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  1. #1

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    Default Am I splitting hairs on these subs?

    I keep going back and forth on switching out my Treo for a TC Sounds 12" sub. I am not sure though if I am splitting hairs on them though. Below are the WinISD graphs for each sub. The Treo is in gray and the TC is in green.

    The TC has a MUCH flatter frequency response than the Treo, but not a ton more SPL, despite the 500 watt difference in the power handling of these subs.

    I am better just keeping what I have now, or is the TC worth the upgrade?

    Click on the Photo so you can zoom in...
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    Last edited by EndersShadow; 04-26-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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    IMO, the most important factor is how they sound. Is there any way for you to hear them both and make your choice based on that?

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    You realize the required vent length for the TC is nearly 30'?

    Have you measured the in room response of the Treo? Do you have any sort of DSP or EQ for your sub?

    Is this for 2 channel or HT?
    Last edited by Face; 04-26-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Is this for 2 channel or HT?
    It's for his car.


    Enders - Have you looked at anything from RE Audio or Mach 5? I have a RE Audio SR 12" sealed because while ported @ 35hz, it was too much for me. All I could ever want while feeding it 450~ RMS.

    What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Just go slightly bigger? Hell cost alone is a bit much when comparing all brands listed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ern Dog View Post
    IMO, the most important factor is how they sound. Is there any way for you to hear them both and make your choice based on that?
    Not really. I own the Treo right now but am debating selling it for the TC sounds. Since its going from a 10" to a 12" sub I cant re-use the box to test them either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    Enders - Have you looked at anything from RE Audio or Mach 5? I have a RE Audio SR 12" sealed because while ported @ 35hz, it was too much for me. All I could ever want while feeding it 450~ RMS.
    I have not. I am feeding my Treo 500 watts right now and it sounds decent, but it sounds MUCH better with one of the seats down in my Jetta.

    I am hoping that with the extra weight the TC sounds sub would bring I would be able to get that same sound but with the seat up. I also am looking to utilize my amp better. It can do 750 watts @ 2 ohms and 1400 watts @ 1 ohm. I know the TC can only handle 1000 normally but I think that sub is perfect for the amp I have now (Sundown 1200D)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Just go slightly bigger? Hell cost alone is a bit much when comparing all brands listed.
    Go a bit bigger, fully ultize the power availible with my amp, and more importantly get a better overall frequency response, and SOUND. My cars HU is pretty limited with regards to EQ abilities.

    I found a the 12" TC used for 200 so I also would be getting a decent deal on it IMHO.

    Long term, I am looking at getting a sub I can use in a bigger car (like a VW Tiguan) when my Jetta retires. So I am kinda trying to get a nice big sub that can move with me. A 15" is just a bit too big and a 10" can only do so much without adding another one...
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    I take it you're going to need a new box with a slot port unless you have room for a 5x30 port.

    Regardless, with cabin gain, you're going to have too much low end.
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    It's too bad you weren't closer, I have the perfect slot ported box for you.

    Anyways, as Face said, you will have lots of low end with cabin gain. You should try a sealed 12 and see how you like it. But I have a feeling your the bass head who wont like that sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    I take it you're going to need a new box with a slot port unless you have room for a 5x30 port.

    Regardless, with cabin gain, you're going to have too much low end.
    Yeah, the current box is rhino lined on the outside and built for a 10 so its not gonna work

    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    It's too bad you weren't closer, I have the perfect slot ported box for you.

    Anyways, as Face said, you will have lots of low end with cabin gain. You should try a sealed 12 and see how you like it. But I have a feeling your the bass head who wont like that sound.
    I looked at the sealed graph (will post later tonight) and I just didnt see me being happy with it given its SPL (which isnt everything I realize).

    I am a bit of a basshead BUT I also like decent quality sound, I just want to up the bass in it without making it boomy or hang longer than needed. I realize a sealed box is the best bet for good attack and decay, but its also at the expense of SPL.

    As stated my current sub just lacks that visceral punch to my gut I like to sometimes get with the seats up (VW seats are ridiculously thick and well made) and I know it doesnt have as flat of a SPL as the TC does on paper with those specs......
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    I am a bit of a basshead BUT I also like decent quality sound, I just want to up the bass in it without making it boomy or hang longer than needed. I realize a sealed box is the best bet for good attack and decay, but its also at the expense of SPL.
    How many sealed setup's have you heard? Unless you want to show off, I think you'd be surprised what you can get from a properly built sealed enclosure with cabin gain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    How many sealed setup's have you heard? Unless you want to show off, I think you'd be surprised what you can get from a properly built sealed enclosure with cabin gain.
    Its been a bit since I heard one last (used to have a 10" MTX ThunderElite 6000 and a 15" of the same series in sealed boxes, both driven by a 5 channel PPI amp....

