Sonos Connect v. Squeezebox Touch

[EndersShadow]

I have been dead set on a Squeezebox Touch for my HT rig downstairs to stream FLAC from my upstairs computer for a long time now.

I went to a hi-fi store last night to play around and saw a Sonos player. The Sonos interface was pretty cool, it does distributed audio through multiple zones quite well and wasnt too much more than a Touch. I did really like that it sets up its own network to communicate with other players so its not stealing any of your ISP bandwidth.

So now I am trying to figure out if I want to go with the Squeezebox or the Touch and need some help deciding between them.

For you guys who looked at both, what sealed the deal one way or the other for you? Is one DAC better than another?

The specific Sonos I would get to start with would just be the Connect. I would be hard-wiring either solution to my network as an FYI.

I look forward to the discussion that will soon unfold

**edit** just saw that Sonos only does 16 bit / 44.1 hz for FLAC.... that might be a killer right there......

[FTGV]

**edit** just saw that Sonos only does 16 bit / 44.1 hz for FLAC.... that might be a killer right there......

I was considering the Connect but unfortunately it's 16/48k limitation makes it a no go for me since I'm starting to acquire a decent library of hi rez files.

[steveinaz]

Well---not so fast. I think either system will serve you well, but unless you plan on downloading a boatload of hi-res, I wouldn't count out the Sonos yet. Think about it (and I own a Touch), it's really more about the quality of mastering than it is bit depth. I have a number of 24/96 tracks downloaded--not doubt they sound wonderful--but I would suspect that the same tracks at 16/44 will also sound great. Why? Excellent mastering.

If audio mastering engineers did their jobs well, CD would have lived up to it's promise of "perfect sound forever."

Just something to think about before making your decision.

[EndersShadow]

Steve: Isnt ripped FLAC 24/96 bitrate or not? All my music is FLAC and I dont plan on downloading anything, I plan to purchase CD's and then convert them to FLAC so I have the physical media as a backup in case something happens.

Knowing this is not doing 24/96 a problem or no?

[heiney9]

Both seem to be very good. I will always be a fan of the Squeezebox, they pretty much did it first and I have never had an issue with the set-up the product. Don't know how they compare soundwise head to head as most I know that use either one usually have an external dac.

H9

[steveinaz]

Steve: Isnt ripped FLAC 24/96 bitrate or not? All my music is FLAC and I dont plan on downloading anything, I plan to purchase CD's and then convert them to FLAC so I have the physical media as a backup in case something happens.

Knowing this is not doing 24/96 a problem or no?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but a ripped CD, encoded to flac is still 16/44. If you're not going to download hi-res, the Sonos could be compared more equally with the Touch.

FWIW, even the finest DAC's on the planet can rarely resolve 21 bits (w/24 bit materal) in the real world.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

If you're going to be using the internal DACs then it's hard to go wrong with the SB Touch, the DAC in that box is very good. The SB also has more universal support, more apps that will run on it and there are several NAS solutions out there now that will run the Squeezebox Server app so you don't ewven need a computer to use it, huge plus for me.

I'm sure the Sonos is fine but I went with the SB because they're the original and because of the wider universal support.

[EndersShadow]

More than likely I will be using the DAC's in my Integra as they are quite good at least compared to what I have heard from other gear. They will do 24/96. I know the Touch's DAC's are supposed to be really good, but my Integra's got some pretty good ones. I also plan hopefully to in the next year upgrade from my Integra to a Anthem AVR so I can get ARC.

Steve: if all cd's that are ripped will be 16/44.1 and I dont plan to download any hi-rez 24/96 at this point, going to just keep it to FLAC from cd's, I think the Sonos might be the ticket simply due to the expandability for playing the same music in multiple zones in the future (as I plan to do outdoor speakers when we move). The only thing I dont like is that its about 100 more than the Touch.

Keep the comments/suggestions coming guys.

