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  1. #1

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    Default Light the torches, sharpen the spears......

    ......haters have new fuel.........a FULL page Bob Carver ad in Stereophile, of all places ! The man has MOXIE !

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    I should be getting my ears on a pair of 180's in the next two weeks.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Okay, I'm officially envious !

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    Cool, that's good news!
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    For anyone interested, Underwood HiFi has a handmade version of Carver's soon-to-be released $1,500 amp for $800. The amp was made by an associate of Bob's who will be assisting in the general production of the full line-up. I guess the amp was a test model.

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    There was a local ad here that had the Cherry 180's listed for sale. The ad seemed a bit strange but I sent off an email only to get a response 2 weeks later saying the guy lived in England but would ship them here upon payment. Silly scam crap. Wanted $1300 for both monoblocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    For anyone interested, Underwood HiFi has a handmade version of Carver's soon-to-be released $1,500 amp for $800. The amp was made by an associate of Bob's who will be assisting in the general production of the full line-up. I guess the amp was a test model.
    What amp is that??

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    Quote Originally Posted by brgman View Post
    What amp is that??
    I'm not sure what the name is yet, but I talked to Walter of UnderwoodHifi a few days ago and he mentioned the amp to see if I was interested. Evidently, a full production model will be available soon. The $800 model is the same sans a few aesthetic changes.

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    Must be a version of the Carverfest tube amp build. Something like 20 wpc.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    Bob's amps ain't got nothin' on these...
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    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


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    Yours are prettier but......


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    It's nice that he refers to himself as a Legend. What a douche.

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    "Sideshow Bob".

    To his credit, he's provided great support to erstwhile customers of his numerous previous endeavors, and he's - by all accounts - really quite approachable and not quite as... idiosyncratic as some of his peers (I am thinking of James "Bongo" Bongiorno as I type this).

    That's said, he's definitely got...
    all the best,
    mrh

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    I wouldn't buy a pencil off some of the folks he aligns himself with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Bob's amps ain't got nothin' on these...
    ....other than his name on the lower left corner.
    Sda2.3 (Tweets, Spikes)
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    I wouldn't buy a pencil off some of the folks he aligns himself with.
    I see your point, there.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    I wouldn't buy a pencil off some of the folks he aligns himself with.
    What's the guy got himself into? He may run his mouth about his designs, but that is not out of the ordinary in this hobby. I'm really curious as to why Bob Carver really peeves some people. Is there some link I could read?

  18. #18

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    I'd say it has to do with a level of arrogance (not with out merit) and some design fundamentals and performance that thus far have not been duplicated at the same cost or cool running temperature. The closest you get under is emo (there is a tie there that you can google) and the closest above is nearly 4 times the price with a few competing for that position. Mostly it's jealousy if you ask me.

    Whether you like him or the drama/political BS associated, his amps rock and there is no denying that no matter what the opposition has to say about it. In large part it could also have to do with not being able to dethrone the man from being one of if not thee best amplifier designer/manufacturer of all time.


    Nutshell....Jealousy.

    p.s. Google is your friend. Try "Sunfire Cinema Grand" and I bet you find what you are looking for.
    Sda2.3 (Tweets, Spikes)
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    What's the guy got himself into? He may run his mouth about his designs, but that is not out of the ordinary in this hobby. I'm really curious as to why Bob Carver really peeves some people. Is there some link I could read?
    Because he's not really done anything new, groundbreaking or unusual. Just basically rehashes the past, which is fine because he has some pieces that are worthy of being redone. Plays it safe and he is a douche because he runs his mouth and always seems to need attention. One word, HUMILITY.

    I would take Nelson Pass's approach, personality and humility any day over Bob's. It's not so much about the gear or his past accomplishments, but the man himself and the attitude get tiresome.

    H9

    P.s. Sunfire gear can be easily bested. IMO, it's not all that.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  20. #20

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    I give Mr. Carver credit for...

