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  1. #1
    pepster
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    Default Does length really matter?

    What is your opinion on the "length matters" debate?
    IC's, Power cables. Digital cables????

    Opinions?

    A few examples of my "from scratch shorter cables".

    Any input?
    Long vs. short?


    I would like to hear your thoughts.


    You think it makes a difference?
    Last edited by pepster; 04-25-2012 at 02:33 AM.

  2. #2

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    It's all about width.

  3. #3
    pepster
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiocr381ve View Post
    It's all about width.
    LMAO!
    I never thought about that!

  4. #4
    pepster
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    These are all used cables, but luckily, my ole lady likes the SQ of the shorter ones!
    Last edited by pepster; 04-25-2012 at 02:43 AM.

  5. #5

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    According to the president of Wireworld, all WW power cords should be at least 2 meters long to take advantage of the additional filtering they offer.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #6
    pepster
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    I'm not so sure.
    I have made probably made 100-125 power cables, and IMHO, a 4 footer would be my ideal.
    I recently tested this theory with a 4,5, 6 and 8.5 footer on hand.
    On my system at least, the 4 footer sounded better to me.
    The shortest cable I have made was 2 foot (dangerous) and alot of 3 footers.
    JMHO.
    Absolutely nothing scientific about it, just my ears, the 4 footer was better.

    I have just been doing alot length vs. awg cable tests recently, and was hoping to get some insight from other members, as far as SQ vs Length.
    Not sure if you have ever built a 10 foot pair of IC's from scratch, but just FYI, they sound different than a 2 foot pair.

    Can you tell a difference?

    2 foot, 3, 4 5 foot?
    Last edited by pepster; 04-25-2012 at 03:58 AM.

  7. #7

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    Pep. I suggest you go to your bedroom system and try a double blind test. And post her results.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumlie View Post
    Pep. I suggest you go to your bedroom system and try a double blind test. And post her results.

    I likes da bedroom system!

    From 1 shelf up, to the next room.
    Rekon they sound different?

    The misconception being, people do NOT think they should/do sound different!
    That is my problem!

    Think these will sound as good as the 2 footers in the first pic?


  9. #9

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    I like 1.5 or 2m IC's simply because it gives me flexibility when moving gear around in my rack. I have had instances in the past where I couldnt put things where I wanted due to that.

    Plus depending on the cost of the IC's you are looking at, the last thing you want to do is drop 500 on some 1m IC's from someone like MIT and then have to get some 2m ones later on because you added more gear and cant make the 1m's work.

    As far as sounding different, well I dont have any super long cables (speaker, ic or power cables) to test against super short ones lol.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    I like 1.5 or 2m IC's simply because it gives me flexibility when moving gear around in my rack. I have had instances in the past where I couldnt put things where I wanted due to that.

    Plus depending on the cost of the IC's you are looking at, the last thing you want to do is drop 500 on some 1m IC's from someone like MIT and then have to get some 2m ones later on because you added more gear and cant make the 1m's work.

    As far as sounding different, well I dont have any super long cables (speaker, ic or power cables) to test against super short ones lol.
    That is a damn good point Dan.
    Naturally, I have thought about that in the past, but certainly, you would not expect them (except for the MIT's) to sound as good as a 2 foot pair of IC's?
    No?

  11. #11

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    For power cords, I really can't comment as I've only had 3 or 4 footers. IC's....shorter the better but like others said, you can shoot yourself in the foot when it comes time to moving gear around in the rack. As far as being audible between a 1m or 2m IC, not by my ears anyway.
    Bottom line.....don't sweat it and buy what suits your needs. If your switching gear around that often, you have other issues.

  12. #12

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    Length always matters but it always takes so long to get where you want to go in a freight boat.
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  13. #13

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    Since interconnecting cables are a necessary evil and yet another thing "in the way" of the signal, It's my opinion that shorter is always better.

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    hey pep, as far as AWG for speaker cables, do you think there's a max size for carrying an audio signal, that beyond which you wouldn't gain an improvement?

    I have plans for a 7AWG cable in the works. 7 is double 10, for those who don't know.
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    Sure length matters, but it is not the only factor. The proper equation is:
    C= ((LxG)/(∠B)) / (M/W)

    This means that the conductivity factor of the cable is derived from:
    length times girth over the sharpness of the cable's bend (when put into use) divided by mass over width.

