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  1. #1

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    Default Speaker Throwdown: Modded LSi9 vs Paradigm Stuio 60 V5 (w/pics)

    In the process of building a new home, and got the green light from the wifey to go on a little audio/video binge for the dedicated media room that we're having the builder put in.

    Received my 'fortress edition' modded crossovers from Trey (VR3) about a week ago, and picked up a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's for a good price yesterday. My initial thoughts are to put the Studios in the media room and keep the LSi's in the living-room.

    This is somewhat of a preliminary comparison, as the crossovers in the LSi9's aren't fully broken in yet, and I don't think the electronics and cables I'm current running (which after swapping components in and out, have a great synergy with the LSi's...at least to my ears) have an ideal synergy with the studios.

    First the obvious: The Studios extend lower, and have much more authority in the mid-bass region than the LSi9's The studio 60's have a suprisingly good amount of musical bass....very punchy and nuanced. I don't find myself missing my VTF-3, which has been packed away for 3 months now, when I listen to music on the studios. My complaint with the LSi9's has always been that they try to extend lower than they should, and can sound a little sloppy as they approach the lower bass frequencies. This has been less of an issue after the cross-over mod, as the clarity in the highs in the modded LSi9's seem to mask the bass frequencies a bit. I do find myself missing my sub while running them, as these really do sound better cross-over higher and paired with a good sub. I'm hoping that as the cross-overs break-in, that the bass frequencies in the LSi9's will improve. (the mid-range in the modded LSi9's has improved signifcantly over the past week).

    The Studios have a great deal of clarity across the board and really will bring life to the subtlest of details in a recording. They're very dynamic, clean sounding speakers. They're definitely bright to my ears, but not at all harsh. They're the first 'bright' speaker that I do't hate musically. Soundstage is very wide, holographic, and fills the entire space of my large living-room better than the LSi's do.

    That said, musically I prefer the modded LSi9's over the studios. Where the Studios do a tremendous job of filling the room with clean, dynamic sound, they aren't nearly as engaging as the modded LSi9's, which really pull you into a recording. From a technical standpoint the studios are great musically, but I find myself 'disconnected' from the recording while listening to them. The studios are a 'livelier' more energetic speaker, but they lack the organic warmth of the LSi's mid-range that give vocals and instruments a truer to life presentation. The Studio's are livelier, but the LSi's are more organic and lifelike.

    I've auditioned the Studio's (60's, 100's, and 20's) more often than any other speaker, so none of this really surprised me. Since these are going in a dedicated theater room, my motivation for purchasing these is more for home theater dynamics, but I found that I couldn't flat-out ignore musical performance when purchasing speakers. For home theater use the Studio's work well, though I don't think they're much better than the RTi-A's (I owned the RTi8's at one point). My first choice from a purely home theater use standpoint are the def-tech BP8080....but these are significantly more expensive, and failed the WAF test. Plus I found the def-tech's underwhelming for music (had a chance to audition the BP8060).

    To me the studio's are a jack of all trades, master of none kind of speaker. They're great (not spectacular) musical speakers, and great (not the best) theater speakers? I'd say this is more of a compliment than a criticism, as its rare to find a speaker that's great for both music and home theater. That said, they're certainly not worth the MSRP if you're looking for something that specifically excels in music or home theater. They're not the be all and end all of home theater or musical speakers that they're often made out to be, but they are a very good compromise of both uses, with a very nice aesthetic appeal.






    I noticed after I took this pic that I accidentally swapped the left and right LSi speakers. I don't normally listen to them like this....it only happened after I took them down to photograph them the other day.







    Last edited by mystik610; 05-18-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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  2. #2

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    That is a sweet setup. I love the Studio 20's myself for 2 channel (though Maggies will be what I get and stick with).

    Sexy looking pics!

    I have to inquire where you got that entertainment center. My wife would totally go for something like that in our place. That and the ebony LSis match the finish on it quite nicely.
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  3. #3

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    Nice review!
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills, polyswitches removed, Lg Solen inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR binding posts, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheets (3" strips) installed on back wall behind MW's & Tweeters, interior of cabinets sealed, AI-1 interface with 1000VA transformer

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    That is a sweet setup. I love the Studio 20's myself for 2 channel (though Maggies will be what I get and stick with).