[tonyb]

The major differences to me any way, is the Touch has a better built in dac, but the Sonos has better software. As far as 24/96 goes, Sonos can be modded, I have a cullen modded one that does 24/96, and compared head to head with a standard Sonos unit, the differences are slight. I would recommend an external dac for either choice if you want to up your game in the SQ department. The Sonos is more expensive but also more versatile. Just depends more so on your needs is all. For a Sonos, you would need the zp90, a bridge, and thats it. You could download the app for the controller for free to use your phone as the controller or you could shell out the 350 bucks for their own wireless controller. Sonos is more of a whole house solution while the Touch is a single room solution. Thats not to say you can still buy multiple Touches for each room too. Two different animals but both do the same thing basically.

I have one Sonos connected to an old receiver with A-B speaker switching that way I cover 2 zones with one box. Speaker A covers the deck, speaker B covers the kitchen area. Just an option, which could also work for the Touch if you have speaker switching available. I'm not too familiar with the Touch's software, but can't say enough about how well the Sonos software works. The other nice thing is you can lump zones together, or play different music in all different zones, from one controller. I know alot of guys here use and like the Touch, so I would listen to them if thats the route you go. I'm not by any means knocking the Touch, as I have limited use of one. Different strokes and all that. Phil and myself use the Sonos, actually Phil was the one who sold me on it, and can't thank him enough. It's so easy, a caveman can do it. I had my mother-in-law using it inside of 2 minutes and this is a woman who can't figure out how to use email. If the cost factor is of concern, then go with the Touch, it's obviously very good at what it does and you'll never hear anyone complain about it. If the whole house thing is more to your needs, then cough up the coin for the Sonos, a 100 bucks in the audio world imho isn't all that much.
I might add that your local Best buy has them so if you want to go play around with one, go check it out first.

[FTGV]

have a cullen modded one that does 24/96, and compared head to head with a standard Sonos unit, the differences are slight.

Does the modded unit accept true 24/96k native files or is it merely the addition of a sample rate converter that resamples the 16/44.1k data to 24/96?

[EndersShadow]

tonyb:

I played with one in a local hi-fi store with the iPad app and it was quite simple. Thats actually what spawned this thread. The plan to start was just for it to be a one room solution but with possibilities to add more zones later on. I just really liked how simple it was, not that the Logitech isnt just as good. I just didnt get to test it with the source being off a computer, just the radio.

My Integra does have the ability to either shoot Zone 2 out, or power Zone 2 speakers, but I would more than likely just add a used avr or two for the outdoor speakers connected to another Sonos

[mantis]

Sonos- there is nothing cooler then this product for streaming music and whats even cooler is you can have music is rooms you want that are not audiophile listening. You can get your Connect(ZP90) in your rig , then pick up a few P5 or a pair of P3's for a stereo pair , a ZP120 for an outdoor zone , run wires from the unit to the outdoor speakers ( can live close by but not outside) and you are now building an entire house house music system. It all starts with the Zp90 or connect. You can add as many Sonos pieces you want around your house.

[mdaudioguy]

I have been dead set on a Squeezebox Touch for my HT rig downstairs to stream FLAC from my upstairs computer for a long time now.

I went to a hi-fi store last night to play around and saw a Sonos player. The Sonos interface was pretty cool, it does distributed audio through multiple zones quite well and wasnt too much more than a Touch.

I think the Sonos might be the ticket simply due to the expandability for playing the same music in multiple zones in the future (as I plan to do outdoor speakers when we move). The only thing I dont like is that its about 100 more than the Touch.

Sonos is more of a whole house solution while the Touch is a single room solution. Thats not to say you can still buy multiple Touches for each room too.[...]
I'm not too familiar with the Touch's software, but can't say enough about how well the Sonos software works. The other nice thing is you can lump zones together, or play different music in all different zones, from one controller. I know alot of guys here use and like the Touch, so I would listen to them if thats the route you go. I'm not by any means knocking the Touch, as I have limited use of one. Different strokes and all that. Phil and myself use the Sonos, actually Phil was the one who sold me on it, and can't thank him enough. It's so easy, a caveman can do it. I had my mother-in-law using it inside of 2 minutes and this is a woman who can't figure out how to use email. If the cost factor is of concern, then go with the Touch, it's obviously very good at what it does and you'll never hear anyone complain about it. If the whole house thing is more to your needs, then cough up the coin for the Sonos, a 100 bucks in the audio world imho isn't all that much.

