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  1. #1

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    Default 'Entry Level' DAC Comparison

    Well I've been acquiring a few DACs over the last couple week, and have got the last DACs burning in now, should be ready to do a comparison over the weekend.

    I titled this thread 'entry level' DACs, and agree that's debatable. These are DACs that are under $500, but do not include the ultra cheap DACs like the Fiio models that are under $100, maybe I should have totled it the $300 - $500 DAC comparison.

    I've been torturing myself over finalizing the headphone rig with the perfect DAC and which one to go with and ultimately decided this would be the best way to compare, so I'm anxious to start this weekend.

    I've got a few DACs that I'll be comparing:

    Musical Fidelity V-DAC Mk II
    Audio-GD NFB 3
    PeachTree Audio DAC-iT
    Cambridge Audio DACMagic
    HRT Streamer II+
    Musiland Monitor 02
    Arcam rDAC
    Oppo 83-SE DACs
    Schitt BiFrost

    Obviously this is not an all-encompassing list. These are the few that I had narrowed my search down to or could get my hands on relatively easily. I don't expect that any of these would be able to compete with the really high dollar models out there, but I'm just not in the market to spend $1000+ on a DAC right now, so we'll see which is the best of the bunch.

    It's just one guy's opinion, but I'll do my best not to just say "this one's better" and actually provide a meaningful descript of how they actually sound.
    Last edited by nap; 01-28-2012 at 07:47 AM. Reason: DAC added to list at request of OP
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  2. #2

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    Hell yea, man. Fun stuff.

    I've got my money on the NFB-3.

    I'm assuming you'll be running USB to these DAC's?
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  3. #3

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    Good stuff, when are you doing the shoot-out? If you decide to sell the Audio GD after the shoot-out please give me first shot. I just bought a Keces DA-151 for my office rig. It's USB only. I just received it and the Audio GD was my other choice. I have a Musiland Monitor 02 and already the Keces sounds more coherent, has better bass and is fuller sounding. I have only listened to it for a couple hours.

    http://www.head-fi.org/t/297021/revi...-hours-burn-in

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  4. #4

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    Nice list....be very interested in your review. I would imagine the Peachtree or Audio gd will be at the top but who knows, stranger outcomes have happened in these head to heads.

  5. #5

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    Are you using a computer or a the SQB for comparison? The reason I ask is because depending on the interphase (ASIO, WASAPI, etc) and program you use, things can vary quite a bit in that regard. I am assuming you will be using the SQB and not a computer connection.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  6. #6

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    Very cool. I notice something interesting this morning in Audio Advisors latest mailer---Sim Audio has a $500 Moon series DAC; looked really interesting. From the pic, it looks like it had a USB, Toslink, Coax connection (1 for each).

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  7. #7

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    I was gonna include this in the comparison writeups, but I'll be toggling between 3 setups for the comparison:

    1 - Oppo 83 SE (this way I can compare the DACs to the chips inside the 83 itself, which I believe are Sabre DACs)
    2 - Squeezebox Touch
    3 - Computer (specifically an iMac using Pure Music > Musical Fidelity V-Link (USB to spdif converter) > DAC)

    I'll be comparing with all 3, but the computer setup is the one most important to me as that's the rig I'll be using this DAC on. This also means I'll be using the optical (or coaxial) connection on every DAC, so I will NOT be using the USB setup on any of the DACs. The V-Link seems to be universally liked as an excellent USB to spdif converter, and USB implementations on DACs (especially in this price range) can be sketchy and not all are even asynch. I want as pure of a comparison as possible on the DACs themselves hence my decision to go this route.

    If there's interest I can also give some impressions on each unit using it's USB input directly from the computer.
    Last edited by AsSiMiLaTeD; 01-27-2012 at 10:12 AM.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  8. #8

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    Why no USB? I have a USB to SPDIF converter and the whole point of getting the Keces was to use the USB and get rid of the "extra" component and cables in the chain. The secondary idea was to clear some desk space by getting rid of it as well.

    The thing you are missing about the "sketchy" USB, is the V-link or Musiland have the same sketchy issues because you are using the USB. I use the Musiland for conversion (or rather I did) and their software makes a huge difference when using the USB. You are not avoiding the issues with USB by converting to SPDIF, they are still there so don't think by using the V-link these issues somehow don't manifest themselves. The sole use for the conversion is to be able to use a USB connection when the DAC only has SPDIF connections. All the pitfalls are still present in regards to USB use.

    Plus the player you decide to use on the computer can have an effect on the sound as well. My point simply being just because you are using the V-link for conversion doesn't mean all the same USB pitfalls are magically eliminated. For consistency I can see it, but to get a better idea how they perform using the USB the V-link should be eliminated, IMO. If you decide to do that I might consider sending you the Keces to be included in the shoot-out.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 01-27-2012 at 10:19 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  9. #9

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    very cool. I'm looking forward to reading your results on this as I've been researching this topic for some time now.