    Sexy looking pics!

    I have to inquire where you got that entertainment center. My wife would totally go for something like that in our place. That and the ebony LSis match the finish on it quite nicely.
    We got it from the Ashley furniture store a couple of years back. It as long as I get my choice of electronics I'm happy!
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  5. #5

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    Nice!!

    You need stands -

    Also did you swap the bottom and top midbass driver on the LSi9?
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    Why would you swap the bottom and top drivers around?

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    Made a pretty big difference for me -

    My reasoning was the bottom driver produces more bass and the top driver produces the mids - when you put it on a stand that makes the midbass driver above your ears and the bass drivers at your ears... the result for me was a far cleaner midrange and it remedied that awful bass hump the speakers presented.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post

    I'd say this is more of a compliment than a criticism, as its rare to find a speaker that's great for both music and home theater.



    Thanks for sharing and congrats on your Xover upgrades, I saw your photos on AVS forum, pretty stinking awesome!!!

    As far as your quote in my reply here, I know some will disagree with me, but I've found the RTiA9's to deliver the goods in both areas quite well.

    I've been told the A9's are remarkable HT speakers, but I've been really pleased with them musically, sure, I'd love to get my ears on some LSiM's, but for now, I'll just rock on baby!
    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too


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  9. #9

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    I've always liked the Paradigm sound. If I wasn't so heavily invested into Polk I would go Paradigm Reference.
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  10. #10

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    I don't think you've had enough time with the Paradigm's. I know you've auditioned them and all but you need time to really "date" the speaker and form some real opinions about them. I bet you end up liking the Paradigm's far better in a month.

    But what the hell do I know!!!

    Btw, pretty sharp photography. Not a big fan of the Dutch angles, but they're working for these shots :)

  11. #11

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    Nice review there chief. along with some pretty cool pics. I have to agree with the above, maybe some more time is needed with the Paradigms to fully evalute. Good looking setup you have too, congrats.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by audiocr381ve View Post
    I don't think you've had enough time with the Paradigm's. I know you've auditioned them and all but you need time to really "date" the speaker and form some real opinions about them. I bet you end up liking the Paradigm's far better in a month.

    But what the hell do I know!!!
    I don't think you've ever kept a pair of speakers for at least a week, bud Just busting your chops for a little fun
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  13. #13

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    We carry Paradigm and I tried very hard to enjoy them. Yes they make some good speakers for certain things like their outdoors and some of their in wall in ceiling models do a good job but the Studio line is so overpriced and don't hold a candle to others in their price classes. We took on Totem and Totem really made Paradigm look bad. It was a group agreement that Paradigm had nothing at any price to compete with the totem series speakers.

    Studio 20's did however sound better then a stock pair of LSi9's we had at the shop. I was a little surprised when the Lsi9's came up short in a few areas. They constantly sounded a bit on the cheaper lesser quality side of things vs the Studio 20's which I felt was a good match to demo against them. The Totem models destroyed both badly and this was also a group agreement.

    Nice Thread as I would love to hear a modded pair of Lsi9's. If any model in the Lsi line needs help , it's the 9's as I owned them and hated them. Hate is a strong word but they always felt unbalanced and bloated bass notes and clouded up the mid range. It was like the crossover was a after thought.

    I also would love to hear a fully modded pair of Lsi15 with he better woofer and crossover network. I'm sure they are a huge improvement over stock as well.
    Dan
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    I also would love to hear a fully modded pair of Lsi15 with he better woofer and crossover network. I'm sure they are a huge improvement over stock as well.
    If I ever get my 15s crossovers done your welcome to stop by and listen to em
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    We carry Paradigm and I tried very hard to enjoy them. Yes they make some good speakers for certain things like their outdoors and some of their in wall in ceiling models do a good job but the Studio line is so overpriced and don't hold a candle to others in their price classes. We took on Totem and Totem really made Paradigm look bad. It was a group agreement that Paradigm had nothing at any price to compete with the totem series speakers.

    Studio 20's did however sound better then a stock pair of LSi9's we had at the shop. I was a little surprised when the Lsi9's came up short in a few areas. They constantly sounded a bit on the cheaper lesser quality side of things vs the Studio 20's which I felt was a good match to demo against them. The Totem models destroyed both badly and this was also a group agreement.