Just wanted to set the record straight (although I think it's understood, but just not clear in some of the comments above), that Squeezebox does in fact do multiple zones, and it's easy, too. However, where I think Logitech went wrong is when they discontinued the separate receivers that were once available from the Duet controller/receiver combo. These allowed for simple connection to an amp/receiver for adding zones. $149 for each additional zone (you can still find them on e-bay). Not audiophile quality, but perfect for outdoor, garage, or any place you're not doing serious listening. For the serious listening zone(s), just use a Touch. A good solution for multiple zones right now, would be a Touch and then some receivers as mentioned above, or used SB Classics that seem to pop up now and then. Or, if you've got the money, a Touch in every zone.

For the setup that I have now, Sonos would have been out of my price range. Sonos seems to have a much more comprehensive array of hardware. I like the units that have an amp built in, but then again, I'd hate to be limited to use their amp, although it's probably ideal for places like outdoor zones and the like. I also think that the Sonos proprietary network is better for some folks, because there's less fiddling involved, but network setup has never been a problem for me and I kind of like the control I have over everything.

The way I see the two, Sonos is like Apple - proprietary, but set it up and it just works - and they likely appeal to a similar customer base. Squeezebox is more like Android... open-source, more customizable, but highly functional nonetheless.

[mdaudioguy]

FYI, I have four zones

• HT rig has a Touch.
• Two outdoor zones - each has a Duet receiver (no display, which is fine, because they're in the basement - out of sight) connected to an Audiosource input-sensing amp. Turn a receiver on remotely and the connected amp wakes up. It shuts down several minutes after its receiver stops playing. This configuration has worked very nicely for me.
• Garage has a SB Classic connected to an integrated amp.

I can synch any two or more zones, or I can play something different in each zone. I can use either the Duet controller (hardly ever) or an app on my phone. The Touch can also be controlled with my Harmony remote. I temporarily moved a receiver from one of my outdoor zones to our bedroom, and now I'm sure I want something up there permanently. Maybe another Touch. I think it could essentially replace our alarm clock/radio.

[EndersShadow]

I do know the Squeezebox does multiple zones, I just think the Sonos might do it better (which it should given its price). It also sets up its own network so its not using any of your network bandwidth to pass the audio. For a gamer like me thats a pretty cool thing, plus my wife is always watching netflix online.

I still got lots of reading to do on the Sonos as it seems to do more zones better, but at the price of the 24/96 bitrate (which I cant use now, but might be able to in the future), and for 100 more.

Keep the comments coming.

[tonyb]

Does the modded unit accept true 24/96k native files or is it merely the addition of a sample rate converter that resamples the 16/44.1k data to 24/96?

Native....though any good dac can do upsampling if you had a standard unit. Don't get me wrong, the standard unit sounds good on it's own, better with a dac. I've noticed trying to use dacs in receivers doesn't yield the same results as a seperate stand alone dac. Which for all intents and purposes, should be that way anyway.

[tonyb]

Sonos- there is nothing cooler then this product for streaming music and whats even cooler is you can have music is rooms you want that are not audiophile listening. You can get your Connect(ZP90) in your rig , then pick up a few P5 or a pair of P3's for a stereo pair , a ZP120 for an outdoor zone , run wires from the unit to the outdoor speakers ( can live close by but not outside) and you are now building an entire house house music system. It all starts with the Zp90 or connect. You can add as many Sonos pieces you want around your house.

I 've had the p5 and the zp120, which both I didn't care for. The zp90 connected to a 50 buck receiver yields better sq than that zp120. Just my opinion of coarse but one based on experience. The P5 is cool in the fact that you can move it around, room to room if so desired and re connects in 60 seconds when unplugged and pluged back in. I choose to stick with the ZP90's around the house, and a old avr with speaker a and b switching cuts down on the cost of buying another zp90.
Like I said, whole house solution, the Sonos is a tough competitor, single room, the touch is also a tough competitor. You can't go wrong either way.

[FTGV]

Native

Interesting that would require a serious reworking.

..any good dac can do upsampling if you had a standard unit..

