning to the web, you can order a box for about the same price several places and it's not all that much. A box of 6 2" thick, 2 foot by 4 foot panels, was somewhere around $125 delivered a couple years ago. I ordered two boxes and didn't use all of them yet.

    Spacing panels away from the wall increases the good they do. So plan a way to support away a couple inches, as Mr. Smith has done, and you're right there with the best it can be! It's a question after that of looks. I framed mine to have nice edges and that took time and planning. Then you can buy specific fabric from some of the sound supply places or just go down to a fabric place and get your wife to get what color she'll approve, which is a heck of a good idea anyway! Best fabric there is an open weave like a burlap. I layed the fabric out flat and even on a table and ran an iron across is briefly to get wrinkles out. Cut it to fit around and used a hot melt glue gun to attach it. The corners are the hardest to get to look decent. Otherwise, not to bad to do. For best looks, devise a way for it to stretch and keep it nice and tight! Folks visiting my room think mine are professionally done.

    Without trying to figure out your room, I'd say your count might be higher than you'd need if you use OC. You do not want to over deaden a room and suck all life out of it! Make a few and see how you like it and work your way up until you think it's enough. You could make a second round with a complimenting fabric color, if that works in your room, to help keep it from being all too much of one thing by having a whole lot of one fabric.

    You'll never regret the effectiveness of the money or the time...if you do it well the first time! Good luck with it!

    CJ

  10. #10
    pepster
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    Each room is different, trust me.
    Really no set standards, only good starting points.
    I have over damped more rooms than you can count.
    Its give a little, take a little away.
    Tweak it to YOUR ear.
    Really super easy, and as others have said, "best money you ever spent on your system"

  11. #11

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    How about rock wool (such as Roxul) vs. the OC 703 or 705? Any comparison experience?
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  12. #12

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    Yes Roxul mineral wool is a suitable substitude and is what I used because the OC703,705 were not readily available in my area.

  13. #13

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    Thanks guys
    Are you part of the dirty digital peasants or a member of the great Analog Master Race?

    SDA Recommended Playlist https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZCRkdxYXVNanc

    Open for editing.

  14. #14
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    #1 I would start where the walls meet the ceiling and where walls meet wall.
    #2 Move your speakers in and out from the walls they are on now, to a point they sound the best.
    #3 Dampen behind speakers.
    #4 Repeat step #2

    You will know it when you hear it!
    Last edited by pepster; 01-11-2012 at 11:38 PM.

  15. #15

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    I was going to make my own but I decided it was easier to buy them.

    When I bought mine these were $56 each shipped: http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--AT...8x4--1008.html
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  16. #16

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    For monopoles, absorb behind the speakers, diffuse behind the listener. The opposite for open baffle/di/bipoles. As for the first reflection point, I prefer absorption, but others prefer diffusion.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  17. #17

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    I just received a box of 6-2"x4'x2' insulation panels,they have many to choose from, and some heavy cloth material from http://www.atsacoustics.com/ fast shipping and decent prices. Going to get started next week.
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  18. #18

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    I built my own for my 2ch room. I preferred the ability to get the exact color I wanted.

    They aren't hard to build. Someone on here built some dipole panels and I actually used the same method. Not hard to do.

    I use absorption curtains on the back wall and the dipoles on the sides at the main reflection points on the sides. Made the biggest difference in my system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Smith View Post
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.

  19. #19

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    For OC 703 and 705 locally in most big cities/towns google SPI insulation.