    Nice Thread as I would love to hear a modded pair of Lsi9's. If any model in the Lsi line needs help , it's the 9's as I owned them and hated them. Hate is a strong word but they always felt unbalanced and bloated bass notes and clouded up the mid range. It was like the crossover was a after thought.

    I also would love to hear a fully modded pair of Lsi15 with he better woofer and crossover network. I'm sure they are a huge improvement over stock as well.
    If I were in the market for a purely musical speaker, the Totem Hawks would be at the top of my list (B&W CM9 closely behind). Very robust musical soundstage and ridiculously good imaging that plays tricks on your mind as you look at the diminutive stature of them. I've never heard a speaker disappear like the Hawks.

    The mid-bass bloat of the LSi9's is all but gone after the cross-over mod. The timbre of the speakers changed, and the soundstage is dominated by the clarity and the highs in the mid-range. Flipping the mid-bass drivers as VR3 suggests really does help the imaging in the mid-range and top-end, but it made the mid-bass/bass sound rather anemic in my room.

    I've spent the past couple of hours getting acquainted with the Studios, and have become a believer. Very lively, yet smooth and nuanced sound. I love how these things can bring out details in the highs and upper mid-range with such finesse. These things reveal subtle details in the highs like the lingering steely vibrations of a guitar's strings. (I can actually tell the difference between the quality of the strings of different guitars while listening to the studios). They seem to do particularly good job handling more 'energetic' genre's of music. I was playing one of BT's (trance dj) albums and found myself mesmerized by the micro-dynamics of all the layers that make up the recording. The dynamics of the studios make them great party speakers, IMO.

    That said, I still prefer my modded LSi9's. The LSi9's don't have the dynamics of the studios, but I prefer the organic timbre of the LSi's. The LSi9 is a much involved listening experience. Details aren't as readily transparent than the studios, but when you listen more intently, you find that the LSi's are peeling back even deeper into the layers of detail than the studios.

    This isn't a diss to the Studio at all....I actually love the studios, but musically, I prefer the LSi's. It's all probably very subjective too. I'd imagine that someone who wants a brighter, more dynamic sound for music, would prefer the Studios.

    All of that said, the Studios are a far better home theater speaker than the LSi's. Even after the cross-over upgrade, the LSi's lack the dynamics to give the impact that we all crave in a home theater soundtrack. The LSi's are the kind of speaker that don't ever sound 'loud'....as you crank up the volume with these things, they grow more detailed, not louder. There are times when my wife and I are watching something with the LSi's, and we don't realize how loud we've turned them up until we realize we can't hear each other speaking. This is great for music, but when it comes to high impact home theater, you want them to sound loud and impactful. And that's where the studios straight up stomp the LSi's.

    The studios have great dynamic range, and voice home theater effects with the intended amount of energy. What makes them particularly good as a home theater speaker, however, is their ability to voice both music and home theater effects with authority. There's more to a movie soundtrack than the explosions, bleeps, and *whooshes* we tend to look for when testing a speaker's home theater capabilities. Once I simply let a movie play through, I really started to appreciate how good of a home theater speaker these things are. The studios passed the home theater sound effects test with flying colors, but they also handled the musical track, vocals, and ambient effects equally as well, and with great finesse. All of the different pieces of a movie soundtrack comes together very cohesively creating a very immersive audio experience.
    Last edited by mystik610; 05-20-2012 at 02:58 AM.
    My System Showcase!

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    Paradigm MilleniaOne - Rythmik F12GSE - Onkyo TX-SR805 - Adcom 5400

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  16. #16

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    Mystic: I appreciate the effort you went to in providing this write up for all to read. I have to ask based upon the photos, is that the listening position for the speakers? If so, neither set is being given the opportunity to sound their best.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMara View Post
    I don't think you've ever kept a pair of speakers for at least a week, bud Just busting your chops for a little fun
    Be original, that's H9's sorry excuse for an insult! Going on 2 years with the 2B's ;)

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by VR3 View Post
    Nice!!

    You need stands -

    Also did you swap the bottom and top midbass driver on the LSi9?
    Do you mean to tell me that this "tweak" was "not" included in the "mods"? Seems a bit of an oversight, no?