True a number of DAC's can upsample a lower rez file and having one believe it does offer some sonic benifit.However IMO upsampled vs native 24/96 is like filling the last 25% of a beer bottle with water instead of beer.Sure it may be full(as would be the data points) but the flavour would be well um watered down.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I It also sets up its own network so its not using any of your network bandwidth to pass the audio. For a gamer like me thats a pretty cool thing, plus my wife is always watching netflix online.

You've said that twice now, and I have no idea what that really means...

If you've got your files stored on a computer and the Sonos is communicating with that computer then it's going to be using the same network that computer is on. The Sonos can create it's own network maybe between different Sonos devices so that transferring data between Sonos devices uses a different network, but if you're connecting to a computer it's gonna connect on whatever network that computer is attached to. You could have a computer attached to more than one network, but could just as easily do that with a SB.

Either way, it has nothing to do with your ISP or the bandwidth coming into your house.

Also, if you find yourself in a situation where streaming audio even to multiple rooms at once has any real impact on your network then you need to update your network. Any reasonably new networking gear (like say in the past 4 years) should have no problem streaming to multiple devices at once. I can stream Netflix in 2 room, stream lossless audio in 3 rooms, have internet on 3 computer an ipad and 2 iphones, and play Borderlands online while chatting with friends...all at once. And I don't have high end gear, just one Airport Extreme running the whole deal.

[EndersShadow]

Assimilated: you are correct, the Sonos devices communicate between themselves on their own peer to peet network. I think that is supposed to mean less of a load on your network, but I could be wrong. So you connect one device to your network and then the other devices stream their music FROM that device rather than your router directly.

I apologize if I start rambling but I am on some new med's and they are kinda screwing with my head a bit

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

No worries, was just clarifying. Even if they do create their own P2P network and don't use your network at home, you would never notice the difference unless you're running some seriously old networking gear, it's just not enough bandwidth for you to notice unless you have a really poort network setup.

There are probably other reasons to choose the Sonos, but I really wouldn't let that affect your decision.

[vcwatkins]

I use SB at home (2 bedrooms, office, den, studio) and Sonos at the beach (decks, kitchen, game room).

The Sonos Bridge is plugged into the modem/router and system is controlled exclusively with iphone. The setup was about as easy as the SB. I hope to map to my home NAS-personal cloud thingie for easy access without copying files to a separate NAS this spring. Most the time, I just stream Pandora or play random mix from ipod 320's for background or deck parties. The few times I've played cd's using the Sonos internal DAC and really listened to the game room system (old NAD integrated, Infinity books, older JBL standmounts), it has sounded pretty good, but I can't say if it's as good as the SB's internal.

At one time there was a file limit on the Sonos library. Not sure if they ever changed this, but it might be worth checking on if your library is large. The range of the Sonos network can be expanded by adding another Bridge. The SB pulls in a signal in a separate building studio, where the Sonos (without an extra Bridge) did not. The Sonos iphone controller is better IMO for controlling zones source, volume, treble & bass levels, rating songs. Both SB and Sonos don't seem to like to be moved around too much. I suspect I'm in a minority here, but I've had more issues come up with Sonos than with SB (lots of system. reboots and a malfunctioning zp). I like having the local SB touchpad right there at the system.

Overall, I am happy with both but prefer the SB, especially for critical listening.

[tonyb]

Interesting that would require a serious reworking..

Yep, pretty much why the mod cost 500 bones. But honestly, it all comes down to how well recorded the music is in the first place.

[pearsall001]

Both Sonos & SB are excellent products. If used as standalone units without an outboard DAC I think they are both on par with each other as far as sound quality goes. In other words they both sound extremely good. The main difference between the Sonos system & others on the market is the ability of the Sonos system for expandability. Their built in network is what sets them apart, the ease of setup, ease of use either with their own controller or iphone, & again the Sonos's ability to expand your system is second to none. If expandability isn't an issue for your needs then saving a few bucks with the SB would be in order.

For my use & system the Sonos was the winner hands down. Either system will give you great pleasure & just the ability to thrown out your CD player is reason enough for either system.

[coolsax]

question a little off topic, but still SB related.. for those that have SB and use either the free logitech app or the peng app with your ipads... can you still surf the web using safari while running a squeezebox app? i'm thinking of finally going squeezebox with an ipad control, but i want to be able to surf the web while doing so if i'm not doing any really critical listening.