    http://www.spi-co.com/

    Alabama Atlanta, GA (Insulation) 770-454-9643
    Norcross, GA (GSD) 770-449-7726
    Alaska Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
    Arizona Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Arkansas Tulsa, OK 918-628-1010
    California Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Canada Burnaby, Canada, BC 604-430-3044
    Calgary, Canada, AB 403-720-6255
    Edmonton, Canada, AB 780-452-4966
    Caribbean Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Colorado Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Connecticut Stratford, CT 203-375-6650
    Delaware Camden, NJ 856-966-1105
    Export
    (Outside the United States) Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Florida Ft. Myers, FL 239-931-0364
    Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
    Jacksonville, FL 904-786-9800
    Orlando, FL 407-843-5647
    Pompano Beach, FL 954-970-7371
    Riviera Beach, FL 561-840-7793
    Tampa, FL (Insulation) 813-621-5371
    Tampa, FL (Architectural) 813-623-3511
    Georgia Atlanta, GA (Insulation) 770-454-9643
    Norcross, GA (GSD) 770-449-7726
    Augusta, GA 706-722-2020
    Savannah, GA 912-233-5774
    Hawaii Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
    Kennewick, WA 509-585-8885
    Idaho Meridian, ID 208-887-9955
    Illinois
    -Northern Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
    Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
    -Southern Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
    Indiana Indianapolis, IN 317-780-6135
    Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
    International Hialeah Gardens, FL 305-817-1617
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Iowa Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
    Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
    Kansas El Dorado, KS 316-452-5652
    Kansas City, MO 816-842-4900
    Kentucky Louisville, KY 502-964-2531
    Lexington, KY 859-269-6668
    -Northern Tip West Chester, OH 513-870-9499
    -Southeast Corner Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
    Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
    -Northeast Corner Winfield, WV 304-757-2655
    Louisiana
    -Northern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
    -Southern Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
    Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Maine Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
    Maryland Landover, MD 301-322-1560
    Massachusetts Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
    Mexico Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
    Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Michigan Perrysburg, OH 419-661-8877
    Minnesota Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
    Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
    Mississippi Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
    Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Missouri Kansas City, MO 816-842-4900
    Evansville, IN 812-428-6388
    Montana Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Nebraska Omaha, NE 402-827-3880
    Nevada Salt Lake City, UT 801-974-7684
    New Hampshire Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
    New Jersey
    -Northern Carteret, NJ 732-969-2598
    -Southern Camden, NJ 856-966-1105
    New Mexico
    -Northern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
    -Southern Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
    Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
    Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    New York Rochester, NY 585-328-2590
    Syracuse, NY (Insulation) 315-474-5190
    Syracuse, NY (Fabrication) 315-463-5144
    North Carolina Charlotte, NC (Insulation) 704-598-9899
    Midland, NC (Fabrication) 704-888-4937
    Greensboro, NC 336-691-0008
    Raleigh, NC 919-828-7102
    Wilmington, NC 910-799-8444
    North Dakota Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Ohio West Chester, OH 513-870-9499
    Perrysburg, OH 419-661-8877
    Oklahoma Tulsa, OK 918-628-1010
    Oregon Portland, OR (Insulation/Fabrication) 503-282-3275
    Portland, OR (Architectural) 503-935-5886
    Medford, OR (Insulation/Architectural) 541-245-3284
    Pennsylvania Hummelstown, PA 717-566-4186
    East Petersburg, PA (Headquarters) 800-788-7764
    Lancaster, PA 717-581-0650
    Oaks, PA 610-666-1205
    Pittsburgh, PA 412-490-0601
    Wilkes Barre, PA 570-829-6525
    Rhode Island Pawtucket, RI 401-722-9687
    Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
    Carteret, NJ 732-969-2598
    South Carolina Hanahan, SC 843-747-9713
    South Dakota Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Tennessee Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
    Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
    Texas Austin, TX 512-326-3772
    Beaumont, TX 409-835-0734
    Corpus Christi, TX 361-299-2221
    Dallas, TX 214-956-7781
    Haltom City, TX 817-831-4501
    Houston, TX (Insulation) 713-957-2730
    Houston, TX (Architectural) 713-861-3121
    Houston, TX (Insulation/Fabrication) 713-673-6200
    Richwood, TX 979-266-8991
    San Antonio, TX 210-804-0119
    Seguin, TX (Fabrication) 830-372-1500
    Utah Salt Lake City, UT 801-974-7684
    Vermont Auburn, MA 508-792-1133
    Virginia
    -Northern Lancaster, PA 717-581-0650
    -Southern Greensboro, NC 336-691-0008
    -Western Corner Kingsport, TN 423-246-7799
    Nashville, TN 615-227-8870
    Washington Auburn, WA 253-856-3073
    Tukwila, WA 253-872-0800
    Kennewick, WA 509-585-8885
    Washington D.C. Landover, MD 301-322-1560
    West Virginia Winfield, WV 304-265-8916
    -Northeast Corner Pittsburgh, PA 412-490-0601
    Wisconsin Itasca, IL (Insulation/Architectural) 630-773-1200
    Lake Bluff, IL (Fabrication/Architectural) 847-362-0925
    Wyoming Casper, WY 307-265-8916
    Denver, CO 303-333-6784
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
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    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs

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  20. #20

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    Somebody has done their homework! Great list...I purchased online as I live in the middle of nowhere.
    SDA CRS+4.1TL's/Modded SDA 1C's/Modded SDA SRS 3.1 TL's/Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL

  21. #21

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    I can not find 4" thick OC705 I can get 2" but they are faced. It almost seems like it would be cheaper just ordering from GIK..

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolfan66 View Post
    I can not find 4" thick OC705 I can get 2" but they are faced. It almost seems like it would be cheaper just ordering from GIK..
    Not sure what you mean by faced, when I bought mine the front and back are exactly the same and could stack 2 for 4".

    Also, SPI will order ewhatever you need in thickness.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
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    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs

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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    gikacoustics.com and realtraps.com are good resources and good panels if you decide to buy already finished.
    I have a room full of gikacoustics traps, and I can't even begin to put into words what a great difference they made. I corner traps in each of the 4 corners, and 2 panels behind my listening position and two on each side.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  24. #24

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    I just ordered the Room Kit Pkg1 from GIK Acoustics.

  25. #25

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    Nice, you'll be very happy. My music room is small, very small. Small, but it's mine. It's about 12'x12', with 7' ceilings. But it's a drop ceiling with a very course tile that isn't reflective at all. The floor is carpet. But without those gik's, it was really bad for trying to listen seriously to music. Sound was just bouncing everywhere. Gaara helped me get the GIK's set up in there, and it's been joy ever since. 1C's image beautifully in there, with nice tight bass. All the boomy reverberation is gone.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  26. #26

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    Thanks!! I have 10 panels that I got on the cheap 24 x 48 2" thick and they made a big difference and I have been wanting to try the GIK's for some time now and this thread just pushed me harder to pull the trigger. So with the GIK's and what I have I will be able to add a few more panels in the HT room. Of course all the GIK's stay in the 2 channel..

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    For monopoles, absorb behind the speakers, diffuse behind the listener. The opposite for open baffle/di/bipoles. As for the first reflection point, I prefer absorption, but others prefer diffusion.
    I like to absorb behind my dipoles. It narrows the sweet spot but I like how it sharpens the focus.

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    I don't understand the term Bass Blocker. I don't want to Block the Bass, I want to feel the Bass. Can anybody explain this to me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasareath View Post
    I don't understand the term Bass Blocker. I don't want to Block the Bass, I want to feel the Bass. Can anybody explain this to me?
    Bass traps do not reduce the db level or pressure level of the bass. You just get it directly from the drivers/passives in the room without pressure building up in the wrong places and distorting things.
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    Sal, you want to hear the bass from the speakers. You don't want to hear it bouncing off the walls. You're not reducing the bass by using the traps, you're tightening and focussing it.
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