    To OP, nice review, I'm not surprised.

    To Dan (what Totems are we talking about that took both of those speakers to school? I've heard the Rainmakers and they are a good speaker, but IMHO you hype those more than necessary-they are not that much better than my 7s, some but not night and day--only a little more clarity but the 7s are more laid back and appealing, at least to me. I was NOT blown away by those. Found them only moderately better than a set of LSi-7s IMHO).

    Sorry if I'm being contrarian but I just don't hear it, and I know that Dan and I hear different things because he likes the high end more than I do and I prefer "warmth". Pretty subjective in the end. I admit. But I've found almost every speaker Dan has "liked" to be a little sharp for me, up top. And integrateds he likes to sound thin and revealing up top (lots of info but not necessarily musically "calming", I'd say Dan likes it a bit "frenetic" up there. Likes a lot of action from his tweeters. lol Where as I am a bit more sedate and gentlemanly about the musical "highs").

    I do believe we have a very serious "subjective" difference about what a musical speaker should sound like. I've also noticed that a lot of younger guys here love those etchy highs. Is it just age and the fact that most of us grew up with LPs, some tubes, and old Silver Face equipment--all of which were ever so "mellow"? And the younger guys just like those razor like high end DACs? lol


    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 05-20-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Do you mean to tell me that this "tweak" was "not" included in the "modes"? Seems a bit of an oversight, no?

    To OP, nice review, I'm not surprised.

    To Dan (what Totems are we talking about that took both of those speakers to school? I've heard the Rainmakers and they are a good speaker, but IMHO you hype those more than necessary-they are not that much better than my 7s, some but not night and day--only a little more clarity but the 7s are more laid back and appealing, at least to me. I was NOT blown away by those. Found them only moderately better than a set of LSi-7s IMHO).

    Sorry if I'm being contrarian but I just don't hear it, and I know that Dan and I hear different things because he likes the high end more than I do and I prefer "warmth". Pretty subjective in the end. I admit. But I've found almost every speaker Dan has "liked" to be a little sharp for me, up top. And integrateds he likes to sound thin and revealing up top (lots of info but not necessarily musically "calming", I'd say Dan likes it a bit "frenetic" up there. Likes a lot of action from his tweeters. lol Where as I am a bit more sedate and gentlemanly about the musical "highs").

    I do believe we have a very serious "subjective" difference about what a musical speaker should sound like. I've also noticed that a lot of younger guys here love those etchy highs. Is it just age and the fact that most of us grew up with LPs, some tubes, and old Silver Face equipment--all of which were ever so "mellow"? And the younger guys just like those razor like high end DACs? lol


    cnh

    lol, passive aggressive much?

    I'm a young guy, 26, and I do NOT like the sound you describe us young guys having. One of the sweetest sounds I've ever heard was from my 2B's and a silver faced Marantz 2245. You older guys may have a lot of experience, but older does not equal wiser ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Do you mean to tell me that this "tweak" was "not" included in the "mods"? Seems a bit of an oversight, no?

    To OP, nice review, I'm not surprised.

    To Dan (what Totems are we talking about that took both of those speakers to school? I've heard the Rainmakers and they are a good speaker, but IMHO you hype those more than necessary-they are not that much better than my 7s, some but not night and day--only a little more clarity but the 7s are more laid back and appealing, at least to me. I was NOT blown away by those. Found them only moderately better than a set of LSi-7s IMHO).

    Sorry if I'm being contrarian but I just don't hear it, and I know that Dan and I hear different things because he likes the high end more than I do and I prefer "warmth". Pretty subjective in the end. I admit. But I've found almost every speaker Dan has "liked" to be a little sharp for me, up top. And integrateds he likes to sound thin and revealing up top (lots of info but not necessarily musically "calming", I'd say Dan likes it a bit "frenetic" up there. Likes a lot of action from his tweeters. lol Where as I am a bit more sedate and gentlemanly about the musical "highs").

