Pioneer P99RS: Sex as a head unit

[MacLeod]

So I got this thing finally installed last night and this thing is a freaking work of art. It has a little learning curve and I had to sit there with my manual in hand for the first hour which is the first time Ive ever had to do that. However, after the initial hour, I can cruise thru all the audio tuning. The only one thats weird is the crossover. That one will take me a lot longer to get used to that one. You push one way to move from HP to LP, then push something else to change the crossover point, push something else to change the slope, something else to change the level and if you push the wrong thing then it moves you to the next thing which is either time alignment or the position setting.

The EQ is very easy to use and it DOES have the invaluable feature of where you can level match left and right, then lock them both together. Other EQ's when you do this, it splits the difference of the Left and Right level pretty much wiping out all your level matching. The P99 locks them at the settings you left them so if you have 1KHz at -2 on the left and -4 on the right, lock them and move 1K up 2b, itll have left at 0 and right at -2. That is perfect! I can level match before I tune which is the most preferable way to tune because with both sides level matched, youre not having to tune around humps in the frequency response. Love it! Because of this, Ive noticed that my EQ curve has a LOT less cuts in it than the ones on my old Alpine. This means more volume and dynamics. Its got 5 EQ memories which is cool but I wish those memories would also include the crossover settings at least. Not that big a deal but wouldve been nice.

Oh, and Arun, I dont hear a straight up difference in .5db steps on a given frequency BUT it does help in level matching when you can go +1.5db and -1.5 on the right which does make a difference as opposed to +2 and -2 or +1 and -1 believe it or not. So Ill begrudgingly admit that you were right on this one. It does help.

The crossover while being a pain to use, it better than the Alpine. Its 1/3 octave instead of the Alpine's 1/6 octave but I never used those odd settings anyway but the P99 goes down to 36db/oct which is kinda nice and should let me cross the sub up a little higher

The time alignment pisses me off. It works well enough but I hate the whole inches thing. Its ridiculous and for the life of me I dont understand why they wont just let you add delay like the Alpine. It makes much more sense. I want to delay the left speaker, so its stupid that I have to adjust the RIGHT speaker.

The display is beautiful and classy. I wish it were a little bigger but thats not big deal and probably because Im getting old and going blind. The knobs are a little too short to work easily though. The remote works everything which is awesome! I can sit there and lean back and tune and while you cant change the track while in a EQ menu, its only a 1 button push to get out of the EQ and knock the track back then a 2 button push to get right back to the exact same spot you were at in the EQ. My only gripe is the remote is TINY. It barely fits in my hand! One cool thing though is that it comes with a mount that you can attach to your steering wheel so you can control everything there. Pretty cool.

As for the dreaded noise issues I was having - none. Zip, zero nada. This thing is graveyard quiet even at full max volume and paused CD. Nothing! It also has a cool feature thatll help my turn off pops maybe. When you eject a CD, it turns off the amps. Why this is cool is that my turn off pops are slight so the CD mechanism masks the sound of them. Also, the pops seem to be associated with heat of a charge build up of some kind because if you turn them off and they pop, turn them on and back on again they wont pop. A lot of judges look for turn on pops when they turn the ignition off. Theyll do this after theyve ejected the CD so while this wont cure my turn off pops, it may help me get away with them on a few judges anyway.

So yeah, I love this thing! Its not quite as easy to use as my old Alpine but its not that hard once you get things figured out and Im pretty certain that in a few weeks Ill be able to bounce around all the menus with my eyes closed.

So yeah, this is the coolest thing Ive ever owned and I feel comfortable claiming that this is the greatest audiophile CD player in history. Im gonna have a lot of fun playing with it the next couple seasons.

[EndersShadow]

Awesome. Post some pics of your full setup. I know DSkip is at home drueling right now

[arun1963]

Ok, so if by chance the p-99 were to suddenly transform into a woman of equal substance, who would you have sitting next to you?

That probably is your longest post ever. Safe to assume then that you're madly in love . Congrats its a great unit. I've had my hands on it twice. Once for about 45 mts and once for a couple of days when I was setting it up for a friend. Yes the remote is tiny. I have big hands and 10 thumbs. On the TA, if you remember the settings from your alpine, multiply them by 13.5 and you should be somewhere in the vicinity of where you had it. I never used ms till I got the bit10. Just remember, reduce distance = add delay and vice versa.