  10. #10

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    I understand your point of view Brock, and will do the comparison both way, via the V-Link and directly into each devices USB input (a couple of those are USB only anyway). What I'm really after is the performance of the DAC itself though, so in using the V-Link I can rule out differences in how USB is implemented in each DAC. I have no illusions that the V-LINK is perfect. I know I'm not bypassing the USB inherent limitations with using the V-Link, but I know I'm at least using one of the better devices out there to deal with it. Everything I've read and I've heard personally with the V-Link indicate that it's an excellent USB to spdif converter so that's what I decided to go with.

    The inherent problem with using the V-Link is that I'm assuming it's a solid piece of gear, and if it's not then I can screw up the results of the whole test. That's why I'm also doing the comparison using the other 2 setups as mentioned, so that one component upstream can't skew the results of the whole test. If I get different results with the V-Link than I do with the SB Touch then I'll definitely note that.

    I need some form of consistency when doing the comparison. Every one of those devices uses a different implementations of USB and most on that list are not even asynchronous. What I don't want to do is compare using the USB on the devices and rule out one that has an absolutely great DAC section but a USB section that's not as good.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  11. #11

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    Depending on the time frame I may send you the Keces. It's new to me so I want to get some listening time on it myself. I'll PM you if think you want to include the Keces.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsSiMiLaTeD View Post
    ...What I don't want to do is compare using the USB on the devices and rule out one that has an absolutely great DAC section but a USB section that's not as good.
    I think there's merit in comparing their USB sections. If someone is looking for a single-piece USB solution, they'd have to take both the USB implementation and the DAC section into account.

    I think there's merit in doing it both ways: 1. USB and all. 2. DAC only. Both should be examined.

    Heck, you may even find that one or some of them sound better using their internal USB sections than using the V-Link!

    If you end up still using a USB>SPDIF converter upstream, that's cool, but at least you'll know why. (BTW, if that's the case, I gotta recommend the Audio GD Digital Interface, with external power supply.)
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  13. #13

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    Yep I'll do it both ways. I assume the V-Link will handle the USB conversion better, but who knows I may be surprised. If I can get by without needing the V-Link though that's even better, one less component in the chain and more room on my already small desktop.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  14. #14

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    Great! I'll read this once you write your reviews, will be good info as I'm currently looking for a DAC for my soon-to-be new NAD326 BEE.
    Last edited by pyrocyborg; 01-27-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #15

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    As an FYI, Cambridge-Audio has released a new DacMagic. It appears they are in the process of replacing their current product line, as Audio Advisor has their gear at close-out prices.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=CADACMAPL

  16. #16

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    $600---nice!

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  17. #17

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    $50 off is hardly a blow-out. $599/new has been the going price on the 'net for awhile.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Very cool. I notice something interesting this morning in Audio Advisors latest mailer---Sim Audio has a $500 Moon series DAC; looked really interesting. From the pic, it looks like it had a USB, Toslink, Coax connection (1 for each).
    I'm really interested in this DAC also. I have a SimAudio Moon series phono pre that is just outstanding at it's price point.
    DKG999
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    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  19. #19

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    Me too, the LP3?

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  20. #20

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    These threads are my favorite

    Its great that your taking the time to do this and I'm sure it will be very beneficial to the audio community

  21. #21

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    your results interest me greatly! Looking forward to them!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by chandler9a View Post
    very cool. I'm looking forward to reading your results on this as I've been researching this topic for some time now.
    +1

  23. #23

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    Definitely going to be following this as my head rig is currently pretty basic right now, (line out from laptop to a Fiio E9 amp) want to introduce a dedicated DAC to the equation myself, though if i end up with a SQB touch i'll probably move my HRT to the head rig. would have liked to have seen the Schitt bitfrost on the list, but as you said can't get all of them :)
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    Squeezebox Touch->AQ Alpha Snake->Music Hall A15.2->Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1
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    Head-fi - Sennheiser HD 280, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, B&W P5, Sennheiser HD 650
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    $50 off is hardly a blow-out. $599/new has been the going price on the 'net for awhile.

    H9

    If you are responding to my post about the new DAC then I'm not sure what you are referring to. Being a new product it has only been on the net for a short while. The original DAC Magic has never been at $599.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    If you are responding to my post about the new DAC then I'm not sure what you are referring to. Being a new product it has only been on the net for a short while. The original DAC Magic has never been at $599.
    Sorry but I'm confused???? You said they (Cambridge) are introducing a new DAC, so the original DAC Magic is now on close-out. All I was saying is $50 off the (old) DAC Magic isn't all that great as they (the old DAC Magic) have been available on the 'net for $599 for awhile now (meaning before AA closed them out).

    Not a big deal, I just don't think $599 for the original DAC Magic is all that "magical" a price

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    That's not the original Dacmagic for $599 brock, that's the new one. The original Dacmagic is now $429
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsSiMiLaTeD View Post
    That's not the original Dacmagic for $599 brock, that's the new one. The original Dacmagic is now $429
    My bad, guess I didn't pay close attention






    ........carry on
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  28. #28

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    I'm very interested in the usb. The nfb-3 Vs. the Arcam rdac
    loomed as two big choices for me. The theory is the RDAC is better,
    but we'll see.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

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    Keith, I may able to let you borrow the rDac when I'm done. I'll check with the owner and get back with you after the weekend. A couple of these I only have for the weekend and a couple I can send back at my discretion.
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

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    Nice collection.

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