    I do believe we have a very serious "subjective" difference about what a musical speaker should sound like. I've also noticed that a lot of younger guys here love those etchy highs. Is it just age and the fact that most of us grew up with LPs, some tubes, and old Silver Face equipment--all of which were ever so "mellow"? And the younger guys just like those razor like high end DACs? lol


    cnh
    cnh:

    Gotta respectfully disagree with you. Having owned both the LSi9's and the Rainmakers at the same time I found the Rainmakers to be the better overall speaker because of the better top to bottom coherence. Of course once the 9's x-over is modified the results are reversed.

    The style of sound output one likes is due to a combination of their musical experience and the gear they grew up with, any age can have the silver-faced experience.
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  21. #21

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    Ummm... you have to physically plug the drivers in differently when plugging them back in the enclosure...

    I will definitely let you know when I am able to reach through the internet and accomplish such a task... ;-)

    I don't physically have the speakers when I mod them...

    Anyways
    Last edited by VR3; 05-20-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Do you mean to tell me that this "tweak" was "not" included in the "mods"? Seems a bit of an oversight, no?

    To OP, nice review, I'm not surprised.

    To Dan (what Totems are we talking about that took both of those speakers to school? I've heard the Rainmakers and they are a good speaker, but IMHO you hype those more than necessary-they are not that much better than my 7s, some but not night and day--only a little more clarity but the 7s are more laid back and appealing, at least to me. I was NOT blown away by those. Found them only moderately better than a set of LSi-7s IMHO).

    Sorry if I'm being contrarian but I just don't hear it, and I know that Dan and I hear different things because he likes the high end more than I do and I prefer "warmth". Pretty subjective in the end. I admit. But I've found almost every speaker Dan has "liked" to be a little sharp for me, up top. And integrateds he likes to sound thin and revealing up top (lots of info but not necessarily musically "calming", I'd say Dan likes it a bit "frenetic" up there. Likes a lot of action from his tweeters. lol Where as I am a bit more sedate and gentlemanly about the musical "highs").

    I do believe we have a very serious "subjective" difference about what a musical speaker should sound like. I've also noticed that a lot of younger guys here love those etchy highs. Is it just age and the fact that most of us grew up with LPs, some tubes, and old Silver Face equipment--all of which were ever so "mellow"? And the younger guys just like those razor like high end DACs? lol


    cnh
    I had a pair of Stock Lsi9's on hand , someone from here had them with him when he came to my store last year. We had the Rainmakers on the floor as well as the Model 1's , Mites , Hawks , Dreamcatcher and Staff's. All which destroyed the Lsi9's and the owner of them was shocked how badly they did compared. Even the Studio 10's had their number. All speakers where driven by a Cambridge Audio Azur 651A which has 75 watts of very clean power. All speakers sound wonderful on it.
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiocr381ve View Post
    lol, passive aggressive much?

    I'm a young guy, 26, and I do NOT like the sound you describe us young guys having. One of the sweetest sounds I've ever heard was from my 2B's and a silver faced Marantz 2245. You older guys may have a lot of experience, but older does not equal wiser ;)
    Sorry if it seemed that way to you. I did try to put IN as many "qualifiers" as I could. Such as "this is subjective", "a lot of younger guys" -- which means most but not "all", so we would have room for you! I bent over backwards to say that I was of a certain age and a certain history and NOT to take what I was saying as "gospel". Plus I have a "dry sense of humor" and I'm a "satirist" by nature.

    Been here long enough to know that our ears are often "different" and that there is no crime in that. I'm actually happy to hear that some of my qualifiers were appropriate.

    To Dan, no problem, I have heard Totems more than once. And "as I say" they're good. But I was not blown away and I've heard them on NADs, tubes, and reasonably higher end pre-amps. I also consider my LSi-7s superior performers to unmodded LSi-9s because they have a more simple implementation of their two driver config.

    VR3...pulling your leg there. Nothing more. Jesssh you guys are starting to make me feel like my friend Jstas, here. Any one for a sense of humor?

    I will add one thing, that the Hawks are a tower and if one were comparing those I'd need to actually hear that, and have no qualms thinking that they might be something special!

    OK, boys. When you're on Oxycodone, and other high octane narcotic pain killers because you totally severed your Achilles tendon and you're not a spring chicken anymore (and just had it surgically reunited with its other half) but you can still almost do a one leg squat to get up and play gymnast with various pieces of furniture? Then maybe you can seem like a P.A. old dude who young dudes can go Oedipal on (isn't that what Freud would call trying to "displace" your elders, lol--Freud--yeah I had a Doctoral exam that included most of his classic works, if this addled brain remembers properly).