Try cutting any 3 consecutive bands by 0.5db listen and then raise them again. Then try it with to and then with one. It's about letting your ears settle into hearing the difference in smaller steps. It took me a bit too, when I played around on the p-99. Getting used to pio menus takes a bit, I'll grant you that. In a few days check if the sound changes when you lock L&R together, than when it is independent.

[exalted512]

pics or it doesnt exist.
-Cody

[DSkip]

You will get used to the Pio tuning. It is different than Alpine, but give it time. If its like the 860/880, after you get a feel for it, you can change your settings blindfolded.

[MacLeod]

Alright Im off to the first MECA show of the season tomorrow up in Nashville and Ive got my first official tune of the season as well. This is what Ive come up with so far:



And this is the FR graph I get from my RTA Pro program on my Droid Thunderbolt. Im sure its not very accurate given that its working off a cell phone mic but its all I got.



At the show tomorrow I may be able to get some time to work with a "real" RTA and I can compare those results to what I get on my phone. Hopefully itll be somewhat similar. But thats what Im going to the show with. We'll see what the judges think. Im trying a little something different this time around by going with a little bit thinner mix in the midbass and sub bass areas. Since the judges seem to like to crank up the volume a lot lately, keeping it thin like that will let them crank it up without the low end overpowering and getting sloppy. I always tuned to be kinda punchy at normal listening levels but that also meant it wouldnt blend very well at the higher volumes. We'll see.

[DSkip]

How does the tuning fare to your previous excursions? Obviously its easier on the fly, but what about in-depth tuning like above?

[arun1963]

And this is the FR graph I get from my RTA Pro program on my Droid Thunderbolt. Im sure its not very accurate given that its working off a cell phone mic but its all I got.



At the show tomorrow I may be able to get some time to work with a "real" RTA and I can compare those results to what I get on my phone. Hopefully itll be somewhat similar. But thats what Im going to the show with. We'll see what the judges think. Im trying a little something different this time around by going with a little bit thinner mix in the midbass and sub bass areas. Since the judges seem to like to crank up the volume a lot lately, keeping it thin like that will let them crank it up without the low end overpowering and getting sloppy. I always tuned to be kinda punchy at normal listening levels but that also meant it wouldnt blend very well at the higher volumes. We'll see.

Took me a while to see the +/- x.5 settings. Thought you were just messy with filling in the boxes .

The RTA is dBFS which is not really spl. But look at the shape on the curve of the last dynamic peak (the faint dotted lines) . Get an RTA reading at the show lets see what that looks like.

Did you use the alpine chart to convert the distance on the pio to ms?

Good luck dude. Will you be posting live updates?

[MacLeod]

I didn't do any conversions, I did it all by ear. Just turn all drivers off but the pair I'm adjusting then add delay until it lines up right. Then go and fine tune it with all of them playing.

There is a huge turnout here! Looks like we'll be here a while.

[arun1963]

Good luck and have fun.

[MacLeod]

Finally, the last judge. Have heard some really good cars though.

[MacLeod]

2nd place. Good to see I'm starting out the season right.

By less than a point too so I basically lost because I lost a point average because of turn on pops.

I'm pissed now. This is getting ridiculous. Time to pull out the credit card and tell the wife to get over it. I'm tired of not winning. Its time for some new amps and its time to rethink my layout.

[jay27]

What you're able to do without using any high tech tesing equipment/rta, etc. is pretty amazing. Not to mention that others I'm sure are spending many times what you are in stereo equipment. I wish I had the skills.

How much of your layout are you wanting to change out?

[MacLeod]

I appreciate that but at the end of the day I gotta start winning. 40 runner up spots is still zero wins. This is my 7th season competing so I gotta get it done. No more excuses, ya know.

Time for new amps for sure. I want to do something with my midbass too. Those SR 5's are awesome speakers but were never meant to work as dedicated midbass. I'm gonna look into getting something done in the kicks with maybe some fiberglass cause my doors wont hold anything bigger than a 5 and they're in crappy locations anyway.

I'd love take it down to Steve Cook in Alabama and let him build me a set of his literally perfect bulletproof kicks.

[pentoncm]

I say for midbass you go for the legatia L6 or L8.

I know you aren't a fan of hybrid but for midbass they are among the best.