    I am not against a sealed box, its just on paper it looks much worse than it probably is. I could also always go with a passive in the box too, but that gets too tricky for my limited skills.
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    Big fan of TC sounds subs. Got 2 LMS 12's myself.
    Last edited by leroyjr1; 04-26-2012 at 05:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    Big fan of TC sounds subs. Got 2 LMS 12's myself.
    Using them in your HT if I remember correctly......

    I really like the TC spec's and the RMS handling. I will post a sealed v. ported graph tonight when I get home. Its just impossible obviously to see what cabin gain would add to it without building the box and buying the sub first lol......
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    You're thinking about it too much.

    I'd get that TC Sounds 12" for $200 and sell it if you're not happy. I doubt you'll be disappointed. I think you'll need more fire power if you want to match the bass output with the seat up. Are you running a single 10?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You're thinking about it too much.

    I'd get that TC Sounds 12" for $200 and sell it if you're not happy. I doubt you'll be disappointed. I think you'll need more fire power if you want to match the bass output with the seat up. Are you running a single 10?
    Right now its just the single 10 in a ported box with 500 watts (amp can give 750, sub cant take that much ).

    TC would be getting 1000 all day long and could actually get as much as 1500 (what the amp was bench tested at the manufacture for, but its not published anywhere) @ 1 ohm. The amp is a beast
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    You would probably need 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You would probably need 2.
    2 in a ported box, or 2 in a sealed box??
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    You could get away with a smaller box if you chose sealed. I haven't heard the lms drivers in a ported box yet but reguardless they rock. Are you buying used from that guy on AVS down by you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You could get away with a smaller box if you chose sealed. I haven't heard the lms drivers in a ported box yet but reguardless they rock. Are you buying used from that guy on AVS down by you?
    That was the hope. He had 3 left of his 4 last I checked....

    Here is the Treo ported v. LMS-R ported v. LMS-R sealed.

    Attachment 69739
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 04-26-2012 at 09:03 PM.
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    Which color is the sealed TC sounds? On my iPhone can really see.

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    Purple.... the one that seems the most linear .

    Now you can see why the Ported TC (Green) seems to be more attractive..... but I cant account for cabin gain in anyway with this program...
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    If it was me and I was only going with one 12 I think I would choose the ported version. It'll give you the most spl with less wattage. You could also take it from the car to the house and continue rock'n out.

    Have you watched any YouTube videos of the lms drivers?
    Last edited by leroyjr1; 04-26-2012 at 09:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    Have you watched any YouTube videos of the lms drivers?
    Just found this one.....gives me a couple ideas.............

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxhRbF9kGow

    Not sure I want to tune it to 35 hz though, thats a bit much even for me.....


    Though Drenis I believe this is a sealed box.....
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 04-26-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    How many sealed setup's have you heard? Unless you want to show off, I think you'd be surprised what you can get from a properly built sealed enclosure with cabin gain.
    +1. I have a Alpine 12" Type-R sub in a sealed 1cuft box in my CR-V, and I am very happy with it. My ears hit their limits long before the sub does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefJerky View Post
    +1. I have a Alpine 12" Type-R sub in a sealed 1cuft box in my CR-V, and I am very happy with it. My ears hit their limits long before the sub does.
    True, but keep in mind your CR-V has a open ended trunk, I dont in my Jetta. That makes a pretty big difference IMHO.....
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    Well this seems to be a moot point now as the used TC sounds I was looking at are now all gone .....

    Oh well.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    True, but keep in mind your CR-V has a open ended trunk, I dont in my Jetta. That makes a pretty big difference IMHO.....
    More cabin to fill.

    Sedans, coupes, hatches... they all have there weaknesses.

    Put it to you this way, my single 12" SR series (RE Audio - not to confuse with the Polk line) sub in it's 35hz slot ported box (Honestly I think the box was built for a 45~hz tune though) with 450w RMS was enough to make my rear view mirror move, my wipers vibrate. It was MORE than enough. There was so much cabin gain... it became annoying and hurt my ears from the pressure it made.

    Recently just glassed a sealed corner enclosure in my girlfriends car using a new setup consisting of an Orion XTR 12" and a XTR2502 amp. Plenty of clean bass being in a hatch car especially.

    I really think a nice sealed 12 will do very well in your Jetta bud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    More cabin to fill.

    Sedans, coupes, hatches... they all have there weaknesses.

    Put it to you this way, my single 12" SR series (RE Audio - not to confuse with the Polk line) sub in it's 35hz slot ported box (Honestly I think the box was built for a 45~hz tune though) with 450w RMS was enough to make my rear view mirror move, my wipers vibrate. It was MORE than enough. There was so much cabin gain... it became annoying and hurt my ears from the pressure it made.

    Recently just glassed a sealed corner enclosure in my girlfriends car using a new setup consisting of an Orion XTR 12" and a XTR2502 amp. Plenty of clean bass being in a hatch car especially.

    I really think a nice sealed 12 will do very well in your Jetta bud.
    Unfortunately with my budget probably not going to happen.... Still working hard to make sure that the SR's and new headunit I want are going to fit into the budget.......

    I can get by with the Treo for now......
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