    Old, young! Does it really matter? I'm a pretty easy going dude, at least that's what most people tell me.


    Ganbei, boys!

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 05-20-2012 at 09:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markmarc View Post
    Mystic: I appreciate the effort you went to in providing this write up for all to read. I have to ask based upon the photos, is that the listening position for the speakers? If so, neither set is being given the opportunity to sound their best.
    The LSi9's are photographed in their listening position. I have a hyper-active two year old in the house, so stands are out of the question. It is admittedly a less than ideal placement, but I'd rather not risk these falling on him somehow.

    The studios sat further out from the console stand, a little further forward, and slightly toe'd in. I placed them next to the LSi9's mainly to stage the

    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Do you mean to tell me that this "tweak" was "not" included in the "mods"? Seems a bit of an oversight, no?

    To OP, nice review, I'm not surprised.

    To Dan (what Totems are we talking about that took both of those speakers to school? I've heard the Rainmakers and they are a good speaker, but IMHO you hype those more than necessary-they are not that much better than my 7s, some but not night and day--only a little more clarity but the 7s are more laid back and appealing, at least to me. I was NOT blown away by those. Found them only moderately better than a set of LSi-7s IMHO).

    Sorry if I'm being contrarian but I just don't hear it, and I know that Dan and I hear different things because he likes the high end more than I do and I prefer "warmth". Pretty subjective in the end. I admit. But I've found almost every speaker Dan has "liked" to be a little sharp for me, up top. And integrateds he likes to sound thin and revealing up top (lots of info but not necessarily musically "calming", I'd say Dan likes it a bit "frenetic" up there. Likes a lot of action from his tweeters. lol Where as I am a bit more sedate and gentlemanly about the musical "highs").

    I do believe we have a very serious "subjective" difference about what a musical speaker should sound like. I've also noticed that a lot of younger guys here love those etchy highs. Is it just age and the fact that most of us grew up with LPs, some tubes, and old Silver Face equipment--all of which were ever so "mellow"? And the younger guys just like those razor like high end DACs? lol


    cnh
    Swapping the mid-bass drivers is something that's done when connecting the cross-overs to the drivers....given that he doesn't physically have the drivers, I don't see how this could be considered an oversight.

    I'm a child of the 80's and 90's.....count me as a young guy who prefers a warmer and laid-back sounding speaker for music. I may not have been around to remember the LP days, but I've been a musician for most of my life.
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    To VR3. What, dismissing the LOW end of the LSi-9s, if anything would modded 9s have over modded 7s? I'm thinking "nothing" nothing at all except for that bottom presence that a good sub could fill in?

    Thanks boys, the Maotai is on me! And I know someone in Guizhou!

    cnh
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post
    The LSi9's are photographed in their listening position. I have a hyper-active two year old in the house, so stands are out of the question. It is admittedly a less than ideal placement, but I'd rather not risk these falling on him somehow.

    The studios sat further out from the console stand, a little further forward, and slightly toe'd in. I placed them next to the LSi9's mainly to stage the



    Swapping the mid-bass drivers is something that's done when connecting the cross-overs to the drivers....given that he doesn't physically have the drivers, I don't see how this could be considered an oversight.

    I'm a child of the 80's and 90's.....count me as a young guy who prefers a warmer and laid-back sounding speaker for music. I may not have been around to remember the LP days, but I've been a musician for most of my life.
    Hey, there's lots of "room" in my quote. They call it "qualifying" any absolute statement so that you're covered. You're good.

    Warm is "good"!

    And OK, on the fact the VR3 does not have the actual speakers. I believe that, and I may be mistaken (notice the "qualifier") he has done some with the boxes in the past? No?

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 05-20-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markmarc View Post
    cnh:

    Gotta respectfully disagree with you. Having owned both the LSi9's and the Rainmakers at the same time I found the Rainmakers to be the better overall speaker because of the better top to bottom coherence. Of course once the 9's x-over is modified the results are reversed.