Arc audio amps?

[MacLeod]

If I'm going custom kicks, I'm going Scanspeak 5.5" Revelators. Like I said, no more excuses. LOL.

The amps I'm eyeballing are the JL Audio XD series. Something like their 6 channel and 600 watt mono. I haven't ruled out the Polk D's either.

[arun1963]

2nd place. Good to see I'm starting out the season right.

By less than a point too so I basically lost because I lost a point average because of turn on pops.

Yeah, you would have won your class and the 'best of show'. Erin got both, right? Maybe start with the Polk D amps and see if they solve the pop issues.

I'm pissed now. This is getting ridiculous. Time to pull out the credit card and tell the wife to get over it. I'm tired of not winning. Its time for some new amps and its time to rethink my layout.

Grovelling works better with the wives.

I'm gonna look into getting something done in the kicks with maybe some fiberglass cause my doors wont hold anything bigger than a 5 and they're in crappy locations anyway.

I'd love take it down to Steve Cook in Alabama and let him build me a set of his literally perfect bulletproof kicks.

Purely out of curiosity, how much would Steve Cook charge for doing the kicks?

If I'm going custom kicks, I'm going Scanspeak 5.5" Revelators. Like I said, no more excuses. LOL.

The amps I'm eyeballing are the JL Audio XD series. Something like their 6 channel and 600 watt mono. I haven't ruled out the Polk D's either.

Why would you want to replace one set of 5.5 MB (SR) with another 5.5 (Scan)? Unless you're talking about doing a midrange in the kicks. Try the Polk D amps before you throw money at the JL amps.

[MacLeod]

Nah Erin still would've won. I would've got a 77 without the deductions but he scored a 79 IIRC. Still, would've just been nice to win a money class for a change. The way MECA does it, if you have 5 or more people in your class, the winner of that class wins $5 a head. In 7 seasons, I've never won one. I always miss out by a few tenths of a point. It's one of God's little jokes.

I think Steve told me once he'd build me some for $300. Logistics would be mainly the problem cause he'd have to keep my car for at least 2 days and his shop is 4 hours away. I may give Jeff Smith a try. That dude is a genius installer as well as multi time champion so I'd trust him with them and he's just a couple hours down the road. Still, I'm not sure how I could go without a car for 2-3 days. I've also got a big ass fuse box in the left kick so it may not even be possible to put anything there. Ill look at it this week some time and see if its possible to move it any.

Those Scan Revelators are much better speakers than really anything out there. There 5.5" and very beefy and are capable of very good midbass. I've heard them ran as dedicated midbass and they work very well. There $240 a piece tho so ouch.

[pentoncm]

How much of a difference is there between the revelator and illuminator line?

If you're gonna go midbass, go at least for the 6.5 inch

[MacLeod]

I haven't heard the Illuminator mids yet. Judging by my Illuminator tweeters, I'd guess that theyre a little brighter maybe. The Revelators have a nice warm sound to them.

I'd love to go with a 6 but I wont have the room. Ill be trading this thing in next year so I don't want to do too much modding. Besides, a 5" Scan in a sealed enclosure will make a very good midbass. Maybe not pounding at 40 Hz but will still have enough energy to pull the bass up front and blend with the sub.

[arun1963]

How about 5x7 in your door and swap the morels for 4.5" Illuminators, which have a better FR than the Revs. Unless you can get the older Revs. The 5x7 would give you the displacement of a 6.75" and do 40-160. The Scans could then pick up from there. Ford stock in the doors are 5x7.

[MacLeod]

The only 5x7's worth a damn are the JL component set and they want $320 for a pair! Can't fit the Scan 4's in the A pillars without cutting sheet metal and that bumps me up a class.

[arun1963]

How about the TB 5x7? It's only going to play like 2 octaves and I believe the TB's can dig low. One thing that kills imaging in this range is resonance. So you'd need bullet proof mounting. Whats the biggest mid you can put on the pillars? How much would pods cost for the pillars?

Hey did you get the RTA done?

[MacLeod]

Those look awful flimsy. Also they'll be running up to 500Hz so they've gotta have good lower midrange performance as well and I dont think I trust TB for anything much over 125Hz.

I didn't get a chance to RTA. Erin was all over the place helping folks and hanging out so I didn't bother him. Plus we were all trying to corral judges since there so many cars there.