    Designing the best loudspeakers that I have ever heard. The Platinum Mk IV's. I'm fortunate to have bought a pair (in oak) some 21 years ago direct from the Carver factory for $1,156/pair. But even at full price which was $2300 or $2400 for oak ($2700 for the black lacquer), these were probably the audio steal of all-time. Much better listeners than myself had proclaimed "For $2,500. depending on your point of view, they are either AS GOOD, A HAIR BETTER, OR A HAIR LESS than the most exotic and expensive home loudspeakers you can buy!" He went on to mention the Infinity IRS, the big M-L's of the time, and some other heavy hitters occupying the $10k - $100k price range as examples. Not bad company for a $2,500/pair speaker. So I ordered a pair, and after I got them, and set them up, in less than a minute of listening I agreed with their findings....except I never heard the Infinity IRS, the big M-L's of the time... PLUS, they didn't really present a bad load to an amp. Yeah you needed a lot of power, but you didn't need something that would be stable into a dead short. Which leads us to.. his amps.

    I find his amps work fantastic with HIS speakers, and a host of other loudspeakers that I've had pass through here. For as long as I've had the speakers, I've driven them with either one or two M4.0t amps. It sounds great. Are there other amps out there for a lot more money that make them sound even greater? I don't know, I don't care. I especially don't care now that I am stone freakin' deaf, but I really didn't care back around 1990 when I COULD still hear, cause as far as I was concerned, I had the best sounding rig I ever heard. Good enough for me. I ended up using a non-Carver amp (Onkyo M-5090) about 10 years ago to power the woofers in a pair of AR-9's that I got, because I knew those were a pretty demanding load. I used a Carver M-500t to drive the tops. It sounded fine. The Onk crapped out a couple months ago, so I slipped a Carver A-500 in there. It sounds fine. Bear in mind, I'm deaf now.

    So, in my opinion, he's world-class for (at least at one time) presenting the opportunity to anyone that had $2500, to own some of the finest loudspeakers ever, and some amps that could power those loudspeakers at relatively modest cost.

    He's gotta watch who he hangs out with though.

  21. #21

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    Why judge the tree and not the fruit? The fruit is what we'll be eating, right? I don't walk into a car dealership and make a decision based on how humble the CEO is. It's about the price and products. Are we consumers or critics?

    Interesting stuff here for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Because he's not really done anything new, groundbreaking or unusual. Just basically rehashes the past, which is fine because he has some pieces that are worthy of being redone. Plays it safe and he is a douche because he runs his mouth and always seems to need attention. One word, HUMILITY.

    I would take Nelson Pass's approach, personality and humility any day over Bob's. It's not so much about the gear or his past accomplishments, but the man himself and the attitude get tiresome.

    H9

    P.s. Sunfire gear can be easily bested. IMO, it's not all that.
    Have you ever met the designer of Empirical Audio gear, Steve Nugent. You haven't met arrogant a$$h*le until you meet him. He was the cockiest guy I ever met. I guess he was an engineer at Intel and made the original pentium. Basically he spoke to me at RMAF like he was god's gift to audio. In fact, he claimed his Parasound JC-1 with EA mods were better than any other amp period. . . not because his parts were better but because every other designer simply didn't understand how to make electrical connections or design a circuit that would not degrade the sound. He proceeded to tell me that he already made his millions but if he wanted to return to engineering, companies like Intel would snatch him up instantly and pay him millions to run their r&d.

    Now, compare a guy like that to Darrel Hawthorne who embodies a zen-like attitude in every aspect of his life. It's just crazy how people grow up.

    What's funnier, the Empirical Audio gear sounds wonderful . . . why not just let it speak for itself?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    He's gotta watch who he hangs out with though.
    Back to Carver, what bad people is he associated with?? Designers?? Dealers?? Some names would be great so I can avoid those people. I imagine the whole forum would benefit too. Plus, then we could really get a sense of whether your comments have any merit other than simply being rooted in a distaste for one guy's arrogance.
    Last edited by Kenneth Swauger; 01-21-2012 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    What's funnier, the Empirical Audio gear sounds wonderful . . . why not just let it speak for itself?
    Exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post

    He's gotta watch who he hangs out with though.