    The style of sound output one likes is due to a combination of their musical experience and the gear they grew up with, any age can have the silver-faced experience.
    No problem. I can understand what you're saying. And if you read me closely you will see that nowhere do I say that this "warm" experience is "exclusive" to my generation. But I will say that most people who refer to "warm" often invoke LPs and tubes? Those still exist and can be experienced by "anyone" and are? Are they not?

    I'm also a member of Audiokarma and young guys are always popping up, all the time, who are investing in old Dynaco A25s, KLH and AR classics, Allisons, ADS, silver face amps, classic TTs. They prefer that sound.

    And if, I'm not mistaken, you are also in a teaching profession? No? Every few classes, isn't there always someone, a young man, who has a chip on his shoulder, and you have to be very "gentle" with him because you don't want to alienate him, since it is your job to teach, to help, and to listen. To put the young at ease so that they don't feel that you are "only" trying to dominate them because, yes, you do have all this wealth of experience and learning and all those degrees. And you must, like Hemann Hesse's Magister Ludi, descend to the level of your student to the point of drowning in order to have an effect, sometimes.

    Please "read" more carefully, guys!

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 05-20-2012 at 10:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Hey, there's lots of "room" in my quote. They call it "qualifying" any absolute statement so that you're covered. You're good.

    Warm is "good"!

    And OK, on the fact the VR3 does not have the actual speakers. I believe that, and I may be mistaken (notice the "qualifier") he has done some with the boxes in the past? No?

    cnh
    I did realize something while auditioning the studios this weekend that might have a lot to do with your assertation that most young folks enjoy a 'brighter' speaker.....Modern popular music, which tend to be high energy 'hot' recordings with a lot of synthesized tracks, sound pretty damn awesome on the studios. I suspect that anyone who is a fan of modern music (ie young people), would prefer a 'brighter'/dynamic speaker like the studios.

    I enjoy modern rock, hip hop/rap, electronica, and all the sub-genre's that fall within these categories just as much as I enjoy jazz, classical, and what I consider 'old school' rock (stuff my dad turned me onto). I appreciate them in different ways and have never been one to listen to modern music critically, but I think the studios may change that. The studios can't touch the LSi9's when it comes to voicing instruments and vocals, but the energy and dynamics of the studios make them great for modern music. Electronica doesn't usually get a lot of love in the 'audiophile community', but its hard to listen to this in a HiFi system and not have your mind blown (at least from a technical perspective):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj3qXnQ24Hw
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    That makes a lot of sense. I also listen to some of that on occasion and though I use "tubes" I also defer to what some people consider brighter speakers, some old '80s Titanium tweeter (pure) JBL towers (IMHO, some of the best speakers they ever made for the home). Ed S. (at Polk Fest 2010) had a lot of tracks like that that featured some interesting dynamics and spatial effects mids to highs that really highlighted some of the new LSI-Ms capabilities while other tracks showed other abilities. Although the LSI-M towers are not what I would call very warm, they are not devoid of warmth, and are in many ways one of the most "interesting" compromises between the two sounds, if we may call them that (there are probably a lot more).

    Didn't mean to take up so much of this thread, as your review was spot on!

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 05-21-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post
    I did realize something while auditioning the studios this weekend that might have a lot to do with your assertation that most young folks enjoy a 'brighter' speaker.....Modern popular music, which tend to be high energy 'hot' recordings with a lot of synthesized tracks, sound pretty damn awesome on the studios. I suspect that anyone who is a fan of modern music (ie young people), would prefer a 'brighter'/dynamic speaker like the studios.

    I enjoy modern rock, hip hop/rap, electronica, and all the sub-genre's that fall within these categories just as much as I enjoy jazz, classical, and what I consider 'old school' rock (stuff my dad turned me onto). I appreciate them in different ways and have never been one to listen to modern music critically, but I think the studios may change that. The studios can't touch the LSi9's when it comes to voicing instruments and vocals, but the energy and dynamics of the studios make them great for modern music. Electronica doesn't usually get a lot of love in the 'audiophile community', but its hard to listen to this in a HiFi system and not have your mind blown (at least from a technical perspective):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj3qXnQ24Hw
    I'm not a big fan of electronica myself, but I don't hate it. That said, I do not like "hot" music such as that on bright speakers; it feels like nails on a chalkboard. However, playing them through something a bit warmer like my LSi's can be quite enjoyable.

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