  16. #16

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    Personally I like mine to be just as long as needed. A friend has made some cables for me out of good Belden cable with Canare ends in 3' and the same in 18" using both i could tell no difference. On the other hand you also must consider the device you are hooking up. For instance this same friend went from TV to projector and his DVD player would not push a signal through a 50' component cable and at 25' it was bad at best but at 9' worked just fine. In the end he made extra long audio cables and made a stand for the DVD player to be closer to the projector. All cables were quality cables from Madisound. When he built his new theater room this was a lessen he kept in mind for the gear tower.

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    Mighty fine looking cables. Maybe it's just me, but I like the black ones better. Someday I'll try them out; hopefully not too stiff in my system.


    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Last edited by maximillian; 04-25-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  18. #18

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    Length and width (gauge) both matter because as you increase gauge and length, you increase resistance and that change in resistance affects your signal transfer. It doesn't "filter" anything, it just reduces strength and that cuts the strength of all signals in the path, not just the noise.

    In power cables, extra length helps with heat during peak draw because there is more material available to absorb heat. Therefore it takes longer for the power cord to heat up to an unsafe point.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!

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    Most DAC makers want you to use the shortest USB cable you can.
    As far as other cables go, my rule is always shorter is better.
    Longer power cables are better for heat? No, shorter and bigger gauge is better.
    Lower resistance means less power is turned to heat in the cable and more of it is
    delivered to the device.
    Last edited by sucks2beme; 04-25-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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  20. #20

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    So far, all we are getting is opinion. Here is one more.

    The length, along with other characteristics, will affect the signal. Depending upon the gear at either end of the cable, there may, or may not be, an effect. It would seem to be possible that in some situations a longer cable could be 'better' than a shorter cable. Other situations could be reversed.

  21. #21

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    In the real world, shorter is always better. Electronics 101.
    Digital cables- shorter = better.
    If your are using an analog cable to change the sound with it's impedance
    whole other story. That where all the arguments start.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by sucks2beme View Post
    Digital cables- shorter = better.
    Hmm... I have heard some differing opinions about that. See quote below:

    Anything else in a digital cable I would recommend going with a 1.5m length.
    It eliminates digital reflections caused by timing issues.
    You can tell a difference.
    Matter of fact, the person who stated this quote has posted in this thread.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by sucks2beme View Post
    In the real world, shorter is always better. Electronics 101.
    Digital cables- shorter = better.
    If your are using an analog cable to change the sound with it's impedance
    whole other story. That where all the arguments start.
    EXACTLY. The truth of the matter (not opinion) is any cable between 2 pieces of equipment is a deficit; so logic would dictate that shorter is always better. Now, if you're attempting to "manipulate" the original signal....there ya go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    Hmm... I have heard some differing opinions about that. See quote below:
    Matter of fact, the person who stated this quote has posted in this thread.
    This depends on the receiver/sender interface quality of the equipment, and it's adherence to the 75ohm standard--and is still VERY debatable. You'll hear arguments on both sides on this topic.

    Some "experts" claim that your speaker cables should be at least 8 feet in length as well---I think they just need different speakers. Hi-fi is all about eliminating weak links, cables are weak links, regardless of quality, topolgy, and/or length.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 04-25-2012 at 01:53 PM.

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    Whats the length of a wire coat hanger after you've undone it and made it straight? About 2 feet or so? Sometimes they break when undoing them at the top, so, whatever length my coathangers are...

  26. #26

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    plastic or metal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    plastic or metal?
    Metal, with a plastic coating for shielding of course!!

  28. #28

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    I do feel that length matters. If the cable is too SHORT to connect my equipment together...it seems like I can't hear any sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    So far, all we are getting is opinion. Here is one more.

    The length, along with other characteristics, will affect the signal. Depending upon the gear at either end of the cable, there may, or may not be, an effect. It would seem to be possible that in some situations a longer cable could be 'better' than a shorter cable. Other situations could be reversed.
    ???

    Opinion?

    Man, you're daft!

    Physics dictates that length and gauge matter. It can be proven with actual math. It's not opinion. It is actual, proven, scientific fact.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Length and width (gauge) both matter because as you increase gauge and length, you increase resistance and that change in resistance affects your signal transfer. It doesn't "filter" anything, it just reduces strength and that cuts the strength of all signals in the path, not just the noise.

    In power cables, extra length helps with heat during peak draw because there is more material available to absorb heat. Therefore it takes longer for the power cord to heat up to an unsafe point.
    Increasing gauge size actually reduces resistance when compared to cables of same length. The added material flows easier. I guess the longer power cord would take longer to heat up, but a larger/shorter cord with less resistance, eliminates the heat too.

    Did I misunderstand your take, John and you actually want us to use very small, very long power cords? I think you have it backwards.
    Last edited by Dennis Gardner; 04-25-2012 at 09:46 PM.

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