    Yeah... he needs you to pick his friends for him.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 01-21-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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    Guys, I get it. You asked what rubbed people wrong about Bob, I simply replied with opinion. He is among the legends in this business as he has contributed a lot. I don't hate the guy or his gear, it's just that I feel there is better out there for not a lot more $$$. I am mostly speaking his solid state designs, etc.

    There is a lot to choose from these days.

    I equate Bob Carver to Eric Clapton. I like the guy and some of his music but I don't get his god like status as guitar player. IMO, there are a lot better guitarists than Clapton, doesn't mean he's not great. Same with Bob, I don't understand the hype around him or why people will exchange nasty words over someone's opinion if it doesn't align with their view of Bob Carver or his accomplishments.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Even the title of this thread is encouraging dissension and negativity, but then I would expect nothing less from gbd as he gets off on pushing buttons.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Guys, I get it. You asked what rubbed people wrong about Bob, I simply replied with opinion. He is among the legends in this business as he has contributed a lot. I don't hate the guy or his gear, it's just that I feel there is better out there for not a lot more $$$. I am mostly speaking his solid state designs, etc.

    There is a lot to choose from these days.

    I equate Bob Carver to Eric Clapton. I like the guy and some of his music but I don't get his god like status as guitar player. IMO, there are a lot better guitarists than Clapton, doesn't mean he's not great. Same with Bob, I don't understand the hype around him or why people will exchange nasty words over someone's opinion if it doesn't align with their view of Bob Carver or his accomplishments.
    I agree with what's been said here. Quicksilver Audio is a great alternative to Carver tube amps if anyone is interested. Mike Sanders is Carlos Santana in my book.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by audiocr381ve View Post
    Why judge the tree and not the fruit? The fruit is what we'll be eating, right? I don't walk into a car dealership and make a decision based on how humble the CEO is. It's about the price and products. Are we consumers or critics?

    Interesting stuff here for sure.
    Ok, I don't care for his solid state amps, not a single one I've heard. They aren't Emo awful, but then they certainly aren't anything that keeps me interested. Not exciting.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Even the title of this thread is encouraging dissension and negativity, but then I would expect nothing less from gbd as he gets off on pushing buttons.

    H9
    yeah and........why are you posting in this thread, hmmmmmm? PS a lot of my gear incorporates buttons, so, you're correct !

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Guys, I get it. You asked what rubbed people wrong about Bob, I simply replied with opinion. He is among the legends in this business as he has contributed a lot. I don't hate the guy or his gear, it's just that I feel there is better out there for not a lot more $$$. I am mostly speaking his solid state designs, etc.

    There is a lot to choose from these days.

    I equate Bob Carver to Eric Clapton. I like the guy and some of his music but I don't get his god like status as guitar player. IMO, there are a lot better guitarists than Clapton, doesn't mean he's not great. Same with Bob, I don't understand the hype around him or why people will exchange nasty words over someone's opinion if it doesn't align with their view of Bob Carver or his accomplishments.
    Clapton is one of my favorites lol. Arguing someones opinion is like pissing up a rope.
    Sda2.3 (Tweets, Spikes)
    Sda1C (Tweets, Sonicaps, Mills, Boards, Spikes, Rings, Dynamat)
    Rta11T (Tweets, Sonicaps, Mills, Spikes, Rings, Dynamat)
    5jr+ (Tweets, Spikes)
    CS350ls (Sonicap, Spikes)
    12" DXi x 2 (Dayton Plate. Slot ported Custom boxes)


    Sunfire TGP3, Sunfire SIG 425x5, Oppo BDP-93, Belkin PF60, Sony PS3 Slim 320 gig, Technics SL-1360
    DH Labs Prostudio XLR-Toslink-Hdmi,Peps for the Oppo, amp, pre and subs)

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